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  #1681  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:14 PM
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Have there ever been any instances in which a royal court has "officially" acknowledged someone as a boyfriend or girlfriend?

Does that mean they are only "official" when they become engaged to their royal counterpart? Even though half the world knows they have been dating?

Color me confused.
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  #1682  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:31 PM
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That's just like it is, Royal Newbie. Girlfriends/ Boyfriends don't usually get acknowledged because they don't have any impact on anything considering the royal family / court. They're just people who hang out with the private person the royal is also. Because no-one is "official" 24/7. Those girlfriends / boyfriends are just not "employees of the company" or "stockholders of the company". So, no harm or changes done for the "company" and therefore they're not official even though everyone knows one of the "employees of the company" is hanging around with him / her. They exist but they're not important for the "company". So they're not interesting for the "company" in any way.

At least, that's how I see it.
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Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #1683  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:50 PM
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Honestly I think we are looking for an explanation to a question that doesn't make sense. Does my sentence not make sense? No, it doesn't.

And I am sorry but this official girlfriend/public girlfriend theory (that seems to have come out of thin air) makes the same amount of sense.

IMO you don't need the court to recognize and/or acknowledge that Sofia and Carl Phillip are boyfriend and girlfriend. They are living together. If they were just roommates, you can bet your life that the Swedish Court would announce that they were roommates to quash any type of speculation about the true nature of the relationship.

The "official" thing that you are talking about has been used in the pass for Albert and Charles when they announced that Charlene and/or Camilla would be attending semi official engagements with them. That's the only context that "official girlfriend" has been used in the past to my knowledge. The fact that the Court takes the time to make comments about Sofia at all, shows at least to me that she is his girlfriend. If she was a private person, why wouldn't the court say something along the lines...Sofia is a private person, and as such should b accorded all the privacy that most Swedes enjoy? Instead they defend her past, and answer questions on rumors on why she doesn't attend a wedding. Who does that? That's opening a can of worms that you can't put back in the can.

You can talk about the private Carl Phillip and the royal Carl Phillip, but any way you look at it.....Sofia was/is his girlfriend. I find it a bit strange that for months now some have been arguing for his right to date her despite her past but when people want to put a "title" on what she is. We have this new theory. And really, didn't the some of the same people deny that Daniel was Victoria's boyfriend? What does it take for you guys to acknowledge a relationship? So all the years that Emma dated Carl and hung out with the family in public and private, she wasn't officially the girlfriend?

And call me crazy, I don't think there is anything insulting about being called someone's girlfriend.

Makes no sense.
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  #1684  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
I'm a Swede and I think he's lazy and that if he doen't want to do the job, he should resign (for example marry without getting a permission).
Well unless you were voted to represent all of Sweden your opinion only counts as one person. And seriously! Marrying without permission! You people are freakin insane; they are dating, having fun, living together etc. There is no freakin indication that they are getting married. And I'm sure CP knows the rules better than anyone on this board so when he does get married he will follow them. The mere idea that someone should resign their job because "I don't like their girlfriend" is crazy and selfish. I trust the people in charge no what they are doing and I have not heard that CPs family have a problem with Sofia.
As for CP rushing to marry because he is 33, again Prince Albert got married at 53 and he actually needed to get married for succession reasons.
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  #1685  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:19 PM
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Xenia you made the point of saying that a lot of people voicing disapproval for Carl Phillip and Sofia were not Swedish. So Meraude (who is Swedish) gave you his opinion. Nor did he say that he spoke for the country of Sweden. Isnt' that what you meant?

Furthermore, if I am correct Carl Phillip just can't marry Sofia, Betty Sue or anyone without the permission of his father, who is the King of Sweden. I also thinks he needs the approval of Parliament. That is what Meraude meant as well.

ETA: I don' t know how it is in Sweden but WA needed Parliament's approval to marry Maxima in the Netherlands. His brother didn't get the approval (the couple also lied to Parliament but thats another story), and as a result lost his position in the line of succession and is no longer a member of the Royal House. So for some royals...... approval is essential to maintaining your place in succession, your title, and the money that is allocated to you via the government.
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  #1686  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Newbie
Have there ever been any instances in which a royal court has "officially" acknowledged someone as a boyfriend or girlfriend?

Does that mean they are only "official" when they become engaged to their royal counterpart? Even though half the world knows they have been dating?

Color me confused.
I believe Zonk's post, #1683, answers your question.

I'm sorry but if the SRF court is releasing statements about Sofia then it's definitely official. It can't get more official than that.

Do we need the court to state that Madeleine and Chris are officially dating? This notion is quite silly.
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  #1687  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:32 PM
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And now I am making another point, she/he does not represent all of Sweden. Nobody knows what the Swedish people think unless there has been a national poll. There are people on here who don't like Kate, Charlene, Daniel etc. Kate's lazy, Charlene's a gold digger, and how dare the Crown Princess of Sweden marry her personal trainer. It's ridiculous how people everywhere thinks there opinion matters most especially in this situation.
And let me point out, yet again, that CP in his position knows the rules; he knows how and what he must do to marry; more than anyone on this board. What indication is there that he is in a rush to the alter? Because he is in love and living in son with his "hott" girlfriend? And nobody on this board knows if the King or Parliament will consent or deny them getting married. Yet even if both the King and Parliament agreed; there are still people on here who insist he still shouldnt do it because of how the public perceives her. Screw the people who are actually involved in the situation and know Sofia; the public who has 0 insight except for pictures must know best.
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  #1688  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi
And now I am making another point, she/he does not represent all of Sweden. Nobody knows what the Swedish people think unless there has been a national poll. There are people on here who don't like Kate, Charlene, Daniel etc. Kate's lazy, Charlene's a gold digger, and how dare the Crown Princess of Sweden marry her personal trainer. It's ridiculous how people everywhere thinks there opinion matters most especially in this situation.
And let me point out, yet again, that CP in his position knows the rules; he knows how and what he must do to marry; more than anyone on this board. What indication is there that he is in a rush to the alter? Because he is in love and living in son with his "hott" girlfriend? And nobody on this board knows if the King or Parliament will consent or deny them getting married. Yet even if both the King and Parliament agreed; there are still people on here who insist he still shouldnt do it because of how the public perceives her. Screw the people who are actually involved in the situation and know Sofia; the public who has 0 insight except for pictures must know best.
So what exactly are you trying to say?
Your posts are confusing me.
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  #1689  
Old 09-01-2011, 09:14 PM
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Oh my god, there are people who don´t like other people? That is brand new information!
Seriously a forum supposed to tell your opnions, and if they are negative.

And I tell it again: I don´t like her :)
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  #1690  
Old 09-01-2011, 09:22 PM
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And I am giving my opinion, you not liking her; doesn't effect Carl Philip. He does like her and apparently so do his parents.

And just to clarify I never said carl philip wasn't lazy, I honestly don't know one way or another. Perhaps he is lazy, or perhaps he is perceived to be lazy but he is doing a job that the palace is pleased with.
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  #1691  
Old 09-01-2011, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis View Post
Oh my god, there are people who don´t like other people? That is brand new information!
Seriously a forum supposed to tell your opnions, and if they are negative.

And I tell it again: I don´t like her :)
Completely agree,that's how the freedom of speech works.Neither do I,but it's just my opinion that she won't make a fine bride for a prince.We do not know her really well,this is subjective opinion,from other side she brings the hope that any modern girl could marry a prince,though she'll never be the classical princess and one could not win all people's hearts.
  #1692  
Old 09-01-2011, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
I believe Zonk's post, #1683, answers your question.

I'm sorry but if the SRF court is releasing statements about Sofia then it's definitely official. It can't get more official than that.

Do we need the court to state that Madeleine and Chris are officially dating? This notion is quite silly.
And I agree with both you and Zonk. Being new to royal watching, I thought I might have missed some weird royal ettiquette about dating and such.
  #1693  
Old 09-01-2011, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
And I am giving my opinion, you not liking her; doesn't effect Carl Philip. He does like her and apparently so do his parents.
.
I know it won´t affect him, otherwise he would have contacted me.
But if people have to hold their tongue, because it doesn´t affect the life of the Royal Family, then of course is their the question if criticism is allowed? Should people who live in a monarchy just smile and wave the flags? Isn´t it in the interest of the people to discuss who will represent them?

But isn´t it just also speculation if his parents like her? I could say the opposite.But I don´t know.
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  #1694  
Old 09-01-2011, 11:07 PM
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Prince Carl Phillip and Sofia Hellqvist are in a serious relationship even though it is not officially recognized. When a couple is seen together much of the time they are out in public (restaurants, nightclubs, etc), then it is a relationship. If they were seen once or twice a month together, then it would be more of a friendship or just friends type of relationship. When a royal officially announces a relationship, it's usually serious (close to being engaged in some cases).

Tell someone that they can't or shouldn't date this person or that person, and what happens is in some cases they are drawn together more. If you tell them you don't like this person or others tell them the same, then the attraction seems to get stronger. The more opposition the stronger the attraction. The forbidden fruit I guess you could say.

It would be interesting where this relationship would go if family members of Prince Carl Phillip bit their tongue (didn't say anything negative about this woman) and basically invited Sofia Hellqvist to every royal function that she could go to. If they told him and everyone else that they really liked her a lot and wanted him to see more of her and encouraged their relationship, it would be interesting to see what would happened to the relationship. Of course this would be taking a risk because you would not know the outcome. The relationship would either go nowhere or become stronger.
  #1695  
Old 09-01-2011, 11:54 PM
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Missing link

In this whole rather complicated and divisive discussion, I've always felt like there was a puzzle with a piece missing...at least for me. I re-read the last couple of pages and think I found what has been missing from this discussion.

It has basically devolved into two groups - those who criticize Sofia's past actions & choices and her present motives & intentions vs. those who are angry/upset with the first group. I've been thinking that most of the angry ones have been okay with everything Sofia has done (some are and I still don't understand them) and don't want anyone criticising her. But then I realized that some people aren't even addressing Sofia or her actions. These angry people say that because Sofia is not "official" there is no possibility that she and CP could be considering marriage so there is no point to discuss her or why they shouldn't be married.

Considering that, I looked at my own thoughts again and came up with this -

CP is not an ordinary guy. CP has never been a "player" - he was with Emma for 10 years. CP waited until he was 30 to start "hanging around" with a woman who IMO is completely unsuitable for any family with dignity. My expectation is that at 30 years old, CP would be arranging his life to prepare for his long-term future - career,wife, children, etc. And the light went on - either CP is living his wild time playing like Harry of Wales 10 years later and is using Sofia for what she does best, OR he actually hasn't considered what he wants to do with his life, what kind of woman he wants to spend his life with/be the mother of his children, etc.

If the first situation is the case - I wish he would be honest and say he is just using her for sex...but he can't because that would be a "semi-official acknowledgement" of the relationship and probably make him even less popular.

If the second situation is the case - then I fear that in the next couple of years when other people who actually know him start pressuring him to find a wife, find a career, find a life, etc. he will make a nervous choice and the closest thing around will be Sofia, because honestly - after he dated a woman for 10 years then split up with her, and then found a woman who has less education, accomplishments, respectability, and dignity than even Charlene....I don't care how good-looking he is...who is going to want to date a man like that?

My concerns are not that they are planning or even will get married. My concern is that a man in his 30s is behaving in a manner that I would have expected when he was in his 20s (and truthfully probably wouldn't have cared much about then). I dislike Sofia's past actions, distrust her present intentions, and fear Carl Philip's future choices.
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  #1696  
Old 09-02-2011, 12:50 AM
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I don't like or dislike Sofia's past or her present actions; my problem is with people labeling her as a skank or a whore or a gold digger and saying that simply because Carl Philip is dating her that he is not worthy of his station in life. I also think the context around their relationship should be taken into consideration and how CPs family treats her would probably say something about how they feel about her. Nobody knows what is going on behind closed doors; if CP is with Sofia as a fling I'm not going to hate on him; either he is having an early midlife crisis or a late 20 something craziness. If he is taking her seriously (which I highly doubt or Sofia would be acting differently) and his family and parliament embrace her then I am keen to believe that there is something about her that they like and accept despite the pictures, tweets, and lack of education.
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  #1697  
Old 09-02-2011, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
He never became an official boyfriend. He went from public boyfriend to official fiance and lateron husband. That's how I see it. Because as a boyfriend he never officially got acknowledged by the court. Just like Emma, Jonas, Sofia and Chris. At least I don't remember an official press release that stated him as the boyfriend of the crownprincess. But correct me if I remember wrong.
You are correct KitKat2006. The court never commented on those relationships (CP/Emma, Victoria/Daniel Collert, Victoria/Daniel Westling until he became the official fiancee, same with Madeleine/Jonas) for "privacy" reasons.

The fact that the court is officially recognizing the CP/Sofia relationship by commenting on some gossip is a novum and by doing so they have forfeited to pull the "privacy" card in this issue ever again.
  #1698  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
ETA: I don' t know how it is in Sweden but WA needed Parliament's approval to marry Maxima in the Netherlands. His brother didn't get the approval (the couple also lied to Parliament but thats another story), and as a result lost his position in the line of succession and is no longer a member of the Royal House. So for some royals...... approval is essential to maintaining your place in succession, your title, and the money that is allocated to you via the government.
Hope this answers your question Zonk:

Engagement between Crown Princess Victoria and Daniel Westling

"After His Majesty The King of Sweden had given his consent to the marriage between the Crown Princess and Mr. Westling, His Majesty, in accordance with the procedures set out in the Swedish Constitution, requested the agreement by the Swedish Government, which was subsequently communicated to His Majesty in connection with an information council held at the Royal Palace today."

I imagine it would be the same for Carl Philip as he is an heir to the Swedish throne.
  #1699  
Old 09-02-2011, 07:52 AM
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Very well written!

Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
And now I am making another point, she/he does not represent all of Sweden. Nobody knows what the Swedish people think unless there has been a national poll. There are people on here who don't like Kate, Charlene, Daniel etc. Kate's lazy, Charlene's a gold digger, and how dare the Crown Princess of Sweden marry her personal trainer. It's ridiculous how people everywhere thinks there opinion matters most especially in this situation.
And let me point out, yet again, that CP in his position knows the rules; he knows how and what he must do to marry; more than anyone on this board. What indication is there that he is in a rush to the alter? Because he is in love and living in son with his "hott" girlfriend? And nobody on this board knows if the King or Parliament will consent or deny them getting married. Yet even if both the King and Parliament agreed; there are still people on here who insist he still shouldnt do it because of how the public perceives her. Screw the people who are actually involved in the situation and know Sofia; the public who has 0 insight except for pictures must know best.
Here we have a very good example of the difference between the officially announced by the officel Sweden and the press and media writes about a relationship. Officially announced as the court majority held that the government and parliament = the people's representatives, have no objection to the relationship. (Would it be an announcement and then followed by marriage, we don´t know yet if the prince may maintain his title and be part of the royal house, or if he becomes the Count of Värmland. What the title of prince CP:s wife will be to come will not be apparent before a marriage is officially announced.
  #1700  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
You are correct KitKat2006. The court never commented on those relationships (CP/Emma, Victoria/Daniel Collert, Victoria/Daniel Westling until he became the official fiancee, same with Madeleine/Jonas) for "privacy" reasons.

The fact that the court is officially recognizing the CP/Sofia relationship by commenting on some gossip is a novum and by doing so they have forfeited to pull the "privacy" card in this issue ever again.
The court has only commented that the prince hanging out with "a young woman" (Sofia) and that the press uses the relationship she has with Prince Carl Philip to exploit the same young woman. It is, in royal connections, not the same as a notice of public engagement between the couple.
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