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  #981  
Old 12-15-2010, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
Honestly, I like those pictures. Those aren't bad ones or ones shouting "scandal" all over. Only the "bondage"-pic and the last two are pushing the limits a little, but since I think she made them years ago when there was no prince in sight I don't see why she shouldn't have taken them, when she was okay with them.
The problem people can have with them is that she was 15 or 16 when they were taken. I think that's a bit too early for pictures with such a sexual undertone and it speaks volumes about her and her parents judgement.
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  #982  
Old 12-15-2010, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Iva View Post
The problem people can have with them is that she was 15 or 16 when they were taken. I think that's a bit too early for pictures with such a sexual undertone and it speaks volumes about her and her parents judgement.
Yes,from these pictures the people could conclude amny unpleasant facts about her
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  #983  
Old 12-15-2010, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Iva View Post
The problem people can have with them is that she was 15 or 16 when they were taken. I think that's a bit too early for pictures with such a sexual undertone and it speaks volumes about her and her parents judgement.
That's why I wrote they were pushing the limits. And how do you know how old she was back than? The site had only photos, no text. Did that stand anywhere else? How reliable are those sources?
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  #984  
Old 12-15-2010, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Moninka View Post
CP is bad in school. People think Sofia distract him from studying.
Carl Philip sliter på skolen*|* TV 2 Underholdning
Come on! I don´t like her very much, but to blame her is too silly.
If he is lazy it´s his fault.
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  #985  
Old 12-15-2010, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Iva View Post
The problem people can have with them is that she was 15 or 16 when they were taken. I think that's a bit too early for pictures with such a sexual undertone and it speaks volumes about her and her parents judgement.
Exactly! If Sofia is 15 or 16 indeed I find some of these pictures really disturbing, although not pornographic its material that has the erotic level of Playboy or Penthouse. What kind of parents does she have, dont they care how their underage daughter is presenting herself It would be a different matter if Sofia had already passed her 18th birthday but happily doing such pictures as a teenager speak volumes about somebodys personality.

Maybe CP is rebelling against his parents, after what came to light about his father he doesnt want to hide his tacky girlfriend any longer. I dont see any princess material but that sounds familiar thinking of Mette-Marit. However, I dont think Sweden has the same level of tolerance as Norway, especially after finding out that their King is attracted to the red-light milieu they wouldnt want to put up with a girl like Sofia who could even become their Queen one day if things go really wrong.
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  #986  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis View Post
Come on! I don´t like her very much, but to blame her is too silly.
If he is lazy it´s his fault.
I know. He isn't under the pressure to finish the school. His future is written. I am now in last year at university too and I am a little bit lazy, but I know I have to finish my studies and I am going for it.
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  #987  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Exactly! If Sofia is 15 or 16 indeed I find some of these pictures really disturbing, although not pornographic its material that has the erotic level of Playboy or Penthouse. What kind of parents does she have, dont they care how their underage daughter is presenting herself It would be a different matter if Sofia had already passed her 18th birthday but happily doing such pictures as a teenager speak volumes about somebodys personality.

Maybe CP is rebelling against his parents, after what came to light about his father he doesnt want to hide his tacky girlfriend any longer. I dont see any princess material but that sounds familiar thinking of Mette-Marit. However, I dont think Sweden has the same level of tolerance as Norway, especially after finding out that their King is attracted to the red-light milieu they wouldnt want to put up with a girl like Sofia who could even become their Queen one day if things go really wrong.
Exactly!

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  #988  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis View Post
Come on! I don´t like her very much, but to blame her is too silly.
If he is lazy it´s his fault.
Precisely.
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  #989  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:53 AM
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Given the recent revelations surrounding the King's dalliances in the past, and the press reports about CPs relationship with so,ebody with a past, I can't help be drawn to the Prince Bertil who spent most of his life not being married to Lillian, so as not to in any way harm the Swedish monarchy. The only hope seem to be Victoria and Daniel, who appear (so far) to kept their noses clean. Somebody ought to talk sense into CP, since he clearly does not seem to be able to make the right judgement call himself.
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  #990  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:25 PM
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Regarding Sofia's choices and her age, several people have suggested that the questionable things she has done are in her past (which was not that long ago) and that she should be excused for the "mistakes" she made in her youth.

After considering the over-sexualization of young people and the steadily advancing maturity (although I would call it a lack thereof) in teenagers since the 1970s, I don't believe there are young people over the age of maybe 11 or 12 who wouldn't know that these are probably the wrong choices if they wish to be respected and taken seriously.

Looking at everything we know about Sofia (which I admit is probably less than 10% of who she is), I still can't give her a pass on her past. I can see hastily jumping into an ill-advised marriage (like Letizia) as a mistake. I suppose I would also see experimentation with drugs, sex, and having a child out of wedlock (like Mette-Marit) a mistake. These are things that maybe not the majority but a vast number of people around the world have done in their lives - whether they consider them a mistake or not.

Sofia's choices were made after she became old enough to know better and aren't the choices that most people around the world have made in their lives.

I wouldn't call her choices a mistake. I would call them a flaw in her character and something that can't be fixed with a few photo ops doing charity work. Even that speaks to her character - "look at ME", "look at the work I'M doing", "see how professional/appropriate/acceptable I can be".

If she wants to earn respect she should have made respectable choices before. If she and CP really love each other and want to be respected, then she needs to stop doing charity work, stop appearing as a spokesperson for any charity, stop modeling, and live a very quiet life not in public for the next thirty years - like Bertil and Lilian. Then maybe she will be forgiven for the choices she made recently and will be accepted as a wife for CP.
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  #991  
Old 12-16-2010, 01:13 PM
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I don't think there are a lot of young people over the age of 12 who are thinking about being respected or taken seriously. A lot of teens and young adults live for the moment and don't take in to account what the repercussions of their actions are. I'm sure some of us have done things when young and if asked would they do them now they would say no. It also has to do with the level of maturity . There are some 16 year olds that are more mature and together than some 25 year olds.
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  #992  
Old 12-16-2010, 01:20 PM
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yes, to me your rant on Sofia speaks volumes too. Learn to respect people who have different opinions than yours. That will speak VOLUMES about your character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
Looking at everything we know about Sofia (which I admit is probably less than 10% of who she is), I still can't give her a pass on her past. I can see hastily jumping into an ill-advised marriage (like Letizia) as a mistake. I suppose I would also see experimentation with drugs, sex, and having a child out of wedlock (like Mette-Marit) a mistake. These are things that maybe not the majority but a vast number of people around the world have done in their lives - whether they consider them a mistake or not.
how are drugs a lesser mistake than posing for nude pictures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
Sofia's choices were made after she became old enough to know better and aren't the choices that most people around the world have made in their lives.

I wouldn't call her choices a mistake. I would call them a flaw in her character and something that can't be fixed with a few photo ops doing charity work.
exercising her freedom as a teen speaks volumes about her character? they speak volumes about her free personality to me. perhaps a bunch of pictures say different things to different people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
If she wants to earn respect she should have made respectable choices before. If she and CP really love each other and want to be respected, then she needs to stop doing charity work, stop appearing as a spokesperson for any charity, stop modeling, and live a very quiet life not in public for the next thirty years - like Bertil and Lilian. Then maybe she will be forgiven for the choices she made recently and will be accepted as a wife for CP.
you think she should wait 30 years for a marriage??
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  #993  
Old 12-16-2010, 01:23 PM
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I fail to see how someone dating for 8 years has anything to do with someone who has posed nude. Or how they are comparable.

Isn't this thread about the relationship of Sofia and Carl Phillip? Why do we need to bring up Kate Middleton?
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  #994  
Old 12-16-2010, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rascal
LOL, Muriel. Yeah, it speaks VOLUMES.

yes, to me your rant on Sofia speaks volumes too. Learn to respect people who have different opinions than yours. That will speak VOLUMES about your character.


Looking at everything we know about Sofia (which I admit is probably less than 10% of who she is), I still can't give her a pass on her past. I can see hastily jumping into an ill-advised marriage (like Letizia) as a mistake. I suppose I would also see experimentation with drugs, sex, and having a child out of wedlock (like Mette-Marit) a mistake. These are things that maybe not the majority but a vast number of people around the world have done in their lives - whether they consider them a mistake or not.

how are drugs a lesser mistake than posing for nude pictures?
I didn't say drugs are a lesser mistake. I said I could see it as a mistake as a greater percentage of the population in the world has experimented with them. In addition, many people experiement with drugs because of peer pressure..the same with sexual experimentation. But I've never seen any discussion about peer pressure where a group of friends or schoolmates encourage someon to pose in the manner Sofia did.

Sofia's choices were made after she became old enough to know better and aren't the choices that most people around the world have made in their lives.

I wouldn't call her choices a mistake. I would call them a flaw in her character and something that can't be fixed with a few photo ops doing charity work.

exercising her freedom as a teen speaks volumes about her character? they speak volumes about her free personality to me. perhaps a bunch of pictures say different things to different people.
You're exactly right, cd_1. These pictures say different things to different people. Based on the responses here some people see them as no big deal. Based on most of the responses I have seen here and in the media comments, most people feel that they are shocking and inappropriate. I agree that a teen exercising his/her freedom is an admirable thing. But along with that freedom comes a huge responsibility to make intelligent, informed choices. Her choices say to me that she is craves attention and approval and that she is willing to do anything she thinks will get her those things.

If she wants to earn respect she should have made respectable choices before. If she and CP really love each other and want to be respected, then she needs to stop doing charity work, stop appearing as a spokesperson for any charity, stop modeling, and live a very quiet life not in public for the next thirty years - like Bertil and Lilian. Then maybe she will be forgiven for the choices she made recently and will be accepted as a wife for CP.

Okay, maybe 30 years is asking a bit much considering where the so-called moral compass of society is now compared to the 1940s, but if Sofia was concerned with being accepted, she should stop putting herself in opportunities and to garner attention. She still has not done that. In addition, I consider what Bertil and Lilian did to be much more respectful than this situation.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

...I realized I touched a very sensitive nerve. I apologize. I can't speak for Muriel but quick explanation.....my original post about it speaking volumes was addressing how so many people are treating this as if it is harmless (which it is not) child's play (which considering her age at the time IS). I think it speaks volumes that as a society or societies we have continued to lower the bar on what is acceptable behavior (usually for someone other than our own daughters, sisters, etc.) and in this forum, several people, yourself included, believe that Sofia's choices are acceptable. I don't know you and I always appreciate discussion (see responses in blue above). For my sweeping statement which obviously upset you, again I apologize. My opinion about the issue is still the same but I hope you can move past that.
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  #995  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:42 PM
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I don't what Sofia background was. I know women who've come from very conservative religious background who have rebelled big time against it. I came from a very conservative religious background. I got very tired of being told how I should dress, look, think or feel. When I was 19 years old, I rebelled right under the nose of everyone.

I went to a nightclub and wore the skimpest sexy looking clothing I could find.. I was 19 years old. This was the first time in my life that I had worn anything that was sexy or revealing. I was told by family members that if I wore clothing like this, I would be at great risk for being attacked or assaulted. Well no one talked to me and no one attacked me or tried to assault me. I realized that I only did this to prove a point. I didn't feel comfortable dressed like this but it had nothing to do with dressing modestly. It really wasn't my style I was rebelling. Years later I was told by my family that God Protects Fools and that was why I wasn't attacked or assaulted. People that I tell this story to are very shocked that I did this.

Swedish has a more liberal attitude about nudity than the United States. My opinion about her goes back and forth. I wouldn't say that this is acceptable (I think someone who becomes a Princess should have a much higher standard of behavior) but then again noone is perfect.
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  #996  
Old 12-17-2010, 08:35 AM
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yes, to me your rant on Sofia speaks volumes too. Learn to respect people who have different opinions than yours. That will speak VOLUMES about your character.
Its clear my post (which has since been deleted) has certainly got a very angry response from cd_1. TRF welcomes posters with diverse views, and whilst we all cannot always agree, we can have a civilised debate. Its the diversity in thought and (hopefully) intelligent debate that follows is what makes TRF the lively place it often is.

Lets not get personal, and talk about the supposed charcacter of posters we know little about. All I had said was that I thought your posts were very revealing - not sure what was so offensive about it?

Mods - Could you pl reinstate my posts or tell me why they were removed by PM. Many thanks
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  #997  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:36 AM
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^ even my posts were deleted Muriel, in which I apologized, and so was one of Rascal's.
As for CP and Sofia, are they still not living together? And if they are then where? i keep hearing about CP's new home being renovated (posted in previous pages I think). Have they finally moved in or not?
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  #998  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:54 PM
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I think there were some posts in the last month that said CP & Sofia had moved into the farmhouse he inherited. But several people said the information came from unreliable media sources - gossip rags, etc. Other than the last article about Sofia supposedly affecting his studies there really haven't been any new developments for at least a month.
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  #999  
Old 12-17-2010, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
Swedish has a more liberal attitude about nudity than the United States. My opinion about her goes back and forth. I wouldn't say that this is acceptable (I think someone who becomes a Princess should have a much higher standard of behavior) but then again noone is perfect.
I appreciate how your personal experience might mirror some of Sofia's motivation, nascarlucy. But I still believe this is different. Unless you aren't telling the whole truth (LOL!), you didn't create photographic documentation of your rebellion to be published in a men's magazine.

As to your quote posted above, I have no problems with nudity. I think a human body, particularly a naked female, is a beautiful thing on many different levels. But there is a difference between artistic beauty (which can be found in paintings, statues, and IMO even some of the Playboy pictorials) and the photographs we have seen of Sofia. It's the difference between erotica and pornography, and that is a matter of opinion that even the Supreme Court here in the US can't define - (they can't define pornography but they know it when they see it).

Sofia's pictures aren't the worst out there and similar pictures have been seen in Playboy - but I would say they are approaching the racier end of Playboy or the tamer end of Penthouse, rather than artistic nudity...which makes them closer to porn than erotica.

But even if hers were the really artistic, completely professional type of nudes produced for example of Olympic athletes for Sports Illustrated or Vanity Fair (usually before the Olympic games), I would say it would be an inappropriate choice for her life and I see nothing wrong with those pictures.

I suppose it's a matter of expectations some may have for a royal person. Yes, Prince Charles was photographed nude while dressing inside a hotel room/cabana whatever it was. It's not the same thing because he was not posing for a photographer. But he should still have used better judgement than to change in front of an open window. Heads of state here in the US as teens have used drugs (Clinton & Obama) or alcohol to excess (George W. Bush) and gone on to become a head of state. But none of them were raised since birth to be a future head of state. Most of them made the decision to enter politics and public life after those events. Charles had been raised since birth knowing that he was going to be a future head of state so his lack of judgment IMO is worse than the others.

My expectations of CP are to choose one of the millions of beautiful, intelligent, sweet, discreet young women who haven't posed topless, or made out with a porn star, publicly stated their ambition in life is to be famous, participated in a reality program, and/or bragged about their relationship with any man - let alone a prince - on twitter or facebook.

My expectation for his potential wife is to have done none of those things.

The horse is dead...y'all know where I stand. Nothing more from me....LOL..unless they get engaged LOLOLOLLLOL!!!!
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:42 PM
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Rascal: No my rebellion was not photographed. Mine would be too tame to be in a men's magazine. Didn't rise to that level. My outfit would have been seen in Glamour Magazine but probably not Seventeen or Teen magazine.
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