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  #661  
Old 08-31-2010, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lorette View Post
She was in no need. Sweden is a socal state which gives people all opportunities. She was not going hungry and she could have gotten an education. She does have quite normal parents. So where is the need? Apart from the need to be admired and in the center of attention?
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
You have pretty much said it all...this young woman did not exhibit her body because she had to...she did it because she WANTED to.

[...]

The standards for Royal spouses keeps getting lower and lower and lower...and with Sofia the bar seems to be set the lowest of all. I wonder when will their subjects will finally say ENOUGH?
Why always this "need"- and "social state"-excuse when it comes to how she earns her living? I don't get it. She choose this job because she wanted to be a model. I don't see something wrong with that. And because she wanted to be in the spotlight. But not even that is a bad thing. millions of people want to be in the spotlight every day in every place on this planet. Are those people all narcissistic, exhibitionists and opportunists? Every actor, every model, every politician? And don't give me this "she posed nude, therefore she is all that above and more, because posing nude is just a little step above being a whore (and yes, exactly that are you and others impling)"-excuse.

There are a lot of other famous and rich people who posed for nude magazines, because of other reasons than being in need. So why is it so unlikely for Sofia to just love this job for itself? Why is it so bad that she just graps one of the opportunities this jobs gives her. Everyone of us would do the same in her job. Just because you don't need an education for the job "model" it doesn't say it isn't a hard and respectful job. And don't give me this "she doesn't have to be nude if she wanted to be a model"-excuse again. She choose it like millions of other girls, too. Those photos are not playboy-photos, I know that, but they are not Armageddon, too.

Most of the photos of her are WITH clothes. I just know of a few WITHOUT clothes (and even those I regard as find out ones limits/options, nothing more). So where is the problem? Her modeling career may regard just 10% of her life. There are other things like her upbringing, her family, her schooltime, her hobbies, her friends, her experiences, her favourite films/foods/color/music, her pets, etc about which we know nothing of, but that means those things aren't not as important for the person Sofia is.

We "just" know her worklife in which she does respectful bikini-shots and in which are just about 10% photos a lot of us can't aprove, but exactly those photos are choosen to prove, that she isn't a good person for the spot (as CPs girlfriend) she lives in now. So we're just fighting/discussing here about 1, 2 or maybe 3 % of the essence of Sofia? That's more than pathetic, don't you think?

I think she deserves more fairness. And I also think CP does deserve more fairness. And I'm more than thankful that I grew up in an open-minded, non-conservative country.
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  #662  
Old 08-31-2010, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
Why always this "need"- and "social state"-excuse when it comes to how she earns her living? I don't get it. She choose this job because she wanted to be a model. I don't see something wrong with that. And because she wanted to be in the spotlight. But not even that is a bad thing. millions of people want to be in the spotlight every day in every place on this planet. Are those people all narcissistic, exhibitionists and opportunists? Every actor, every model, every politician? And don't give me this "she posed nude, therefore she is all that above and more, because posing nude is just a little step above being a whore (and yes, exactly that are you and others impling)"-excuse.
Why yes, more or less. It would be more than difficult, IMHO, if movie actors, models or politicians would be persons that shy that they would have to avoid being in the center of attention. I've read a really good book about narcissism lately and there are more narcissists out there than you may guess. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, indeed. Actually I think it can be rather helpful in their positions.

Quote:
There are a lot of other famous and rich people who posed for nude magazines, because of other reasons than being in need. So why is it so unlikely for Sofia to just love this job for itself?
You're confusing celebrities with royals. There's nothing wrong with Sofia being a model and posing nude as long as she's Sofia Hellqvist. You may like it or not, that's all. She's entitled to do what she wants with her body and life. But for a future Princess I'm afraid it's still a no-no as many consider it to be unsuitable. And I think this common opinion won't change, at least not now or within the next years.
Royals may become more and more like celebrities, but I don't think that this is helpful for them or the monarchy. Actually I think people will be fed up with them soon if they're like all those annoying B- or C-celebs.


Quote:
Why is it so bad that she just graps one of the opportunities this jobs gives her. Everyone of us would do the same in her job. Just because you don't need an education for the job "model" it doesn't say it isn't a hard and respectful job. And don't give me this "she doesn't have to be nude if she wanted to be a model"-excuse again. She choose it like millions of other girls, too. Those photos are not playboy-photos, I know that, but they are not Armageddon, too.

Most of the photos of her are WITH clothes. I just know of a few WITHOUT clothes (and even those I regard as find out ones limits/options, nothing more). So where is the problem? Her modeling career may regard just 10% of her life. There are other things like her upbringing, her family, her schooltime, her hobbies, her friends, her experiences, her favourite films/foods/color/music, her pets, etc about which we know nothing of, but that means those things aren't not as important for the person Sofia is.

We "just" know her worklife in which she does respectful bikini-shots and in which are just about 10% photos a lot of us can't aprove, but exactly those photos are choosen to prove, that she isn't a good person for the spot (as CPs girlfriend) she lives in now. So we're just fighting/discussing here about 1, 2 or maybe 3 % of the essence of Sofia? That's more than pathetic, don't you think?

I think she deserves more fairness. And I also think CP does deserve more fairness. And I'm more than thankful that I grew up in an open-minded, non-conservative country.
So am I. I admire your idealism, but I think the world (at least the "old world") isn't that way. Truth is not so much taught as caught - in the past there have been women (even in the nineties) that have had less "bad habits" than being a nude model but weren't allowed to marry their Princes...
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  #663  
Old 08-31-2010, 02:36 PM
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BINGO....CELEBRITIES ARE NOT ROYALS!!

Why is that so hard for some people to grasp??

A ruling Royal Family are representatives not only of Royalty, but of the Nation. They put a respective face on the outside to their Country...it's history, it's traditions and yes...it's DIGNITY and it's PRESTIGE.

This shortsighted and stubborn refusal to see that in some important and key cases they are not "just like everyone else" is the reason so many of them are in serious danger of becoming irrelevant, obsolete......and "common".

The blurring of the line between celebrity and Royal costs them their prestige and makes them the butt of jokes.

It also makes the taxpayers who support them eventually resent having to do so.
  #664  
Old 08-31-2010, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierna23 View Post
You're confusing celebrities with royals. There's nothing wrong with Sofia being a model and posing nude as long as she's Sofia Hellqvist. You may like it or not, that's all. She's entitled to do what she wants with her body and life. But for a future Princess I'm afraid it's still a no-no as many consider it to be unsuitable. And I think this common opinion won't change, at least not now or within the next years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
BINGO....CELEBRITIES ARE NOT ROYALS!!

Why is that so hard for some people to grasp??

A ruling Royal Family are representatives not only of Royalty, but of the Nation. They put a respective face on the outside to their Country...it's history, it's traditions and yes...it's DIGNITY and it's PRESTIGE.

This shortsighted and stubborn refusal to see that in some important and key cases they are "not just like everyone else" is the reason so many of them are in serious danger of becoming irrelevant, obsolete......and "common".

The blurring of the line between celebrity and Royal costs them their prestige and makes them the butt of jokes.

It also makes the taxpayers who support them eventually resent having to do so.
I'm sorry, but I'M not confusing celebrities (Sofia) and royals (Carl Philip). They're currently just a couple. They never talked about tying the knot, so why all this talk about her not being suitable as princess? It's irrelevant. She ISN'T a princess, NOR does she make nude photos nowadays. Because she just doesn't want to herself or because she doesn't want to compromisse CP we don't know, but she doesn't and that's want counts and earns her my respect. She isn't doing anything wrong, nor does CP IMO.
  #665  
Old 08-31-2010, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
So am I. I admire your idealism, but I think the world (at least the "old world") isn't that way. Truth is not so much taught as caught - in the past there have been women (even in the nineties) that have had less "bad habits" than being a nude model but weren't allowed to marry their Princes...
A lot of these women were not allowed to marry princes but the reasons given were very frivolous. The woman's parents were divorced was one reason or someone else in her family did something which was unacceptable. This does not pass muster. The divorce of one's parents has nothing to do with you and should not be used to judge you.

Other reasons were the woman social standing wasn't high enough. Didn't matter the fact that the woman might have been a nice person or had proper manners or was a good match.

In other cases the parents of the royal involved looked for something that would make the woman unacceptable or something in the woman's life that perhaps was embarrassing to her and used that to end any potential marriage. What it basically came down to was in many cases, the parents of the male royal just didn't like the woman, period. That doesn't sound very nice but in some cases this is probably what is what, but they used other excuses. If they liked the woman, they would overlook her parents divorce or overlooked her social standing, or overlook other things that they wouldn't if they didn't like her.

It sad to think that a good matchup was denied due to friviolous reasons.
  #666  
Old 08-31-2010, 07:23 PM
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Yes, I am implying that the pictures she is making are very lowly soft porn pictures. She never was a serious model. Compare the nude pics of Carla Bruni with hers, and you'll see the difference. Not every actor, politician or model sells themselves for such low a price. It is perfectly ok to be in the spotlight. CP Viktoria is in the spotlight, but she is there because of her own hard work, and not because she meet somebody who pay her a bit for a steamy but bad quality photo. Yes I am implying that she found meeting and kissing a porn model great and boasted about it, and I would find that disturbing for any healthy young woman and would hate my son to date someone like that. Yes I am implying that I find that immoral and unfit for any serious circle of society. So what? I do have standards, and what is wrong about that? If she goes on being CP's girlfriend she'll meet more people who thing like me.

Oh, one has to be fair, and so I include a pic of her with clothes on:
http://cdn.famegame.com/share/upload....jpg/Array.jpg
  #667  
Old 08-31-2010, 07:43 PM
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No royal household would accept a woman into their family who posed nude. This is where they would probably draw a line and would not budge.

I don't know what the wages or salaries are in Sweden but in the Orlando area and to a much lesser degree Daytona Beach area, a woman who works as a dancer at a strip club, dances at a private event or who poses nude gets paid a lot more than the average working woman. Twice as much in a few cases. This is very tempting to a woman whose pretty or attractive and doesn't have any religious or moral objection to this to partake of it. The money is what lures them. If dancers were paid minimum wage or women who posed nude were paid minimum wage, do you think they would do this? Probably not.
  #668  
Old 08-31-2010, 08:03 PM
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Let me clear of my thoughts for Sofia, as someone who is Anti Sofia but not in a nasty way.

I don't know Sofia. Most likely she is a nice person who makes Carl Phillip very happy. And that is great. If they like each other and it if it grows into love that is also great. If she was some girl on the street and he the same and they found each other that would be great.

But Carl Phillip is no regular guy. He is a Prince and that's supposed to mean something.

Let me ask a question, and we don't need to answer it...but what made you get into royalty. My reason was a lady named Diana but I soon became fascinated by the history of various royal families. They stood for something: quite often in the turblent times of their countries history they served as leaders. They are a family to rally around. They should do good public works and they should always smile even when they are unhappy. Sometimes they are good and sometimes they are bad, but the public supports them financially and they have a right to question some of the things they do. But get this, they are never suppoesd to be normal or common. Because really if they are....why do you need a royal family?

People think that the Con Sofia people are being judgemental and mean but I disagree. If she was an actress who kept her clothes on I wouldn't have a problem with her. But she didn't. For whatever reasons, and they are her own, she choose to be a nude model. I am sorry, that's a deal breaker. That is about as common as common gets. There are certain things that royals shouldn't do and posing nude is one of them. And yes, she didn't know she would be dating a royal, I will give her that. And I am sorry, there are no comparisons of her posing nude and other royal girlfriends not being accepted because of divorced parents, etc. There are NO comparisons.

Maybe we are all making a big deal out of nothing and they won't marry. Who knows. What I do know is that any form of government can be tested by the will of the people. And if the people decide that a Princess who used to pose nude is a deal breaker than they will get rid of the Swedish monarchy. And I would hate for it to come to that.
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  #669  
Old 08-31-2010, 08:22 PM
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To Zonk: When I wrote the post about various royal girlfriends who were rejected, I was not comparing them to Sofia. This was not my intent. I was just making a statement about why some of these women were rejected.
  #670  
Old 08-31-2010, 08:27 PM
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Point taken nascarlucy :) Sorry for the confusion.

I am not the most religious or conservative person out there...in fact I am very liberal in my way of thinking. I am just aghast that some people think its acceptable for a Princess to have been a former nude model in past life and to have appeared on a reality show. Most people who appear on a realtiy show unless its a talen show are just looking to be famous. I know Sweden is very liberal but WOW.
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  #671  
Old 08-31-2010, 08:38 PM
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I actually think that the media coverage on this couple is over-done. They are not getting married just seeing each other. If they get serious and the royal family is not pleased and he still wants her -- let him give up his position. If she is not worth that, they will part. Short and sweet. As for now, let him have what he can get. I didn't always think this way [heck I am old enough to be a grandparent to most of you] but this is the way life is now. It will never go back to strict morals. Even royal families have reduced their expectations where relationships are concerned. Media just needs something else to stir the pot about.
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  #672  
Old 08-31-2010, 08:41 PM
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August is usually a dull month so we need something to talk about.
  #673  
Old 08-31-2010, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Point taken nascarlucy :) Sorry for the confusion.

I am not the most religious or conservative person out there...in fact I am very liberal in my way of thinking. I am just aghast that some people think its acceptable for a Princess to have been a former nude model in past life and to have appeared on a reality show. Most people who appear on a realtiy show unless its a talen show are just looking to be famous. I know Sweden is very liberal but WOW.
Zonk, it is her stint in the reality TV show that I find even more disturbing than the photos...I have a friend who lives in Stockholm. She has seen this program and says it is about as low-brow as it gets.

So what do we know about this young woman so far?

She has done soft porn, both in print and on television
She has boasted on the Internet about making out with Jenna Jameson...a very HARD CORE porn actress.
She admits that she hung around outside nightclubs hoping to sort of accidentally bump into Prince CP

She might be a very nice girl, with a fun personality.

But she is not someone I imagine the people of Sweden want to end up as a member of their Royal family, being supported by THEIR tax dollars.
  #674  
Old 09-01-2010, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

But she is not someone I imagine the people of Sweden want to end up as a member of their Royal family, being supported by THEIR tax dollars.
The Swedish people are unlikely to be supporting Carl Philip or his wife with THEIR tax dollars. Carl Philip is independently wealthy, a few years back he received an inheritance from a wealthy Swede of a farm and house (CP then went off and studied at agricultural college for a year) he is also due to inherit the house that belongs to Princess Lillian (and her late husband), and probably much of their estate as well. CP is unlikely to ever live in a State owned property, he will work, currently he does bits and pieces of design and has his farm. As a junior prince he will carry out the handful of engagements he does currently, the focus will be on Victoria and her family.

There is no guarantee that any wife of Carl Philip will be a princess, given that he is a junior prince, with a nod to gender equity. Madeleine had she married Jonas it was stated that he would share her ducal title, but not be made a prince. There was some doubt for a while over Daniel as well. CP's wife is likely to end up a Duchess, she'll share his ducal title but not his princely one.

There is no need for Carl Philip to be a prince, he's not the heir. If he does want to marry a woman who's considered unsuitable then there's the option of him becoming a Count of Bernadotte as several of his great uncles did. Former princes who married commoners and became counts. Carl Philip has money and thanks to not being the heir, has the freedom to pretty much marry whomever he wants. It won't affect the Swedish monarchy as the focus there is on Victoria.
  #675  
Old 09-01-2010, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
There is no need for Carl Philip to be a prince, he's not the heir.
He is not crown prince, but for the moment he is nr 2 to the throne!!
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  #676  
Old 09-01-2010, 04:51 PM
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He is waaay too close to the throne for comfort..if for some tragic reason Victoria and Daniel are unable to have children PCP will be the next King of Sweden.

And of course his wife will be Queen.

Out of curiosity for posters who live in Sweden, how is the populace responding to news that PCP is seeing this girl?

Are they alarmed, amused or indifferent?
  #677  
Old 09-02-2010, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
He is waaay too close to the throne for comfort..if for some tragic reason Victoria and Daniel are unable to have children PCP will be the next King of Sweden.

And of course his wife will be Queen.

Out of curiosity for posters who live in Sweden, how is the populace responding to news that PCP is seeing this girl?

Are they alarmed, amused or indifferent?
Depends on the age. The older generation that rely on regular newspapers and dont read foregin press dont see anything major wrong with her. The younger generation that read blogs, search info on the net are more antiSofia because they know that the swedish press is holding back much info because they dont want to jeapordize their relations with the royal court.
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  #678  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:10 AM
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Thanks...so the older folks who don't go online haven't seen the photos or read some of Sofia's pronouncements on her desire for fame?

Well, that's good because I just came from another Royal messageboard and saw some pictures of Sophia that shocked the hell out of me... the one with the snake is rather mild in comparison No wonder the Court is seeking to ban them....

Thanks, mattep74!
  #679  
Old 09-03-2010, 09:10 AM
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This just showed up on the Exspressen website. I'm really not sure what to make of it.

Prinsens Sofia i tårar efter talet - Nyheter - Senaste nytt | Expressen - Nyheter Sport Ekonomi Nöje
  #680  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:01 PM
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The article seems to try to "sanitize" her. I think PCP will be able to marry her if he is willing to give up his position.

Another example of the deterioration of royal families. Sad...
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