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  #521  
Old 08-06-2010, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
And if he loves her he will.
yes but at the cost of people getting tired of having to accept pin ups etc as "royals".
CP may well get his way but he is biting the hand that is feeding him and his family.
There are examples of embarrassing or tacky people surrounding an elected president but in this case the public has the opportunity to say "No thank you" after a few years.
The Bernadottes etc are meant forever but the "ordinarization" of the institution is a strong argument against it.
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  #522  
Old 08-06-2010, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
Lumutqueen: Well we can debate how long ages are forever. The reality is that she had the pictures taken 2 years ago iirc.

Sofia is now taking heat from just about everywere, something not even Jonas Bergstrom was subjected to and he broke of an engagement with a princess. I think Carl-Philip will be forced to give her up soon or else he will have to defend her the rest of his life.
Excuse me, but doesn't the article LadyFinn posted say, she had the pics taken when she was 18. She's 25 now. That means she had them taken 7 years ago and not 2 years ago. And 7 years are a lot. She's gotten older and more mature now. It's only natural that she doesn't want to discuss over 7 years old pics today anymore. In her world those pics are very old news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
And if he loves her he will.

And I really hope he does exactly that.

Well said, Lumutqueen!

And like I said before in a post that got deleted, copyrights can be bought. VIPs do that all the time to get rid of youthful follies. I'm sure CP would do exactly that if it will ever get serious. At least with the nude pics. I don't see a problem with the bikini pics. I mean, there will always be bikini pics from her even after a possible relationship, because she will still have holidays and having fun at the beach just like the other royals. And there are always paparazzi at hand.
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  #523  
Old 08-06-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
She had no idea that when she had to pictures taken she would be dating a Prince, so a lot more people have seen this pictures than she probably would have expected.

She can feel bad about having the pictures talked about all over again if she likes.
Yeah she had the pictures done, so? It was ages ago.
I understand what you're saying but that's no excuse. She knew exactly what she was doing. She is a grown woman and she made a "conscious" decision (not subconscious and not with a gun to her head) that is now being looked down on. She seemed proud of the pictures a while ago and she was proud of her many indiscretions, but all of a sudden she isn't so proud?? A 4 year old would know what's gong on here.
I'm sorry but I'm a realist and I call it the way I see it.
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  #524  
Old 08-06-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
yes but at the cost of people getting tired of having to accept pin ups etc as "royals".
CP may well get his way but he is biting the hand that is feeding him and his family.
There are examples of embarrassing or tacky people surrounding an elected president but in this case the public has the opportunity to say "No thank you" after a few years.
The Bernadottes etc are meant forever but the "ordinarization" of the institution is a strong argument against it.
Not neccesarily, if it comes a time when CP wants to marry Sofia, who says that the Swedish people are going to say anything?
Norway kicked up a fuss about MM, she explained herself and the have accepted her.
Spain have accepted a divorcee, in a Catholic country.
The UK has just about accepted Camilla as the wife of the Prince even after Diana.

Sofia proves herself worthy of the title, thats fine for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
I understand what you're saying but that's no excuse. She knew exactly what she was doing. She is a grown woman and she made a "conscious" decision (not subconscious and not with a gun to her head) that is now being looked down on. She seemed proud of the pictures a while ago and she was proud of her many indiscretions, but all of a sudden she isn't so proud?? A 4 year old would know what's gong on here.
I'm sorry but I'm a realist and I call it the way I see it.
And i'm calling it the way I see it, when did Sofia say she was proud to have these pictures taken?
Yes she made a conscious decision to have these pictures taken, but at the time, when the photographer was ready, do you think Sofia thought oops better not have these pictures done because one day I might date Prince CP of Sweden, and everyone will see these pictures? If that did cross her mind, do you think she would have done the pictures anyway?
Lets agree to disagree on how Sofia feels shall we?

And could someone please tell me when the nudes were taken?
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  #525  
Old 08-06-2010, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
And could someone please tell me when the nudes were taken?
Just look at my last entry. But that are speculations, too, based on the google-translation of the article LadyFinn posted earlier.
  #526  
Old 08-06-2010, 05:32 PM
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Yes, it is true that Camilla, Mette Marit, Daniel, Leitizia were accepted despite some questions about their past but you cant compare Apples to Oranges.

You also need to take in account the strength of the monarchy in each country. I would think that currently more people question the need for the monarchy in Sweden than in England, Spain, the Netherlands and Norway.

Mette Marit had a child before in a country that out of wedlock births is the norm not the exception. She also partied alot but didn't pose nude not that we know of.

Leitizia is a divorcee in a religious country that has seen an increase in divorces. So why not the Crown Prince?

In regards to Camilla it wasn't as though Charles and Diana divorced and then two months later he married Camilla. They waited a long enough time that it was no longer a big issue and frankly if she had been invited a wedding and didn't have the protocol issue I wonder if they would have married. She was happy with the way things were.

Mabel of the Netherlands wasn't honest, misled the government and her husband
loses his place to the throne. But no one cared because he wasn't the heir.

Perhaps no one in Sweden cares and if CP loves her I am all for that. But I tend to agree with those who question her sincerity of being "embarassed" now....did she feel the same way when she took the pictures. I would be more receptive to her (and quite honestly outraged on her behalf) if she took the pictures for her an ex boyfriend, he had them and then sold her out. If that was the case, she took the pictures with the expectation that they wouldn't be seen by no one else but her boyfriend. I don't think that is the case here.

And honeslty my issue with Sofia's pictures have to do with the prestige of the monarchy. There are certain things that royals should do IMO. And posing nude is one of them. That is a common thing to do IMO.
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  #527  
Old 08-06-2010, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post

And honeslty my issue with Sofia's pictures have to do with the prestige of the monarchy. There are certain things that royals should do IMO. And posing nude is one of them. That is a common thing to do IMO.
I'm slightly confused by this, do you mean certain things royals shouldn't do?
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  #528  
Old 08-06-2010, 06:27 PM
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Yes, there are certain things royals shouldn't do or at least let them come to light. And nude pictures are one of them.
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  #529  
Old 08-06-2010, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Yes, there are certain things royals shouldn't do or at least let them come to light. And nude pictures are one of them.
Absolutely right. But Sofia isn't a royal and even if she becomes one one day, she wasn't one when she got this pics taken, nor could she ever imagine, she would maybe one years later. So there's nothing wrong with her experiencing life when she was just a young and fairly unknown girl.
  #530  
Old 08-06-2010, 06:43 PM
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KitKat2006...we will just agree to differ.

I was watching something on television that said First, do no Harm. And I am sorry, her presence and her past can possible do harm to the Swedish monarchy. As someone previously stated, when royalty loses its mystery it does make one question the need for it. If they are just like us warts and all, nude pics and all that, what separates a Princess from a girl who just posed nude to get ahead?

I agree that she didn't know that she would date a Prince but IMO based on some of the things she has done in order to become a celebrity it does make me question on whether or not she wants CP because of who he is or what he is?
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  #531  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:00 PM
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KitKat2006...we will just agree to differ.
We should do that. It's obvious we're not on the same page here.
  #532  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:09 PM
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Zonk, you said it all and I agree.
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  #533  
Old 08-07-2010, 03:04 AM
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Wow! This thread has sparked quite a debate! I can see Lumutqueen's and KitKat2006's views on us judging her, and that maybe they are in love. I can also see the other side, where some see her as an opportunist and others as just not acceptable as royal material. I think only time will tell, eh, but in the meantime, thanks for giving me a reason to start posting again in the TRF!
  #534  
Old 08-07-2010, 08:49 AM
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There is really only one issue here - judgement. And it seems like the majority of people are questioning/criticizing Sofia's, when I think more of the responsibility should be on CP. If he hadn't made the choice to date a woman who posed for such pictures and had ALREADY been published in a men's magazine; if he hadn't chosen to date someone who had appeared in a reality show of the genre that is - in reality - "Who Wants to Be the Biggest Whore" (like almost all others of the same ilk), none of us would know her name and we certainly wouldn't be discussing her.

I'll deal with her motivations below but I think the responsibility for the public discussion, and its potential impact on the monarchy in Sweden completely rests with CP. As a prince in a reigning monarchy, he should have demonstrated better judgement. Likewise, a man his age (although emotionally he seems to be in his teens) should be clear that the choices he makes in dating have more impact than the average citizen of any country, because it will be publicized.

Which leads me to my theory - and AFAIK - only my theory on two things. Either she is an ambitious woman who is provided her companionship and whatever else may or may not be going on between them in order to further her career (come on, she was basically unknown before, despite her extensive "modeling" and "acting" resume) and he has agreed to the deal in exchange for said companionship and whatever else it entails for whatever his reasons are.

OR...perhaps he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and feeling inferior about that, he ends a relationship with someone who was more educated and intellectually stimulating and starts a relationship with an even dimmer bulb than him so he can feel like the smart one.


As far as Sofia's motivations, a couple of responses struck a chord with me and will respond to those:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Yes she made a conscious decision to have these pictures taken, but at the time, when the photographer was ready, do you think Sofia thought oops better not have these pictures done because one day I might date Prince CP of Sweden, and everyone will see these pictures? If that did cross her mind, do you think she would have done the pictures anyway?
I agree, Lumutqueen, with this statement. But I also think that any 18-year-old after the year 2000, and even before is aware of the internet and the eternal life of anything that is put out there. Even without that, any 18-year-old who, for whatever reason, removes all of their clothing except their shoes and bikini bottoms and poses for provocative photos even if they never intend for them to be published is displaying judgement of questionable character. I'm no prude, I saw the pics (IMO she has a great, albeit augmented body but is not pretty at all) and I have no problem with any woman/person posing for such pictures. My problem is with hypocrites and if Sofia expresses regret now she is being a hypocrite. If she has no regret, she is a fame-whore. My personal belief is that the latter is the case and the regret she expresses is what she has to do to make the "controversy/press attention" last longer. But maybe I am wrong and they will marry and be happy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
So there's nothing wrong with her experiencing life when she was just a young and fairly unknown girl.
Hi, KitKat2006. I had to respond because this part of your post is sort of what I think defines the problem. In most people's minds IMO, "experiencing life" involves getting an education, working at a job (where you have your clothes on), paying your rent/mortgage, hanging out with friends, falling in love, etc. For some people, "experiencing life" also includes experimenting with alcohol and drugs, having sex, making poor judgements, having a child, getting divorced, etc. IMO the majority of the people in the second group would include Mette-Marit and Letizia as well as most people in the world. But posing for photographs - even in a full one-piece swimsuit - or appearing in any reality show (even in the ones that aren't about being sexual), or making out with a porn star, is not something I think most of the people in that second group, or the even larger "most of us", would consider "experiencing life".
  #535  
Old 08-07-2010, 10:29 AM
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Had Sophia posed in a one piece swimsuit or a bikini for a magazine or on the Internet, we would not be discussing her at length.
  #536  
Old 08-07-2010, 10:54 AM
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But she didn't, she posed nude which makes it discussion worthy.
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  #537  
Old 08-08-2010, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Yes, it is true that Camilla, Mette Marit, Daniel, Leitizia were accepted despite some questions about their past but you cant compare Apples to Oranges.

You also need to take in account the strength of the monarchy in each country. I would think that currently more people question the need for the monarchy in Sweden than in England, Spain, the Netherlands and Norway.

Mette Marit had a child before in a country that out of wedlock births is the norm not the exception. She also partied alot but didn't pose nude not that we know of.

Leitizia is a divorcee in a religious country that has seen an increase in divorces. So why not the Crown Prince?

In regards to Camilla it wasn't as though Charles and Diana divorced and then two months later he married Camilla. They waited a long enough time that it was no longer a big issue and frankly if she had been invited a wedding and didn't have the protocol issue I wonder if they would have married. She was happy with the way things were.

Mabel of the Netherlands wasn't honest, misled the government and her husband
loses his place to the throne. But no one cared because he wasn't the heir.

Perhaps no one in Sweden cares and if CP loves her I am all for that. But I tend to agree with those who question her sincerity of being "embarassed" now....did she feel the same way when she took the pictures. I would be more receptive to her (and quite honestly outraged on her behalf) if she took the pictures for her an ex boyfriend, he had them and then sold her out. If that was the case, she took the pictures with the expectation that they wouldn't be seen by no one else but her boyfriend. I don't think that is the case here.

And honeslty my issue with Sofia's pictures have to do with the prestige of the monarchy. There are certain things that royals should do IMO. And posing nude is one of them. That is a common thing to do IMO.
I completely agree Zonk - but all these were more or less first cases, Camilla, MM, Letizia, Daniel, now Sofia.

My thoughts are aimed at the more distant future. If the next crop choses the same kind of partners again, because their parents already have and it has become normal, monarchy has become so ordinary that its existance is obsolete.

If the "royal" families only consist of a bunch of ordinary people whose behaviour will also become more ordinary or worse with time but still have these enormous privileges given or paid for by the public it will be the hour of a republic because its only a natural fact that who pays for the band wants to call the tune.

Again, not today, not tomorrow, not even this generation but the basis for erosion has been laid.
  #538  
Old 08-08-2010, 10:20 AM
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But I hope this is only a fling and Carl P. will come around and realize that SH isn't the right woman for him
  #539  
Old 08-08-2010, 10:25 AM
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But I hope this is only a fling and Carl P. will come around and realize that SH isn't the right woman for him
In your opinion she isn't, but he might think she is.
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  #540  
Old 08-08-2010, 10:34 AM
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Bad behavior and making bad decisions is something that everyone in this world has done or dealt with. The average person who engages in bad behavior or who makes a bad decision usually has to answer for it or take responsibility for their actions. Someone who is royal or of nobility who does the same is given what I would call a free pass. Execuses are made and someone is there to bail them out. Sometimes they do accept responsibility for their actions. Other times they don't.

Mette Marit has never been forgiven for having a child out of wedlock. Just read the forums and this speaks very loudly. If there had been any nude pictures of her, they would have come out by now.

Regardless of where the relationship goes, Sofia will always be remembered for the nude photos.
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