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  #321  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amedea View Post
Is it still possible for a Swedish prince to do not receive permission to marry and so to loose the rights by marrying? And who gives this permission, if needed? The King or the Parliament?
Government and King.

As the case "Mabel" had shown us a Prince can indeed lose his rights (though Friso was self giving them back to avoid further discussion)

I think these days only criminal activities are an real obstacle.
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  #322  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amedea View Post
Is it still possible for a Swedish prince to do not receive permission to marry and so to loose the rights by marrying? And who gives this permission, if needed? The King or the Parliament?
Its wery possible. 2 of 4 princes to Gustav VI Adolf married without concent and lost their titles.

Lets take Victoria as an example of to get premission. She waited and waited........and waited and finally she could talk her father into allowing marriage. Then Daniel had to go and ask for her hand(something that is almost forgotten in Sweden) and then propose. Then they had to recive premission first from the king. The king then summoned the primeminister and informed him. The PM then called the goverment together for a konselj(consil) with the king and the couple to formally agree to the marriage. The parliament in Sweden was informed just like the rest of us, by a leak to Expressen that same day

I honestly dont think that the goverment ever will not accept a engagement in the royal court
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  #323  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
Dictionary.com: dig·ni·ty
I genuinely cannot believe you would be so smug as to provide me with a definition.
But anyway, since you did, I fail to see how the official 'dictionary.com' definition contradicts anything I said.

Self-respect? Nude pictures aren't contradictory with that. I have already lengthily made my point.
Appreciation of the formality of an occasion? Considering her shift in behavior as well as her new wardrobe, I'm pretty sure she understands that dating a prince comes with certain expectations and she seems willing to try and match them.
Nobility, elevation of character? Treating people the way I described certainly would show nobility of character
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorette View Post
That might signal somebody who is very insecure and looking for love or at least attention in this way. I do not think that a person with this kind of problematic is a very good choice to raise a family with in the public eye. That does not mean that I look down on people like Sophia.
I agree with you here. I certainly do not look down on Sofia but the attention-seeking tendencies she displayed in the past are indeed the big issue.
To be fair, maybe it was just a phase she has grown out of.
For example, Prince Harry's girlfriend Chelsy was quoted at the beginning as saying she wanted to be famous, and she was also trashed because she didn't fit the image people had of a royal girlfriend or princess. Six years on and she has proved a totally loyal and discreet girlfriend and is very accomplished in her own right.
Sofia may surprise us (although I am not holding my breath, does she even have a degree?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
This trend of Royals marrying just whoever the hell they want-no matter how unsuitable-as long as they are "IN LOVE" might appear romantic on the surface...but I cannot be the only Royalty watcher who is noticing a trend...there are commoners and then there are COMMON commoners...
Fully agreed.
I don't think Sofia deserves all the nastiness poured on her, but I'm not looking forward to her marrying CP either.
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  #324  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
and waited and finally she could talk her father into allowing marriage
Let´s replace "father" by "Daniel" and let´s delete "allowing" and I am in your boat
  #325  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
Its wery possible. 2 of 4 princes to Gustav VI Adolf married without concent and lost their titles. ...
And one still married the girl he didn't get allowed to, just waited some 30years (pretty much living with her) until the next king approved.

So judging from the last crop of Bernadotte pribnces, the alternatives if the King don't agree on your chose girl is:
1) Marry anyway and lose the title
2) Waited until the next king (stills seeing the girl during the time)
The third alternative to leave the girl don't seem to have been practiced by Bernadottes the last 2/3 of a century.
  #326  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:48 AM
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The forum The Royal Truth has a link to the nude pics of Sofia posted through a Spanish forum. I looked at the pictures and they're not too shocking, more like a Playboy spread. That type of need to seek admiration (and money) doesn't show a private person, in my opinion, which is how CP's family like to conduct their personal lives. So I can see why everyone is hesitant to accept her as being actually attracted to him for him and not personal fame and attention. Let's say they are both in love with each other and do decide to make it more serious: she is going to have to work extra extra hard to win all of Sweden's approval. So, to all the Swedish posters: how does everyone you know think of this relationship?
  #327  
Old 07-25-2010, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ortino View Post
The forum The Royal Truth has a link to the nude pics of Sofia posted through a Spanish forum. I looked at the pictures and they're not too shocking, more like a Playboy spread. That type of need to seek admiration (and money) doesn't show a private person, in my opinion, which is how CP's family like to conduct their personal lives. So I can see why everyone is hesitant to accept her as being actually attracted to him for him and not personal fame and attention. Let's say they are both in love with each other and do decide to make it more serious: she is going to have to work extra extra hard to win all of Sweden's approval. So, to all the Swedish posters: how does everyone you know think of this relationship?
Carl-Philips relationsships arent that intresting to talk about like the fairytale that ended in a marriage or Madeleines badboys. Atleast not until know. Most of my relatives havent talked much about his relationships, most still think he is gay. My parents feel sorry for Sofia about all the negative press.

Hey Baberiba and they negative picture of Carl-Philip have made the swedish people feeling sorry for him so i guess most people dont want to see what a small minority, that is growing, think of her, namely a golddigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by janb View Post
And one still married the girl he didn't get allowed to, just waited some 30years (pretty much living with her) until the next king approved.

So judging from the last crop of Bernadotte pribnces, the alternatives if the King don't agree on your chose girl is:
1) Marry anyway and lose the title
2) Waited until the next king (stills seeing the girl during the time)
The third alternative to leave the girl don't seem to have been practiced by Bernadottes the last 2/3 of a century.

To be fair to Bertil and Lilian. Bertil actually asked the kings premission, but she was divorced and it would be to much of a scandal if they were to marry. He then thought of loosing his title and marry her anyway. Unfortunally for him the crownprince died and the new crownprince was less than a year so they pleeded to him that he could wait for Carl Gustav to reach the age of the majority and gotten a wife and then he could marry. Prince Bertil was actually the crownprince in a way after Gustav VI Adolf died since Carl XVI Gustav didnt have any heirs. Had the king died before 1995 Bertil would have been the heir until Victoria was 18.
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"My feelings are all over the place." Prince Daniel express his feelings after announcing the birth of his daughter Estelle Silvia Ewa Mary
  #328  
Old 07-25-2010, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
To be fair to Bertil and Lilian. Bertil actually asked the kings premission, but she was divorced and it would be to much of a scandal if they were to marry. He then thought of loosing his title and marry her anyway. Unfortunally for him the crownprince died and the new crownprince was less than a year so they pleeded to him that he could wait for Carl Gustav to reach the age of the majority and gotten a wife and then he could marry. Prince Bertil was actually the crownprince in a way after Gustav VI Adolf died since Carl XVI Gustav didnt have any heirs. Had the king died before 1995 Bertil would have been the heir until Victoria was 18.
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Their love story is fantastic and they have sacrified a lot (a child)
But it doesn´t change janbs point. None of the Bernadotte Princes was changing his mind and was saying "goodbye" to the woman
E.g. Bertil would have helped Carl Gustaf a lot, if he would have married a princess and would have gotten 2 sons with her.
So CG would have lost the status of the "golden child"
What Bertil did was great nonetheless, but it wasn´t the maximum out of a dynastic point of view.

As it seems only a female Bernadotte was giving up her love for a more fitting match. Princess Birgitta.


Quote:
most still think he is gay.
Oh once again.
The fascinating thing about a girl like Sofia is, that she could be both. Ultimate proof or ultimate denial.
  #329  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:37 PM
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The story of Lilian and Betril is a great example of doing something for someone other than yourself IMO. And its another striking example of how the older generation value people, traditions more than they value their own personal happiness. It certainly makes Queen Mary's disgust with Edward VIII choosing love with Wallis over his duties as King. To paraphrase her, men died for their country (in WWI) making the ultimate sacrifice and you can't give up this woman?

I, for one, don't know much about Carl Philip or where this relationship is going...but I do wonder if given the choice between being Prince of Sweden or marrying this girl which way he will turn. Its one thing to be a waitress, of non royal blood, to have a child out of wedlock but to have posed nude? Whether or not you think nudity is an expression of art or just being tacky, I think the concept of knowing what a princess looks like nude is losing the allure of royalty. While I certainly think that royals are like us, in a way they are not like us, because if they are, then what's the point? I hope that makes sense.
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  #330  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:49 PM
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First of all, I dont think that Carl Philip has any plans to get married and I dont think that Sofia is pursuing this idea either. They have fun together, so what. CP doesnt strike me as a settling down person anyway, he is rather a playboy type like his father when he was young, attracted to good looking women and fast cars. Luckily he is unimportant enough to be able to afford such a life.

If he planned to marry Sofia indeed, why not. After the fitness instructor, the Swedish Kings will also survive a pin up girl. But poor Sofia must be prepared to be confronted with her naked past for the rest of her life and possibly be sneered by society what isnt nice. When looking at her, I dont think she wants such a life. Being a celebrity for a little while with a good looking rich and royal guy by her side will do for her, no need to live the consequences.
  #331  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:52 PM
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DoM these are valid points....she can certainly use this (if she so inclines) to take her fame to the next level. For all we know, she could be CP's Koo Stark. A girl with a questionable past, who dates the Prince, it ends and they remain life long friends. And that is the end of story...except every time she does something (marries, has a baby, etc) its part of tabloid fodder. She will always be known as the girl who posed nude and dated Carl Philip.
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  #332  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
After the fitness instructor, the Swedish Kings will also survive a pin up girl.
Daniel wasn´t just a fitness instructor, he was also the CEO and Board Director at Balance (three gyms), the CEO and Board Director at Master Training and a Board Member at the Brasil Development.
  #333  
Old 07-25-2010, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Daniel wasn´t just a fitness instructor, he was also the CEO and Board Director at Balance (three gyms), the CEO and Board Director at Master Training and a Board Member at the Brasil Development.
9 years of waiting are a long time and a good opportunity to spice up the CV when trying to convince the in-laws. Chances are good that in 9 years' time Sofia will not be a pin up girl anymore but the CEO of her own model agency
  #334  
Old 07-25-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
The story of Lilian and Betril is a great example of doing something for someone other than yourself IMO. And its another striking example of how the older generation value people, traditions more than they value their own personal happiness. It certainly makes Queen Mary's disgust with Edward VIII choosing love with Wallis over his duties as King. To paraphrase her, men died for their country (in WWI) making the ultimate sacrifice and you can't give up this woman?

I, for one, don't know much about Carl Philip or where this relationship is going...but I do wonder if given the choice between being Prince of Sweden or marrying this girl which way he will turn. Its one thing to be a waitress, of non royal blood, to have a child out of wedlock but to have posed nude? Whether or not you think nudity is an expression of art or just being tacky, I think the concept of knowing what a princess looks like nude is losing the allure of royalty. While I certainly think that royals are like us, in a way they are not like us, because if they are, then what's the point? I hope that makes sense.

The first paragraph of your post very succinctly SAYS IT ALL. This is a crucial difference between the current crop of Royals and their forebears...me and my personal fulfillment FIRST...responsibility and duty afterword.

I think it is also a key reason why most of the European Royal dynasties will be off their thrones in a generation or so, as more and more of their subjects question having Kings, Queens, princes, etc who are no different at all than they are.
  #335  
Old 07-25-2010, 04:05 PM
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The informationschef of the swedish court, Nina Eldh, has today commented the republishing of the nude photos of Sofia Hellqvist. She said that it is regrettable to exploit a young woman's past life and use that she has a relationship with the prince.
Hovet om bilderna på prinsens Sofia - Nyheter - Senaste nytt | Expressen
Google Translate
  #336  
Old 07-25-2010, 04:11 PM
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The Swedish court is right to a point, but if you pose for pictures and then date someone well known than you have to get used to it.

For the rest of her life, she will be the girl who posed nude and dated Carl Phillip.
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  #337  
Old 07-25-2010, 04:20 PM
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I have a feeling the Court is somehow going to stop having any of the pictures published, although the magazine has every right to publish them. I guess Sofia will have to hold her head up high, but I really don't think this will change her relationship with CP and his parents. They already know all about her past.
I don't think Koo Stark was ever presented to the Queen and Prince Philip in reply to an above post, so this relationship does seem to be legit, and is getting serious rather quickly! I predict an engagement by next year.
  #338  
Old 07-25-2010, 04:36 PM
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Not to slight the Swedish court but this has more to do withe the parities involved. For example, I believe the Swedish court is more relaxed than the British court as well as the parents, Elizabeth is old school and that is reflected in the relationship she has with her children. While I think CG and Silivia are more relaxed and have a totally different relationship with their kids.

I don't they will get engaged within a year. Now is she starts showing up at family dinners, etc..then maybe but I doubt that.
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  #339  
Old 07-25-2010, 04:45 PM
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I don't they will get engaged within a year. Now is she starts showing up at family dinners, etc..then maybe but I doubt that.[/QUOTE]
I hope so, that way she can at least work on her princess skills more. But do you think the Swedish Court is capable of stopping the release of the photos? I mean, the pictures of Mette-Marit partying were never published, and the Swedes seem to take lawsuits very seriously: remember when they kept suing the German Tabloids? Could they do it for Sofia also, as CP is linked to her?
  #340  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Its one thing to be a waitress, of non royal blood, to have a child out of wedlock but to have posed nude?
You forgot the hard drugs.
At least, when you pose nude you're not indirectly supporting every illegal trade under the sun from child slavery to terrorism.
Quote:
While I certainly think that royals are like us, in a way they are not like us, because if they are, then what's the point? I hope that makes sense.
It makes total sense.
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