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  #301  
Old 07-24-2010, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Sofia lacks dignity? How so? Is that because she posed nude?
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that. Some people will never get over those pictures and will use them to judge her character and values, other (such as me), won't ever understand what the fuss is about because to them, having dignity is about how you treat people: how loyal you are to those who matter to you, how civil you are to strangers, how respectful to your elders and how compassionate to those in need.

I fail to see how getting your kit off for a photo-shoot is in any way relevant here.
Dignity is not only about how you treat others (btw many people thinks Sofia called the paparazzi to make her story with CP publc, that's not treating your bf fairly..), but also how you treat yourself. Those pictures, the partecipation to reality programs, the businesses with paparazzi show that she has not respect for her personality and her body: some aspects of everyone life and body should be private and treated with respect. She hasn't done so.
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  #302  
Old 07-24-2010, 09:30 PM
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^how you treat others and how you treat yourself is intimately linked. You can't respect other people if you don't respect yourself.

Posing nude is not abusing your body. I find it ridiculous to suggest that.
Some people are more private and secretive than others but everything depends on how you feel and where are your personal boundaries. I personally would never do things like posing nude for a magazine or frequent a nudist beach, because that's out of bound for me, but I'm certainly not making moral judgements on people who choose to do these things. Unless she was coerced, fell to peer-pressure or was drug-adled when she took those pictures, who are you to say she does not respect herself?

I am far more put off by the reality-show, always a trashy thing to get involved in (but then even then she doesn't seem to have behaved in a scandalous manner in it. Or did she?). The paparazzi tipping rumor, if true, is indeed very worrying. Imo it would be a better indicator of the kind of person she is, and would reflect much more badly on her than any nude pictures.
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  #303  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorette View Post
Why, if she will have no responsabilities and duties, should the swedish people pay her - and her offspring - a luxurious lifestyle? The Sarkozys are elected for a limited timespan and his children will have to make a living on their own (though I'm sure he will see that it is eased a bit by his connections....) The swiss view on the Sarkozys is that he is a ridiculous narcisstic man and she is an equally narcissistic aging beauty who took the last chance for yet another cup full of fame and page one on the glossy magazines. But indeed she was a model of some standing and the nude pictures of her where by first class photographers and not just cheap centrefold stuff.
It's got nothing to do with the human body being dirty or whatever, but the heads of a community should have a bit of dignity or the people themselves will loose it, or will loose patience with them. So no, I think she cannot be princess in a serious monarchy, because she lacks dignity.
I think that prince CP would be better off anyway if he had to earn a living, it might change him from a boy of thirtysomething into a man who is more than just a pretty face in an uniform. In that respect, backrow royals and models are the same, all they have to do is to be photogenic. Maybe that is what they got in common?
I totally agree. Royalty is supossed to be classy and present a good image for their country. If they're just going to act like trash, why have a royal family and why should the taxpayers have to pay for it?

Luckily, even if CP did marry Sophia, she will NEVER be a princess - she would only be a dutchess. Only the first born's spouse gets a prince or princess title (in this case Victoria's husband). Whoever CP and Madeline marry will only get a duke or dutchess title. Don't you remember when Madeline was engaged it was made clear that her then-fiance would only be a duke?

So if Sophia thinks she's gonna be a princess, she better think again.
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  #304  
Old 07-25-2010, 04:23 AM
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IMO reality shows and public nude pictures which are not exactly of the artistic kind give the same message: I'll do anything to get into the public eye, into the press!
That might signal somebody who is very insecure and looking for love or at least attention in this way. I do not think that a person with this kind of problematic is a very good choice to raise a family with in the public eye. That does not mean that I look down on people like Sophia. But to me it seems that a royal family should present some kind of ideal. What else would their use be? Again, why should CP, his parents and sisters receive money from the swedish people? After having seen the wedding I am sure that Viktoria is a huge benefit for the country, and that is due to her hard work and not just her position. Live as a royal in the second line might be a trifle boring for a healthy young man like CP, hence the fast boats and cars and ladies. But if the swedish people should decide that they don't want to pay the bill, he would have to look for some kind of job, would he not? And I doubt if the population of several countries will go on to peacefully watch how they get poorer and some are having a decadent high life.
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  #305  
Old 07-25-2010, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne83 View Post
Carl Philip dates the wrong women Sophie or Emma aren't suitable
He must respect the Monarchy and choose a Princess Maybe Princess Beatrice of York or Theodora of Greece or Alexandra of Louxembourg
Be smart, CP
Well, I agree that Sofia isn't a smart choice, but I don't get why Emma was not suitable for you? Because of the fact she is a commoner? Then Letizia, Mary, Maxima and Daniel should be not suitable as well.

Personally I found Emma a really nice woman :)
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  #306  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedDial View Post

Luckily, even if CP did marry Sophia, she will NEVER be a princess - she would only be a dutchess. Only the first born's spouse gets a prince or princess title (in this case Victoria's husband). Whoever CP and Madeline marry will only get a duke or dutchess title. Don't you remember when Madeline was engaged it was made clear that her then-fiance would only be a duke?

So if Sophia thinks she's gonna be a princess, she better think again.
Where does it say so?

In Spain the husbands of the infantas didn´t become "princes", in the Netherlands and Denmark the wives of the second and third born princes became princesses.

Partners of princes and princesses are obviously not equally ranked.

But these days Monarchs allow commoners as partners and their children can keep all titles and Sweden (and most European Monarchies) have equal primogeniture. So Madeleine is only by age lower ranked than Carl Philip.

In other words it´s all up to the Monarch, how he want to handle it.

The more old-fashioned traditional form would be to make Carl Philip´s wife a prince, the more equal form would be to make her a Duchess (and thanks to rat Bernström, we already know "Duke" would be the king´s way for Madeleine´s partner)

Daniel got all possible titles, Jonas would have gotten Duke (while Tord Magnusson got nothing, but Lilian "HRH" and "Princess")
So obviously the king is going for "more is more" and he is IMO also a conservative man and as we know he wasn´t not all happy about Carl Philip having been crown prince for 6 months only.
So if Carl Philip would find a decent popular woman, she would become princess, me thinks.
If it would be Sofia, he would (and should) go with Duchess.
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  #307  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
I don't find the picture remotely shocking. It's not pornography and there is nothing dirty or vile about a naked body (whatever the church may say) . It's actually an improvement over the snake picture because at least she isn't covered in yellow grease.
Carla Bruni has done far more explicit pictures (her full-frontal nudes are all over the internet).

I do agree with the posters who don't want to see her as a princess. I disapprove of her for the same reasons I disapprove of some other royal girlfriends and wives (too common and lackluster, brings nothing to the table, no charisma, etc.) .
However I have no issue with her nude pictures, and I certainly won't judge her character and intelligence based on that.
I can only discuss the Roman Catholic Church, of which I am a practicing member...the Church has NEVER EVER condemned the naked human body as dirty or sinful and I defy anyone to produce proof that it has.

The Catholic Church does indeed condemn pornography..which is something quite different from mere nudity since it involves the exploitation of human beings for cheap sexual fulfillment and is a perversion of something basic, good and beautiful...human sexuality.

I am afraid that if HM the King does not put his foot down and insist that Carl-Philip ditch this young lady soon, the future of the Swedish Royal House is going to be on shaky ground.
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  #308  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
I am afraid that if HM the King does not put his foot down and insist that Carl-Philip ditch this young lady soon, the future of the Swedish Royal House is going to be on shaky ground.
Putting a foot down would just provoke "We against the world"
In the case of Carl Philip, who still seems so unsure about his future, and who doesn´t give me any "daddy & husband vibes" yet, it would be maybe a lot wiser to say "Marry her in spring!!!"
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  #309  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne83 View Post
Carl Philip dates the wrong women Sophie or Emma aren't suitable
He must respect the Monarchy and choose a Princess Maybe Princess Beatrice of York or Theodora of Greece or Alexandra of Louxembourg
Be smart, CP
Why aren't Sofia and Emma suitable? What was wrong with Emma more importantly?
Why must he choose a Princess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amedea View Post
I mean that a prince of a royal family that is a minimum serious do not marry girls like Sofia unless he renounce his position.
Why do people like CP not marry "girls like Sofia".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalbooks View Post

Personally I found Emma a really nice woman :)
So did I, she was a wonderful candidate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

I am afraid that if HM the King does not put his foot down and insist that Carl-Philip ditch this young lady soon, the future of the Swedish Royal House is going to be on shaky ground.
Why must the King tell his 31 year old son, not to marry this girl? He has no right to do that. It is CP's choice who he marries, not his fathers.
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  #310  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Why do people like CP not marry "girls like Sofia".
Because there will always remain the question, if she wanted the prince or the money&fame.

Anne83 is obviously for princes marrying princesses. A highly doubtful model, as we know in our modern times with lots of knowledge on genetics.
On the other hand I like the idea of Royal-Royal marriage as some "change" as well and for one generation, it wouldn´t be a problem as a pool of "new genes" came into most Royal houses in the past years. But it´s NO model, one should wish back permanently.

Quote:
So did I, she was a wonderful candidate.
Well, since she is still mingling in upperclass circles, one part of me is thinking "give her the benefit of a doubt, she was so young and this is the only circle she has in Sthlm", while an other one is thinking, she used the prince. The last part is also fed by the impression, that the "sparks" in their relationship seemed to have disappeared very fast, but here also his family might have played a role.
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  #311  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola View Post
Because there will always remain the question, if she wanted the prince or the money&fame.

Anne83 is obviously for princes marrying princesses. A highly doubtful model, as we know in our modern times with lots of knowledge on genetics.
On the other hand I like the idea of Royal-Royal marriage as some "change" as well and for one generation, it wouldn´t be a problem as a pool of "new genes" came into most Royal houses in the past years. But it´s NO model, one should wish back permanently.
That could be said for every princess who has married into a royal family though?
I would be in favour for princes marrying princess' but the current generation of royals seem to have sturdy relationships with commoners.
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  #312  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:48 AM
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I hope he does not marry her. This trend of Royals marrying just whoever the hell they want-no matter how unsuitable-as long as they are "IN LOVE" might appear romantic on the surface...but I cannot be the only Royalty watcher who is noticing a trend...there are commoners and then there are COMMON commoners...and meanwhile the anti-monarchic pro Republican grumbling grows louder and louder by the year.

As well it should...why should people want to pay taxes, support and respect a Royal Family where a reality TV starlet is now a Royal duchess?

I am sorry, but being a member of a Royal family involves privilege AS WELL AS responsibility. These people are supposed to provide a visible link to the country's history and national identity. As snobbish as it sounds, just because you are attracted to someone or even in love with them...that does not mean they would be suitable as a Royal spouse.

Where does it end??
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  #313  
Old 07-25-2010, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
That could be said for every princess who has married into a royal family though?
You mean commoners becoming princesses?
Sure and with the exception of Mathilde and maybe Laurentien, every princess seems to have "anti-fans", who think she just went for the fame and money.
But with Sofia it´s an other dimension. She was a docu soap starlet. Usually pariticipants are known for their "craving of recognition"
She might the nicest modest girl on earth and might deeply regret, she was participating in the show, but so far people can´t see this at all.
You give her the benefit of a doubt and this is nice and wise, but for every Lumutqueen Svensson, you will find 10 anti-Sofia Svenssons.
She has a long way ahead.
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  #314  
Old 07-25-2010, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
having dignity is about how you treat people: how loyal you are to those who matter to you, how civil you are to strangers, how respectful to your elders and how compassionate to those in need.
Dictionary.com:

dig·ni·ty
   /ˈdɪgti/ Show Spelled[dig-ni-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties. 1. bearing, conduct, or speech indicative of self-respect or appreciation of the formality or gravity of an occasion or situation.

2. nobility or elevation of character; worthiness: dignity of sentiments.

3. elevated rank, office, station, etc.

4. relative standing; rank.

5. a sign or token of respect: an impertinent question unworthy of the dignity of an answer.

6. Archaic . a. person of high rank or title.

b. such persons collectively.
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  #315  
Old 07-25-2010, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Why must the King tell his 31 year old son, not to marry this girl? He has no right to do that. It is CP's choice who he marries, not his fathers.
That is true, but as his father is the King, he has the right to protect the monarchy and the image of the family.
On the other hand, King Harald of Norway didn't interfere with the choice if his son.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola View Post
Anne83 is obviously for princes marrying princesses. A highly doubtful model, as we know in our modern times with lots of knowledge on genetics.
On the other hand I like the idea of Royal-Royal marriage as some "change" as well and for one generation, it wouldn´t be a problem as a pool of "new genes" came into most Royal houses in the past years. But it´s NO model, one should wish back permanently.
I believe a lot of royalty-watchers and fans would love a Royal-Royal wedding, but I think the majority of the people couldn't care less...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
That could be said for every princess who has married into a royal family though?
Certainly true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola View Post
You mean commoners becoming princesses?
Sure and with the exception of Mathilde and maybe Laurentien, every princess seems to have "anti-fans", who think she just went for the fame and money.
But with Sofia it´s an other dimension. She was a docu soap starlet. Usually pariticipants are known for their "craving of recognition"
She might the nicest modest girl on earth and might deeply regret, she was participating in the show, but so far people can´t see this at all.
You give her the benefit of a doubt and this is nice and wise, but for every Lumutqueen Svensson, you will find 10 anti-Sofia Svenssons.
She has a long way ahead.
A very long way. Even when she pulls a 'Mette-Marit', people will have trouble believing her, I think. It is easier to forgive someone for having a wild time, then someone who got on television purely for attention.
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  #316  
Old 07-25-2010, 06:42 AM
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On the swedish undergroundforum Flashback there is a thread about Sofia. The main question about her is how she managed to survive in NY because her Yogacenter apperantly werent that successfull. It is also rumoured in her thread that her mother was an escort in the 80ths. Those two items have now been tied to eachother with a lot of winks

Most people still want Carl-Philip to get back together with Emma Pernald than be with this girl. Sofia is seen in Sweden by a lot of people as a golddigger. Appart from the pictures in Slitz she have also taken part of the docusoap Paradise Hotel(Big Brother in the tropics) and that also is against her. The court have begun the propagandawar on her behalf to make her look good enough for Carl-Philip to marry

Many people had trouble with Daniel Westling in the begining also, i have to admitt that i wasnt completly 100 % won over on his side until they got engaged. I was still negative to Victoria going out with him up to around 2004, but hey, that was because i thought he stole her from me and that should have taken me instead, up to 04-05 i actually dressed better than Daniel. It took 7 years and a speach at the weddingfor Daniel to get accepted by most swedes, it will take more than one speach for Sofia to get fully accepted.

Unfortunally there arent that many royal princesses avalible in Carl-Philips age that he isnt related to.
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  #317  
Old 07-25-2010, 07:26 AM
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Just wondering- if they did a 'Victoria and Daniel' to prove they were serious and waited a few years do you think some people against Sofia would begin to change their minds? On the other hand, Haakon and Mette-Marit married less than 2 years after dating, I think?
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  #318  
Old 07-25-2010, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
A very long way. Even when she pulls a 'Mette-Marit', people will have trouble believing her, I think. It is easier to forgive someone for having a wild time, then someone who got on television purely for attention.

it will take more than one speach for Sofia to get fully accepted.
Indeed. A problem with docu soaps is, that people believe to know you very well at the end of the show.

Quote:
Just wondering- if they did a 'Victoria and Daniel' to prove they were serious and waited a few years do you think some people against Sofia would begin to change their minds? On the other hand, Haakon and Mette-Marit married less than 2 years after dating, I think?
Difficult to say. In the case of Kate Middleton many say, that she is so obsessed with the throne and title, that she is clinging to William like a cat to a mouse.
But an whirlwind engagement between an A celeb and a Z celeb is always causing mistrust. Kind of "won´t last, someone wanna climb and cash ASAP"
I guess it would all depend on her behaviour as fiancée
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  #319  
Old 07-25-2010, 08:15 AM
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Is it still possible for a Swedish prince to do not receive permission to marry and so to loose the rights by marrying? And who gives this permission, if needed? The King or the Parliament?
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  #320  
Old 07-25-2010, 08:45 AM
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I'm sorry, I don't follow CP's current events or love life. Is this relationship with Sophia serious? Because many of you are talking about marriage these days. What's going on? Did she really meet the King and Queen?
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