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  #2081  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:13 PM
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You can think its bad all you want. The problem is writing off a woman forever because of it, especially when it seems she is trying to better herself.
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  #2082  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:36 PM
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At the end of the day it dosn't really matter what we all think of this girl as an individual. But if Royal families are going to exist then they have to adhere to high standards otherwise what's the point of them. If a Princess has posed nude in mens magazines for example what kind of respect will that garner? I think we all know the answer to that one.
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  #2083  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:41 PM
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but thats exactly that issue, i think its only a fake image shes building up. but its just my opinion and i might be wrong too because i dont know her in person but...well you dont know her too.
i just dont put my hands on fire for people i dont know.
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  #2084  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:49 PM
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Well, I think here's much ado about nothing in fact. A man fell in love with a woman,even he's a prince,it's his choice and life. I don't see any sense in either criticizing severly or praysing/justifying Sophia. I think too that the image they try to build now is rather fake, but it doesn't mean that there are no hypocrites among well-educated ladies.
Only future will tell if their match could be considered really happy and prince's choice right,like in any other case.
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  #2085  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:50 PM
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Your discussion today really entertains me, but it leaves one question unanswered. Why is it okay to compare Sofias current situation with the past situation of Vanessa Williams but everyone starts screaming bloody murder if anyone dares to compare her to the past situation of Mette-Marit? Or Maxima? Or Letizia? Can anyone give me an answer to that? Because it's clearly to much for my poor little brain.
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Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #2086  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
Your discussion today really entertains me, but it leaves one question unanswered. Why is it okay to compare Sofias current situation with the past situation of Vanessa Williams but everyone starts screaming bloody murder if anyone dares to compare her to the past situation of Mette-Marit? Or Maxima? Or Letizia? Can anyone give me an answer to that? Because it's clearly to much for my poor little brain.
I see nothing wrong in comparing Sophia's past situation and that of other princesses. In fact nobody is saint. But what's the purpose of comparisons?
Usually comparisons are hurtful in this meaning of past.
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  #2087  
Old 02-13-2012, 09:24 PM
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It happens here on a regular basis that someone compares Sofiaswith Mette Marit (nude fotos vs drug use) to show that someone definitel can change and move on from the past. I did it myself a few times to show that MM used drugs(which is a crime) while Sofia only posed nude (which is just embaressing at the most but not a crime) and MM gets respected now for what she does while Sofia apparently won't get any respect in 5, 10 or even 15 years from now when she really marries CP because she once posed nude. And that's clearly not okay. But everytime when it comes to this the mods or some users pop up and say that we are not allowed to compare Sofia with MM or any other princess for some reason or another. Mostly because this isn't a thread about MM or whomever. That's why I asked why it's okay to bring VW into this. Because this clearly also isn't athread about VW.
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I'm a firm supporter of fair chance's.
Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #2088  
Old 02-13-2012, 09:41 PM
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well i think the apple does not fall too far from the tree. i don't think its a surprise he was attracted to her and her past.

considering his father and all the sordid allegations of his behavior affairs strip clubs and sex parties .. so why are people up in arms when he dates a former nude model and reality star. and its not like his father can condemn him .the king is in a weak position what can he say?

so because of the kings own personal weakness Sweden will probably get a former nude/bikini model reality star princess but hey if they love each other and are happy who cares. soon Victoria will have her baby and then hopefully a couple more

... and no one will care much about CP and Madeleine and who they marry and involve themselves with
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  #2089  
Old 02-13-2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doric44 View Post
well i think the apple does not fall too far from the tree. i don't think its a surprise he was attracted to her and her past.

considering his father and all the sordid allegations of his behavior affairs strip clubs and sex parties .. so why are people up in arms when he dates a former nude model and reality star. and its not like his father can condemn him .the king is in a weak position what can he say?

so because of the kings own personal weakness Sweden will probably get a former nude/bikini model reality star princess but hey if they love each other and are happy who cares. soon Victoria will have her baby and then hopefully a couple more

... and no one will care much about CP and Madeleine and who they marry and involve themselves with
This sums up everything I think. If Sweden is OK with having Sofia as their next Princess, then who are non-Swedes to complain? It's their monarchy.
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  #2090  
Old 02-13-2012, 10:54 PM
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Whatever rumors are going about about the King the one fact is that he married a beautiful, charming and respectable woman who didn't have a questionable past and made her his queen. So how exactly is that anything like Carl Philip and Sofia? I guess it's just selective memory in trying to bash Carl Philip and his father in one sentence.
I do see a comparison between Sofia and Mette-Marit, but I don't really get the Letizia comparison; I admit I know little about her or her past but from what I do know she had a respectable job in the news industry. And I recall the problems with Maxima had more to do with her father than her.
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  #2091  
Old 02-13-2012, 11:09 PM
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If a woman has dated a prince or royal for a long period of time, if they had serious baggage or had done something really bad, it would have come out. Someone would be looking into their past, especially if the couple has been dating or involved with each other for a long time.

A woman who has been involved with a prince or royal who doesn't have anything in their past come out after a long period of dating or being a couple, probably doesn't have anything really bad in their past. I'm sure that there are things they have probably done in their past that they aren't proud of, but it doesn't rise to the level of being an issue or being scandalous. Minor things perhaps.

If Sofia Hellqvist marries Prince Carl, she will have to prove to others that she's worthy to be a princess. Other non-royal women whose past has been less filled with scandal have had to do the same.
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  #2092  
Old 02-14-2012, 12:18 AM
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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
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  #2093  
Old 02-14-2012, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandma828
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Please don't put religion in this.

She who wants to date a prince shall come under scrutiny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal

The difference being that the pageant organization at the time did not "fire" Vanessa Williams. She, upon the advice of her manager/attorney and family recognized that remaining in the role of Miss America would do harm to the title and organization. I'm sure there must have been pressure from the organization but she herself stated that she chose to give up her title. Sofia on the other hand choose to behave as if the choices she made in her life do not have consequences and impact on her current situation.

In addition, it took quite a while for Vanessa Williams to "rehab" her reputation, even with successful album sales and work in the industry she faced years of criticism and prejudice...and she actually had TALENT!

-------------------------------------

Actually she is a perfect example to compare to Sofia. Both made regrettable choices at a very young age to pose nude for a photographer. Vanessa, who was at least 18 at the time of the photo shoot, claims that she never signed a waiver for their publication (facts which were verified when Hugh Hefner was initially offered them and declined because "...they clearly weren't authorized...") and never intended for them to appear in Penthouse. Sofia, who was 15 or 16 on at least some of the topless photo shoots, knew that these would be at least published in a portfolio and has stated that she wanted a modeling career.

Vanessa was in college at the time of her photo shoot studying music performance. She went on to win the Miss America crown and - prior to the photos being published - received hate mail and death threats...purely because she was African-American. Even though she resigned her title and did not complete her duties, the pageant organization still officially recognizes her and she remains popular and iconic in the pageant world.

Four years after her photos were published and relinquishing her title, Williams released her first album. Three years later her second album went to #1, and while continuing her recording career she expanded her acting career in feature films and now on television.

--------------------------------------------

Sofia, who ironically was born the same year Williams' photos were published, dropped out of high school. Approximately four or five years after her first topless photo shoot, Sofia posed for the now famous boa constrictor photos and became Miss Slitz 2004. The following year she appeared in the reality program Paradise Hotel and then moved to New York to live with a married man and studied to become a yoga teacher. She "tweeted" about making out with porn star Jenna Jameson during a visit to Las Vegas. She used that same method of communication when she later met and began a relationship with CP when she tweeted "I'm dating the prince!" Since June of last year she has been living with him.


It is difficult to compare the two women because even at a casual glance Vanessa is MUCH more talented and accomplished. Even when comparing their cv's at the same age, Sofia falls far short. IMO Sofia is not ugly but her makeup and styling choices until recently have been rather trashy. And now, because to keep her position secure she has tried to alter her image to appear respectable. There is nothing wrong with that other than the fact that is artificial. What was wrong with being respectable before? Her lack of education notwithstanding, Sofia does not appear to be an idiot. Why then choose of path to fame by posing semi-nude? Maybe because she didn't have anything else to offer? While Vanessa may have been dishonest on her pageant application and made the unfortunate choice of posing in the first place, she has consistently - even from a very young age - presented herself in a very elegant manner, and subsequently in her life with a great deal of dignity.

Even so, it is now almost 30 years since Vanessa's "scandal" broke. And while it isn't mentioned in every television interview or live appearance - the photos, and the consequences of her choices are mentioned in almost every written article about her. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure she doesn't get through an entire year of her life without someone mentioning it or asking her about it.

So if a former Miss America who is generally viewed as beautiful, talented, intelligent, elegant, good mother, etc. has the information about her "disgrace" regularly mentioned in reference to her almost 30 years later - then what can be expected in 30 years for Sofia if she maintains her relationship with CP? Even the discussion of Sofia's work with charity has hints of scandal both for her motives (only doing it to be seen as "acceptable") and her actions (having charitable donations deposited into her personal bank account). Based on results so far, she only seems to be changing superficial things without doing anything to truly better herself as a person. She appears to only do things to meet her originally stated aspiration of being "famous". It's like putting a fresh coat of paint on a house and not dealing with plumbing leaks and cracked walls on the inside.

An internet search brings up Sofia's nude and semi-nude images from the last ten years. If things stay as they are, 30 years from now they will be readily available, just as Vanessa's photos from 30 years ago are.
Once again...round of applause!! Well said:)

At least Vanessa Williams showed remorse for her decisions. Sofia seemed to like her past just fine before she met the prince and now all of a sudden she's on damage control (charity, etc). If that doesn't tell you the type of person she is I don't know what does.
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  #2094  
Old 02-14-2012, 06:41 AM
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You can accept her or not. Either way it is not our decision and it seems she is here to stay. Might as well have a positive attitude about who she is now, as opposed t
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  #2095  
Old 02-14-2012, 06:42 AM
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...o past mistakes. I've which I've many!!'
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  #2096  
Old 02-14-2012, 09:13 AM
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but it doesnt mean we are obligated to like her, one thing is accepting (we have no choice), but other thing is to like her. im sure there are people out there who dislike Mette Marit but have come to accept her, same goes for Sofia, if she marries CP many will hate her, bash her but will eventually accept her.
not matter what, Victoria will be soon having a baby (heir) and that means that ALL Swedish media and people will give their attention towards that, even if Sofia gets to be a princess, she will be irrelevant, as Victoria is the main protagonist (favourite member of the swedish royal family by far) and soon her baby and all those that will come after that.
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  #2097  
Old 02-14-2012, 09:21 AM
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MM and Sofia cannot be compared, one will be Queen, the other, even as the wife of CP, is not important at all.

If there is a marriage and CG is smart, he will give Sofia a title HH (and not HRH) Duchess of Värmland and thats it. Siimilar to the husbands of the Spanish infantas. If the marriage goes bust, she is Sofia H. again.

There is a trend to keep Royal Houses small going forward (see Sverre Magnus as spare to IA not even he has the HRH title) therefore this would make sense (similar for Madeleine's future husband).
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  #2098  
Old 02-14-2012, 10:45 AM
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When I first read about the change in succession laws that were passed in the 70's I thought it was really unfair to CP, now, phew... I cannot imagine what would happen if Sophia were to be Crown princess
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  #2099  
Old 02-14-2012, 10:54 AM
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Chances are the Sofia would not be in the picture if the succession laws were not made retroactive to Victoria's birth. The two eldest siblings - Victoria and Carl Philip - would have been raised differently, Carl Philip would have been 'groomed' to be King from the get go. He wouldn't have been flitting through his adult life at university and car races as long as he has - he would have had the same, possibly even more dedicated, education/training that Victoria was given. If Carl Philip was Crown Prince, I'm also sure that had he entered into a relationship with Sofia, it would have been shut down quite quickly after the nude photos came to light. Marriage would be 95% out of the question.

Basically, IMO we can't say 'Thank god Sofia won't be Crown Princess because of the succession changes!' because everything in Carl Philip's life would have been different (well, except maybe being mummy's favourite boy).
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  #2100  
Old 02-14-2012, 03:21 PM
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Sofia (and Carl Philip in one photo) at the charity dinner and auction of Project Playground in Borås, 20th January.
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6853/sh1l.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/633/sh2dq.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2535/sh3r.jpg
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9772/sh4rc.jpg
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8058/sh5o.jpg
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1448/sh7e.jpg
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6822/sh6o.jpg
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