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  #2061  
Old 02-11-2012, 06:49 PM
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its not a matter of distinguish the past from the present, if she's doing great things now, good for her, but the thing is that the past will haunt you forever, i mean, we(human beings) can easily forget great achivements (or good actions) but the bad things we all did will be first remenbered than the good things (i dont find any other way to explain this). dont get me wrong, she's doing a good job now, but dont expect me and others here to hit a wall and forget what she did before, unless i get alzheimer. (just joking^^)
well i tried to explain my opinion, i dont like her but i dont hate her either!
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  #2062  
Old 02-11-2012, 07:34 PM
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Well yet again, if the people who actually matter have left the past in the past and are giving her a second chance, then that is all that matters to me. I don't know what CP is doing with Sophia and if he is planning on marriage; is she the best choice imo, not really. But it is his choice and if she is trying to better herself, then I applaud her.
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  #2063  
Old 02-12-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
its not a matter of distinguish the past from the present, if she's doing great things now, good for her, but the thing is that the past will haunt you forever, i mean, we(human beings) can easily forget great achivements (or good actions) but the bad things we all did will be first remenbered than the good things (i dont find any other way to explain this). dont get me wrong, she's doing a good job now, but dont expect me and others here to hit a wall and forget what she did before, unless i get alzheimer. (just joking^^)
well i tried to explain my opinion, i dont like her but i dont hate her either!
The "problem" with this is that human beings don't remember only the bad things because they're not ABLE to remember the good things but because they don't WANT to remember the good things. The reason fpr this is only human. We thrive on looking better than others. Wecan only change this if we DECIDE to remember ALSO the good things. No matter if we look good or bad in comparsion. That's how I decided to live my life. I don't want to be ruled by my subcinscious mind but want to decide myself what I remember and why. I'm not saying I'm completely succeeding with this way of living but it has changed a lot of my point of view and what I remember.
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Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #2064  
Old 02-12-2012, 12:36 PM
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The "problem" with this is that human beings don't remember only the bad things because they're not ABLE to remember the good things but because they don't WANT to remember the good things. The reason fpr this is only human. We thrive on looking better than others. Wecan only change this if we DECIDE to remember ALSO the good things. No matter if we look good or bad in comparsion. That's how I decided to live my life. I don't want to be ruled by my subcinscious mind but want to decide myself what I remember and why. I'm not saying I'm completely succeeding with this way of living but it has changed a lot of my point of view and what I remember.
This is the same tired argument some people in these forums use to try and invalidate the opinions of others with whom they disagree. In essence it implies that you and others of your ilk are somehow better/smarter/more aware than myself and others who have at least here in this thread expressed an opinion different than yours. Rather than wrap up my response in effervescent layers of lavendar and sunshine and hide a very rude response in a passive-aggressive attack as some here seem to do, I prefer an honest, direct approach. Your statement is either wrong or it also applies in the converse. You and others who use this type of response to try and invalidate others' opinions - by your own logic and statements - aren't incapable of seeing the obvious because of some physical infirmity but because, as you said, you only choose to see the good. Putting on rose-colored glasses and ignoring serious behaviorial issues in a person (which in Sofia's case HAVE continued as she has more aggressively pursued fame - nude pics when she was underage notwithstanding) doesn't make those issues go away. It only has the power to make you feel better about your belief system. Personally I prefer to assess people, the world, and the issues in front of me with as much information as possible and to be as informed as possible. I'm glad that you are happy making decisions/establishing beliefs in your life with a narrow view and limited perspective. But just because you have chosen to ignore the "red flags" from Sofia's past as well as those from her current behavior does not make you more correct, more fair or better than anyone else. Because others choose to observe the world with a more pragmatic perspective does not make them wrong, unfair or less than you.
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  #2065  
Old 02-12-2012, 02:39 PM
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Round of applause for Rascal!
Well said!!

Point. Blank. Period!
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  #2066  
Old 02-12-2012, 02:41 PM
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Its one thing to remember the past, its an entirely different thing to hold it against someone for their entire life.
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  #2067  
Old 02-12-2012, 03:45 PM
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Rascal you're the best! amen...


KitKat2006 i understand your point in making you're statement with most value, but in this kind of topics, we all share diferent opinions and views, dont make yourself better than others here who disagree with you, if you dont like reading others commenting about Sofia's bad previous behaviour, why coming to a thread like this?
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  #2068  
Old 02-12-2012, 03:45 PM
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Rascal, Crownprincess5, I never said I ONLY want to remember or see the good things but I ALSO want to remember the good things. By all respect, english is your natural tongue not mine. You should know the difference between "only" and "also". And I ALSO (!!!) don't ignore any red flags. No, I RESPECT the fact that people can change. And with all due respect, there are nored flags at all that would prove her not being good enough to be a girlfriend of a prince since she dated said prince. No one is perfect, not you not me and certainly not Sofia. But what does it help to always hit someone with a virtuel baseball bat for something she can't change anyway. Shouldn't 100 times be enough already. Does she really need 200 or 300 times? I think not. I respect that you have your own opinion, but what do you think you archieve if you always and forever hold teenager-decisions and young woman decisions against a grown up woman? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. In my eyes it just shows that you are very, very narrow minded.

NGalitzine, thank you. It seems like you at least understood what I was trying to say.

At the mods, you can warn me if you want. And I'm sure you will because it always comes to a warning when I try to make my point here. But I'll stick to my opinion. I'm happy I am a person with an open mind and heart.
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Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #2069  
Old 02-12-2012, 03:55 PM
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yeah we arent perfect, but i didnt pose nude...and with a snake
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  #2070  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:04 PM
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What? You didn't do anything in your teenage years what could be hold against you now in a worst way if you would hypotetically date a prince? If your answer is yes you're either lying or you're not aware what could be "bad" enough in your case.

And honestly, I didn't say it was an intelligent choice of Sofia to do that, but on the other hand it's also not a crime to pose nude or with a snake. This can easily be called youthful carelessness. Just like Harry and the infamous Nazi-Badge. Or Stephanie of Monaco and her attemps at being a popstar. Even the real royals aren't flawless. That's life. So why should a girlfriend of a male royal be completely flawless?

And I know everyone will scream bloody murder for bringing this up but I do it anyway: I'm sure also Emma Pernald wasn't completely flawless. No, she didn't pose nude or with a snake (at least not to my knowledge) but how do we know that there aren't any skeletons in her cellar? I'm sure there are some unfortunate decisions in her early life, too. The media just hasn't uncovered them but maybe they would have if they stayed together? And what then? Suddenly she wouldn't the right one for CP because she ... drove drunk? Tried drugs? Skipped math classes? Used a little white lie in a job interview?

And all this can easily be transfered to every other female on this world. So CP would never ever in his life find the perfect, flawless wife everyone wants him to find. Poor CP.
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Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #2071  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
What? You didn't do anything in your teenage years what could be hold against you now in a worst way if you would hypotetically date a prince? If your answer is yes you're either lying or you're not aware what could be "bad" enough in your case.

Suddenly she wouldn't the right one for CP because she ... drove drunk? Tried drugs? Skipped math classes? Used a little white lie in a job interview?
wow seariously, just because i didnt do exactly anything that would go against me now, im not aware of what "bad" things are?
but is it me or you who dont know???
be careful guys because skipping classes or doing a little lie in a job interview is the same as posing nude!!!
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  #2072  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:44 PM
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I am not at all Sophia's fan,by the way I think if she could be really appreciated by most people only time will tell. Of course all her charity projects are more like PR(it's my point) in order to reveal her positive characteristics before an eventual engagement. Does Sophia have any great achievements?
No, she doesn't . I think she catched prince's eye mostly due to her beauty and character. She is very sure and in a way proud of herself, that's without doubt.
But I really think if any princess dated a man ( an actor maybe) who posed nude,it wouldn't have been so great discussion of his past.
I think Mette-Marrit was more accepted at the time, as she seemed quite shy and didn't seem very confident of herself.As to the other princesses or ladies, of course there were some incidents. For example, before an eventual engagement, future lady Frederick Windsor,the actress Sophie Winkleman had rather scandalous role in "Love Live Long" ,masturbating in some scenes.But even she wasn't expected to be a princess, the movie was prohibited on Britain's territory. Of course, she is an actress and it's her choice. It was argued that nothing was scandalous as her boyfriend had nothing against this role. But here is the past and the eventual title of princess, that's the matter I guess.
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  #2073  
Old 02-12-2012, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
wow seariously, just because i didnt do exactly anything that would go against me now, im not aware of what "bad" things are?
but is it me or you who dont know???
I didn't say that. Read my post again and than write a better comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
be careful guys because skipping classes or doing a little lie in a job interview is the same as posing nude!!!
Yes, in a way it is. All three are no crimes but nothing to be proud of (in case of the nude pics it is if they're not very professional or elegant like it unfortunatly happened with Sofia). All three are just as bad when it comes to being a public person who's behavor is an example. If the public person wants it or not.
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Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #2074  
Old 02-12-2012, 09:30 PM
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Posing nude with a snake isn't murder. Vanessa Williams posed nude and it didn't mean she did not end up being a respectable woman and mother.
Women are catty towards each other; there are those who can't stand Kate Middleton because she never had a full time job. With Sophie's past it was bound to bring out the high chair crowd who judge people by their past, not by their present. Is Sophie the ideal Princess, heck no; but I've always said the people on this board have no say on who Carl Philip chooses to date.
I definitely understand the desire to stop hearing the same blasts towards Sophie over and over again. There does come a time when one needs to get over it.
If Sophie came to CP correct and told the truth and he accepted who she once was then that shows his character. If his parents have done the same, that shows where his character has come from.
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  #2075  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:57 AM
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tired of this...
i just have a question, and im too lazy to look 104 pages. i know this has been discussed way back, as i didnt catch it, whats Sofia natural color??? because i know isnt that black.
at least i like one thing about her, is that she is a beauty!^^
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  #2076  
Old 02-13-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Posing nude with a snake isn't murder. Vanessa Williams posed nude and it didn't mean she did not end up being a respectable woman and mother.
The difference being that the pageant organization at the time did not "fire" Vanessa Williams. She, upon the advice of her manager/attorney and family recognized that remaining in the role of Miss America would do harm to the title and organization. I'm sure there must have been pressure from the organization but she herself stated that she chose to give up her title. Sofia on the other hand choose to behave as if the choices she made in her life do not have consequences and impact on her current situation.

In addition, it took quite a while for Vanessa Williams to "rehab" her reputation, even with successful album sales and work in the industry she faced years of criticism and prejudice...and she actually had TALENT!

-------------------------------------

Actually she is a perfect example to compare to Sofia. Both made regrettable choices at a very young age to pose nude for a photographer. Vanessa, who was at least 18 at the time of the photo shoot, claims that she never signed a waiver for their publication (facts which were verified when Hugh Hefner was initially offered them and declined because "...they clearly weren't authorized...") and never intended for them to appear in Penthouse. Sofia, who was 15 or 16 on at least some of the topless photo shoots, knew that these would be at least published in a portfolio and has stated that she wanted a modeling career.

Vanessa was in college at the time of her photo shoot studying music performance. She went on to win the Miss America crown and - prior to the photos being published - received hate mail and death threats...purely because she was African-American. Even though she resigned her title and did not complete her duties, the pageant organization still officially recognizes her and she remains popular and iconic in the pageant world.

Four years after her photos were published and relinquishing her title, Williams released her first album. Three years later her second album went to #1, and while continuing her recording career she expanded her acting career in feature films and now on television.

--------------------------------------------

Sofia, who ironically was born the same year Williams' photos were published, dropped out of high school. Approximately four or five years after her first topless photo shoot, Sofia posed for the now famous boa constrictor photos and became Miss Slitz 2004. The following year she appeared in the reality program Paradise Hotel and then moved to New York to live with a married man and studied to become a yoga teacher. She "tweeted" about making out with porn star Jenna Jameson during a visit to Las Vegas. She used that same method of communication when she later met and began a relationship with CP when she tweeted "I'm dating the prince!" Since June of last year she has been living with him.


It is difficult to compare the two women because even at a casual glance Vanessa is MUCH more talented and accomplished. Even when comparing their cv's at the same age, Sofia falls far short. IMO Sofia is not ugly but her makeup and styling choices until recently have been rather trashy. And now, because to keep her position secure she has tried to alter her image to appear respectable. There is nothing wrong with that other than the fact that is artificial. What was wrong with being respectable before? Her lack of education notwithstanding, Sofia does not appear to be an idiot. Why then choose of path to fame by posing semi-nude? Maybe because she didn't have anything else to offer? While Vanessa may have been dishonest on her pageant application and made the unfortunate choice of posing in the first place, she has consistently - even from a very young age - presented herself in a very elegant manner, and subsequently in her life with a great deal of dignity.

Even so, it is now almost 30 years since Vanessa's "scandal" broke. And while it isn't mentioned in every television interview or live appearance - the photos, and the consequences of her choices are mentioned in almost every written article about her. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure she doesn't get through an entire year of her life without someone mentioning it or asking her about it.

So if a former Miss America who is generally viewed as beautiful, talented, intelligent, elegant, good mother, etc. has the information about her "disgrace" regularly mentioned in reference to her almost 30 years later - then what can be expected in 30 years for Sofia if she maintains her relationship with CP? Even the discussion of Sofia's work with charity has hints of scandal both for her motives (only doing it to be seen as "acceptable") and her actions (having charitable donations deposited into her personal bank account). Based on results so far, she only seems to be changing superficial things without doing anything to truly better herself as a person. She appears to only do things to meet her originally stated aspiration of being "famous". It's like putting a fresh coat of paint on a house and not dealing with plumbing leaks and cracked walls on the inside.

An internet search brings up Sofia's nude and semi-nude images from the last ten years. If things stay as they are, 30 years from now they will be readily available, just as Vanessa's photos from 30 years ago are.
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  #2077  
Old 02-13-2012, 01:29 PM
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I still think there's something quite sexist about insinuating a woman is trashy and worthless because she appeared nude. Like it or not, we live in a culture that tells young women they need to be incredibly sexy to have value and then tells them they're worthless whores if they go ahead and do it.

Sophia didn't come from money. She probably saw some of those choices as her only shot to not wait tables for the rest of her life. I'm not going to fault someone for that- even if I don't particularly care for the method, I understand why young women sometimes go that right. She was looking for fame and the financial security that comes with it, and I don't think it's right to call her trash for the rest of her life because of it.

Honestly, at this point... I hope they get married. I hope it's an incredible wedding and she looks beautiful. He obviously loves her, and she's trying hard to fix her image so she'll be an appropriate consort, and I'd much rather see that than see him end up married to some proper lady that he doesn't really love.
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  #2078  
Old 02-13-2012, 06:45 PM
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It actually wasn't Sofia's nude pictures to which I was referring when I used the word "trashy". It was more to do with her choices of clothing, makeup, and overall behavior.

I have nothing against nudity but most people I know understand the "hierarchy" of at least the US-published men's magazines. Generally Playboy is considered the closest to elegant or dignified and its pictorials in general have a more respectable and/or artistic style than the other men's magazines, including ones in which the women are clothed - like FHM, which I am assuming is similar, if perhaps more professionally done, to Slitz in Sweden. Sofia's pictures - both fully nude and semi-nude - were similar to what one would find in Penthouse which is a little further down the trashy scale. While her photographs may BE trashy, the choice to pose nude IMO is not.

Her other behaviors and photos of her in her everyday life are the basis for the description. Living with a married man may be considered trashy by some. Tweeting about making out with a porn star is not something a refined, elegant, discreet, professional woman does (and where is the tweet, "I just got to build a school for underprivileged children"? or "I just got to meet the president of Finland!"?). Based on her choices about how she has presented herself to the world for the majority of her adult life she can be labeled as trashy. I would commend her for trying to change her image and how she is perceived if I believed that her motives were for more than to achieve fame...but as previously stated she has done nothing to indicate that any of these changes are sincere, lasting, or selfless.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:50 PM
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Vanessa William's scandal is mentioned as a footnote as to how she overcame it and didn't let it define who she was or where she was going. Perhaps there are still people whining about her nude photos but Vanessa herself has moved on ages ago. If Carl Philip and Sofia get married then in 10yrs you can continue to whine about her photographs and how unfit she is to be a princess...I highly doubt Sofia or Carl Philip will care at all about someone who refuses to let go of the past.
Women are catty towards each other and will always find something to hate on each other for, and Sofia will just have to learn to live with it if she indeed plans to marry CP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Sophia didn't come from money. She probably saw some of those choices as her only shot to not wait tables for the rest of her life. I'm not going to fault someone for that- even if I don't particularly care for the method, I understand why young women sometimes go that right. She was looking for fame and the financial security that comes with it, and I don't think it's right to call her trash for the rest of her life because of it.
I agree, I don't fault women who have made the choice to take their clothes off for money. Is it the choice I would make...he11 to the naw. But I do understand and know some women who have stripped to get through college or to pay their bills. It doesn't define them or make them a bad person.

Quote:
Honestly, at this point... I hope they get married. I hope it's an incredible wedding and she looks beautiful. He obviously loves her, and she's trying hard to fix her image so she'll be an appropriate consort, and I'd much rather see that than see him end up married to some proper lady that he doesn't really love.
I'm also there with you. All this bitterness towards her makes me long for an engagement and huge wedding just to piss certain people off. From what I know of the couple I would prefer them to wait a while longer and I can't necessarily say if they will marry and remain married. Would I personally prefer him find somebody else, yes; but I don't know CP or Sophia and it is not my choice. If she is trying to better herself than more power to her. And as I said months ago, if CPs parents accept her then there must be something good about her.
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  #2080  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:08 PM
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i dont hate her and i dont like her, if she marries CP, i would care less, he is not a crown prince, he can do whatever he wants, and Sofia too, she doesnt mean nothing to me, so if she marries him, good for her i guess.
the thing is, posing nude for some people it is "bad", i think its bad, and it all depends on a person's education, values, religion and traditions. some of you think its normal, ok i understand that and the things about not having fault, respect, choice, etc... but where is you're respect for those who think its "bad"??? not everyone has being raised the same, and im not saying im better than you because im not, but all this respect talk about Sofia but you cant even respect us who disagree with you.
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