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  #121  
Old 07-05-2005, 12:44 AM
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What did she say about PHashim. ANd I think it is prudent for her to not to talk so much about her kids.
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  #122  
Old 07-05-2005, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
What did she say about PHashim. ANd I think it is prudent for her to not to talk so much about her kids.
she said that he absolutely loves marine biology and when they went to Japan (i think, or it might be China) somebody gave him a book about marine biology. apparently Hashim kept that book and still has it until this day and adores it!
she also said that Hamzah's first word was "tayara" which is the arabic word for airplane! too cute!!!
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  #123  
Old 07-05-2005, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara
I don't know if this has been discussed! so here it goes... i read QNoor's book and i thought it was pretty insightful but i don't think she wrote enough about her children. she only talked about their deliveries and in some occasions (Hashim) their interests very very very briefly. like ten sentences for each. anybody else notice that. i think she's trying to protect them from the media and gossiping class in Jordan which is pretty smart imo. anybody else got this feeling?
yes i think the same!
was a little bit sad that she didnt write more about them but i can understand her.
i would do the same in her situation
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  #124  
Old 07-05-2005, 10:34 AM
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She went to Princeton with the first class of women--hardly a flower child type!
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  #125  
Old 07-05-2005, 09:04 PM
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Then went on sabbatical to hang out in Aspen with ski bums in an old house run by a self-described hippie, Dick Tuck. It's one of the contradictions QN herself addresses in her book and various articles--how she was more of a free spirited activist type and imagined herself marrying barefoot on a hill somewhere. She lived in jeans and attended a few official functions with her father before becoming Queen and really stood out in the crowd as she may have been an ivy league student but clearly--and proudly--eschewed any sort of preppy look or attitude. Even Barbara Bush's autobiography mentions one function where every attendee was well dressed in rather formal attire and Lisa Halaby attended in sandals, flowing 60's hippie style clothing and long hair, looking every inch the free spirit 20-something. Much to her parents' dismay, she refused to participate in "socialite" activities and do the whole "coming out" thing. She actually says she found the year she "dropped out" and lived in the Tuck household one of the "happiest" in her life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbette
She went to Princeton with the first class of women--hardly a flower child type!
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  #126  
Old 07-05-2005, 09:21 PM
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Do you think that all along she has rejected Western society and norms and that when she became Queen she was more comfortable in Jordanian and Muslim society? But you know, now it seems as if she likes the Western socialite scene.
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  #127  
Old 07-05-2005, 09:43 PM
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Possibly. No, definitely, I think that was very much her thinking in her 20's. She thought of herself as being very anti-establishment. The "simplicity, natural beauty and being able to meet people from all levels of society in the ME" was something she was, I believe, sincerely drawn to.

You are right that seems to be different now as she is photographed quite often with people I would see as "high society" personages. I think she does now enjoy socializing with the upper echelon--including people whose habits she eschewed when she was younger. I wonder why. Any thoughts? It does seem to be kind of a 180 from the way she thought about society for many years......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
Do you think that all along she has rejected Western society and norms and that when she became Queen she was more comfortable in Jordanian and Muslim society? But you know, now it seems as if she likes the Western socialite scene.
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  #128  
Old 07-05-2005, 10:09 PM
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It seems alot of the ppl who were anti-establishment eventually became the establishment. Also I think maybe she went throguh alot in Jordanian society adn was not accepted like she thought she would be.
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  #129  
Old 07-05-2005, 10:27 PM
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I wouldnt turn this into a Muslim vs. Western debate as many people are tempted to. Because its nothing more than another stereotypical generalization and based on little knowledge of other cultures. Noor never "rejected" western society. She merely became Queen of Jordan and made it her home and as everyone expected her to, embraced the culture and norms of her new home. That is nothing new. Women who marry into foreign cultures, let alone a royal family, always go through such transitions. Recent examples would be princess Alexandra and Mary of Denmark who were born into very different cultures. The western world as a whole isnt any more a monolith than other cultures, whether Islamic, Asian, etc.
Its more a question of Noor spending more time in the US as opposed to Jordan. Im sure things would've been vastly different had her husband been alive. Her position is very different now and precarious within the JRF. Undoubtedly she prefers to spend time outside of Jordan, whether that has anything to do with her being an "outcast" or that she merely feels uncomfortable there now that she is no longer the Queen of Jordan, no one can say for sure. We have to realize that there is little to keep her in Jordan. In the US and generally outside of Jordan, Noor receives more attention for her work, whether its landmines or something else. In Jordan she would be relegated to a secondary position, behind Abdullah and Rania, something thats to be expected. Even her kids dont live in Jordan all year round. I dont mean to say that Queen Noor craves attention, but isnt it very human for someone to want to live in a place where we're appreciated the most and our efforts are recognized.
Besides, its not like Noor is living exclusively in the US, as she said recently she "lives out of a suitcase" and spends time all over the world.
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  #130  
Old 07-05-2005, 10:30 PM
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No one is trying to turn this into anything. Maryshawn and I were discussing how she was a flower-child type and anti-establishment and then into the establishment. I think this discussion will be a very good one.
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  #131  
Old 07-05-2005, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
No one is trying to turn this into anything. Maryshawn and I were discussing how she was a flower-child type and anti-establishment and then into the establishment. I think this discussion will be a very good one.
being anti-establishment isnt the same as rejecting western culture, which is something Noor has never done, she grew up in that culture. You implied that "all along she has rejected Western society and norms and that when she became Queen she was more comfortable in Jordanian and Muslim society"
thats a very different debate. And when you pose a question like that, I assume you were looking for responses. I merely responded to that question.
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  #132  
Old 07-05-2005, 10:55 PM
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Well at that time it was all about rejecting Western society and norms, which included the establishment.
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  #133  
Old 07-05-2005, 11:26 PM
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QN has stated many times she felt much more at home in Jordan and the ME than the US. She has also stated she was deeply attached to her arab roots and that she never really felt comfortable as "Lisa," as "a nominally episcopalian," even "I found my trust in its [the US] institutions shaken badly." (page 32 of "Leap of Faith). She felt more of an attachment and profound love for the ME because of her heritage and something within her which "forged an inexplicable but profound attachment to the land of my forefathers." She used her love for and understanding of the issues of both countries to help deepen understanding and reestablish communication after difficult times like the Gulf War. She found the West's interest in her "disappointing as the focus always seemed to be on my clothes, not my speeches." For a long time--speaking as someone who really has a deep and abiding respect for QN--she did seem to eschew things she had left behind in the US. Even friends. In her own words, she outlines she was so busy immersing herself in her "new homeland, it was a good ten years before she found time for private visits with them and reestablishing meaningful ties".

But this is not a for or against religions, cultures, countries, what defines west vs. east......topic in any manner, way, shape or form. A young woman married the King of Jordan and it coallesced with her already established high regard and love for the Middle East and she devoted a lot of time to further immersing herself in it. Nothing contentious about that.

I find it interesting to discuss how someone who described herself as anti-establishment and was definitely a free spirited adventurous type transitioned into a Queen then has re-emerged as a person who moves in many of the same crowds who she once sought to move away from. Like Reina, I think QN is not unlike many who were caught up in the incredible events of the 1960's and then became activists who questioned how things were done and began focusing on the rights of others, environmental concerns, the Peace Corps,...... And who have subsequently embraced some of the people whose values they once questioned. But times have changed and many of the power elite were once also like QN, challenging the things they saw, questioning if things were "right," actively pursuing change. I think many of those she now socializes with in those areas are less rigid than in the 50's and 60's--and that, too, may explain her comfort level with them.
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  #134  
Old 07-05-2005, 11:38 PM
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Once again you say it right maryshawn. Thank you.

And I was not being critical of her. I think her destiny for a time was in Jordan and being involved in Middle Eastern affairs. SHe had that inner love and interest for her roots. That was her calling. And now that things have changed, she has come back to the US-where her other roots are. But she still respects her Arab roots by trying to bring about change and establish dialogue b/t the two places she has called home.
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  #135  
Old 07-05-2005, 11:41 PM
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Most of the people, celebrity or otherwise, Noor socializes with are interested in the same things and support the same causes as her. That has a lot to do with it. I dont find that surprising at all.
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  #136  
Old 07-06-2005, 12:06 AM
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Exactly!:)

She's a modern woman who evolves with the times and circumstances. Reminds me of the movie "The Big Chill," when all the now early 40/late 30 somethings laugh about how their thoughts and actions have changed a great deal since they were in their college days.....kind of poking fun at themselves for "gee, we've become one of 'them.'"

I also think the natural course of aging brings with it--hopefully--increased tolerance for others. You become better equipped from the wisdom gained living life to overlook things which once made you flare up in defiance. You find the good in people--even if you don't agree with all they say or do. QN says (VF, Feb. 1999) she learned to espouse that philosophy from KH's example and it "is a much more peaceful way to live one's life." She's also stated she is far more interested in "what connects us then that which divides us." And she was referring to all people, all cultures, all ages from all walks of life. I like that philosophy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
Once again you say it right maryshawn. Thank you.

And I was not being critical of her. I think her destiny for a time was in Jordan and being involved in Middle Eastern affairs. SHe had that inner love and interest for her roots. That was her calling. And now that things have changed, she has come back to the US-where her other roots are. But she still respects her Arab roots by trying to bring about change and establish dialogue b/t the two places she has called home.
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  #137  
Old 07-07-2005, 09:07 PM
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Does anyone know where Noor considers her home base? Is it Washington? Is that where her daughters go to school or where her sisters live?

She has been travelling a lot the last several years with her book tour but also on behalf of her various charities and organizations.

It seems sad and regretful that after more than 20 years spent living in Jordan and promoting it and championing its citizens that Queen Noor might feel unwelcome there now and would not be able to reside there, even if she lived out of the spotlight.
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  #138  
Old 07-08-2005, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genevieve
Does anyone know where Noor considers her home base? Is it Washington? Is that where her daughters go to school or where her sisters live?

She has been travelling a lot the last several years with her book tour but also on behalf of her various charities and organizations.

It seems sad and regretful that after more than 20 years spent living in Jordan and promoting it and championing its citizens that Queen Noor might feel unwelcome there now and would not be able to reside there, even if she lived out of the spotlight.
she said at larry king - that her home base is her house in jordan
I don't think that she is completely unwelcome in jordan - but her children lived and live in the states and she was travelling all the time.
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  #139  
Old 07-08-2005, 11:04 AM
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Yeah, I don't think I believe that. I think she lives in Virginia.
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  #140  
Old 07-08-2005, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbette
Yeah, I don't think I believe that. I think she lives in Virginia.
I think most of the time she lives in mclean/va.
but when she says its her based home.
it was not important to tell that - so I dont think that she lied.
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