Crown Prince Hamzah relieved of his title: November 28, 2004

[tipper]

She has no choice but to "shut up" as you say.
Do you honestly think she'll broadcast her disappointment all over the world?
Besides, Jordan is a sovereign nation, no one else can interfere in the succession of its monarchy..they'd have no reason to, because Abdullah's son is his natural heir according to the law in Jordan, the same law that applies to monarchies all over the world.

I don't think any1 protested when Abdullah was sent to UK and P Hassan was made CP instead of the eldest King' son- u know and I know that the succession here , in this country, does not always pass from father to son- u're talking matters here as if Jordan Gov and its Parliament really has a say in any Jordan's issues. So, u're happy about this mess, ok, suit yourself, u know, I never join a KA or a QR's thread, what for, just to state my strong dislike for those 2s ? It would be a waste of time.

sorry , i think we were misunderstanding each other, i was saying the I read yesterday in an arabic website that may be there is no such a promise from K Abdullah to king hussain ( his father, i think u thought prince hussain), but speculations from people.

yes I know now P hussein is the crown prince by default.

Well, so, if a King makes his brother his CP by Royal Decree ,what, in your opinion does it mean, does it mean that the King is merely making a fool of his late father's wishes and of his brother ? I'm a patient person, I'll be waiting here and just c what will happen to the golden couple,for how long will their adventure last - is KA really such a great King, is he so self- assured, now ? as I read somewhere in the last days-: KA is feeling insecure, that's why all this haste, if he had to betray and to forget his promise, he could at least have been waiting til his son reached his 18th b-day.

lol Carla what are u hinting at,I only said what i exactly thought of sayin,was what i said wrong?lol

Nana, wrong ? u misunderstood me ! U just said nothing wrong at all, but I'm just saying u are here and that means alot, or not ? Maybe it's me who's being wrong....I'm confused, now-PS- I'm not hinting anything.

Hamzah was at the opening of Parliament, all the brothers were. Also QR and muna

Has any1 looked at Hamzah's face ? Does he look happy ? He doesn't, of course, he was there, God only knows why he's always doing what ppl expect from him....

 

[Humera]

I don't think any1 protested when Abdullah was sent to UK and P Hassan was made CP instead of the eldest King' son- u know and I know that the succession here , in this country, does not always pass from father to son- u're talking matters here as if Jordan Gov and its Parliament really has a say in any Jordan's issues. So, u're happy about this mess, ok, suit yourself, u know, I never join a KA or a QR's thread, what for, just to state my strong dislike for those 2s ? It would be a waste of time.

There was only ONE incident of a brother of the King being made CP, ie. Prince Hassan. The constitution has always stated that the King's son inherits and it has always been that way in Jordan.
I read one of your other posts and you said that in Jordan, the King is the law. So it would seem to me that you would prefer the King to flout the law every time in order to put his "favourite" on the throne. King Hussein made that mistake with his brother. Isnt it better for his son Abdullah to correct that mistake? Or do you think that because Jordan isnt a democracy, makes it right for the King to go on doing as he wants and not pay any attention to what the constitution says?
And I am not happy about the situation. I dont know what gave you that idea. I was shocked and disappointed like most people. Just because Im defending the rule of law doesnt mean Im a die-hard Abdullah and Rania supporter. You seem to have ignored all the posts i've written criticizing the couple. I am not one to let my partiality for a particular member of the JRF cloud my judgement. Besides, we have no say in the matter. The decision is best for Jordan and Jordanians.

 

[tipper]

Was the best interest of the Jordanian people taken into consideration? What's really upsetting about the Jordanian monarchy is that the interest of the King to pass the throne to the son and keep the throne in his nuclear family is much more important than the best interest of the Jordanian people. This has been repeated twice within the last five years. KH, on his death bed, took the title from his very capable brother Prince Hassan and passed it to his eldest son. And you all must admit, Prince Hassan is an experienced statesman and he would have made an excellent King. And once again, history is repeating itself, KA has stripped the CP title from his very capable half-brother who is VERY popular in Jordan despite his absence and his young age....and all of that to ensure that the throne remains in his nuclear family.

yes, KA just thought of what it was best for himself ,his wife and his son, at least KH knew Hamzah would make a great King, how can KA know that the same applies to his son, being P Hussein just a kid of 10 ? Was KA thinking of his country, or what it was best for it, when he took that decision, well, no, of course, he was not-I bet QR will go to a shopping trip in NY or Paris, as she finally has had her way. She has been struggling so much these last 5 years, poor woman, she deserves a break., she's the winner ! PS- I'm thinking of the article- The battle of wives-

I hate to contradict you Tipper, but the Constitution was not ignored back in 1965. It was amended by Parliamentary Degree ( and as Prince Hassan was an 18 year old student away at university, I am sure he played no part in the decision, which was one of expediency). The amendment was to Article 28, (a) Chapter Four; The Executive Power; Part 1; The King and his Perogatives. The amendment was then recorded in the Official Gazette No. 1831 of 1/4/1965. I was sent this information this very morning by someone after a long discussion. It reads as follows :

(a) The Royal title shall pass from the holder of the Throne to his eldest son, and to the eldest son of that son and in linear sucession by a similar process thereafter. Should the eldest son die before the Throne devolves upon him, his eldest son shall inherit the Throne, despite the existance of brothers to the deceased son. The King may, however, select one of his brothers as heir apparent. In this event, title to the Throne shall pass to him from the holder of the Throne.

So no provision for a nephew. Without further parliamentary amendments, Prince Hassan had but two choices. His son Rashid or his brother Mohammed who had already been passed over in the matter because of ill health. King Hussein did not read the small print, or did not choose to give it importance. Maybe being an absolute ruler for over forty years does that to you !

Well, ok, I never said P Hassan had a say in all that, though Queen Zein had it, anyway, why was Ali Heir Apparent from 1975 to 1998, a Heir Apparent is some1 who is to succeed the country CP, if I remember well. What I'm saying is that the King in this country is the Constitution.

Who was present at KH's last b-day, plz, check the pic : Aisha, Alia, Zein, Hashim, Hamzah, QN, Hayah, Iman and Raiyah- no Abdullah, his wife, or even Feisal- Who was at KH's bedsite at Mayo Clinic for about 7 months ,24 hours over 24,? Only Hamzah and Noor.

the best answer to those who are thinking Hamzah had no right to be King 1 day.

 

[Humera]

Who was present at KH's last b-day, plz, check the pic : Aisha, Alia, Zein, Hashim, Hamzah, QN, Hayah, Iman and Raiyah- no Abdullah, his wife, or even Feisal- Who was at KH's bedsite at Mayo Clinic for about 7 months ,24 hours over 24,? Only Hamzah and Noor.

You choose to believe in the validity of rumours regarding Abduallah, Rania, Muna etc and yet not the ones regarding Queen Noor. What about the assertion that Queen Noor actually prevented anyone but herself and her kids from seeing King Hussein right before his death? That way she could influence him much strongly. Im not saying those rumours might be true, but I do think you should be fair instead of being partial. Although I understand thats not possible for some who only looks for evidence to support their own side of the story.

 

[Angie]

I can't see where all the hate towards King Abdullah and Queen Rania are based on!!!!! Just because King Abdullah is a young king and has his own ideas and Rania is a beautifull woman, doesn't mean that they are bad!!! I feel a lot of jealousy on this forum against king abdullah and Queen Rania.

Oh god the whole jealousy thing again!

What's there to be jealous of?

 

[cute_girl]

if he had to betray and to forget his promise, he could at least have been waiting til his son reached his 18th b-day.

i'm glad he didn't wait,that's the only honorable thing he's done to hamza

 

[shelley]

Well, ok, I never said P Hassan had a say in all that, though Queen Zein had it, anyway, why was Ali Heir Apparent from 1975 to 1998, a Heir Apparent is some1 who is to succeed the country CP, if I remember well. What I'm saying is that the King in this country is the Constitution.

Ali was never Heir Apparent. King Hussein wrote a much publicised 'open' letter to Prince Hassan on the eve of his marriage to Queen Noor, in which he said that in the future, he would like Prince Hassan to consider Ali as his heir, taking precedence over his older sons, Abdullah and Feisal, as their mother had not been born a Muslim. Not my words or conclusion, just what the letter actually said. This letter was written in 1978, before Prince Rashid was born, to a 31 year old Prince Hassan. It just shows again that King Hussein was not thinking things through as it was not inconceivable that at this still young age the Prince Hassan might have a son whose arrival change the whole landscape, which is what happened. I actually feel quite sorry for Prince Rashid who seems to mind his own business and get on with life, but whose birth was unfortunately the catalyst that resulted in his father's being removed from a job he had worked hard at for many years.

 

[abir]

I still think about what KA said to PH "CP is only a honorary position".
We all know it was only an excuse to remove PH. But KA couldn't say something else? what he said means as KA doesn't care if something bad happen to him and the next king of Jordan is not experienced. Does KA cares more about the power than the interest of the country?
Anyway I think with his son, the title will not be honorary.

 

[cut1me]

And seeing Hamzah sitting there in the parliament shows that he supports his brother.

of course he would be there, they was never any question he wouldnt go. Even if he isnt happy, which he clearly isnt from the pics we have seen, he has to show some kind of unity to the king

Has any1 looked at Hamzah's face ? Does he look happy ? He doesn't, of course, he was there, God only knows why he's always doing what ppl expect from him....

exactly he is doing what people expect from him

my friend in Jordan watched it, she told me that P.Hamzah's face looked very depressed, that him and Hashem looked completely out of it.

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

sorry , i think we were misunderstanding each other, i was saying the I read yesterday in an arabic website that may be there is no such a promise from K Abdullah to king hussain ( his father, i think u thought prince hussain), but speculations from people.

yes I know now P hussein is the crown prince by default.

yea I heard that too,though I heard it on Al-Arabiya by some Jordanian analyzer,whoi by the way is very known to be a suck up...ehhm

god my big mouth is gonna get me into trouble

You choose to believe in the validity of rumours regarding Abduallah, Rania, Muna etc and yet not the ones regarding Queen Noor. What about the assertion that Queen Noor actually prevented anyone but herself and her kids from seeing King Hussein right before his death? That way she could influence him much strongly. Im not saying those rumours might be true, but I do think you should be fair instead of being partial. Although I understand thats not possible for some who only looks for evidence to support their own side of the story.

well those are rumors...Have u read leap of faith?

exactly he is doing what people expect from him

my friend in Jordan watched it, she told me that P.Hamzah's face looked very depressed, that him and Hashem looked completely out of it.

lol i thought so too , but even though they looked depressed,they looked just cute ( i just cudnt help but say that again and again)
I agree with u ,Hamzah looks like the type that keeps his anger inside he hides his feelings and never let them out,which isn't good at all

 

[Banadoora]

I couldn't help but notice the way everyone's been blaming the entire thing on the women. I wouldn't blame Queen Rania or Princess Muna for anything. This was King Abdullah's decision in the end.

As for Queen Noor, she was queen for her time and now it's over. She should be a part of Prince Hamzah's support system no matter what his fate would have been. I believe that this is the way she's thinking right now. Whether or not she's dissapointed, I don't see her broadcating to the world any thoughts other than those of her support for King Abdullah.

 

[shelley]

of course he would be there, they was never any question he wouldnt go. Even if he isnt happy, which he clearly isnt from the pics we have seen, he has to show some kind of unity to the king

Prince Hamzah is a gentleman and loyal to the throne, as was his uncle. So it is not surprising that he should be at the opening of Parliament. I will never forget the dignity with which Prince Hassan took King Abdullah to Parliament to be sworn in as King, and also how he was the the very first Jordanian the next day to swear allegience to his nephew at the 'Salam' ceremony. That man has always been a class act which many other people would do well to try and emulate.

 

[Humera]

well those are rumors...Have u read leap of faith?

that was my point. Both sides have plenty of rumours directed at them. There's no point, then, in blindly believing one side and totally ignoring the other.

 

[kinneret5764]

I couldn't help but notice the way everyone's been blaming the entire thing on the women. I wouldn't blame Queen Rania or Princess Muna for anything. This was King Abdullah's decision in the end.

As for Queen Noor, she was queen for her time and now it's over. She should be a part of Prince Hamzah's support system no matter what his fate would have been. I believe that this is the way she's thinking right now. Whether or not she's dissapointed, I don't see her broadcating to the world any thoughts other than those of her support for King Abdullah.

I agree with you. I don't think Q Rania had anything to do with KA's decision. KA is a man who simply wanted his son to be king after him. According to the Jordanian Constitution, P. Hussein is the heir to the throne. I'm sure P. Hamzah always knew that one day KA would want his own son to be king. P. Hamzah has the whole world ahead of him now. He can choose his own path. P. Hussein cannot - his path has been chosen for him. So has KA's.

Let's stop blaming the women. And if Q Noor is having a fit, she should get over it. She had no business trying to position P. Hamzah to inherit the throne. And KH should have used more wisdom regarding the matters of succession by simply abiding by the Constitution, and not openly favoring one sone over the others when the other sons have done nothing wrong.

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

that was my point. Both sides have plenty of rumours directed at them. There's no point, then, in blindly believing one side and totally ignoring the other.

yea that's True.

 

[kinneret5764]

I haven't seen any pictures or news of P. Noor since the big wedding back in May. Anyone out there in Jordan knows what she's up to? Do you think she may be pregnant, and that's why KA decided to make the switch in succession now?

 

[Humera]

I haven't seen any pictures or news of P. Noor since the big wedding back in May. Anyone out there in Jordan knows what she's up to? Do you think she may be pregnant, and that's why KA decided to make the switch in succession now?

Princess Noor being pregnant wouldn't have affected the succession issue. Im sure Abdullah knows that Noor and Hamzah, as a married couple, are going to have kids eventually.

 

[Reina]

If KA does do away with QN's title what will she be called?

 

[tipper]

Ali was never Heir Apparent. King Hussein wrote a much publicised 'open' letter to Prince Hassan on the eve of his marriage to Queen Noor, in which he said that in the future, he would like Prince Hassan to consider Ali as his heir, taking precedence over his older sons, Abdullah and Feisal, as their mother had not been born a Muslim. Not my words or conclusion, just what the letter actually said. This letter was written in 1978, before Prince Rashid was born, to a 31 year old Prince Hassan. It just shows again that King Hussein was not thinking things through as it was not inconceivable that at this still young age the Prince Hassan might have a son whose arrival change the whole landscape, which is what happened. I actually feel quite sorry for Prince Rashid who seems to mind his own business and get on with life, but whose birth was unfortunately the catalyst that resulted in his father's being removed from a job he had worked hard at for many years.

well, I feel sorry for Hamzah... anyway, this letter to P Hassan , in which KH talked about Ali be P Hassan's CP in the future just shows that a nephew could succeed the King-

exactly he is doing what people expect from him

my friend in Jordan watched it, she told me that P.Hamzah's face looked very depressed, that him and Hashem looked completely out of it.

we can clearly c it from the pix- I wish Hamzah would finally fight all this back as it's very unfair, who knows ,he could have many supporters., if he didn't oblige, once again, to KA, .. isn't QN at least trying to do something about it ?

 

[abir]

P. Hamza web site still figure "PH Crown Prince". Maybe he doesn't have yet the time to change that! There is also what KA said about duties of CP:

"The Crown Prince is ... the Throne's reserve & the King's right-hand man. He is the one being prepared today to carry out responsabilities that will be given to him in future."
His Majesty King Abdullah II (Al Hayat Newspaper, 12 May 1999)


Is this what embrassed KA?
I found also a picture of PH with KA and QR in the coronation day. I think it was taken later that day, QR hair is different and also the king suit

 

[tipper]

??????????????????????????'''

I read on -The Star online- that " the King - officials say privately- will let Hamzah in on private matters " -what does it mean ??????????

 

[kinneret5764]

P. Hamzah will have to update his website; I wonder if he will still maintain a website now that he is no longer CP. Who knows, may be P. Hamzah will be appointed to serve in a highly influential capacity in some area of government. Or maybe he could prove successful in the business world.

I think losing the CP title was the best thing that could have happened to him. He has more choices now.

 

[abir]

P. Hamzah will have to update his website; I wonder if he will still maintain a website now that he is no longer CP. Who knows, may be P. Hamzah will be appointed to serve in a highly influential capacity in some area of government. Or maybe he could prove successful in the business world.

I think losing the CP title was the best thing that could have happened to him. He has more choices now.

I agree with you kinneret5764, now he can enjoy his life and build his professional future. It's better that the "dream" of CP doesn't last years.

 

[kinneret5764]

Although I think KA was right in resolving the succession matter once and for all, the truth is that P. Hamzah has been subject of much jealousy for anumber of years. Some attribute this to QN's plotting and scheming; but other think it is because of his noble character. He has proved to be a loyal son and brother to his family, a loyal soldier. Someone is bound to be jealous of that.

 

[Banadoora]

P. Hamza web site still figure "PH Crown Prince". Maybe he doesn't have yet the time to change that! There is also what KA said about duties of CP:

"The Crown Prince is ... the Throne's reserve & the King's right-hand man. He is the one being prepared today to carry out responsabilities that will be given to him in future."
His Majesty King Abdullah II (Al Hayat Newspaper, 12 May 1999)


Is this what embrassed KA?
I found also a picture of PH with KA and QR in the coronation day. I think it was taken later that day, QR hair is different and also the king suit

His website was updated with his reply letter to King Abdullah.

I hope he doesn't get rid of his website.

 

[cut1me]

i spoke to a friend of mine who goes to jordan alot and she says that she has never seen any pics of P.Hamzah hung on the walls. There is a pic of KA and the late KH. She also told me that when KH was still alive and king all the gov't buildings had pics of him and P.Hassan who was CP at the time. She always thought it was strange that there was never a pic of P.Hamzah

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

i spoke to a friend of mine who goes to jordan alot and she says that she has never seen any pics of P.Hamzah hung on the walls. There is a pic of KA and the late KH. She also told me that when KH was still alive and king all the gov't buildings had pics of him and P.Hassan who was CP at the time. She always thought it was strange that there was never a pic of P.Hamzah

yes...she's right. ( ilove it when people agree with me,LOL)

 

[Balqis]

You have a point. Unfortunately, there isn't much news on Hamzah; and there never really has been. It seems as if the Jordanian media deliberately try to publish as little as possible about him or his siblings. This could be the norm of the future; I'm sure there are those who would like him sidelined forever, by not not publishing or publicizing anything thing that he does, good or bad.

Although I think KA was right in resolving the succession matter once and for all, the truth is that P. Hamzah has been subject of much jealousy for anumber of years. Some attribute this to QN's plotting and scheming; but other think it is because of his noble character. He has proved to be a loyal son and brother to his family, a loyal soldier. Someone is bound to be jealous of that.

You have touched on something here, kinneret. I think perhaps in future the royal family in Jordan maybe quite streamlined, just like it is been slowly done in Britain and elsewhere ie. the monarch his or her spouse, their heirs etc. will be the primary focus. Large royal families spell disaster, I think, as you have too many personalities, too many possible clashes and so on. So maybe the news about Hamzah is a new beginning for the JRF and it will give the other members much more of a private life, which I think is definitely a good thing. It's nothing to do with vanity so that the King and Queen have all the "power and prestige", but just a natural progression and streamlining. You can look at it this way also. It doesn't have to be all negative.


We haven't really looked at things from Prince Hussein's perspective. He is the rightful heir to his father, despite the naming of Hamzah as Crown Prince. I am sure, knowing what an honourable young man Hamzah is, he would never want to be seen as robbing his nephew of his true rights. I've laways said that whoever's destiny it is to be the next king, he will be...

 

[maryshawn]

We haven't really looked at things from Prince Hussein's perspective. He is the rightful heir to his father, despite the naming of Hamzah as Crown Prince. I am sure, knowing what an honourable young man Hamzah is, he would never want to be seen as robbing his nephew of his true rights. I've laways said that whoever's destiny it is to be the next king, he will be...

Well, I totally agree! I think your statement about Hamzah is totally on target. And Islam is most clear; all things are in Allah's hands....so why worry? KH said that before he died. Westerners--like me--have this belief we have more control than we do.....the Islamic philosophy, I have found, is a much more peaceful, less stressful way to live one's life. All things--and I paraphrase you here--will turn out as they are meant to be. So, why worry or speculate?

What does inshallah mean? And how is it properly spelled and pronounced? I have a general idea but would appreciate clarification.

Noor Restricting Access to KH is Wrong

There are photos of KH at Mayo with Feisal, Haya, Ali and Alia.....and other children so I don't believe Noor prevented them from seeing him. She also hosted his sister and brother often....as well as many Arabic leaders. Haya was the one who noticed big change in KH when she was at Mayo with him while Noor and other children took a dinner break. Many of the children travelled, schedules permitting, to Mayo and accompanied KH and Noor to and from Mayo on both trips. I look for the best in people, true, but there are Associated Press reports of all the children being around him at Mayo and as he lay dying in Amman. She was encouraged by all the children, led by Haya, not to spare them the facts and give them truth at all times about his condition. All of the sons (KA may have been in Amman tending to business) met with doctors, at Noor's urging, so they could fully understand and ask questions about his condition and prognosis. No, I do not believe Noor would keep his children from him and there is substantive evidence she did not. She's not a cruel person. I found it most poignant that of all the children she said she felt most strongly for Abir, Haya and Ali who had already lost one parent......She did not say same of her children.


Yes, let's forget the women!!!!!

KA made the decision. That was his choice.

QR.....I missed it. I didn't see her at parliamentary opening but rely on photo posts as I'm in U.S.

Haven't heard a word from QN on subject. She always said she would support line of succession. That's all I've heard. Has someone read something different? Like QR, she has much to focus on.....4 children plus good relations with many step children, her own family--mom, sister and brother, issues like landmines, KHF and QNF,........I wasn't always so sure about her wanting Hamzah to be King. She stated in book, interviews she felt KA was a good choice as he'd had time to "live life of his own choosing w/o the presssures of being CP or King...and she wanted same for Hamzah!" Now we can say she was being politically correct but as someone who did just that--dropped out of Princeton and traveled widely before settling down--I thought it genuine.

 

[cute_girl]

What does inshallah mean? And how is it properly spelled and pronounced? I have a general idea but would appreciate clarification.

I dont know that much arabic,only a few words,but i think isha'allah means if allah wants or if allah commands...