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  #161  
Old 11-29-2004, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
Yes I wonder why the Telegraph is reporting that. I read it and just assumed it to be true. Now Faisal's removal makes sense.
But he hasn't been removed, Madonna :) He's been promoted to a higher rank. That was my point. The Telegraph is way off the mark!
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  #162  
Old 11-29-2004, 07:45 PM
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Quote:

But he hasn't been removed, Madonna :) He's been promoted to a higher rank. That was my point. The Telegraph is way off the mark!
So what you're saying is he's been promoted a higher rank WITHIN the Air Force?
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  #163  
Old 11-29-2004, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
So what you're saying is he's been promoted a higher rank WITHIN the Air Force?
YES :) That's what I am saying. See my previous messages here where I posted an article regarding this.
  #164  
Old 11-29-2004, 08:26 PM
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I've highlighted some passages from the following article that are interesting and not posted before:

Jordanian Prince Concedes Crown Stripped

The Associated Press

Jordan's Prince Hamzah said Monday he was conceding to the wish of King Abdullah II to strip him of his crown as heir to the throne.

Abdullah had chosen Hamzah, now a 24-year-old American college student, as heir apparent to the throne hours after their father - King Hussein - died of cancer in February 1999. The designation was out of respect for Hussein, who is known to have favored Hamzah the most among his 11 children from four marriages.

"I obey the command of my elder brother out of my loyalty, love and obedience," Hamzah told Abdullah in a message Monday.

On Sunday, Abdullah - a ruler with absolute powers which include dissolving parliament and ruling by decree - stripped his half brother and heir apparent of his title as crown prince in an abrupt shake-up aimed at redeeming the full power the king inherited from his late father. The king said he wanted to relieve the prince of his duty and give him space to undertake more responsibilities in state affairs.

Hamzah is Hussein's son from his fourth marriage, to New York-born Lisa Halaby, who became Queen Noor when she converted to Islam upon her marriage to Hussein in 1978.

"I promise I shall always be up to your expectations and confidence in me as a Hashemite Muslim," Hamzah said in the two-page message, made available to The Associated Press.

Abdullah himself became crown prince just 12 days before his father's death, in a major surprise and upheaval, when Hussein stripped the title from his brother, Hassan. At the time, the severely ill Hussein accused Hassan of trying to make a power grab.

Abdullah did not name a successor on Sunday. He can keep the position of crown prince - a largely ceremonial role which entails representing the monarch in state functions - vacant as long as he wishes.



Under the country's constitution, the throne must go to the king's eldest son - Hussein, now age 10. The king may also bestow the crown upon his oldest brother, Faisal, 41.

Speculation mounted Monday that Faisal, who has often been picked as regent when the king is abroad, will be entrusted with more state responsibility.

Faisal, an electronic engineer and a licensed pilot, holds the rank of army major general and serves as chief of the Royal Jordanian Air Force. Recently, however, government officials suggested that Faisal may take up a senior position in the armed forces, possibly deputy chief of staff for air force affairs and technology.


http://www.dailycomet.com/apps/pbcs..../API/411291063
  #165  
Old 11-29-2004, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdas1201
It might be a "minuscule, poor, poverty stricken country" at the moment. But it has very good chances of becoming a developed country in the near future. I am sure Muna would love the fact that her grandson is king, later. Think of it this way, it is a COUNTRY, no matter how poor. King Abdullah holds complete power in the country, like his father before him. Unlike the western region, where the monarch is now just a ceremonial head, in the middle-east, monarchs are still revered and obeyed, completely...

Hussein will inherit the same powerful throne someday. Muna will be care very much, as she gains position thru her son and later, her grandson. After all, being king of a country, no matter how small, is really no small thing...
Good answer!
I agree completely.
Power is power, royalty is royalty, even in a small country like Jordan.
It has never stopped western women from marrying the royalty of "minuscule, poor, poverty stricken" countries.
Just look at Muna and Noor.
Both of these women never remarried either. So they do care very much about which one of King Hussein's sons is in power.


I thought Prince Hamzah's letter was interesting. It doesnt betray much resentment on his part. The one central theme in the letter is that he will do his duty in obeying his elder brother and he uses Quranic verses to support this idea.
The verse about material things being mere conveniences was also significant. He may have been stripped of his crown prince title, but in the end, he's essentially saying that titles aren't that important.
I thought the letter betrays his sadness but also shows him as as someone who's mature enough to handle the present situation.
  #166  
Old 11-30-2004, 12:07 AM
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So if KA decides not to appoint a cp then if something were to happen to KA, prince hussein will inherit the throne, but pf will be acting regeant? See that is more sensible to follow the laws instead of leapfroging people.
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  #167  
Old 11-30-2004, 12:08 AM
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This makes me so mad. I feel so sorry for Queen Noor.
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  #168  
Old 11-30-2004, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balqis
Where in the letter do you see this in particular, Safaa? I do not get this impression.
from the verses of Quraan that he included in his letter: the first about abeying( he accept that just to obey his brother) , and the another that what God have for us ( the life after death) is everlasting and better than what is given to us in this life ( self consolation ).
  #169  
Old 11-30-2004, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
This makes me so mad. I feel so sorry for Queen Noor.
What goes around, comes around.
She'll get over it.
  #170  
Old 11-30-2004, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
What goes around, comes around.
She'll get over it.
What do you mean. Noor gave up her life to marry Hussein and his country. What did she do wrong? It isn't her fought that Hussein loved her more. And I think that Abdullah did this at the worng time. I am so mad! And Rania isn't any better.
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  #171  
Old 11-30-2004, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
What do you mean. Noor gave up her life to marry Hussein and his country. What did she do wrong? It isn't her fought that Hussein loved her more. And I think that Abdullah did this at the worng time. I am so mad! And Rania isn't any better.
Women like Noor dont give up their lives for nothing. Noor became a Queen, with all the power and privileges that come with the title.
I am sorry for her. But what Abdullah and Rania have done to her, she and Hussein did to Prince Hassan who was Crown Prince, not for five years, but for more than thirty years. It is not a secret that Queen Noor was behind Prince Hamzah's elevation to the title of Crown Prince. If it were up to her, her son would be King, especially if King Hussein were still alive.
Queen Noor is an intelligent woman of much dignity. But she's just as susceptible to scheming and ploting like the rest of us.
As mad as many people are right now at Abdullah and Rania, there's no hiding the fact that Queen Noor would'nt have acted any differently.
  #172  
Old 11-30-2004, 03:51 AM
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Unhappy

im still so shocked about this...

I think Hamzah's letter showed how humble he is. I wonder what the real reason behind this is, i wonder if we will ever find out.
I have a friend who just came back from Jordan, he said that there seemed to be unrest in Jordan also there is alot of corruption going on. Maybe KA did this as he needed someone to help him and stand strong beside him. Hamzah is still studyng but im sure if KA needed him Hamzah would have dropped everything and gone home.
I dont know, im confused, sorry if my message doesnt make sense, im thinking out loud. :(
  #173  
Old 11-30-2004, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cut1me
Maybe KA did this as he needed someone to help him and stand strong beside him.
If we take it as KA explained in the letter, P. Hamza can have a strong role in Jordan if he is not CP!

KA said CP is only honorary position which doesn't give any power.
A CP can't help KA nor stand strong beside him.

he said that maybe because:
of the experience of his uncle P. Hassan, he was for many years CP and suddenly he lost the title,
or he wants and QR absolute power, and want to discourage anyone who may dream to have a higher role than him and QR in Jordan.
  #174  
Old 11-30-2004, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abir
or he wants and QR absolute power, and want to discourage anyone who may dream to have a higher role than him and QR in Jordan.
yea probably, talk about being power hungry.
  #175  
Old 11-30-2004, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abir
If we take it as KA explained in the letter, P. Hamza can have a strong role in Jordan if he is not CP!

KA said CP is only honorary position which doesn't give any power.
A CP can't help KA nor stand strong beside him.

he said that maybe because:
of the experience of his uncle P. Hassan, he was for many years CP and suddenly he lost the title,
or he wants and QR absolute power, and want to discourage anyone who may dream to have a higher role than him and QR in Jordan.
\

Well Jordan is basically an absolute monarchy. Im sure Abdullah wants absolute power, with all of his and Rania's talk of democracy aside. And ofcourse, I dont buy the whole "more freedom for Hamzah" rhetoric. Its such a lame excuse. Atleast when King Hussein relieved Prince Hassan of his title, he pointed out the so-called mistakes Hassan had made. Poor Hamzah gets no explanation. He shouldn't have been crown prince in the first place, it would've spared him all this hurt and humiliation.
  #176  
Old 11-30-2004, 05:17 AM
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Hamzah no longer crown prince

Jordan's King Abdullah has relieved his half-brother, Prince Hamzah, of his title as crown prince.

Speaking in a televised address on Sunday, Abdullah said the move would allow his sibling to play a more meaningful part in the country's political life. "I chose you five years ago to be crown prince, rather than my other brothers who are older than you," he said. "Your presence in this symbolic post restricts your freedom and restricts our ability to assign you some responsibilities, as its symbolic nature bars you from shouldering some responsibilities you are capable of conducting in the best possible way."

It is not the first time the issue of succession has provoked surprise in Jordan. Just days before his death in 1999, the previous monarch, King Hussein, unexpectedly withdrew the title of crown prince from his brother Hassan, granting it instead to Abdullah. Soon after acceding to the throne, the new ruler elevated Hamzah to the position of crown prince.

It is well known that King Hussein had a special affection for Hamzah, whom he described as "the delight of my eye". The 24-year-old, who is currently studying politics at an American university, has earned a reputation for his progressive views. In the past he has delivered speeches calling for reform in Muslim thinking, but the role of crown prince involves no political duties.

Source: Hellomagazine
  #177  
Old 11-30-2004, 05:25 AM
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How does he want his sibling to play a more powerful move in Jordan and he is not even 10 years old??He could of left his Brother till his son became 18 years and then moved positions, or does QRania want her son in the spot light now???
  #178  
Old 11-30-2004, 05:30 AM
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Interesting article:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/552273c2-42...00e2511c8.html


I think the reasons it provides for Hamzah's removal are quite probable.
  #179  
Old 11-30-2004, 05:40 AM
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I told you PH will finish school soon and comeback to Jordan which makes him more powerful than what KA would like! KA was so quick and maybe in the letter he wanted to say "CP doesn't have to get power" instead of "CP doesn't have power".

Let's wait and see Jordan in next 10-20-30 years :)
  #180  
Old 11-30-2004, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solange
"Your presence in this symbolic post restricts your freedom and restricts our ability to assign you some responsibilities, as its symbolic nature bars you from shouldering some responsibilities you are capable of conducting in the best possible way."
It will be interesting to see what if any responsibilities are now given to Prince Hamzah. I also do not understand if this is a new redefining of the role of Crown Prince, as King Hussein did not hesitate to heap more and more responsibilty on former Crown Prince Hassan for over three decades, of a very varied kind. Many of these were posts and responsibilties that were ratified by royal degree at the time. I would also like to know what will be the fate of those organisations and institutions that were founded by Prince Hassan and were then removed from his supervison on the grounds that these were the responsibility of the crown prince. Will they pass onto another prince, or if indeed can they remain with the now not crown prince Hamzah should they not be returned to the not crown prince Hassan as in may cases he made a better and more convicing fist of running them, as they were 'his' projects ? Just wondering aloud.

To me, the reason for the abrupt change is quite clear. A crown prince who was fluent in the lanaguage and would or could build on the areas of interests that were set in place by his predecessor would be far too much of a challenge for the king. Even his father, who was so much better grounded than the present king, ultimately felt threatened by a strong heir. The sadness of all this is that is the good of the Jordanian people and the country and region as a whole considered.

I also wonder if the ultimate decision was based on a return to the succession as laid down in the pre 1965 constitution, why on earth King Hussein did not accept (according to his daughter Princess Alia) two offers from Prince Hassan to stand down in favour of the then Prince Abdullah. According to her, in the Kuwaiti newspaper Al Qabas, Prince Hassan offered to stand down when Abdullah turned 18 and also about ten or so years after that. If King Hussein had thought things through to their natural conclusion he would have saved many people a lot of trouble and heartache.

Quote:

It is well known that King Hussein had a special affection for Hamzah, whom he described as "the delight of my eye". Source: Hellomagazine
This affectionate description would appear to be a double edged sword for those on whom it was bestowed as the king also frequently used the exact same phrase to describe his brother Hassan , even as late as six months before the change, and when he gave him the absolute powers of regency when he fell ill again.
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