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  #141  
Old 11-29-2004, 10:33 AM
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It was an expected decision, and I said before that they can find any reason when they want to make the change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
Well by modern, I meant they both appear to have such progressive, liberal ideas. Every time I've seen them talk in various interviews, they're always talking about democracy and giving their people a voice in everything. But from what I've observed, King Abdullah's regime is all about doing what he wants, the way he wants it.
he do what he want when it comes to choosing his successor, it is his right.
it was in 1965 when people asked the king to have an adult crown prince instead of his 3 years son, and they change the constitution to allow the king to choose his brother, as well as giving him the freedom to scrap and give it back to his son.
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  #142  
Old 11-29-2004, 11:30 AM
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I am not really surprised by this. I never thought that Hamzah would be King. I also don't think that Queen Noor is embarassed. She's no idiot and I would think that she knew that it would only be a matter of time before the title of CP was taken away from Hamzah. Did anyone really think that Abdullah wouldn't want his son to be King? I think that is normal. Most parents, especially Kings of functioning monarchies want their sons to be King some day.
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  #143  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetortuga
This was the low-blow that KA has wanted to deal Q. Noor and family for the last 5 years. They felt deprived when KH married her. I'm sure deep in her heart, P. Muna has wanted to see her son become King, and the throne pass through her line. And according to the Constitution, that is the way it should be. I don't think I would have liked to see Hamzah reach his fifties like P. Hassan, and then be stripped of the title of CP. That would have been more cruel. At least this blow came early. P. Hamzah can now move on with the rest of his life, instead of treading on eggshells waiting for his brother to fire him.
Do you really think Muna cares if her grandson is king? She just wants him to be happy--I don't think she cares about a minuscule, poor, poverty stricken Arab country!
  #144  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paloma
Actually, this is the best thing that could ever happen to Hamzah. Given the precarious state of the region, it is best for him and his mother, brother and sisters to get as far away as possible and move on with their lives. It is better for this to have happened to him while he is young and can actually have a future versus having it happen like Hassan or the ex King of Greece Constantine. Constantine has never found a purpose in life and that is not something that I would wish on anyone.
As for Jordan and the King and Queen, I see a repeat of the Pahlavi dynasty.
I agree with you that being Crown Prince of Jordan is not great. I don't see a repeat of the Shah of Iran though--I th8ink Jordan is a little more freer than that.
  #145  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:34 PM
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I read the news last night and I have to say that I was a little shocked. Although many here think that it shouldn't have come as a shock to any of us, King Abdullah did make a premature decision considering the age of his son.

I don't think that it has anything to do with his wanting his son to become king after him. Not right now at least. Prince Hussein is too young and King Abdullah could have made that decision a few years from now when his son is old enough to take on the responsibilities of Crown Prince.

Something must have happened for King Abdullah to have made such a drastic decision.
  #146  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:42 PM
bluetortuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banadoora
Something must have happened for King Abdullah to have made such a drastic decision.
I wonder what Hamzah did to ruffle KA's feathers. Any palace insiders out there who would know?
  #147  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetortuga
I wonder what Hamzah did to ruffle KA's feathers. Any palace outsiders out there who would know?
I've noticed lately that Hamzah hasn't been coming home much and he hasn't been taking on as many responsibilities as Faisal and Ali have. It could have been that his schooling's been getting in the way. And since he may already be in his first year of grad school, he may be tied up with school for a few years. That could be what prompted all of this.
  #148  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:56 PM
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Smile

I do necessarily agree with King Abudullah stripping Prince Hamzah of his title of crown prince. Not only is the king disobeying his late father's wishes, but he creating more problems between the JRF.

However...
The Jordan royal family tree is quite large and complicated due to the fact that King Hussin was married mulitple times and had various children with each of his wives. With the family members each having so many brothers and sons, succession can become very confusing and has the potentially to led to the downfall of the monarchy if a major power struggle were to arise. For that reason, I belief that the JRF should follow the succession practices of the world's other monarchies whereby the monarch's eldest son/daughter is heir and succession is passed through ones children. That way everything is keep simple and future kings/queen will be able to adquately prepare from their future roles.
Therefore, I think King Abdullah should clearly define how sucesssion is to be passed in the Jordian constitution to avoid any more problems.

Here is the Jordan Royal Family's tree for anyone like me who finds it a bit confusing or does know not a lot about the family:

http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/jordan/tree.html
  #149  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:16 PM
bluetortuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banadoora
I've noticed lately that Hamzah hasn't been coming home much and he hasn't been taking on as many responsibilities as Faisal and Ali have. It could have been that his schooling's been getting in the way. And since he may already be in his first year of grad school, he may be tied up with school for a few years. That could be what prompted all of this.
Maybe P Hamzah wanted to pursue further studies abroad, and KA wanted him to come home. Whatever the reason, I think KA was eventaully going to strip Hamzah of the CP title anyway, whether he had a good reason to or not.
  #150  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:17 PM
bluetortuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theprincess
For that reason, I belief that the JRF should follow the succession practices of the world's other monarchies whereby the monarch's eldest son/daughter is heir and succession is passed through ones children. That way everything is keep simple and future kings/queen will be able to adquately prepare from their future roles.
Therefore, I think King Abdullah should clearly define how sucesssion is to be passed in the Jordian constitution to avoid any more problems.
I agree with you. I think KA needs to clear up this mess so that there will be no question about succession in future generations.
  #151  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
For that reason, I belief that the JRF should follow the succession practices of the world's other monarchies whereby the monarch's eldest son/daughter is heir and succession is passed through ones children. That way everything is keep simple and future kings/queen will be able to adquately prepare from their future roles.
Therefore, I think King Abdullah should clearly define how sucesssion is to be passed in the Jordian constitution to avoid any more problems.



I agree with you. I think KA needs to clear up this mess so that there will be no question about succession in future generations.
It's not as easy at it sounds though. KA would have to alter the constitution once again so a brother of the King could NOT inherit the throne. But then we would end up with the same problem KH had: a son too young to inherit the throne and the increased probability of political turmoil if the King dies too soon.

If KA does not alter the constitution then Hussein may name his younger brother as crown prince if his son is not old enough. I don't think a Provisional Crown Prince would work too long in Jordan because, unlike Morocco, Jordan is smack in the middle of 2 Middle East conflicts. Jordan need stability and security and so far no succession rules have provided either.
  #152  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbette
Do you really think Muna cares if her grandson is king? She just wants him to be happy--I don't think she cares about a minuscule, poor, poverty stricken Arab country!
It might be a "minuscule, poor, poverty stricken country" at the moment. But it has very good chances of becoming a developed country in the near future. I am sure Muna would love the fact that her grandson is king, later. Think of it this way, it is a COUNTRY, no matter how poor. King Abdullah holds complete power in the country, like his father before him. Unlike the western region, where the monarch is now just a ceremonial head, in the middle-east, monarchs are still revered and obeyed, completely...

Hussein will inherit the same powerful throne someday. Muna will be care very much, as she gains position thru her son and later, her grandson. After all, being king of a country, no matter how small, is really no small thing...
  #153  
Old 11-29-2004, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetortuga
Maybe P Hamzah wanted to pursue further studies abroad, and KA wanted him to come home. Whatever the reason, I think KA was eventaully going to strip Hamzah of the CP title anyway, whether he had a good reason to or not.
I agree. Hamzah most likely wouldn't have become king. We're going to have to see what happens.
  #154  
Old 11-29-2004, 05:11 PM
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i heard that hamzah has finish with school. maybe ther is a new role for him now,

here is the link

http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/pub...le_14193.shtml
  #155  
Old 11-29-2004, 05:40 PM
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Hamzah's Reply:
(from Petra)

King receives reply letter from Prince Hamzah
Amman/ Nov. 29/ (Petra)-- HRH Prince Hamzah Ben Al
Hussein has sent on Monday a reply letter to His Majesty King
Abdullah's letter addressed to the Prince on Sunday.

Following is the full text of Prince's Hamzah letter:

In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate,

The Almighty Allah says: " ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the
Messenger, and those charged with authority among you." An-Nisa (The
Woman).

Your Majesty, Dear Brother King Abdullah II Ben Al Hussein, May God
keep you,

Having dedicated myself, as our great late father taught us, to
standing by you as a faithful soldier and a devoted supporter, I
obey the command of my elder brother out of my loyalty, love and
obedience.

I promise you that I shall always be up to your expectations, and
confidence in me as a Hashemite Muslim. I shall, God willing, remain
faithful to the message of our fathers and grandfathers from Al
Al-Bayet and to the precious Jordan and its dear people.

The Almighty Allah says: " The (material) things which ye are given
are but the conveniences of this life and the glitter thereof,
but that which is with Allah is better and more enduring." Al-Qasas
(The Narration)

I ask God to endow you good health, care and to be well-pleased with
you and guide you to the right path as the leader and the supporter
of the nation.

Peace and God's mercy and blessing be upon you.

Your faithful brother
Hamzah Ben Al Hussein

Injadat/ Petra
292235 Local NOV 2004
  #156  
Old 11-29-2004, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theprincess
Here is the Jordan Royal Family's tree for anyone like me who finds it a bit confusing or does know not a lot about the family:

http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/jordan/tree.html
poor haya and Ali , also Alia and Abeer, even in the tree the do not have their pic's.

I think Hamzah's reply shows how much :

- disappointed and offended is he
- noble and sublime is he
- eloquent is he.
  #157  
Old 11-29-2004, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
It's not as easy at it sounds though. KA would have to alter the constitution once again so a brother of the King could NOT inherit the throne. But then we would end up with the same problem KH had: a son too young to inherit the throne and the increased probability of political turmoil if the King dies too soon.
You have made a good point about the case of a king's son being too young to take the throne if the king were die unexpectedly. Obviously, the situation in Jordon is a lot more difficult then in Europe where monarchs have no government power and there is peace. But, i still think the JRF must do something to make the line of succession more clear. I mean think what would happen if King Abudullah were to suddenly die before a new crown prince is named, there were be a huge debate over who would become king.
  #158  
Old 11-29-2004, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safaa Batin
I think Hamzah's reply shows how much :

- disappointed and offended is he
Where in the letter do you see this in particular, Safaa? I do not get this impression.
  #159  
Old 11-29-2004, 07:12 PM
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Cant believe that a "reputable" newspaper like The Telegraph is still reporting the misconception about Feisal. It just shows some of the media do not do their work properly or are certain agendas in place?

Jordan's crown prince is dismissed
By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor
(Filed: 29/11/2004)

Jordan's Hashemite royal family was thrown into turmoil last night when King Abdullah abruptly dismissed his half-brother, Prince Hamzeh, as Crown Prince and heir apparent.

The move caught Jordanians by surprise, and they were offered no convincing explanation.

Last month the king removed his full brother, Prince Faisal from the air force, for reasons so far unexplained.

In a letter read out on television, the king said he had taken the decision to remove Prince Hamzeh ostensibly to allow him to be "more free to take up other posts, something which was not possible as crown prince".

"I chose you five years ago to be crown prince, rather than my other brothers who are older than you," he said.

King Abdullah did not name a new crown prince, but the speculation in the capital, Amman, was that he would sooner or later appoint his 10-year-old son, Prince Hussein.

King Abdullah is caught between two raging political fires - Iraqi insurgency to the east and the Palestinian uprising to the west and has publicly steered closer to the United States.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...9/ixworld.html
  #160  
Old 11-29-2004, 07:22 PM
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Yes I wonder why the Telegraph is reporting that. I read it and just assumed it to be true. Now Faisal's removal makes sense. I'm certain he is going to be named a provisional Crown Prince until Hussein comes of age.

Muna must be very pleased. If I was in her place I would be jumping up and down, I think. Regardless of Jordan's little size and influence in world affairs, a king is a king. And I would have my son and grandson be a king of a poor country than one of the hundreds of princes.
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