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  #101  
Old 11-29-2004, 01:38 AM
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What I don't understand is why make Hamza cp if it was only temporarily? To me that was stupid. I realize KH wanted hamza appointed as cp, but I thought it was a permanent position? If KH knew it was only "honorary" why would he make such a request if Hamza wasn't going to be allowed to keep the position.? See, I'm really confused now. The more I think I know about this family, the less I know.

See...I thought I read that...I knew I wasn't imagining things. Someone did say KA wanted them out of Jordan.
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  #102  
Old 11-29-2004, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
What I don't understand is why make Hamza cp if he it was only temporarily? To me that was stupid. I realize KH wanted hamza appointed as cp, but I thought it was a permanent position? If KH knew it was only "honorary" why would he make such a request if Hamza wasn't going to be allowed to keep the position. See, I'm really confused now.
This is how it works in that country...like someone else mentioned: " a troubled country in a troubled region". Even KH appointed his brother Hassan as CP because he needed him to give him support and to preserve the monarchy only later to throw him out and put his son Abdellah. Since KA is eldest son, by constitution, he is the crown prince but he was young at that time..

And like some else also mentioned, they could just easily follow the Moroccan model and the situation will be much clearer..No need to borrow princes for the role of crown prince and throw them later...
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  #103  
Old 11-29-2004, 01:53 AM
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I don't thing the king popularity among Jordanians will be affected alot by that, it does not matter alot for them if hamza, hussain , ali, or faisal will be the next king(by the way i think p Ali is more popular than hamza), that's why the change of succession is not important to them, and we alway think about that as a right just for the royal family , even when P hassan was stripped his position , who was the CP we used to know and like, we respected the king decision and P hassan himself did, at the end as long as it is constitutional and the king is hashimite we have no problem, but what matter is how does P Hamzah now feel, ( and P hassan before) it will be so bad for the prince we like to have this end that is the only thing which offend us .
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  #104  
Old 11-29-2004, 01:58 AM
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Even KH appointed his brother Hassan as CP because he needed him to give him support and to preserve the monarchy only later to throw him out and put his son Abdellah. Since KA is eldest son, by constitution, he is the crown prince but he was young at that time..


Thanks for explaining, but even still why dismiss Hamza so soon? Prince Hussein is still too young to be cp isn't he?
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  #105  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
What I don't understand is why make Hamza cp if it was only temporarily? To me that was stupid. I realize KH wanted hamza appointed as cp, but I thought it was a permanent position? If KH knew it was only "honorary" why would he make such a request if Hamza wasn't going to be allowed to keep the position.? See, I'm really confused now. The more I think I know about this family, the less I know.
it was not only honorary, but permanent, KA needed to first be accepted by his ppl, so he needed Hamzah, who every1 knew was KH's fav son and it had been the late King's wish that he made Hamzah his CP- KA's thinking to be very smart, u can c it from his letter to Hamzah, OMG, don't think he's being .... and that weddding, Hamzah's wed, all the time KA was thinking that in a very few months, can't think any1 can make something so mean to his own brother, KH had specific and serious reason to make his own son CP, back in Jan '99, I can only think KA was feeling Ham's position as a menace to himself and to his son, which was not, of course.
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  #106  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tipper
what about QR, u understimate her role in her husband's life, she did her best to rule out the other Queen , now it's Hamzah's turn, better not to say what I think of this couple, poor Jordan, it's more in trouble than ever.
Actually, I wasn't underestimating anyone... In fact, I'm not really wanting to speculate anything...I was merely repeating what I thought I had read earlier...I just left out QR by mistake.
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  #107  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
Even KH appointed his brother Hassan as CP because he needed him to give him support and to preserve the monarchy only later to throw him out and put his son Abdellah. Since KA is eldest son, by constitution, he is the crown prince but he was young at that time..
Thanks for explaining, but even still why dismiss Hamza so soon? Prince Hussein is still too young to be cp isn't he?
yes he still young, KA could have wait untill he became 18.
but may be he realized that the sooner the better, it will be harder to him and to Hamzah after years. or may be he really want to give Hamzah serious duties.
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  #108  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:10 AM
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WOW!!! I have been reading this thread for awhile now, and it seems almost all of us have same thoughts, about Hamzah, KA, QR and QN. I, myself, feel that a grave injustice has been done to Hamzah (that being my idealist side).

But we live in a real world, and like some one on this thread said, the nature of Middle Eastern monarchies is much different from those of their European counterparts. It might be a BIG issue in the European monarchies as they have already had most of their power struggles and, at present, don't hold the kind of power, KA and other Middle Eastern royal families do. They have the money, the position, and the most important--power. KA, in this case, just used his power. What's so disgusting about that? This is happened millions of times before in other countries around the world and will continue to happen, at least, in the Middle East (it being the unstable region) for some time in the future.

I guess what we find distasteful is it happening in the present times. We live in modern world and accord such things like brother-brother feuds as a thing of the past. Well, I guess we were all in for a surprise, this has happened in the present, right before our very eyes.

Anyways, I would like to know what is the Jordanian people's reaction to this news. How are they taking it? Is there a media agency handling from the King's side to "soften" the blow??
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  #109  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:12 AM
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I don't think KA has any easy choices to make for regent for his young son because he seems untrusting now of all his brothers. Even his full brother Faisal has been taken out of his military position recently as someone here has mentioned. I don't see a good alternative for regent unless it's his uncle Prince Mohammed perhaps. I think KA would never choose P. Ali for this role because Ali is complete Arab and KA's own son Prince Hussein of course is only three-quarter. But there must have been a reason to make this change now that we don't see, considering that Prince Hussein is only ten. The reasoning of K. Hussein was that there should be a capable, adult Crown Prince to ensure the stability of the monarchy. KA has abandoned this reasoning, and for what? He now says this position of Crown Prince is only "honorary" but this is silly, we all know this is not "just" honorary. It also indicates who is next in line to the throne. If you take it away from someone who is not the present monarch's son, then you are also taking away their right to succeed next. Some factors have not been disclosed to us yet, is what I'm thinking.
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  #110  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:19 AM
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"I think KA would never choose P. Ali for this role because Ali is complete Arab and KA's own son Prince Hussein of course is only three-quarter."

Why is this? Why wouldn´t he had picked Ali then?
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  #111  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:22 AM
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[QUOTE=pdas1201]WOW!!! I have been reading this thread for awhile now, and it seems almost all of us have same thoughts, about Hamzah, KA, QR and QN. I, myself, feel that a grave injustice has been done to Hamzah (that being my idealist side).

But we live in a real world, and like some one on this thread said, the nature of Middle Eastern monarchies is much different from those of their European counterparts. It might be a BIG issue in the European monarchies as they have already had most of their power struggles and, at present, don't hold the kind of power, KA and other Middle Eastern royal families do. They have the money, the position, and the most important--power. KA, in this case, just used his power. What's so disgusting about that? This is happened millions of times before in other countries around the world and will continue to happen, at least, in the Middle East (it being the unstable region) for some time in the future.

it would be nice if we all wrote to Hamzah's office , he must be so upset, he has been working so hard .... he did not deserve what his brother, can we call him a brother, did to him- I taped a song in English from JTV- that was in Feb '99- the song sang like that- make your father proud of you- is KH so proud of his eldest son, now -? KA told Hamzah, in the famous article from NY Times- if you will not make our uncle's mistakes, there will be no trouble- of course, Hamzah did not make any mistakes, he even, and that was wrong, pushed his own mother aside in order to please his King ....
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  #112  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdas1201
Anyways, I would like to know what is the Jordanian people's reaction to this news. How are they taking it? Is there a media agency handling from the King's side to "soften" the blow??
I said earlier that jordanians look to it as completely internal issue for the royal family, we know p.hamzah (not very much as he never held power or political duties, actually we know alittle about him) and we don't know p Hussain at all, so we do cannot even compare , both choice are semi equal to us.
I guess the reaction of the rest of jordanians was similar to mine, I was sad and kind of angry for p Hamzah when I heared, but know I get understading that it will not be a big difference, I am now waiting to know what are the coming steps.
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  #113  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:38 AM
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Of course, tipper, I understand he must be upset. But, hopefully in time it will pass. We should look at the bigger picture, if possible, that he will have a FUTURE now. He can do whatever he likes, live wherever he wants, make something out of himself and keep himself and his wife happy, which I thought would have been hard with the constant uncertainty plaguing him (rumors would have reached him as well, that QA is favoring his son over his half brother).

I know now we all feel very bad for Hamzah, after all, he is being deprieved of something, being groomed for practically his whole life. But, at the same time we should be thankful that Hamzah won't have to face the life his uncle did.
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  #114  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:42 AM
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I have a question , how will Hamzah do in the coming exams? It is the end of the semester now, I hope his study will not be affected by this.
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  #115  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safaa Batin
I said earlier that jordanians look to it as completely internal issue for the royal family, we know p.hamzah (not very much as he never held power or political duties, actually we know alittle about him) and we don't know p Hussain at all, so we do cannot even compare , both choice are semi equal to us.
I guess the reaction of the rest of jordanians was similar to mine, I was sad and kind of angry for p Hamzah when I heared, but know I get understading that it will not be a big difference, I am now waiting to know what are the coming steps.
Thanks for answering my question, Safaa Batin. It is as I suspected, people right now don't see a major change in power (after all KA is still king) and the issue with Hamzah and Hussein. Well, as you said, not much is known about Hamzah, basically studying in the US and not in Jordan all that much and Hussein is much to young. The people really won't understand what happened until it comes time for Hussein to take the throne and announce his CP.
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  #116  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:05 AM
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Well good luck Hamza...hope you find much happiness in whatever path you now decide to take...I know he won't see it, but still...
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  #117  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
To me, it just still seems cruel to make someone crown prince then decide to take it away. Up until today, I had never even heard of the cp position being "honorary" or temporary...
I think the late King Hussein is very much to blame in this. I think in the end, he shouldn't have let his feelings, or the persuasion of his wife Noor, rule him. Sure, Hamzah might have been his "favourite," but he still should've respected the inheritance laws. Im sure King Hussein was a good man but in the end, what makes someone a great leader is to do the best for your country. He couldn't possibly have been unaware of the fact that sooner or later, Hamzah would've been replaced by Prince Hussein, just like Prince Hassan was replaced by Abdullah.
Even in other middle eastern monarchies/regimes, I dont see examples of similar conflicts.
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  #118  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdas1201
Thanks for answering my question, Safaa Batin. It is as I suspected, people right now don't see a major change in power (after all KA is still king) and the issue with Hamzah and Hussein. Well, as you said, not much is known about Hamzah, basically studying in the US and not in Jordan all that much and Hussein is much to young. The people really won't understand what happened until it comes time for Hussein to take the throne and announce his CP.
what ppl in Jordan will understand is that the very last wish of their beloved dying late King was not fulfilled,- KH was too trusty and a bit naive, which is surprising for a great man like him.
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  #119  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdas1201
Of course, tipper, I understand he must be upset. But, hopefully in time it will pass. We should look at the bigger picture, if possible, that he will have a FUTURE now. He can do whatever he likes, live wherever he wants, make something out of himself and keep himself and his wife happy, which I thought would have been hard with the constant uncertainty plaguing him (rumors would have reached him as well, that QA is favoring his son over his half brother).

I know now we all feel very bad for Hamzah, after all, he is being deprieved of something, being groomed for practically his whole life. But, at the same time we should be thankful that Hamzah won't have to face the life his uncle did.
I'm sure Hamzah did want to be King 1 day, he did his best to ensure this, I suspect even his wedding to Noor , his hard work, his getting closer and closer to KA and his loosening his ties to his own mum, which was really so unfair, all this tells me he wanted to be king of Jordan 1 day, maybe 'cos he knew that had always been his father's wish, if u remember QN's bio, she wrote that both she and his father had told Hamzah he had to study at Harrow as 1 day he would have been King of Jordan, so it was important to him to continue his studies there.- 1 question, I read all the bros met before KA read the message to Hamzah on TV, was Hashim present, too, what about Hamzah, I bet only Ali, Feisal and KA were there... !
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  #120  
Old 11-29-2004, 03:31 AM
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[QUOTE=~*~Humera~*~] Im sure King Hussein was a good man but in the end, what makes someone a great leader is to do the best for your country. He couldn't possibly have been unaware of the fact that sooner or later, Hamzah would've been replaced by Prince Hussein, just like Prince Hassan was replaced by Abdullah.


Who knows....I'm reaching here I know, but maybe he honestly thought his son, KA, would do the right thing by allowing Hamza to stay in that position.
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