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  #81  
Old 11-28-2004, 10:59 PM
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I just heard the news on CNN. I was so shocked!
While I knew that Prince Hussein would eventually be Crown Prince, I didnt expect King Abdullah to be so heavy-handed and undiplomatic about the whole thing! Its all so appalling.
This reaffirms by belief that King Hussein should never have made Abdullah declare Prince Hamzah the CP. He should've known from his own experience with his brother Hassan that ultimately, Abdullah would've stripped Hamzah of the title and declared his own son Hussein CP. This whole thing could've been avoided if King Hussein had simply followed the law like other monarchs around the world do. The inheritance was meant to go from father to son and so on. But unfortunately we now have a royal family that is divided even further.
Im so disappointed in King Abdullah and Rania. They come across as a modern, intelligent couple. But this recent episode has made them appear petty and dictatorial.
Its all so sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
I can't imagine KA having so much dislike for QN, and of course this is only rumor as far as I know, that he would punish his brother by taking his title so that they (the family) can leave Jordan. That would be way too cruel. I thought the brothers were close? Actually, I thought all the children were close.
True. But a close relationship with a sibling is nothing in comparison to your own flesh and blood. After all, Prince Hassan was Crown Prince for decades, but in the end, King Hussein chose his own sons to succeed him. King Abdullah isnt any different.
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  #82  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:08 PM
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pe
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
True. But a close relationship with a sibling is nothing in comparison to your own flesh and blood. After all, Prince Hassan was Crown Prince for decades, but in the end, King Hussein chose his own sons to succeed him. King Abdullah isnt any different.
Right, I understand that, but some people were suggesting it was to get back at QN in order to run the family out of Jordan...I just can't conceive KA would want to run the family out of Jordan...Isn't that a bit extreme?
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  #83  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:17 PM
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Not necessarily run the family out of Jordan but strip Noor and her sons right to any prominent role. I'm sure Abdullah doesn't have a visceral hatred of Noor (we can never know) but he certainly feels threatened by her and her sons. I honestly don't believe Noor or Hamzah pose any threat but Abdullah certainly feels so. If he didn't, why would he limit Jordan's media from covering Noor's activities and why would he sideline Hamzah to such an extent that no one thought he had even the slightest chance of becoming king?

Someone mentioned previously that FAisal is head of the military in Jordan but I just read on the Telegraph that last month Faisal was removed from his position. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...9/ixworld.html)

You know this could be a major political move by Abdullah. We should ignore all that rubbish about this having no effects on Jordan's stability because it does.

Perhaps Ali is next?

What I don't understand is why in the world he is doing this? If Abdullah wants to insure the continuity of the Hashemite throne than he must surround himself with his brothers - not distance himself from them.
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  #84  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
pe
Right, I understand that, but some people were suggesting it was to get back at QN in order to run the family out of Jordan...I just can't conceive KA would want to run the family out of Jordan...Isn't that a bit extreme?
Oh okay. Yeah I dont think King Abduallh did it to run Queen Noor and her kids out of Jordan. Its simply a matter of wanting his own son to become the next king. Now, if Queen Noor and her kids are offended at that decision and dont want to be in Jordan as much, then I dont blame them one bit.
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  #85  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:28 PM
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Interesting bit of news:

Official sources said the king-met on Sunday with his four brothers, including Hamza, and decided that the crown prince would be relieved of this post.

The king could have acted alone under the 1952 constitution but he opted to take this decision after consultation with his brothers, the sources added on condition of anonymity.

“Your presence in this symbolic post restricts your freedom and restricts our ability to assign you some responsibilities as its symbolic nature bars you from shouldering some responsibilities you are capable of conducting in the best possible way,” the monarch told his half-brother.

Hamza is pursuing a degree at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

King Hussein had advised one week before his death that the crown prince post should not enjoy executive powers.

In the letter, King Abdullah said the post of crown prince would be left vacant. But he noted that his son Hussein, 10, could take up this post in line with the constitution.

-----

I'm guessing Abdullah had made up his mind a long while back. I read another article where it said that the absence of Hamzah from Eid prayers (the first time since Hussein's death) and the addition of Prince Hussein was basically a veiled sign of what was to come.
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  #86  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:30 PM
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Q Noor hasn't spent much time in Jordan since KH died. Maybe KA still has hard feelings about QNoor and her children not bothering to attend his coronation 5 years ago.

The next few days will be very interesting. I wonder why KA is making so many political changes at this time.
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  #87  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
Someone mentioned previously that FAisal is head of the military in Jordan but I just read on the Telegraph that last month Faisal was removed from his position. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...9/ixworld.html)

You know this could be a major political move by Abdullah. We should ignore all that rubbish about this having no effects on Jordan's stability because it does.

Perhaps Ali is next?

What I don't understand is why in the world he is doing this? If Abdullah wants to insure the continuity of the Hashemite throne than he must surround himself with his brothers - not distance himself from them.
I'm just curious...why would Ali be next? He wouldn't pose any threat to King Abdullah.
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  #88  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
Im so disappointed in King Abdullah and Rania. They come across as a modern, intelligent couple. But this recent episode has made them appear petty and dictatorial.Its all so sad.
Being "intelligent" does not make one nice and compassionate...
[Yes, ka and rania are modern because they dress fashionably..that's all]
[Intelligent: there are many kinds of intelligence...]

Actually, I am NOT surprised of the last move of KA and Rania. This is who they are...I am including both names because i believe she had a say in this...after all, Hussein is her son...

This succession to the throne has been always problematic in this family especially since King Talal Ben Abdellah was stripped of his throne in 1952 under the excuse that he was phychologically UNbalanced.
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  #89  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
I'm just curious...why would Ali be next? He wouldn't pose any threat to King Abdullah.
I'm just speculating. I don't think Faisal posed a threat to Abdullah either but that Abdullah is just distancing himself. Perhaps he thinks it's better to hand the job to a non-royal? I don't know.

What I'm trying to say is that this Hamzah thing is not just one minor episode. I think it suggests a major shift in thought on the part of Abdullah.
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  #90  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:41 PM
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I read some years ago the KA and Q Noor had a dispute over money. Apparently KH left QN and her children the lion's share of his estate. KA dismayed over his stepmother's expenditures and ordered an audit of all her accounts. I wonder if disputes over funds factored into KA's decision.

If there is a rumbling noise coming from the Royal compound in Amman, it is K Hussein turning in his grave.
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  #91  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
I'm just speculating. I don't think Faisal posed a threat to Abdullah either but that Abdullah is just distancing himself. Perhaps he thinks it's better to hand the job to a non-royal? I don't know.

What I'm trying to say is that this Hamzah thing is not just one minor episode. I think it suggests a major shift in thought on the part of Abdullah.
Ok..Just trying to understand what you meant by that. Thanks for the clarification.
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  #92  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:43 PM
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I wonder why Abdullah didn't have Hamzah read his own resignition. It would have been slightly more credible had Hamzah said he didn't want to be Crown Prince because it prevented him from serving Jordan than to have Abdullah say it.
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  #93  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
Not necessarily run the family out of Jordan but strip Noor and her sons right to any prominent role. I'm sure Abdullah doesn't have a visceral hatred of Noor (we can never know) but he certainly feels threatened by her and her sons. I honestly don't believe Noor or Hamzah pose any threat but Abdullah certainly feels so. If he didn't, why would he limit Jordan's media from covering Noor's activities and why would he sideline Hamzah to such an extent that no one thought he had even the slightest chance of becoming king?
I think that the one way in which Queen Noor and her sons are rivals to Abdullah and Rania, is popularity. I can't emphasize that enough. I have studied enough history to know that when it comes to popularity, a monarch can never tolerate a rival..because thats where much of his/her power, legitimacy comes from. That is precisely one of the reasons why King Abdullah doesnt like any other member of the royal family to outshine him or his wife in the media.
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  #94  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:47 PM
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Quote:

I think that the one way in which Queen Noor and her sons are rivals to Abdullah and Rania, is popularity. I can't emphasize that enough. I have studied enough history to know that when it comes to popularity, a monarch can never tolerate a rival..because thats where much of his/her power, legitimacy comes from. That is precisely one of the reasons why King Abdullah doesnt like any other member of the royal family to outshine him or his wife in the media.
You're so right Humera. Isn't Hamzah always mentioned in the press as the son who most resembles his father in looks, bearings, voice, charm, etc? And who can beat the late King Hussein in terms of popularity??

Abdullah and Rania - for all their intelligence, style, etc - aren't loved in Jordan the way Hussein and yes, even Queen Noor - were.

I don't think, however, that this would have posed a serious threat to Abdullah's reign. Just an inconvenience. Perhaps Abdullah thought it to be too much of an inconvenience?
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  #95  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon
Being "intelligent" does not make one nice and compassionate...
[Yes, ka and rania are modern because they dress fashionably..that's all]
[Intelligent: there are many kinds of intelligence...]

Actually, I am NOT surprised of the last move of KA and Rania. This is who they are...I am including both names because i believe she had a say in this...after all, Hussein is her son...

This succession to the throne has been always problematic in this family especially since King Talal Ben Abdellah was stripped of his throne in 1952 under the excuse that he was phychologically UNbalanced.
Well by modern, I meant they both appear to have such progressive, liberal ideas. Every time I've seen them talk in various interviews, they're always talking about democracy and giving their people a voice in everything. But from what I've observed, King Abdullah's regime is all about doing what he wants, the way he wants it.
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  #96  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
I think that the one way in which Queen Noor and her sons are rivals to Abdullah and Rania, is popularity. I can't emphasize that enough. I have studied enough history to know that when it comes to popularity, a monarch can never tolerate a rival..because thats where much of his/her power, legitimacy comes from. That is precisely one of the reasons why King Abdullah doesnt like any other member of the royal family to outshine him or his wife in the media.
Bravo Humera...POPULARITY...KA & Rania do NOT feel Comfortable about someone else being more popular than them...

PS: popularity and all its implications.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
Well by modern, I meant they both appear to have such progressive, liberal ideas. Every time I've seen them talk in various interviews, they're always talking about democracy and giving their people a voice in everything. But from what I've observed, King Abdullah's regime is all about doing what he wants, the way he wants it.
Yep..talk is cheap...one can say whatever s/he wants...but actions are something else....
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  #97  
Old 11-29-2004, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
You're so right Humera. Isn't Hamzah always mentioned in the press as the son who most resembles his father in looks, bearings, voice, charm, etc? And who can beat the late King Hussein in terms of popularity??

Abdullah and Rania - for all their intelligence, style, etc - aren't loved in Jordan the way Hussein and yes, even Queen Noor - were.

I don't think, however, that this would have posed a serious threat to Abdullah's reign. Just an inconvenience. Perhaps Abdullah thought it to be too much of an inconvenience?
And perhaps he's afraid that the "inconvenience" could one day threaten his hold on the throne. It may sound unlikely, but stranger things have happened. King Abdullah isn't anything like any of the modern European monarchs who are little more than mere figureheads. Abdullah, however, has a lot more power. If his power is threatened in any way, he's likely to respond severely. To me it all sounds like something out of the middle ages or even a hundred years ago. But then the Jordanian monarchy, like most other middle eastern regimes, is different.
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  #98  
Old 11-29-2004, 12:14 AM
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Quote:

And perhaps he's afraid that the "inconvenience" could one day threaten his hold on the throne. It may sound unlikely, but stranger things have happened. King Abdullah isn't anything like any of the modern European monarchs who are little more than mere figureheads. Abdullah, however, has a lot more power. If his power is threatened in any way, he's likely to respond severely. To me it all sounds like something out of the middle ages or even a hundred years ago. But then the Jordanian monarchy, like most other middle eastern regimes, is different.
Yes - anything is possible.

How do you all think the decision will affect Jordanians' perception of Abdullah? I think his popularity is going to sink even more. Sure now you're going to have a half-Palestinian crown prince as opposed to a half-American crown prince but considering that Hamzah was more popular than Ali, I don't think ethnicity is going to play a role. I think - I hope - Jordanianians are going to view this for what it seems like it is - a power grab.
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  #99  
Old 11-29-2004, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
Yes - anything is possible.

How do you all think the decision will affect Jordanians' perception of Abdullah? I think his popularity is going to sink even more. Sure now you're going to have a half-Palestinian crown prince as opposed to a half-American crown prince but considering that Hamzah was more popular than Ali, I don't think ethnicity is going to play a role. I think - I hope - Jordanianians are going to view this for what it seems like it is - a power grab.
I agree. Both Abdullah and Rania are going to see their popularity decline. I dont see why Abdullah couldnt have waited. These are tense times in the Middle East and indeed, the rest of the world. I feel bad for Hamzah's sake because he was trying so hard to fit into his role. He even got married at such a young age to strengthen his position. But I think the one positive in all of this is that atleast now he wont be left dangling in the air. Atleast now he doesnt have to pretend. Its better that he knows his fate now rather than waiting for decades, like Prince Hassan.
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  #100  
Old 11-29-2004, 12:35 AM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E
Yea he was only 19 when he was named crown prince and he spent 5 years of his life ( I must say the most beautiful 5 years of anyones life),serving and acting as A crown prince,he worked so hard and he probably didn't enjoy his time as any other guy in his age,and then when he turnewd 24 he got married,maybe u never know this wud give him the chance to spend better quality of time with his wife and his future small family,everything in this life happens for a reason...I believe in this so much.
do u really believe it ? so, KA is doing it for the benefit of Hamzah, I just want to say that's a shame, Hamzah was growing up and as he got married to his cousin, maybe he was getting too popular , KA and his wife got scared, of course, he made a promise to his dying father knowing he would 1 day make hs oen son CP, but he had not the guts to tell his father, KH made a great mistake, he believed in his eldest son, he should have listened to US gov officers and to QN, he should have made Hamzah his CP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
Not necessarily run the family out of Jordan but strip Noor and her sons right to any prominent role. I'm sure Abdullah doesn't have a visceral hatred of Noor (we can never know) but he certainly feels threatened by her and her sons. I honestly don't believe Noor or Hamzah pose any threat but Abdullah certainly feels so. If he didn't, why would he limit Jordan's media from covering Noor's activities and why would he sideline Hamzah to such an extent that no one thought he had even the slightest chance of becoming king?
he wants them out of Jordan, he already succedeeded with QN, now it's Hamzah and Hashim's turn, he was not really smart, he understimateds J ppl's love to KH , when P Hasan was destituted , he was by KH, KA can't really believe he can do everything he likes and get away with it, he's not his father....

Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
Someone mentioned previously that FAisal is head of the military in Jordan but I just read on the Telegraph that last month Faisal was removed from his position. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...9/ixworld.html)

You know this could be a major political move by Abdullah. We should ignore all that rubbish about this having no effects on Jordan's stability because it does.

Perhaps Ali is next?

What I don't understand is why in the world he is doing this? If Abdullah wants to insure the continuity of the Hashemite throne than he must surround himself with his brothers - not distance himself from them.
no, not Ali, I wonder , can he make his underage son CP ?
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