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  #261  
Old 12-03-2004, 10:24 AM
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Angry ??????????????????????????'''

I read on -The Star online- that " the King - officials say privately- will let Hamzah in on private matters " -what does it mean ??????????
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  #262  
Old 12-03-2004, 11:18 AM
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P. Hamzah will have to update his website; I wonder if he will still maintain a website now that he is no longer CP. Who knows, may be P. Hamzah will be appointed to serve in a highly influential capacity in some area of government. Or maybe he could prove successful in the business world.

I think losing the CP title was the best thing that could have happened to him. He has more choices now.
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  #263  
Old 12-03-2004, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinneret5764
P. Hamzah will have to update his website; I wonder if he will still maintain a website now that he is no longer CP. Who knows, may be P. Hamzah will be appointed to serve in a highly influential capacity in some area of government. Or maybe he could prove successful in the business world.

I think losing the CP title was the best thing that could have happened to him. He has more choices now.
I agree with you kinneret5764, now he can enjoy his life and build his professional future. It's better that the "dream" of CP doesn't last years.
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  #264  
Old 12-03-2004, 12:23 PM
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Although I think KA was right in resolving the succession matter once and for all, the truth is that P. Hamzah has been subject of much jealousy for anumber of years. Some attribute this to QN's plotting and scheming; but other think it is because of his noble character. He has proved to be a loyal son and brother to his family, a loyal soldier. Someone is bound to be jealous of that.
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  #265  
Old 12-03-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abir
P. Hamza web site still figure "PH Crown Prince". Maybe he doesn't have yet the time to change that! There is also what KA said about duties of CP:

"The Crown Prince is ... the Throne's reserve & the King's right-hand man. He is the one being prepared today to carry out responsabilities that will be given to him in future."
His Majesty King Abdullah II (Al Hayat Newspaper, 12 May 1999)


Is this what embrassed KA?
I found also a picture of PH with KA and QR in the coronation day. I think it was taken later that day, QR hair is different :) and also the king suit
His website was updated with his reply letter to King Abdullah.

I hope he doesn't get rid of his website.
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  #266  
Old 12-03-2004, 06:23 PM
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i spoke to a friend of mine who goes to jordan alot and she says that she has never seen any pics of P.Hamzah hung on the walls. There is a pic of KA and the late KH. She also told me that when KH was still alive and king all the gov't buildings had pics of him and P.Hassan who was CP at the time. She always thought it was strange that there was never a pic of P.Hamzah
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  #267  
Old 12-03-2004, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cut1me
i spoke to a friend of mine who goes to jordan alot and she says that she has never seen any pics of P.Hamzah hung on the walls. There is a pic of KA and the late KH. She also told me that when KH was still alive and king all the gov't buildings had pics of him and P.Hassan who was CP at the time. She always thought it was strange that there was never a pic of P.Hamzah


yes...she's right. ( ilove it when people agree with me,LOL)
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  #268  
Old 12-03-2004, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinneret5764
You have a point. Unfortunately, there isn't much news on Hamzah; and there never really has been. It seems as if the Jordanian media deliberately try to publish as little as possible about him or his siblings. This could be the norm of the future; I'm sure there are those who would like him sidelined forever, by not not publishing or publicizing anything thing that he does, good or bad.

Although I think KA was right in resolving the succession matter once and for all, the truth is that P. Hamzah has been subject of much jealousy for anumber of years. Some attribute this to QN's plotting and scheming; but other think it is because of his noble character. He has proved to be a loyal son and brother to his family, a loyal soldier. Someone is bound to be jealous of that.
You have touched on something here, kinneret. I think perhaps in future the royal family in Jordan maybe quite streamlined, just like it is been slowly done in Britain and elsewhere ie. the monarch his or her spouse, their heirs etc. will be the primary focus. Large royal families spell disaster, I think, as you have too many personalities, too many possible clashes and so on. So maybe the news about Hamzah is a new beginning for the JRF and it will give the other members much more of a private life, which I think is definitely a good thing. It's nothing to do with vanity so that the King and Queen have all the "power and prestige", but just a natural progression and streamlining. You can look at it this way also. It doesn't have to be all negative.


We haven't really looked at things from Prince Hussein's perspective. He is the rightful heir to his father, despite the naming of Hamzah as Crown Prince. I am sure, knowing what an honourable young man Hamzah is, he would never want to be seen as robbing his nephew of his true rights. I've laways said that whoever's destiny it is to be the next king, he will be...
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  #269  
Old 12-03-2004, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balqis
We haven't really looked at things from Prince Hussein's perspective. He is the rightful heir to his father, despite the naming of Hamzah as Crown Prince. I am sure, knowing what an honourable young man Hamzah is, he would never want to be seen as robbing his nephew of his true rights. I've laways said that whoever's destiny it is to be the next king, he will be...
Well, I totally agree! I think your statement about Hamzah is totally on target. And Islam is most clear; all things are in Allah's hands....so why worry? KH said that before he died. Westerners--like me--have this belief we have more control than we do.....the Islamic philosophy, I have found, is a much more peaceful, less stressful way to live one's life. All things--and I paraphrase you here--will turn out as they are meant to be. So, why worry or speculate?

What does inshallah mean? And how is it properly spelled and pronounced? I have a general idea but would appreciate clarification.

Noor Restricting Access to KH is Wrong

There are photos of KH at Mayo with Feisal, Haya, Ali and Alia.....and other children so I don't believe Noor prevented them from seeing him. She also hosted his sister and brother often....as well as many Arabic leaders. Haya was the one who noticed big change in KH when she was at Mayo with him while Noor and other children took a dinner break. Many of the children travelled, schedules permitting, to Mayo and accompanied KH and Noor to and from Mayo on both trips. I look for the best in people, true, but there are Associated Press reports of all the children being around him at Mayo and as he lay dying in Amman. She was encouraged by all the children, led by Haya, not to spare them the facts and give them truth at all times about his condition. All of the sons (KA may have been in Amman tending to business) met with doctors, at Noor's urging, so they could fully understand and ask questions about his condition and prognosis. No, I do not believe Noor would keep his children from him and there is substantive evidence she did not. She's not a cruel person. I found it most poignant that of all the children she said she felt most strongly for Abir, Haya and Ali who had already lost one parent......She did not say same of her children.


Yes, let's forget the women!!!!!

KA made the decision. That was his choice.

QR.....I missed it. I didn't see her at parliamentary opening but rely on photo posts as I'm in U.S.

Haven't heard a word from QN on subject. She always said she would support line of succession. That's all I've heard. Has someone read something different? Like QR, she has much to focus on.....4 children plus good relations with many step children, her own family--mom, sister and brother, issues like landmines, KHF and QNF,........I wasn't always so sure about her wanting Hamzah to be King. She stated in book, interviews she felt KA was a good choice as he'd had time to "live life of his own choosing w/o the presssures of being CP or King...and she wanted same for Hamzah!" Now we can say she was being politically correct but as someone who did just that--dropped out of Princeton and traveled widely before settling down--I thought it genuine.
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  #270  
Old 12-04-2004, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
What does inshallah mean? And how is it properly spelled and pronounced? I have a general idea but would appreciate clarification.
I dont know that much arabic,only a few words,but i think isha'allah means if allah wants or if allah commands...
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  #271  
Old 12-04-2004, 07:11 PM
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KH had to do the same kind of "begging," if you will, for aid. Not pleasant and very humbling. In fact in one of those early anti-Noor articles, the headline was "A King Begs; A Queen Shops" and showed him meeting with an Arabic leader while she was shown looking through window of jewelry store. So, it's a job which is not one to be coveted. Noor said "you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy--unless you were convinced they were right person for it." Now, being a prince is not such a bad thing.....title, money, prestige,......Hamzah will have a great life w/o being King. And I bet young Prince Hussein is being well-schooled in "art" of being a King. As I've said before, he has great parents--pragmatic, well-educated and QR knows how to make her points....for someone who was not prepared to be a Queen, she seems to have caught on quickly. I have heard she is a great speaker AND knows how to convince others on a 1-1 level about issues she feels strongly about.

No one has weighed in on Prince Feisal. Does he keep that low of a profile? Do the Jordanians like him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cute_girl
I dont know that much arabic,only a few words,but i think isha'allah means if allah wants or if allah commands...
Thank you. That is very helpful. I thought it was something like that but was unsure (I had to call Aleppo once and, my goodness, I didn't know any arabic except some idea of that phrase....which I used over and over again. People must have thought I was nuts!)
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  #272  
Old 12-04-2004, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
Thank you. That is very helpful. I thought it was something like that but was unsure (I had to call Aleppo once and, my goodness, I didn't know any arabic except some idea of that phrase....which I used over and over again. People must have thought I was nuts!)
Inshallah means "God Willing."
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  #273  
Old 12-04-2004, 07:45 PM
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Queen Noor's first public statement on P. Hamzah's "demotion", This is from Scotsman.com news:

5:59pm (UK)
Ousted Crown Prince Will Continue to Serve, Says Queen

"PA"


Jordan’s Queen Noor said today her son will continue to serve Jordan, despite King Abdullah’s decision to strip him of the crown as heir to the Hashemite throne.

Noor neither referred to Abdullah nor his decision – an unusual move in Jordan, where the absolute monarch is venerated by his family and subjects alike.

The absence of any mention of Abdullah in Noor’s written statement underlined her disappointment in the ousting of her son that she had hoped would rule Jordan.

Abdullah had chosen Prince Hamzah, now a 24-year-old American college student, as his heir hours after their father – King Hussein – died of cancer in February 1999. The designation was widely seen out of respect for Hussein, who is known to have favoured Hamzah among his 11 children from four marriages. The late king often described Hamzah publicly as the “delight of my eye”.

In a written statement, Noor said Hamzah “has always been a source of pride and joy for me, his family and his father King Hussein whose indomitable faith lives on in him.”

“God willing, he will continue to fulfil King Hussein’s wishes for him to serve Jordan,” added Noor, who is touring the United States. “My faith in him and in our beloved Jordan is constant and undiminished.”

On Sunday, Abdullah – who enjoys absolute powers which include dissolving parliament and ruling by decree – stripped his half brother and heir of his title as crown prince in an abrupt shake-up aimed at redeeming the full power the king inherited from Hussein.

The king said he wanted to relieve Hamzah of his duty and give him space to undertake more responsibilities in state affairs.

A day later, Hamzah told Abdullah he was conceding to “the command of my elder brother out of my loyalty, love and obedience.”

Hamzah is Hussein’s son from his fourth marriage, to New York-born Lisa Halaby, who became Queen Noor when she converted to Islam upon her marriage to Hussein in 1978.

Under the country’s constitution, the current heir is the king’s eldest son – Hussein, now age 10. The king may also bestow the crown upon his oldest brother, Faisal, 41.

s
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  #274  
Old 12-05-2004, 12:11 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
Yes, KH had to do the same kind of "begging," if you will, for aid. Not pleasant and very humbling. In fact in one of those early anti-Noor articles, the headline was "A King Begs; A Queen Shops" and showed him meeting with an Arabic leader while she was shown looking through window of jewelry store. So, it's a job which is not one to be coveted. Noor said "you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy--unless you were convinced they were right person for it." Now, being a prince is not such a bad thing.....title, money, prestige,......Hamzah will have a great life w/o being King. And I bet young Prince Hussein is being well-schooled in "art" of being a King. As I've said before, he has great parents--pragmatic, well-educated and QR knows how to make her points....for someone who was not prepared to be a Queen, she seems to have caught on quickly. I have heard she is a great speaker AND knows how to convince others on a 1-1 level about issues she feels strongly about.

No one has weighed in on Prince Feisal. Does he keep that low of a profile? Do the Jordanians like him?
I've read , don't know if any1 has ever read it-" Looking ahead", in Hamzah's official site, if u read it, it's obvious he did not expect to lose his title, I felt sad when I read all he meant to do for his country and his ppl as CP- Feisal ? as a Regent, yes, the best choice, really, at least he would know, it will only be for the next 8 years- it looks he's a nice guy. I think he's the only 1 KA can choose as a - what would he be called- not really CP..... Ali, I can't c him for the job. Hash, no way, of course. BTW, will we c Hamzah and his brother , his 2 sis, again in Jordan ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinneret5764
Queen Noor's first public statement on P. Hamzah's "demotion", This is from Scotsman.com news:
QN's always a great woman.... I liked it- he will continue to fulfill KH's wishes....-that says it all. She only mentions Jordan, KH and Hamzah, never KA.... She's that great !
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  #275  
Old 12-05-2004, 01:26 AM
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I was just thinking how much KA reminds me of King Saul in the Bible. Saul was jealous of David and tried very hard to have him killed, in spite of all the military victories that David had achieved on his behalf. Saul even tried to have David killed on his wedding night - David was married to Saul's daughter. In spite of all that, David never rose his hand against Saul. David was on the run for years and could have killed Saul on a number of occasions.. David eventually became King of Israel after Saul fell on his own sword. Saul's eldest son Jonathan died in battle. The rest of Saul's sons were eventually killed off.

History is littered with examples of payback. While I wish no evil on KA, QR or any member of the JRF, I can't help but think that KA's treatment of P. Hamzah is going to come back to haunt him in the future. Hamzah has remained loyal in spite of being humiliated by KA. In the end it is KA who's looking really bad, just like Saul.
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  #276  
Old 12-05-2004, 02:45 AM
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Regarding the Newsweek article:


First, I'm glad to see Western media is getting a bit more accurate about KA and the JRF in general. I don't we would have read an article like this in 2000, 2001, or even 2002. After that initial period of (GASP!) an Arab queen who does not wear hijab and (GASP!) an Arab king who can speak English without an accent, I think Western journalists are smarting up.

Second, I think the article has captured exactly the reasons behind KA's decision. It makes perfect sense and I imagine any of us in the situation would have felt threatened; however, an intelligent leader would have noticed the problem head on and would not have made Hamzah crown prince in the first place. My problem is not with Hamzah or Hussein becoming King so much as it is with the fact that a king can arbitrarily change the title of crown prince according to his whims.
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  #277  
Old 12-05-2004, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipper
sorry, I did not read it, I replied be4e posting my previous message, proud of what, she should have been in Jordan..... at his side- at least, I read it in 1 of the hundreds of newspapers which wrote about Hamzah losing his title, well, QN was left- I'm quoting the newspaper- with a sour taste in her mouth.
how do we know she wasnt there? I dont think she would have let him go by himself. Unless P.Hamzah went back to Jordan not knowing what was going to happen, maybe he was going just for a few days to see family.

However one thing i noticed about Jordan press all they write about is KA, QR and P.muna, they hardly mention any other of the royals

Quote:
Originally Posted by madonna23
Regarding the Newsweek article:


First, I'm glad to see Western media is getting a bit more accurate about KA and the JRF in general. I don't we would have read an article like this in 2000, 2001, or even 2002. After that initial period of (GASP!) an Arab queen who does not wear hijab and (GASP!) an Arab king who can speak English without an accent, I think Western journalists are smarting up.
you have to admit its embarrassing having an Arab king who doesnt speak arabic properly or speaks it with an accent
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  #278  
Old 12-05-2004, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinneret5764
I was just thinking how much KA reminds me of King Saul in the Bible. Saul was jealous of David and tried very hard to have him killed, in spite of all the military victories that David had achieved on his behalf. Saul even tried to have David killed on his wedding night - David was married to Saul's daughter. In spite of all that, David never rose his hand against Saul. David was on the run for years and could have killed Saul on a number of occasions.. David eventually became King of Israel after Saul fell on his own sword. Saul's eldest son Jonathan died in battle. The rest of Saul's sons were eventually killed off.

History is littered with examples of payback. While I wish no evil on KA, QR or any member of the JRF, I can't help but think that KA's treatment of P. Hamzah is going to come back to haunt him in the future. Hamzah has remained loyal in spite of being humiliated by KA. In the end it is KA who's looking really bad, just like Saul.
it will surely haunt him til the day of his death, this is the beginning of the end, I have a feeling what the horrible couple did to Hamzah and QN will being bad luck to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cut1me
how do we know she wasnt there? I dont think she would have let him go by himself. Unless P.Hamzah went back to Jordan not knowing what was going to happen, maybe he was going just for a few days to see family.


However one thing i noticed about Jordan press all they write about is KA, QR and P.muna, they hardly mention any other of the royals
Hamzah was summoned in a haste and he knew what was going to happen to him. Of course, if u look at petra pix, u'll c Muna more often than, say, last month- think of that woman, she's been waiting for this for 26 years...... why did KH forbide Dina to visit Jordan and her own daughter for years, while he let Muna stay in Jordan ?
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  #279  
Old 12-05-2004, 08:05 PM
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Well let's get things started. Time Magazine's take on P. Hamzah's dismissal:

Notebook | Jordan Long Live The King
Palace intrigue in Jordan

By
SCOTT MACLEOD AND HASSAN FATTAH


Sunday, Dec. 05, 2004
Succession plots are brewing inside Jordan's Hashemite dynasty. Reversing a deathbed wish of the late King Hussein, King Abdullah II stunned his subjects last week by summoning Crown Prince Hamzah — his half brother — from a holiday and abruptly sacking him as heir to the throne. "It was a complete surprise," said Mustafa Hamarneh, a prominent Jordanian political analyst.

Hamzah, eldest son of the late King Hussein and American-born Queen Noor, nearly succeeded Hussein in 1999 when the monarch, dying of cancer, dismissed his brother, longtime Crown Prince Hassan. So close was Hamzah to his father that even Abdullah, then a 36-year-old military officer, assumed that his younger half brother, then 18, would get the royal nod. But roughly two weeks before his death, Hussein opted for Abdullah's maturity and experience — but made it clear that he should in turn make Hamzah his crown prince and "critical partner." Abdullah acceded, but never truly accepted Hamzah. Abdullah, for example, never gave Hamzah important tasks — or even a ranking seat at the official dining table.

Though Jordan's royals have publicly united around the latest switch, tongues are still wagging about this new burst of palace infighting. In his dismissal letter, Abdullah said he had decided to "free" the Sandhurst graduate of his "symbolic" post in order to let him undertake unspecified responsibilities and missions. Hamzah's terse reply quoted a Koranic verse, saying simply, "Obey ... those charged with authority."

Abdullah said he would now give the Hashemite vacancy his "sincere attention." Many assume that he always wanted his own bloodline to succeed him. Until he formally announces a new crown prince, 10-year-old Hussein, the eldest of Abdullah's three children with Queen Rania, will be the Kingdom's de facto No. 2.
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  #280  
Old 12-05-2004, 08:22 PM
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Urrrrrr...this makes me soooooooooooooooo mad! I sometimes wish that KH would have just name Hamzah as king, but he was too young. It is just fate that KH had to die so early. But still KA did not honor his father's wishes at all!!!! WHat a shame.
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