The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[Somebody]

Is mobilty issues with her knees not a health problem?

A very minor one. She had knee surgery in 2005 (when queen) and in 2016 (3 years after abdicationl) so nothing to do with her functioning as queen nor with abdication. She never had to appoint a regent either. So, yes, she has some minor issues that come with age but very limited compared to for example the number of times Harald is not able to fulfill his duties as king (evidenced by regencies of Haakon because of his father's health issues) nor comparable to Margrethe who is unfortunately looking forward to a long trajectory of recovery. For now, the Scandinavian monarchs however seem to refrain from abdicating - even when they are only partly able to fulfill the job as they once did,

 

[Somebody]

so, why cant teh queen do less duties, if she is older and not in the best of health, and let Mary and Fred take over more duties?

Isnt that what has happened over the last few years and something that will only further increase in the next few months?

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

The stamina of the people vehemently arguing that QMII, who has repeatedly refuted the notion, should abdicate sure is... something

But an argument that she's somehow "selfish" for not abdicating is just mind-numbingly ignorant. To QMII, the onus of being a monarch is for life. That you, Mr. Hansen from down the street or the Princess formerly known as Queen Beatrix think different is perfectly fine but it doesn't make QMII's understanding of the role selfish.

And talking about a Queen "we rarely see" or who "can do less duties"? Seriously?! ? Are we talking about the same person here?

A quick calculation of just the deficient DRF calendar tells us QMII had 121 engagements last year (and that's counting all her tour days as one whole engagement because I was in a hurry). If we cut off the "fluff" that's to be expected of a monarch (such as receiving new dignitaries or a NY speech), we're down to 94. That's still a whopping 24 engagements more than Frederik. AND they've been carried out in near-constant back pain. Come on now.

 

[Denville]

Isnt that what has happened over the last few years and something that will only further increase in the next few months?

I have no idea

 

[Muhler]

i presume your post is mainly directed at me.

as per your definition i am mind-numbingly ignorant, because i believe a monarch should abdicate if she can no longer fulfill most of the many duties that comes with the job. including statevisits, visiting all parts of the realm etc.

especially if there is an heir in perfect working order, in his prime and who has a lot of experience.

if QMII becomes confined to a wheelchair or is otherwise no longer mobile after her surgery - she is turning 83! - we will not see her much on the job.
so insisting on staying on after this point, would IMO be stubborn, rather than rational.

- this is my opinion and i am for other reasons not going into a long argument.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

No, not really. I mean, unless you consider QMII selfish for not abdicating which is what I called mind-numbingly ignorant. In which case, if the shoe fits...

And who says QMII is unable to undertake state visits and visiting all parts of her realm?

 

[Muhler]

thank you, i love you too.

i thought we were discussing IF she would no longer be mobile after her surgery.

 

[maria-olivia]

Would the fact she is a heavy smoker have effects on her surgery?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Abdication does not mean: disappear altogether. Princess Beatrix, Grand-Duke Jean and Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte, King Albert and Queen Paola, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía, all of them are (or were) visible.

The idea should be that an abdication can be a benefit for the monarchy. No one can deny that a King Felipe or a King Philippe have brought a new spark of energy into their monarchies. In this era of ever advancing ages, an abdication should not be seen as "negative'.

 

[Toledo]

she has also said she could abdicate for health reasons.

i doubt the public would accept a monarch we rarely see on the job.
that would reflect poorly on QMII. ie: seen as stubborn.

apart from that it is time for m&f to take the stage. abdication or retiring does not mean oblivion. she could still act as rigsforstander and advisor.

? Glad to see you posting ? and I'm going to miss your long and interesting messages. Don't abdicate yourself and best wishes on your recovery.

Re QMII, if her condition requires extensive post-surgery therapy maybe she will consider letting Frederick take over so she can retire and concentrate on her well-being. The title King/Queen Emeritus should be now a standard on monarchs that decide to let the younger generation take charge. Her cousin Queen Sofia of Spain is Emeritus and still represents the family but has scaled her activities down as she ages.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

? Glad to see you posting ? and I'm going to miss your long and interesting messages. Don't abdicate yourself and best wishes on your recovery.

Re QMII, if her condition requires extensive post-surgery therapy maybe she will consider letting Frederick take over so she can retire and concentrate on her well-being. The title King/Queen Emeritus should be now a standard on monarchs that decide to let the younger generation take charge. Her cousin Queen Sofia of Spain is Emeritus and still represents the family but has scaled her activities down as she ages.

The title of an abdicated King is not always a free choice. In my country the Royal House Act enforces that the King who has abdicated reverts to the titulature held before the kingship.

 

[ricarda]

And who says QMII is unable to undertake state visits and visiting all parts of her realm?

Not saying she is unable and should abdicate but her last outgoing state visit was to Germany in Nov 2021 and she definitely gave the impression that she needed her son's help.
And the last incoming state visit was in Aug 2018. Denmark never had as many state visits per year as e.g. Sweden, Spain or the UK and NL, there usually were only one or two. And of course there was Covid.
But the time-span is remarkable IMO.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I think it’s very sad if there becomes a pressure on her to abdicate just because she is old and has to take months off for surgery and physical rehabilitation….
I may be old fashionistorna in this but i am of the strong opinion that she should be allowed to make such a life-changing decision herself without any external pressure…

With a prolonged life expectancy for each passning generation, we need to get away from the age discrimination and instead accept that physical fragility and help-tools like crutches, a stick or a wheelchair is not something bad or derogatory but something positive and that can allow us to help get on with an active life for as long as we wants to.

As Pope Francis who is also regularly awashed with questions of a possible impending abdication for health reasons said ”You govern with your head - not with your knees”

With that said, i have ofcourse the fullest respect and confidence in Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary… I’m sure they and probably also Princess Benedikte will do a stellar job as the faces of the danish monarchy while QMII is out

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think it’s very sad if there becomes a pressure on her to abdicate just because she is old and has to take months off for surgery and physical rehabilitation….
I may be old fashionistorna in this but i am of the strong opinion that she should be allowed to make such a life-changing decision herself without any external pressure…

With a prolonged life expectancy for each passning generation, we need to get away from the age discrimination and instead accept that physical fragility and help-tools like crutches, a stick or a wheelchair is not something bad or derogatory but something positive and that can allow us to help get on with an active life for as long as we wants to.

As Pope Francis who is also regularly awashed with questions of a possible impending abdication for health reasons said ”You govern with your head - not with your knees”

With that said, i have ofcourse the fullest respect and confidence in Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary… I’m sure they and probably also Princess Benedikte will do a stellar job as the faces of the danish monarchy while QMII is out

I respectfully disagree somewhat: now you bring up the Pope, imagibe that the late Emeritus still was the reigning Pope in all thse years of declining health, in the end nearly blind.

The message can also be: being a King means nothing, after all an ailing gerontocrat can that job.

 

[Izzie]

Would the fact she is a heavy smoker have effects on her surgery?

Yes it does and the recovery and the risk factors involved. In fact, smoking is one of the things that can affect the condition i believe.

 

[Alisa]

I believe she should have abdicated a few years ago.
What good is an old and aching monarch who is unable to carry out ALL duties and has to modify things to carry out some duties?
The Crown Princely couple has shown that they are more than capable of handling things and are up for the job.
Moreover, in a matter of months Prince Christian will be 18 he can carry out a few engagements while he does his studies.
All three sisters are now widows. It is time they sit back and relax and spend some time together.

 

[Blog Real]

I always thought that Queen Margrethe II looked to Queen Elizabeth II as an example. On the other hand, it was never customary for Scandinavian monarchs to abdicate. And the Queen of Denmark always said she wasn't going to abdicate.
Queen Margrethe II, like King Harald V, despite health problems, do not seem to want to abdicate and should want to fulfill their duties as kings until the end of their lives. Just like Queen Elizabeth II did too.

 

[Prinsara]

Daisy has said, precisely, that she would be on the throne until she fell off it.

I wonder if she is now regretting the choice of words.

I am in the camp that does not want her to go anywhere, including off the throne, but she is going to have a lot of thinking to do during an extensive recovery. With any luck, she may feel reinvigorated (see King Harald with a working heart valve and being forced to the crutches he's needed for years).

 

[ronald biver]

All the old kings & queens of today should really retired and let the younger generations of crown princes in this case CP's Haakon (Norway) & Frederik (Denmark) to become kings of their countries, like the ones from The Netherlands, Belgium & Spain, that is my opinion.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

(..)

I wish Queen Margarethe many, many happy years. Be it as reigning Queen, or in another role.

 

[Mbruno]

I think it’s very sad if there becomes a pressure on her to abdicate just because she is old and has to take months off for surgery and physical rehabilitation….
I may be old fashionistorna in this but i am of the strong opinion that she should be allowed to make such a life-changing decision herself without any external pressure…

With a prolonged life expectancy for each passing generation, we need to get away from the age discrimination and instead accept that physical fragility and help-tools like crutches, a stick or a wheelchair is not something bad or derogatory but something positive and that can allow us to help get on with an active life for as long as we wants to.

It is not a question of thinking that wheelchairs or crutches are derogatory. Many countries have compulsory retirement ages for example for judges, university professors, teachers, or civil servants, just to name a few public workers. If society does not think it is appropriate for a person to be teaching or presiding over a court when he or she is over 75, shouldn't a similar standard be applied to the Head of State?

Personally I am not in favor of a rigid abdication age as there are examples of people in their 80s who are capable of performing the role of Head of State such as President Biden or Queen Elizabeth II when she was that age. However, when aging starts to compromise one's ability to do the job fully, then I think the Head of State, especially monarchs, who, by definition, have an unlimited term of office, should be sensible enough to step down for the good of the country.

Just to be clear, I don't think Queen Margrethe II has reached that point yet.

 

[Silverpot]

Being a Constitutional Monarch means being your countrie's top diplomat, and to be that it's preferable that you've grown wise and thoughtful. And can give good advice to the youngsters in the Government. ?
Margarethe has been there, done that, she knows the world, just like her collegues in the Scandinavian countries. There is nothing wrong with their brain capacity.
Juan Carlos and Albert abdicated because of the scandals they created, not because they got old. Only Beatrix retired, but then that's a tradition in the NL.

 

[Somebody]

Being a Constitutional Monarch means being your countrie's top diplomat, and to be that it's preferable that you've grown wise and thoughtful. And can give good advice to the youngsters in the Government. ?
Margarethe has been there, done that, she knows the world, just like her collegues in the Scandinavian countries. There is nothing wrong with their brain capacity.
Juan Carlos and Albert abdicated because of the scandals they created, not because they got old. Only Beatrix retired, but then that's a tradition in the NL.

Don't forget Jean: he also abdicated, just like his mother did before him - and Henri will surely abdicate as well (sooner rather than later if Maria Teresa is to be believed; it seems she cannot wait for that time to come).

Each tradition has to 'start' at some point. In the Netherlands, it was queen Wilhelmina... and given that she had reigned from a very young age, she didn't need to worry about a short reign either. So, especially those that ascended the throne at a young age (in Scandinavia that would be both Margrethe and Carl Gustav) are probably at a better position to abdicate as they still have had more than enough time to leave their mark. It would be much harder for someone who ascended the throne when much older as that would mean a short reign (just a 'footnote' in the history of their country - although being the first to abdicate might ensure their place in the history books ) - to ensure that the next generation(s) will reign when in their prime years.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Frederik, Haakon and Victoria are in the prime of their life. For me it is a sort of waste if they have to wait a dozen of years or more. The days that being a King was a sort of divine right are long gone.

And abdications are by no means a modernity. In her own autobiography Lonely, but not alone Queen Wilhelmina wrote that she felt very much inspired by the solemn abdication in front of the assembled States-General of the Netherlands in Brussels (1555) of Charles V of Habsburg, Holy Roman Emperor, King of Spain, Archduke of Austria, Duke of Burgundy.

Charles V concluded his Abdication Address by mentioning his voyages: ten to the Netherlands, nine to German lands, seven to Spain, seven to Italy, four to France, two to England, and two to North Africa. His last public words were, "My life has been one long journey."

This to underline that abdications are no dishonours but can be a wise and rational decisions indeed.

 

[Prinsara]

It would be much harder for someone who ascended the throne when much older as that would mean a short reign (just a 'footnote' in the history of their country - although being the first to abdicate might ensure their place in the history books )

"Short reign" doesn't necessarily equate to footnote. Neither Henry V nor Edward VII made it to a decade, and British history certainly hasn't forgotten either of them. It's what you do with the time you have while you're there that counts.

As there isn't much in the way of agreement between the pro-abdication and pro-reign camps, I don't know why posters keep making the same arguments over and over again for both sides coming from different cultural traditions or rationalizations. No one is getting convinced. Each royal family does things differently and doesn't necessarily need to change.

 

[Silverpot]

Don't forget Jean: he also abdicated, just like his mother did before him - and Henri will surely abdicate as well (sooner rather than later if Maria Teresa is to be believed; it seems she cannot wait for that time to come).

Each tradition has to 'start' at some point. In the Netherlands, it was queen Wilhelmina... and given that she had reigned from a very young age, she didn't need to worry about a short reign either. So, especially those that ascended the throne at a young age (in Scandinavia that would be both Margrethe and Carl Gustav) are probably at a better position to abdicate as they still have had more than enough time to leave their mark. It would be much harder for someone who ascended the throne when much older as that would mean a short reign (just a 'footnote' in the history of their country - although being the first to abdicate might ensure their place in the history books ) - to ensure that the next generation(s) will reign when in their prime years.

I wouldn't necessarily think that people in their 40/50s are in their prime. Physically yes, but they still have a long way to go towards experience and wisdom. I think we have seen some examples of younger monarchs making not so wise decisions in their private lives an older one wouldn't make.
I can only speak for my country of course, but I don't want to see Victoria on the throne just yet.

 

[Somebody]

Responded in the 'abdications-thread' - as the discussion seems to have moved to a more general discussion.

 

[Toledo]

(..) In QMII's case, her health and post-surgery outcome might have her reconsider her options and, hopefully, allow Frederick and Mary to continue her legacy as official King and Queen.
That freedom will also allow QMII to have more time to do things she loves like her graphic and design work, too.

 

[Toledo]

I wouldn't necessarily think that people in their 40/50s are in their prime. Physically yes, but they still have a long way to go towards experience and wisdom. I think we have seen some examples of younger monarchs making not so wise decisions in their private lives an older one wouldn't make.
I can only speak for my country of course, but I don't want to see Victoria on the throne just yet.

I would like to see Victoria and her cousin Haakon on the thrones years ago. Both crown princes and their respective spouses are more than prepared to assume those duties. There is nothing wrong with a Royal Retirement and hopefully, QMII gets to place the Crown on her son Frederick in grand style, too.

 

[iceflower]

Posts and comments that were drifting too far off topic, without discussing the Danish Royal Family any longer, have been removed. This is not a thread about other monarchies, please discuss the future of the Danish monarchy only, drawing comparisons can be helpful, but should not get too excessive.

For those interested: a more general thread about abdications can be found here.