The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal House of Denmark

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #561  
Old 06-12-2016, 02:00 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
There is actually an alternative to both the status quo and a hypothetical abdication, namely a scenario where Margrethe II stays formally as queen, but Frederik takes over permanently as regent. What does Danish law say about that ?
The Law of Succession says the Crown Prince/ss become Regent if the monarch is physically or mentally unable to carry out her duties.
There is no mentioning of semi-retirement

QMII is the Monarch until she dies or abdicate.

In a way you can say this is what is happening now. M&F taking over in anything but the things the Monarch is obliged by law to undertake.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #562  
Old 06-12-2016, 06:10 PM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom, Norway
Posts: 1,875
As I've written here before and as Queen Margrethe have said at least 10 times, she will never abdicate. When her good friend King Harald celebrated 25 years on the throne in January, she was asked by a Norwegian journalist about a possible abdication in Norway? She didn't like the question and said that abdication is not a tradition in Norway and Denmark - the male journalist didn't dare to respond. She said the same to a another Norwegian female journalist - who didn't dared to respond either. It was realy funny to see her handle both these intrusive Norwegian journalists.
__________________

__________________
The Queen is the most wonderful, forgiving, non judgmental person I know. Sarah Ferguson speaking in 2011.
Reply With Quote
  #563  
Old 07-30-2016, 04:46 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,772
Summary of a very interesting Q&A in Billed Bladet #30, 2016.

Where a Henrik Blunck asks what would happen should Frederik renounce the right to the throne. And not only that; until Christian turns eighteen his parents legally speaking makes the decisions for him. - In other words Frederik can put his foot down and refuse to accept any of his children's claim to the throne.
So would Joachim become the next king then?

That's now how the piano plays, explains Jon Bloch Skipper.
Regardless Christian is the next in line, so he will be the next king, unless he too renounce the throne or die.

The Law of Succession §25, states that should the monarch become indisposed for various reasons, temporary of permanently and the heir is not yet of legal age, a Rigsforstander will be appointed, until in this case Christian turns eighteen.
That will either be Joachim or Mary. - If Mary became Rigsforstander than there will be no possible conflict since Mary would legally be making decisions on behalf of her son.
Should Joachim become Rigsforstander, Mary will still be okaying at least some decisions made on behalf of her son.

- Okay, let's have a macabre what if: QMII dies tomorrow and Frederik become king.
Next year Frederik dies from after a period of illness. While he was indisposed Frederik appointed Mary as Rigsforstander (as is his right) and before he dies he request Statsrådet (i.e. the government) to accpet Mary as Rigsforstander until Christian turns eighteen, with Joachim as councilor, advisor and back-up.
It will be unusual, but unless the Parliament has any particular objections they will usually follow a request from the Monarch.

That means Mary would be the Danish head-of-state for some eight-ten years.
The last time something like that happened was in the late 1500's, when Christian IV was a boy. (*)

(*) While Christian IV may have been a King, he was nevertheless still a boy and that meant he was brought up in accordance with the discipline used back then... There was no such thing as a "whipping-boy" in Denmark, so King Christian IV was spanked on quite a number of occasions!
Reply With Quote
  #564  
Old 07-30-2016, 06:59 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,194
Surely though, should Frederik die in that very unfortunate way next year, his son Christian, (though a minor) would immediately become monarch (and therefore nominally Head of State.) A bit of 'The King is dead, God Save the King', so to speak.
Also, how much power does a constitutional monarch have in Denmark? Even if Mary is appointed as Rigsforstander she surely wouldn't be making decisions that affect the realm. I thought, am I wrong, that Danish monarchs nowadays are ceremonial heads only?
I really think that Frederik would hopefully pick Joachim for this position. I believe Joachim has acted as Regent in the past when the Queen and his brother have been out of the country.
Reply With Quote
  #565  
Old 07-30-2016, 07:32 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,772
While Joachim is most likely to be appointed Rigsforstander in such a case it's not a certainty.
Only the Crown Prince(ss) is automatically Regent in the absence of the Monarch. Everybody else are appointed Rigsforstander by the Monarch, or Statsrådet - after consultations with the Parliament.

Christian can only be king when he turns eighteen and have signed a pledge to obey the Constitution, which he can't do until he is of legal age, i.e. eighteen.
So the de facto head of state until Christian turns eighteen is the Rigsforstander. That happened during the childhood of King Christian IV and before that under Queen Margrethe I, in the 1300's.

The Danish monarch does hold some constitutional power.
In this case it would be the Rigsforstander who signs laws making them valid.
It's also the Rigsforstander (in this thought experiment Mary) who formally accept the resignations and appointments of governments.
It's also to the Rigsforstander foreign ambassadors present their credentials. Until then they cannot act as fully acknowledged ambassadors.
It's in the name of Rigsforstander Mary, on behalf of her son Christian, that all state and municipal authority in Denmark stems, via the ministries.
Rigsforstander Mary will also formally be the commander in chief of the military. - Again on behalf of her son, but she is the executive.
It's also the Rigsforstander who will head the State Councils and it's the Rigsforstander who will be briefed weekly by the PM, so that she can act in the best interests of Denmark and her son and the DRF - in that order.
Christian will have no official saying in any of these matters.

If she takes her son on state or official visits, Rigsforstander Mary is the first to be greeted, and she is the one who will give the official speech on behalf of Denmark.

It's also Rigsforstander Mary who will decide what to do, if Joachim in a fit of rage plants an axe in the head of his mechanic who did a poor job on the brakes of Joachim's car. - A perfectly understandable reaction...

And so on and so on.
Reply With Quote
  #566  
Old 07-30-2016, 08:27 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,194
I see. Thanks for that. Interesting to see that there is a quite a bit of power, and prestige, involved in the role of Rigsforstander. Let's hope that Queen Margrethe lives until she's ninety and Frederik until he's eighty. That should ensure a smooth accession! How would Christian be addressed during the interim period that his mother would be Rigsforstander, then? Would he remain Crown Prince?
Reply With Quote
  #567  
Old 07-30-2016, 11:27 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,772
Presumably.

It must also be pretty daunting for an eighteen year old suddenly to be monarch!
Especially since royals nowadays are no longer groomed to rule, but to reign, which can be pretty complicated PR and people-skill wise.

So I hope Frederik will introduce abdication in the DRF and abdicate when Christian is about 45 or so.
Reply With Quote
  #568  
Old 07-30-2016, 11:38 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 4,389
That is interesting. So the Rigsforstander can be someone not in the lineal line of succession to the throne.

I know Mary is popular but how would such a move be received by the Danish people?

Joachim is a prince of the 'blood royal' as we say in the commonwealth, and I would have assumed it would automatically go to him.
Reply With Quote
  #569  
Old 07-30-2016, 11:41 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
It's also the Rigsforstander who will head the State Councils and it's the Rigsforstander who will be briefed weekly by the PM, so that she can act in the best interests of Denmark and her son and the DRF - in that order..
I had never heard of these weekly meetings with the PM and ministers that Frederik also regularly attends, until they were mentioned in an article about the tv-series 'The Queen's castles' a few months ago.

It would be great to know more about the more "invisible" royal duties of the Regent and Crown Prince (couple).
Reply With Quote
  #570  
Old 07-30-2016, 12:17 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
That is interesting. So the Rigsforstander can be someone not in the lineal line of succession to the throne.

I know Mary is popular but how would such a move be received by the Danish people?

Joachim is a prince of the 'blood royal' as we say in the commonwealth, and I would have assumed it would automatically go to him.
Absolutely. There are a couple (official) requirements for becoming Rigsforstander:
You have to be a Danish citizen and you have to sign a pledge to obey the Constitution. I'm not sure you are required to be a Lutheran nowadays, but for a longer period that must be considered a must as well, since the Danish monarch is head of the state church.
Then of course you have to be of sound mind and "worthy". That is not a criminal or in general considered a shady character.
Anyone who fits these conditions can be appointed Rigsforstander, even above others in the Line of Succession.
It's only the Crown Prince(ss) who cannot be sidelined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
I had never heard of these weekly meetings with the PM and ministers that Frederik also regularly attends, until they were mentioned in an article about the tv-series 'The Queen's castles' a few months ago.

It would be great to know more about the more "invisible" royal duties of the Regent and Crown Prince (couple).
There are no doubt many!

That applies to all the major working royals, especially when going abroad.
They have to well briefed in the culture, history, domestic as well as foreign politics of the nation they are visiting. - Simply to avoid gaffes.
And they have to be very well-informed about the government but also the opposition's stand on various issues when visiting a foreign country or being visited by foreign guests.
In a tribe the size of the population of Hamburg it's crucial the members of the DRF don't say or do anything that goes against the official line, because it will be noted on the spot!

If we go even further in this macabre thought experiment and imagine that QMII dies tomorrow. Then M&F will become the regent couple.
But in say five years tragedy strikes. Frederik takes Christian and Isabella out sailing on a winters day and the boat goes down. They end up in icy water and the children die, before help can get there. In icy waters you can drown within seconds even if you are a good swimmer.
Frederik dies a few weeks later from complications and grief.
In the meantime he has requested Mary to be Rigsforstander until Vincent is old enough to take over.

By then Mary will have been a queen and majesty for five years and gained even more experience, so IMO it will be difficult for Statsrådet and the Parliament not to follow that request.

Apart from the human aspect of Mary losing her husband and two children, I don't think that would that would cause that big a stir, and certainly few protests, assuming M&F have done a competent job as the regent couple.
I think the most heard argument would be that Mary should rather concentrate on her two remaining children, from a purely human aspect. And let Joachim handle all the other things.
- But to that could be argued that had it been Mary and their two oldest children who died, no one would expect Frederik to step down.

As you know Joachim does not have the highest popular ratings, nor (unfairly I think) the highest confidence ratings.

There would be other discussions about not subjecting the two remaining children to any danger, and certainly never together, but that's an entirely different matter.
So yes, Mary can become Rigsforstander for some eight years or so, and in anything but name, she will legally speaking be the monarch.
That is clearly stated in the Law of Succession §7 of 1871.

§ 7 Rigsforstanderen træder, saalænge han fører Regjeringen, i statsretlig Henseende i Kongens Sted. Han udøver den kongelige Myndighed og nyder den samme Ansvarsfrihed som Kongen; Ministrene ere ansvarlige for Regjeringens Førelse.

(Archaic Danish, Google will be of little use, so this is just for reference).
Reply With Quote
  #571  
Old 07-30-2016, 02:18 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Christmas Island
Posts: 5,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
That is interesting. So the Rigsforstander can be someone not in the lineal line of succession to the throne.

I know Mary is popular but how would such a move be received by the Danish people?

Joachim is a prince of the 'blood royal' as we say in the commonwealth, and I would have assumed it would automatically go to him.
In the Netherlands foreign-born Dowager-Princesses were appointed Regentess for the underaged royal:

Amalia Reichsgräfin von Solms-Braunfels for her underaged son Willem II, The Prince of Orange, Stadtholder of the United Provinces.

Mary I Stuart, The Princess Royal, for her underaged son Willem III, The Prince of Orange, Stadtholder of the United Provinces, later King of England, Scotland and Ireland.

Marie-Luise Prinzessin von Hessen-Kassel for her underaged son Willem IV and once again for her underaged grandson Willem V, both The Prince of Orange and Stadtholder of the United Provinces.

Anne of Great-Britain and Hannover, The Princess Royal, for her underaged son Willem V, The Prince of Orange, Stadtholder of the United Provinces.

Emma Prinzessin von Waldeck und Pyrmont, for her sick spouse Willem III, King of the Netherlands, Grand-Duke of Luxembourg.

Emma, Prinzessin von Waldeck und Pyrmont for her underaged daughter Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands.

All these regencies by foreign-born royal ladies were seen as succesfull. So why would a regency by foreign-born Mary be less succesfull? Ultimately all these foreign born spouses have the same interest: to do all that the throne and the royal prerogatives are passed to their very own flesh and blood - intact and unaffected. I would even say: a regency is in better hands with the Dowager than with a brother because that last one can pursue an own agenda.

Was not Dowager Queen Ingrid a Regentess for the underaged Margrethe but her uncle Prince Knud, the Arveprins... best recipe for intrigues! The foreign-born Swedish Princess Ingrid will have her daughter as her sole interest. Danish-born Prince Knud as Regent might have had an own agenda...
Reply With Quote
  #572  
Old 07-30-2016, 02:37 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 4,389
But in Britain the regent must be in the line of succession and capable of succeeding to the throne.

That's why I found it interesting Mary can serve as regent in Denmark
Reply With Quote
  #573  
Old 07-30-2016, 03:01 PM
Dee Anna's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Here, Ireland
Posts: 240
That is also interesting.

So, if in some UK dire circumstance (such as a car accident wiping out both Charles and William) Andrew would become the King regent following the later death of the Queen?

What if any role would Kate play other than mum of the underaged King?
Reply With Quote
  #574  
Old 07-30-2016, 03:12 PM
Blog Real's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 1,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
While Joachim is most likely to be appointed Rigsforstander in such a case it's not a certainty.
Only the Crown Prince(ss) is automatically Regent in the absence of the Monarch. Everybody else are appointed Rigsforstander by the Monarch, or Statsrådet - after consultations with the Parliament.

Christian can only be king when he turns eighteen and have signed a pledge to obey the Constitution, which he can't do until he is of legal age, i.e. eighteen.
So the de facto head of state until Christian turns eighteen is the Rigsforstander. That happened during the childhood of King Christian IV and before that under Queen Margrethe I, in the 1300's.

The Danish monarch does hold some constitutional power.
In this case it would be the Rigsforstander who signs laws making them valid.
It's also the Rigsforstander (in this thought experiment Mary) who formally accept the resignations and appointments of governments.
It's also to the Rigsforstander foreign ambassadors present their credentials. Until then they cannot act as fully acknowledged ambassadors.
It's in the name of Rigsforstander Mary, on behalf of her son Christian, that all state and municipal authority in Denmark stems, via the ministries.
Rigsforstander Mary will also formally be the commander in chief of the military. - Again on behalf of her son, but she is the executive.
It's also the Rigsforstander who will head the State Councils and it's the Rigsforstander who will be briefed weekly by the PM, so that she can act in the best interests of Denmark and her son and the DRF - in that order.
Christian will have no official saying in any of these matters.

If she takes her son on state or official visits, Rigsforstander Mary is the first to be greeted, and she is the one who will give the official speech on behalf of Denmark.

It's also Rigsforstander Mary who will decide what to do, if Joachim in a fit of rage plants an axe in the head of his mechanic who did a poor job on the brakes of Joachim's car. - A perfectly understandable reaction...

And so on and so on.
But talked about it why?
__________________
Acclamation Manuel II of Portugal: 6 May 1908
Reply With Quote
  #575  
Old 07-30-2016, 03:17 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Anna View Post
So, if in some UK dire circumstance (such as a car accident wiping out both Charles and William) Andrew would become the King regent following the later death of the Queen?

What if any role would Kate play other than mum of the underaged King?
That is, perhaps, a question for one of the British threads?
Reply With Quote
  #576  
Old 07-30-2016, 03:30 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Anna View Post
That is also interesting.

So, if in some UK dire circumstance (such as a car accident wiping out both Charles and William) Andrew would become the King regent following the later death of the Queen?

What if any role would Kate play other than mum of the underaged King?

If something caused George to become king while under age, Harry would be Prince Regent. He wouldn't have the title "King Regent" as it doesn't exist in Britain. Andrew would become Prince Regent if something happened to Harry.
Reply With Quote
  #577  
Old 07-30-2016, 03:39 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
But in Britain the regent must be in the line of succession and capable of succeeding to the throne.

That's why I found it interesting Mary can serve as regent in Denmark
In Spain, on the other hand, the constitution says that the surviving parent of a minor who ascends the throne automatically becomes the regent. In Leonor's case, that would be Queen Letizia assuming she also survived King Felipe VI.

In Belgium , however, as I understand it, there is no automatic rule determining a priori who should serve as regent; instead, if the throne is vacant while the heir is still a minor, the two houses of the federal parliament are convened in a joint session to appoint a regent and a guardian. Likewise, in Sweden, it is the Riksdag who elects a regent if a minor accedes to the throne; in cases, however, when the King is absent or temporarily incapacitated, the first person in the line of succession who is over 18 and is neither absent nor incapacitated automatically takes over as interim regent.
Reply With Quote
  #578  
Old 07-30-2016, 03:47 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Anna View Post
That is also interesting.

So, if in some UK dire circumstance (such as a car accident wiping out both Charles and William) Andrew would become the King regent following the later death of the Queen?
No, if both Charles and William were deceased and George were still a child, Harry would be the regent (and would not be titled "king"). If Harry had not survived either, Andrew would become regent assuming he was still alive.

Quote:
What if any role would Kate play other than mum of the underaged King?
I assume she would have no official role as she is not in the line of succession and, therefore, is barred in the UK from automatically becoming the regent.
Reply With Quote
  #579  
Old 07-30-2016, 04:25 PM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 3,332
Kate can be the regent for George if the parliament passes a law. The default regent is the next person in the line of succession but that can be changed with a new law like they did in 1952 which made Philip regent not Margaret in case something happened to the Queen and a underage Charles became King.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
Reply With Quote
  #580  
Old 07-30-2016, 05:18 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san diego, United States
Posts: 5,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
I had never heard of these weekly meetings with the PM and ministers that Frederik also regularly attends, until they were mentioned in an article about the tv-series 'The Queen's castles' a few months ago.

It would be great to know more about the more "invisible" royal duties of the Regent and Crown Prince (couple).

I agree! Frederik regulars attends these meetings with the Queen, for years now, but we hardly hear about them.

Interesting topic Muhler regarding the Danish regency issues.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crown prince frederik


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crown Princess Mary as Patron of The Danish Refugee Council (DRC) Alisa Crown Prince Frederik, Crown Princess Mary and Family 241 11-02-2016 11:23 AM
Danish TV series "The Monarchy Inside" by DR Paty The Electronic Domain 184 06-19-2015 04:36 PM




Popular Tags
andrew scott cooper ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coronation coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events dictatorship duchess of cambridge e-mail fashion poll grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy murder new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess madeleine princess marie princess marie events princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats princess mette-marit fashion and style queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:10 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises