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  #541  
Old 04-28-2016, 05:22 PM
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Do you think the Queen Margrethe will eventually give up in a few years? Does everything what the Prince Henrik has done can take the Queen to abdicate?
She has the Queen (Elizabeth II) as her role model and has repeatedly said that she believes her role is for life. She even said so in a interview with Norwegian television in January to mark King Harald's 25 years on the throne. So I am therefore 100% sure that she will never abdicate, back problems or not.

If Margrethe becomes unable to perform her duties, she'll still be monarch, but Frederik will act as regent as he has done several times before.

The same will happen in Norway. Haakon have as Frederik acted as regent several times including when Harald had the operations. The same happened when Harald was regent during the period from when King Olav suffered a stroke in May 1990 to when he died in January 1991.

Something similar will also happen in the UK. If the Queen gets dementia (which is very unlikely since she's already 90) or a stroke, a regency will be created. She will still be monarch and Charles will serve as regent.
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  #542  
Old 04-28-2016, 05:22 PM
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Do you think the Queen Margrethe will eventually give up in a few years? Does everything what the Prince Henrik has done can take the Queen to abdicate?
I've been thinking about that as well.

It's difficult to say. There is IMO still a transition period going on, where people really don't know what PH's retirement is all about.
But if it become visibly strenuous for QMII to perform her public duties alone, like the summer cruises and state visits while at the same time PH is merrily going about his own business without any signs of mental deterioration, then the public annoyance may reach a point where people in earnest say: Let M&F take over.
I mean if PH opts out of everything he possibly can, including what you may call "family-gatherings" i.e. when a royal colleague celebrates something which the royals usually see as an opportunity to meet and catch up and if he is seen as openly unwilling to take part in the show, (there was unfortunately footage from QMII's birthday where she grabbed PH by the arm and wanted him to stand by her side on the balcony, which he rejected) that will of course cause negative publicity and annoyance in the eyes of the public.
Old age is forgivable. Illness is forgivable. Reduced mobility is forgivable. But sullen behavior is not.

So there may come a point when the public become so annoyed of PH again-again opt out of everything possible and act sullenly when he does appear that it starts to erode away the respect and sympathy there is for QMII and as such the DRF in general, then there may come a point where QMII feels she can better serve her country by abdicating. I.e. "go on retirement" too. There is after all a precedence now.

I think that scenario is unlikely but not far out.

ADDED: I think it's unlikely mainly because PH and QMII are now so old that they are likely to die or become more or less immobile before the public annoyance reach a point where there is a genuine call or rather desire for QMII to abdicate.
Had PH retired when he was around 65 then this option of abdicating would have been much more likely.
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  #543  
Old 04-29-2016, 02:38 AM
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I don't think Margrethe's back problem would make her unable to perform her duties as Queen. Should it become necessary, I am sure she would be quite able to reign from a wheelchair if necessary and she has two healthy sons and daughters-in-law to do the donkey work.

As to the "Heinrik problem", I can't help but feel that should he continue to diss his lovely wife she is more likely to divorce him than abdicate the throne of Denmark!
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  #544  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:45 PM
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LL QMII! So when Frederik ascends the throne, Joachim and Marie will be needed (probably Nikolai as well) until Christian comes of age, right?
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  #545  
Old 05-20-2016, 12:17 AM
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Regarding Henrik's alleged bad treatment of his wife, I would think that the Danish public would sympathize with the Queen and become even more proud of her for carrying on with dignity. I don't think Henrik's bad behavior would rub off on Margrethe and it would be unfair if it did.

Regarding abdication, I keep saying it, never say never. Times they are a changin. I don't think Margrethe would abdicate any time soon, however.
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  #546  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:37 AM
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Agree. QMII's status in the public eye is not damaged by PH, she gets the sympathy, he gets the heat.

The only serious "threat" to QMII is M&F doing their job well. As time goes there will be an increasingly vocal call for QMII to abdicate and allow M&F to shine, "since they are they are the regent couple in anything but name anyway".

As for J&M there will sure be a need for them once QMII is gone, one way or another. Nikolai is unlikely to be needed unless QMII dies tomorrow. After all we are only eight years away from Christian being able to function as Rigsforstander/Regent.
But J&M wil be needed because neither Christian nor Bella can be expected to have completed their education before the age of 30 and they probably won't have a family before that either. So we are talking a time-span of some twenty years before they can relieve M&F in earnest.
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  #547  
Old 05-20-2016, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Regarding abdication, I keep saying it, never say never. Times they are a changin.I don't believe Margrethe would abdicate any time soon, however.
Times may change but Queen Margrethe and Queen Elizabeth for that matter, were both brought up to serve their country and that will never change. They both made promises to their people and believe that with God's help they will serve until the end.

These women are of a generation that took both their promises and their faith seriously which IMO makes it unlikely either would even consider abdication. Time may make them unable to perform to their best, but that's what heirs are for and, in extreme cases, Regents.

I believe you are right Muhler, that pressure may come for her to abdicate in favour of Frederik but I do not believe that Frederik would be willing to be pronounced King under those conditions.
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  #548  
Old 05-20-2016, 03:46 AM
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I agree.

Frederik would not be jumping with eagerness to take over if QMII is being pressured to abdicate. On the contrary he would probably go out and support her as much as he could.
But he wouldn't refuse either if QMII was "abdicated", but I can't see that happen.

Another matter is if Frederik himself would abdicate in favor of Christian when the time is right. I.e do a NLRF.

After all just like his mother, the day Frederik becomes king will not be a happy day for him.
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  #549  
Old 05-20-2016, 11:34 AM
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Sorry if you understood about QM abdicating. Wasn't my intention. Thanks for your replies, though!
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  #550  
Old 06-11-2016, 07:12 PM
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Eksperter: Derfor bør Frederik og Mary overtage tronen – Ekstra Bladet

We have brought this issue up several times here on TRF. But it's simply because it's a topic that is much up in the Danish media these months. Whether if it eventually will be best to let CP Frederik and CP Mary take over?

Queen Margrethe still do it fantastic, but so does CP Frederik and CP Mary. And although it's an old tradition that the monarch does not leave the throne before she/he dies we are in an rather exceptional situation at the moment IMO.

I love my royal family, but we can't get around that there's quite a turmoil with certain members of the DRF. Prince Henrik (or rather the media) creates constant turmoil and instability. Although Margrethe is doing it fantastic it's not gives good vibes or image when they cancel their golden wedding, when the Queen walks alone everywhere, and Prince Henrik happily traveling around the world himself etc. Additionally, there are all the turmoil with Alexandra's and Martin's divorce, a major debate about the apanage for Alexandra, Prince Henrik and Prince Joachim. Will the Danes continue to pay to members who do not contribute?

If it continues like this, I think it can end up with it maybe will be necessary - tradition or not - to let Frederik and Mary take over - they will provide peace and stability in the DRF which is needed. And they are ready, hardworking and very popular. A strong team.

According to the poll in article (notice from EB) over 81% of Danish readers wish CP Frederik and CP Mary to take over now! 81 %....

I hope this situation calm down soon (I have said this since January, I know...) Because Queen Margrethe is still doing it fantastic and I think it will break her heart to have to break with the old tradition AND because I wish for Frederik and Mary to get some years more as a young family with young children before they become King and Queen.
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  #551  
Old 06-11-2016, 09:55 PM
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I agree.

Frederik would not be jumping with eagerness to take over if QMII is being pressured to abdicate. On the contrary he would probably go out and support her as much as he could.
But he wouldn't refuse either if QMII was "abdicated", but I can't see that happen.

Another matter is if Frederik himself would abdicate in favor of Christian when the time is right. I.e do a NLRF.

After all just like his mother, the day Frederik becomes king will not be a happy day for him.

What about Mary ? Although she will never let it show in public, I have a feeling she would like the idea of becoming queen consort sooner rather than later.
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  #552  
Old 06-11-2016, 11:22 PM
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I don't think Mary or Frederik are eager for the Queen to be forced to abdicate or for her to die. As crown prince couple they already have very prominent roles. Both already have full agendas and Mary has done great work with her foundation. They have basically taken over during state visits.
I see Mary quite happy in her role.
Of course Frederik and her have already shown their full support for the Queen.

And yes it's disappointing that other members are bringing negative attention to the work of the Queen and Crown Prince Couple
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  #553  
Old 06-12-2016, 12:23 AM
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I don't think Mary or Frederik are eager for the Queen to be forced to abdicate or for her to die. As crown prince couple they already have very prominent roles. Both already have full agendas and Mary has done great work with her foundation. They have basically taken over during state visits.
I see Mary quite happy in her role.
Of course Frederik and her have already shown their full support for the Queen.

And yes it's disappointing that other members are bringing negative attention to the work of the Queen and Crown Prince Couple
As long as their children are young, I can't see them eager to step up to Margrethe's role. Ideally, the twins will be at least 15-16 when the time comes. However, I do agree with the general perception that Fred dreads it more than Mary.
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  #554  
Old 06-12-2016, 01:00 AM
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. . . . If it continues like this, I think it can end up with it maybe will be necessary - tradition or not - to let Frederik and Mary take over - they will provide peace and stability in the DRF which is needed. And they are ready, hardworking and very popular. A strong team.

According to the poll in article (notice from EB) over 81% of Danish readers wish CP Frederik and CP Mary to take over now! 81 %....

I hope this situation calm down soon (I have said this since January, I know...) Because Queen Margrethe is still doing it fantastic and I think it will break her heart to have to break with the old tradition AND because I wish for Frederik and Mary to get some years more as a young family with young children before they become King and Queen.
It seems Denmark loves their Queen and should not allow the media to bamboozal them into pushing for Abdication "for her own good". I would suggest that what's good for Queen Margrethe is to be able to continue to reign for her whole life.

Those media types pushing for abdication are so full of supposedly 'altruistic' advice regarding HM that they seem to have overlooked "The Heir" and how he feels about it. Frederik has been raised to do his duty and nowhere in his life lessons did he learn there's an opt-out clause called abdication.

How would King Frederik feel sitting on a throne his mother was hounded off? Not too good I would think, facing her on a daily basis would be a living reproach and corrode the soul. One could only imagine the pressure in his family and his marriage. Taking the throne at the death of a loved parent would be heart-wrenching. Taking the throne any other way? Unthinkable!
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  #555  
Old 06-12-2016, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
As long as their children are young, I can't see them eager to step up to Margrethe's role. Ideally, the twins will be at least 15-16 when the time comes. However, I do agree with the general perception that Fred dreads it more than Mary.
There is little doubt in my mind he does dread the day - his mother dies.
If you'd asked me certainly ten years ago, I'd say he'd also dread becoming king. But he seems much more at ease and confident with his task now. - And with himself.
IMO no doubt because M&F have taken over so much. Also in the mind of the people and that too must give him confidence.

So I do believe he feels ready, while at the same time hoping that day will be years away.

I also believe it wouldn't be a bad idea should QMII voluntarily step aside, then the day Frederik will become king, will be a happy day, rather than a sad day.
However I don't like that the press almost urge her to step down. In fact I think that could make QMII and Frederik as well to become stubborn and go for the tradition, rather than introducing the concept of abdication to the DRF.

Anyway, it seems to me that Frederik has already taken over as much as he can. Without being able to say so with certainly, it seems to me that it's Frederik who now makes the decisions within the DRF, with his mother's co-operation and backing. Rather than the other way around.
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  #556  
Old 06-12-2016, 04:37 AM
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As long as their children are young, I can't see them eager to step up to Margrethe's role. Ideally, the twins will be at least 15-16 when the time comes. However, I do agree with the general perception that Fred dreads it more than Mary.
Euh... King Willem-Alexander, King Felipe, King Philippe, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Beatrix, Grand Duke Henri, King Carl XVI Gustaf, King Juan Carlos, etc. came on the throne with young or even no children at all... The age of children is no argument in this, I think.

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[...]

How would King Frederik feel sitting on a throne his mother was hounded off? [...]
Pretty comfortable, I think. His "colleagues" in Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein (de facto), the Netherlands and even at the Vatican seem to sit pretty comfortably on their thrones, all with their predecessors still around.

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Times may change but Queen Margrethe and Queen Elizabeth for that matter, were both brought up to serve their country and that will never change. [...]
King Edward VIII of the United Kingdom (*1894), Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands (*1880), Grand-Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg (*1896), Princess Charlotte of Monaco (*1898) are examples of a generation even older than Margrethe and Elizabeth and most likely brought up in the very same adagium ("to serve God and country"). We may add Queen Juliana of the Netherlands (*1909) or Grand-Duke Jean of Luxembourg (*1921). They all voluntarily abdicated their rights anyway.
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  #557  
Old 06-12-2016, 05:05 AM
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What about Mary ? Although she will never let it show in public, I have a feeling she would like the idea of becoming queen consort sooner rather than later.
I believe she feels ready and consider it a challenge, but actually like the idea? No.
Apart from her and QMII by all accounts having a good relationship it would also be a very sad day for her husband. - And as pointed out here by other posters there are advantages in still being the CP-couple. Mary as Crown Princess, may have more time and opportunity to pursue some of her pet-projects than queen Mary may have.
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  #558  
Old 06-12-2016, 06:21 AM
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While I agree that Fred dreads the step up more than Mary (I believe that she is fond of the concept that women get to bear the 'Queen' title), I believe both are pretty content with the positions they have now.
They still kind of fly under the radar in terms of what they do in their private life, freedom, spending money, scrutiny. They enjoy the perks but do not have the responsibiltiy.
It is similar like in other countries, most of all the UK: when the old and loved monarch dies one day, people will take a different look: is this all still seasonable or up to date? Yes, Fred and Mary are popular but I think they will be easier targets for critizism if they put a foot wrong and and people will be less forgiving. There will be more pressure to change things or to answer for things, less respect because there is no life achievement to take credit for.
So all in all I'd give a hoot about the title 'Queen' and make the most of my CP life while it lasts.
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  #559  
Old 06-12-2016, 09:52 AM
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There is little doubt in my mind he does dread the day - his mother dies.
If you'd asked me certainly ten years ago, I'd say he'd also dread becoming king. But he seems much more at ease and confident with his task now. - And with himself.
IMO no doubt because M&F have taken over so much. Also in the mind of the people and that too must give him confidence.

So I do believe he feels ready, while at the same time hoping that day will be years away.

I also believe it wouldn't be a bad idea should QMII voluntarily step aside, then the day Frederik will become king, will be a happy day, rather than a sad day.
However I don't like that the press almost urge her to step down. In fact I think that could make QMII and Frederik as well to become stubborn and go for the tradition, rather than introducing the concept of abdication to the DRF.

Anyway, it seems to me that Frederik has already taken over as much as he can. Without being able to say so with certainly, it seems to me that it's Frederik who now makes the decisions within the DRF, with his mother's co-operation and backing. Rather than the other way around.
There is actually an alternative to both the status quo and a hypothetical abdication, namely a scenario where Margrethe II stays formally as queen, but Frederik takes over permanently as regent. What does Danish law say about that ?
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  #560  
Old 06-12-2016, 09:58 AM
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Euh... King Willem-Alexander, King Felipe, King Philippe, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Beatrix, Grand Duke Henri, King Carl XVI Gustaf, King Juan Carlos, etc. came on the throne with young or even no children at all... The age of children is no argument in this, I think.
Agreed. Just to add to that, let's keep in mind that, in the past, for many centuries actually, when life expectancy was quite low and most monarchs were quite young by contemporary standards, they often ascended the throne with young children or no children at all yet. And, unlike today's kings who only wave to the crowd, sign a few documents and hold a few audiences, those kings of the past actually had to rule their countries, go to war, etc. etc., their young families notwithstanding.


Quote:
Pretty comfortable, I think. His "colleagues" in Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein (de facto), the Netherlands and even at the Vatican seem to sit pretty comfortably on their thrones, all with their predecessors still around.



King Edward VIII of the United Kingdom (*1894), Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands (*1880), Grand-Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg (*1896), Princess Charlotte of Monaco (*1898) are examples of a generation even older than Margrethe and Elizabeth and most likely brought up in the very same adagium ("to serve God and country"). We may add Queen Juliana of the Netherlands (*1909) or Grand-Duke Jean of Luxembourg (*1921). They all voluntarily abdicated their rights anyway.
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