The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[ROYAL NORWAY]

The Danish royal family increased its popularity
Denmark is unconditionally the country in Europe where for many years there has been the greatest support for the monarchy.
https://jyllands-posten.dk/premium/kultur/ECE11361563/Det-danske-kongehus-har-øget-sin-popularitet/

Oh god! The Lars Hovbakke Sørensen guy again!

Yes, the Danish historian who has made a career of:
1. Never sticking to facts.
2. Saying different things at different times.
3. Saying in this and other articles that ''Denmark is unconditionally the country in Europe where there has been the greatest amount of support for the monarchy over time,'' despite the fact that polls in Norway show that The Norwegian Monarchy has had higher support over time than the Danish one. Yes, most in their 70/80%s since 1945.
4. Saying in 2016 ''that most polls in Norway show around 60% support for the monarchy,'' despite the fact that almost every one of them shows the number to be over 70%, some over 80%. - With the exception of one which always shows 65%.
5. Then changing his mind in 2017, saying to Norwegian media ''that most polls in Norway show over 70%, making it the most popular monarchy in the world.''
6. Before changing his mind yet again, saying ''that The British monarchy is the one with the highest support,'' despite the fact that polls in Norway/Denmark showed equally high support (if not higher) than in the UK.

And now to this article-series of his, which is about European monarchies (although leaving out the smaller ones, i.e. Luxembourg, Monaco, Liechtenstein) - and which BTW is full of factual errors! Yes, surprise, surprise!
Well, in the article about the Danish RF, he writes ''that when QMII acceded to the throne in 1972, there were only about 50% of the people who supported the monarchy. But by 1990, it had increased to just under 80% - and has been at the same high level ever since.''
Hmm, he has said the same thing before, but then he has used the number 70% (sometimes even 90%) instead.
Another thing he seems to not be aware of is that the YouGov poll (as the only one) often has the support for The Danish monarchy below 60%, such as Norwegian TV2 always has the number at around 65% in Norway (way lower than the other polls).

So perhaps we shall be a bit generous (this is also mean to the commentators in Norway, who always say that the Norwegian Monarchy is the one with the highest support) and just say that both monarchies are equally popular! LOL.

 

[polyesco]

New poll shows more support for the Queen abdicating and Frederik taking over.
https://www.bt.dk/royale/opbakninge...he-skrumper-ind-der-er-tale-om-en-chokmaaling

"Sebastian Olden-Jørgensen does not dare to predict whether or not Queen Margrethe will abdicate.
But the fact is that in recent years the Crown Prince couple has been pushed more into the foreground and have been given several important duties.
"It is natural, because you cannot push the Crown Prince couple further and further, without giving the feeling that it might be time for them to take over," he says."
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kongehusek...j83P1cXJAX_fF53X7tldFrpK0LbV4C-wQdtqORN2sU-Ck

 

[Muhler]

I actually agree that it would be a good idea for QMII to abdicate while she is on top.
And also while M&F are in their prime.
No one are interested in another Prince Charles.

There are a number of arguments and points in the article:
A) That monarchs tend to become more and more popular the longer they reign, and that Frederik should have time to build up that popularity and respect while on the throne.
- That is not entirely correct IMO. Look at Belgium, Spain and Sweden.
Also Frederik (and Mary) are already popular and respected - and I dare say by many, especially among the younger, seen as their "regent couple."

B) That people will ask, with good reason, as M&F appear more and more to be the de facto regent couple - why not go all the way?
- That is a good point IMO. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, why not call it a duck rather than a water-fowl?

C) That it would give Frederik a good start of his reign, to let him take over now when he is on top. He is ready.
- Agree.

D) Should QMII really decide to abdicate, it won't be in the immediate future.
There is her 80th birthday coming up in April and there is the 100th anniversary of the reunification of Southern Jutland with Denmark that will be celebrated next summer. Both events means a lot to QMII.
- So an abdication, should it happen, will take place at the earliest next autumn. That IMO would be a strange time to take over. I would imagine that an abdication would take place in January, so that QMII will be able to bow out with the New Year Courts. And say her goodbye in her New Year speech. And Frederik will start at the beginning of a year.

As for the poll itself: A 41 versus 40 is not decisive IMO. But I'm certain that this is the turning point and that the number supporting and abdication will rise year for year. Both because QMII herself is getting older. But also because M&F will become ever more visible and also because the generations who consider QMII their monarch, will diminish. While those who have grown up with M&F more or less as front figures, (i.e. since 2010 or so) will increase.

 

[Mbruno]

New poll shows more support for the Queen abdicating and Frederik taking over.
https://www.bt.dk/royale/opbakninge...he-skrumper-ind-der-er-tale-om-en-chokmaaling

"Sebastian Olden-Jørgensen does not dare to predict whether or not Queen Margrethe will abdicate.
But the fact is that in recent years the Crown Prince couple has been pushed more into the foreground and have been given several important duties.
"It is natural, because you cannot push the Crown Prince couple further and further, without giving the feeling that it might be time for them to take over," he says."
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kongehusek...j83P1cXJAX_fF53X7tldFrpK0LbV4C-wQdtqORN2sU-Ck

Well, the Queen is getting older, she is a widow now and has trouble walking and standing up. It is just natural that she would increasingly delegate more functions to the CP couple. That doesn't mean she will abdicate though.

 

[tommy100]

M&F are at a golden time of life where they are both well experienced in royal duties yet also being relatively young, attractive and active. Of course people would be happy to see them as Sovereigns, sadly that not how monarchies one.

 

[Blog Real]

I think the Queen will not abdicate. The Queen has always said she doesn't want to abdicate. Just as the kings of the United Kingdom, Sweden and Norway do not want to abdicate either.

 

[Tarlita]

I believe Her Majesty will continue while her health remains well enough for her to carry out her duties in the way she sees it to be fitting the engagement. But if she becomes reliant on walking aids then she may seriously consider stepping down the way Queen Beatrix did.

Keeping busy in her role as sovereign now makes her happy. Cutting back on royal duties and spending more time on her hobbies would also be beneficial to her.

Whatever she decides she knows that the future with Frederik and Mary at the helm would be in good safe hands, as they are both very experienced now.

 

[Friedrich Karl II]

The queen has stated many times that she is not going to abdicate. For me it is totally her own decision. But for me monarch should reign as long as possible. Another thing is if there is some very serious scandal regarding monarch or monarch's health becomes too bad that they can't take duties.

 

[Nordic]

Cutting back on royal duties and spending more time on her hobbies would also be beneficial to her.

Article from 2018:
https://jv.dk/artikel/dronning-margrethe-imponerer-med-sin-kunst

"Queen Margrethe on Sunday morning attended the inauguration of a new pale blue antependium. An embroidery of the queen in which she has put in at least 230 hours of work on"


I've gotten the impression that she does have plenty of time for her hobbies...Perhaps she could use some of that time on her grandchildren. According to herself, she doesn't see them very often.

 

[Muhler]

Article from 2018:
https://jv.dk/artikel/dronning-margrethe-imponerer-med-sin-kunst

"Queen Margrethe on Sunday morning attended the inauguration of a new pale blue antependium. An embroidery of the queen in which she has put in at least 230 hours of work on"


I've gotten the impression that she does have plenty of time for her hobbies...Perhaps she could use some of that time on her grandchildren. According to herself, she doesn't see them very often.

That could be a good idea.
Making Christmas decorations with the grandchildren seems to be a favorite quality-time for so many here in DK.
But QMII has also admitted that she is not very patient - and I also suspect that she as an artist in her own right, tends to be caught up and work towards a goal she can see. But not necessarily the grandchildren. So being distracted by children, who may not express themselves in a similar manner and who may see things differently from her, may clash so to speak. So I think there is a danger of: "Now, let farmor show you" and then she takes over.
I also suspect a lot of her work takes place in the evenings.
Somehow I don't see QMII sitting in her couch watching baking-contests on flow-TV or stream something. ?

 

[Nordic]

That could be a good idea.
Making Christmas decorations with the grandchildren seems to be a favorite quality-time for so many here in DK.:

What I meant was: According to an article, she doesn't see her grandchildren very often. She is busy being Queen, etc etc....

But, if she does have/take time time for her hobbies, I.e. if she can use 230 h on the new antependium for Gråsten Palace Church, she could perhaps use a bit less time on her hobbies and spend a bit more time with her grandchildren. Just spend time with them. In general. Not necessarily doing anything related to her hobbies or making Christmas decorations.

 

[Muhler]

What I meant was: According to an article, she doesn't see her grandchildren very often. She is busy being Queen, etc etc....

But, if she does have/take time time for her hobbies, I.e. if she can use 230 h on the new antependium for Gråsten Palace Church, she could perhaps use a bit less time on her hobbies and spend a bit more time with her grandchildren. Just spend time with them. In general. Not necessarily doing anything related to her hobbies or making Christmas decorations.

True.

We need PH to take the grandchildren to places. Eat their ice-cream, snatch their candy and do things with them they are otherwise now allowed to do by their parents.
I hope QMII have read aloud to them, because that is something I would very much like to hear! - And see!

 

[amaryllus]

As to making more time for her grandchildren she has said in an interview matter of factly she is not the involved cozy Grandmother her own mother was. It’s just the way it is.

As long as they know are loved and she is proud of them It’s perfectly fine If she is not the stereotypical hovering doting Granny IMO

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I have never got the impression of QMII being a very cosy and playful Grandmother who adores to spend lots of time with children. I have no doubts that she loves her sons and her grandchildren and is proud of them in what they are doing, but i don’t think she loves to be around young children as much as many people expects her to do. And it’s nothing wrong with that. Not all people have the interest and patience required for that.
Prince Henrik and Queen Ingrid was a more typical ”Sunday Family Grandparent” who loved to take the grandkids on excursions, but QMII isn’t...

I don’t think QMII will abdicate unless her body and / or mind forces her into early retirement. I don’t think she sees her widowhood or back or knee issues as reasons for abdication. Rather consequences of getting older.
Prince Henrik’s dementia and death has surely made her realize that your brain can also force you into early retirement...
But she has stated over and over again that abdications may be a tradition in NL but it’s simply not the way it’s done in DK. And she seems to be very proud of that.

And i personally think an abdication by the Danish monarch would put an enormous public pressure on the Norwegian and Swedish equivalents to do the same. The public in Norway and Sweden will say ”Could she do that - then you can too”.

 

[Tarlita]

Long may she Reign!
I just love that embroidery work she has done for the church. Looks wonderful.

 

[Blog Real]

Is the Danish monarchy still popular?

 

[Denville]

True.

We need PH to take the grandchildren to places. Eat their ice-cream, snatch their candy and do things with them they are otherwise now allowed to do by their parents.
I hope QMII have read aloud to them, because that is something I would very much like to hear! - And see!

I don't get the impression that she is all that involved with hr grandchildren, or the sort of grandma that enjoys taking them out and spoiling htem...

 

[Muhler]

Short and sweet: Yes.

M&F are widely popular and seen more and more by more and more as the de facto regent couple.
Queen Margrethe is also popular, as well as respected. The over time quite a few documentaries she has appeared in, has enabled people to feel they know her as a person - without diminishing the respect for her. A delicate balancing act.
Joachim has also experienced an upsurge in popularity after hosting and being the narrator of a docu about Danish history.
Our Marie hasn't been so much in the limelight lately, having spend now six months in France, but she is blessed with a personality that makes most people like her.
She also has the advantage of being an opposite for Mary, for those who are not that keen on Mary - and the other way around as well, I might add.

Benedikte is more in the background but she is very respected for always doing her job, and doing it perfectly. And few can accuse her of being lazy!

Nikolai. People are divided as to his modelling career, but that I think has just as much to do with a general bias against male models. Others think it's great he earns his own money.
And not being an active member of the DRF, he belongs more in the celebs columns. Apart from a few teenage girls, I think most are pretty indifferent about him.

- So when there is something to say about the DRF these months, it's pretty much trivialities IMO.

 

[Muhler]

I don't get the impression that she is all that involved with hr grandchildren, or the sort of grandma that enjoys taking them out and spoiling htem...

I doubt that as well.
But she has never made a secret out of the fact that she isn't the "model-grandmother" and that she deplores that. But that's just how it is. She is not comfortable with children. She is too impatient with children, also something she admits freely.

That doesn't mean her grandchildren don't like her, they probably do, but in a more hands-off way, I imagine.

 

[Blog Real]

THE Queen of Denmark could be on the verge of stepping down in favour of the first in line to the throne after giving her heartfelt backing to the next generation, royal expert Angela Mollard claimed.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...rk-Princess-Mary-Crown-Prince-Frederik-latest

 

[Muhler]

Alas, the link lead nowhere.

 

[Blog Real]

Alas, the link lead nowhere.

I already put the link again in the post.

 

[Muhler]

? I see it.

Well, if, repeat if, QMII is to abdicate this year, it won't be on this side of August. That's for sure.
The plans for the summer cruises have been made public and there is no way QMII would miss the Reunification celebrations in June, even if she has to crawl.
So our expert is speculating and doing a no better job than any of us here on TRF.

I also doubt there would be a hypothetical abdication while the Parliament is off for the summer, and they won't convene again until the first Tuesday in October, so no abdication this side of October either.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Well, since Nikolai was not present, I will say that he is not to have an official role with the DRF - or that he is unwilling to take on an official role.

I wonder if he will have a flag-day this year?

Has he had flag days after all?

A second question for the experts on the Danish royal family: At the time of Prince Nikolai's birth, was it the expectation that he and his future siblings would have an official role with the monarchy? If that was the case, when and why did the change of plans take place?

I also remain curious about the flag days.

 

[Somebody]

A second question for the experts on the Danish royal family: At the time of Prince Nikolai's birth, was it the expectation that he and his future siblings would have an official role with the monarchy? If that was the case, when and why did the change of plans take place?

I also remain curious about the flag days.

Given that Frederick had no children, there was a chance that Nikolai was to be the future king. Nonetheless, he was born a 'Highness' and not a 'Royal Highness', which might indicate that they did not necessarily expect a royal role for him - unless Frederick would remain childless of course.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Given that Frederick had no children, there was a chance that Nikolai was to be the future king. Nonetheless, he was born a 'Highness' and not a 'Royal Highness', which might indicate that they did not necessarily expect a royal role for him - unless Frederick would remain childless of course.

I assumed he was born a Highness because of the settled custom that children born to a Prince of Denmark not in the main line are born Highnesses and not Royal Highnesses. HH Princess Elisabeth (who was 64 when Nikolai was born) was never elevated to HRH, but in contrast to Nikolai, she had a minor official role and worked for the government rather than in a commercial career.

 

[Somebody]

I assumed he was born a Highness because of the settled custom that children born to a Prince of Denmark not in the main line are born Highnesses and not Royal Highnesses. HH Princess Elisabeth (who was 64 when Nikolai was born) was never elevated to HRH, but in contrast to Nikolai, she had a minor official role and worked for the government rather than in a commercial career.

She and her brothers were supposed to become main line as her uncle only had daughters. Elisabeth wanted to remain a highness, so never married - and in return showed up at some gala events (partly because there were not that many family members around I assume) but not much else (or did she when she was younger? - my recollection is only of her later years). I don't think the queen really expected her to perform official duties but also didn't want to sideline her completely.

Given that Frederik has 4 children of his own, while Margrethe had only 2; there is less need for the cousins to show up once in a while - but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

She and her brothers were supposed to become main line as her uncle only had daughters. Elisabeth wanted to remain a highness, so never married - and in return showed up at some gala events (partly because there were not that many family members around I assume) but not much else (or did she when she was younger? - my recollection is only of her later years). I don't think the queen really expected her to perform official duties but also didn't want to sideline her completely.

Given that Frederik has 4 children of his own, while Margrethe had only 2; there is less need for the cousins to show up once in a while - but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

Yes, and Princess Elisabeth also had a small number of official patronages.

You raise a good point about her minor royal role being more likely driven by her own commitment than the Queen's expectations. (I don't think it was influenced by the fact that she and her brothers were formerly supposed to become main line; King Frederik had no reservation about demoting Prince Ingolf to a count, notwithstanding that Ingolf was formerly supposed to become King.) Although I am only speculating, I agree it seems unlikely that the Queen ever offered Princess Elisabeth the option of a full-time official role. But I wonder if, at least back in 1999, she planned to offer more to her grandson than her cousin, even though their positions were equivalent.

 

[Denville]

Yes, and Princess Elisabeth also had a small number of official patronages.

You raise a good point about her minor royal role being more likely driven by her own commitment than the Queen's expectations. (I don't think it was influenced by the fact that she and her brothers were formerly supposed to become main line; King Frederik had no reservation about demoting Prince Ingolf to a count, notwithstanding that Ingolf was formerly supposed to become King.) Although I am only speculating, I agree it seems unlikely that the Queen ever offered Princess Elisabeth the option of a full-time official role. But I wonder if, at least back in 1999, she planned to offer more to her grandson than her cousin, even though their positions were equivalent.

I thought that Prince Ingolf was demoted because he made a marriage that hadn't been approved.. and that Pss Elisabeth remained single, and lived with a partner because she did not wish to lose her royal title? She didn't seem to want to undertake a role as Princess and did a job in the Civil service but she still wantd to hold onto her style and title?

 

[Somebody]

But I wonder if, at least back in 1999, she planned to offer more to her grandson than her cousin, even though their positions were equivalent.

What makes you think that might be the case? My take is that she most likely wanted to keep that option open (as would be wise as long as the heir doesn't have a heir). Had Frederik and Mary only had Christian, I would expect that they would have been glad to have Nikolai and Felix on board in at least a minor capacity (Henrik and Athena would be surplus/had not yet been born).