The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by FasterB

I´m almost 99,9% sure that it will be from the balcony at Christiansborg, since it will be there that the State Council will take place :)

So am I, FasterB, but Jon Bloch Skipper wrote Christiansborg or Amalienborg and since he's the expert....

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by Muhler

So am I, FasterB, but Jon Bloch Skipper wrote Christiansborg or Amalienborg and since he's the expert....

Ok, then you´re not the one to bash, sorry

But Jon has been wrong before and I think that he´s making a "helgardering" (don´t know the english word" here).
Why should it be on proclaimed from Amalienborg? It is after at Christiansborg that the Prime Minister and the government has its place (til huse)

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by Muhler

These pictures are normally for the press and also for the embassies in various countries.

I wrote to the court earlier this year, where I could get portraits of the queen and prince consort, as I was interested in hanging them in my office (I'm a public servant).

This wasn't very easy - the courts press office wanted to know what I would be using them for, where they were to hang and what my position is. I didn't realize it was that difficult to get my hands on, as the pictures exist in a digital format many places online (although not in a quality suited for print).

This was the reply:

Originally Posted by Astrid Agerholm Ruge

Kære Nikolaj Winther

Tak for Deres brev af den 11. april 2012 med forespørgsel om officielle portrætbilleder af Regentparret til ophængning på Deres kontor på Rådhuset i Varde. Vi kan hermed meddele, at Deres forespørgsel kan imødekommes. Billederne kan købes af fotograf Jacob Jørgensen, der har ophavsrettigheden. Han kan kontaktes for bestilling via:

JJ Film Aps
Wilders Plads 8G
1403 København K
Tlf.: 36303200

Med venlig hilsen

Astrid Agerholm Ruge

Translation:

Dear Nikolaj Winther

Thank you for your letter of 11. april 2012, requesting official portraits of the Regent couple for display at your office at Varde Municipality. We can hereby announce that your request can be accomodated. The portraits can be purchased at photographer Jacob Jørgensen, who retains the copyright. He can be contacted for order via:

JJ Film Aps
Wilders Plads 8G
1403 København K
Tlf.: 36303200

Sincerely
Astrid Agerholm Ruge

[Muhler]

Queen Beatrix abdication has of course also led to some debate here in DK as to whether QMII ought to abdicate. - Not because people in general think she has done bad, on the contrary! - But more because she deserves to retire and enjoy her retirement. In many ways the younger generation has already taken over anyway.

I saw a poll, which showed a small majority being in favour of M&F taking over, either now or within a few years.

There is no way QMII will abdicate. She has said so often enough and I think it would also be against her interpretation as a Monarch. She will remain on the throne until she dies.

However, what about Frederik and Mary? Would it be a good idea if they started a tradition like the one in the Netherlands?

Personally, I think so.
Let's be practical. Say Frederik become king when he is 50. Okay he is healthy and has access to the best possible medical care and as such he's likely to live until he is 90, perhaps older.
Okay that means that Christian will be around 55 when he becomes king. And his generation is likely to live for at least 100 years. So Christian's heir may be around 70 when he/she become a monarch and then it's starting to be a little bit grotesque.
Good grief! We'll have pensioners trying to put their special mark on their reign.
QMII was in her 30's when she became Queen, and that has very much helped her redefining what the monarchy is all about, because she became Queen when she was in her prime.

Say Frederik is 65 when he become a king. By then people will start to look at Christian and his life and probably family, rather than at how Frederik is doing.
Wouldn't it be healthier if monarchs retired around the normal retirement age?

Another part of me admittedly still clings to the tradition of once a monarch, you die a monarch.

[ricarda]

AFAIR Margrethe actually said she will not abdicate as long as she is physically and mentally able to do the job.

I think for the monarchies itself it would be healthier if the idea "monarch until death" would be given up. The Dutch and Luxembourg way seems more modern and realistic to me.
As I said in a Dutch thread I find the British situation really problematic, with an heir already in retirement age who - given his mother's good health and genes - might still not ascend the throne for another decade or more and will probably be older at his coronation than Beatrix is at her abdication. What will he be able to do or change then?

I also think that a monarch's reign should not be too long, because the result usually is stagnation. But it's the heir who has to face all the problems afterwards. In my country Franz Joseph was emperor for 68 years and that was definitely too long. But it was Karl who had to pay the bill (there was a lost world war of course).

And the poll I saw (DR) did not have a small majority for abdication but a vast (89%).

[Archduchess Zelia]

I personally like that QMII feel the way she does about abdication, it shows her strong sense of duty to her role as a monarch. Also, it isn't certain that Frederik will live as long as his mother and grandmother, something unexpected could come up. Take for instance King Frederik IX, QMII's father, he died unexpectedly from the flu. Say QMII abdicates in two years and a half when she's 75, at that time Frederik will be around 47 and little Christian will be around 9-10. Then say thirteen years go on, Frederik will be 60 and Christian will be about 23, however something unexpected and tragic happens and Frederik dies, then a 23 year old, unexperienced Christian will be King and that wont be nice for anyone, least of all for Christian. At that point, QMII would be around 88 and possibly still alive and fit to be a monarch, and her not abdicating could have spared Christian from a lot of trouble. Obviously this is all hypothetical and I'm sure Frederik will live for a very long time, but that's just one of the reasons why I think abdication is a bad thing; it could go well but it could also go very wrong.

On the other hand I definitely think that it is fair for an old lady (or man) who has reached the age of retirement with several years, to have some years for the family without having reigning a country as her/his main priority. I think it depends on the situation.

[royalistbert]

I don't like the idea of abdicating monarch losing there title. Once a Monarch always a Monarch.

[ricarda]

Originally Posted by royalistbert

I don't like the idea of abdicating monarch losing there title. Once a Monarch always a Monarch.

Yes, that "Princess Beatrix" thing sounds odd to me too. I don't see why there couldn't be 2 Queens, especially since one is only a Queen Consort and the new monarch is a king. In Dk there was a Queen Ingrid and a Queen Margrethe for a long time.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by ricarda

Yes, that "Princess Beatrix" thing sounds odd to me too. I don't see why there couldn't be 2 Queens, especially since one is only a Queen Consort and the new monarch is a king. In Dk there was a Queen Ingrid and a Queen Margrethe for a long time.

Even in the Netherlands. From 1849-1865 there where Queen Sophie and Queen Anna Pavlovna the widow of Willem II. And from 1890-1934 there where Queen Wilhelmina and Queen Mother Emma.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

I personally like that QMII feel the way she does about abdication, it shows her strong sense of duty to her role as a monarch. Also, it isn't certain that Frederik will live as long as his mother and grandmother, something unexpected could come up. Take for instance King Frederik IX, QMII's father, he died unexpectedly from the flu. Say QMII abdicates in two years and a half when she's 75, at that time Frederik will be around 47 and little Christian will be around 9-10. Then say thirteen years go on, Frederik will be 60 and Christian will be about 23, however something unexpected and tragic happens and Frederik dies, then a 23 year old, unexperienced Christian will be King and that wont be nice for anyone, least of all for Christian. At that point, QMII would be around 88 and possibly still alive and fit to be a monarch, and her not abdicating could have spared Christian from a lot of trouble. Obviously this is all hypothetical and I'm sure Frederik will live for a very long time, but that's just one of the reasons why I think abdication is a bad thing; it could go well but it could also go very wrong.

On the other hand I definitely think that it is fair for an old lady (or man) who has reached the age of retirement with several years, to have some years for the family without having reigning a country as her/his main priority. I think it depends on the situation.

True, but the risk of a premature death is something royals have had to face for centuries. And if royals beforehand could adapt to becoming a monarch at a very early age, then modern royals, who don't have to concern themselves with usurpers but instead have relatives willing to help and advisors, surely can too. - The main enemies nowadays are basically the royals themselves and the press.

If the heir is still a child, someone, presumably the previous monarch or the next in line will act as regent and also assist the young monarch as much as possible.

According to a statistic I once read, one if five will die before they grow old. I.e. reach retirement age. And as some people are more likely to die young than others (like drug addicts, base jumpers and people who have a dangerous occupation etc.), I'd say the odds of a child suddenly ending up on the throne are pretty slim.

[kathia_sophia]

^i dont think they are that slim of a child suddenly ending up on the throne.
Beatrix's abdication will increase the possibility of Catharina-Amalia take the throne young, of course if it were to happen something to WA.
just like in Sweden, King Carl Gustaf was King because when his grandfather died, his father was deceased long before, so imagine if his grandfather died before his father Prince Gustaf Adolf, and thus he would have been King but the disaster happened and he died (like he did), months old baby Carl Gustaf would've been King...

Queen Margrethe will be The Queen until she dies, maybe yes when Frederik ascends he will not be that young, but Christian will still be young when he becomes the Crown Prince. nowadays people have children late, in their mid-30s, so it would be normal that in 40-50 years from now, we will have many young Kings and Queens.
thats why Great Britain is suffering from it, QEII had Charles in her earlier 20s, if she had him in her mid-30s, Charles would be much younger now and less debate about his age and the throne would happen.

[GracieGiraffe]

Queen Margrethe should stay on the throne for as long as possible. I can't see Fred as king and Mary is too busy with four young children to prop him up for the time being.

JMHO, of course. I never thought Fred wanted to be king, and I don't think he's inspiring as a crown prince.

[ricarda]

No less inspiring than Willem-Alexander but much more appealing IMHO. And with more friendliness and tact.
WA comes across as an elephant in the china shop most of the time (real-life experience). But with his charming wife at his side and his mother as advisor in the background I think WA will make a passable king.

[DukeOfAster]

Wow!! One person choice does not have to be anothers. I feel it is monarch til death and i feel we should respect those who agree. I am sorry you will not see the current Crown Prince as King for a while but do not make a person go against her principles over petty desires.

[kathia_sophia]

Frederik is a nicely Crown Prince, though i cant imagine him now as a King, it misses something from him, cant exactly say what is it...maybe he needs to expand more his duties??? i dont know... but one thing im sure about, he along with his wife will have the most regal and majestic names when monarch and consort: King Frederik and Queen Mary, how nice!!!!!!!!

i dont know much about what work WA does regulary, but he is approachable and friendly, he will be a kind King that cares most about his people.

the most hardworking crown prince, in my opinion is Prince Felipe, in last 2 years, he's been working extremely hard and has had many duties from the King (when he was in hospital,recovery, etc...), i believe he has more experience in what is to be King, at least he felt a bit of it while taking the role of his father when JC was unable to (as i stated above).

[ricarda]

Dear DukeofAster, as far as I am concerned, Queen Margrethe can stay on the throne as long as she wants. I will not make her go against her principles. And I think F&M's children are too young now.

I was simply expressing my opinions.

katia_sophia, as I was counting the events last year I can tell that Frederik came in 2nd after Queen MII (and a lot of her events are those which come automatically when you are monarch, audiences etc.). He was regent for 41 days and seemed to manage. And he certainly will be a kind king who cares most about his people and IMO can connect better with them than his mother, the current Queen.

[GracieGiraffe]

I suppose it doesn't matter what our opinion is, I think Margrethe follows her own mind. She might consider the thoughts of the Danish people however, but I think she'll remain for the time being.

We don't know what tomorrow brings for any of us. Look at Friso in the Netherlands or the late Princess Diana.

[polyesco]

Originally Posted by ricarda

Dear DukeofAster, as far as I am concerned, Queen Margrethe can stay on the throne as long as she wants. I will not make her go against her principles. And I think F&M's children are too young now.

I was simply expressing my opinions.

katia_sophia, as I was counting the events last year I can tell that Frederik came in 2nd after Queen MII (and a lot of her events are those which come automatically when you are monarch, audiences etc.). He was regent for 41 days and seemed to manage. And he certainly will be a kind king who cares most about his people and IMO can connect better with them than his mother, the current Queen.

I agree.
I think Frederik will be great as King. Just like Margrethe is great as Queen now. they both have different strengths IMO.

I just dont see Margrethe abdicating unless something big happens (health wise, Henrik, etc.)
Plus it would be nice for the F&M kids to be a bit older before their parents become king and queen

[vkrish]

Now I see people are going with the flow on the topic of abdication, mostly emotional. But I firmly believe in "Monarchy till death". Here are a few points I wll like to make:

1. Who will exactly decide the age or time to abdicate? It is toltally the discretion of the monarch. People bring so many factors into it..Like the heir is old enough? The heir's kids are old enough? Is the heir suitable?
There is never a total agreement on these things.. So abdication is not "natural"

2.Constitutional monarchy is not ideal place for discretions/decisions. You are not a monarch because you wanted. You are one, just because you are born into it. And you continue in that as long as you are supposed to continue..
Just like everything is "By the Grace/Will of God".

PS: I respect the Dutch tradition and the QUeen's decision, but I dont like all other Royal family threads being flooded with calls to follow suite, especially Danish and Spanish (People seem to have stopped expecting EII to abdicate)

3.It is not right to say people becoming monarchs at old age will be less popular. They dont suddenly come out of blue when they are in 70s. They have been in public eye for several decades, get enough oppurtunity to do some "real work" for their nation, and make their mark.
In fact, monarchs are always best as father-figures, someone we can respect and revere, rather than someone we wanna party with.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by vkrish

1. Who will exactly decide the age or time to abdicate? It is toltally the discretion of the monarch. People bring so many factors into it..Like the heir is old enough? The heir's kids are old enough? Is the heir suitable?
There is never a total agreement on these things.. So abdication is not "natural"

2.Constitutional monarchy is not ideal place for discretions/decisions. You are not a monarch because you wanted. You are one, just because you are born into it. And you continue in that as long as you are supposed to continue..
Just like everything is "By the Grace/Will of God".

PS: respect the Dutch tradition and the QUeen's decision, but I dont like all other Royal family threads being flooded with calls to follow suite, especially Danish and Spanish (People seem to have stopped expecting EII to abdicate)
.

Doesn't matter if the heir's old enough, suitable or what age the heir's kids are. Beatrix could have died when WA was 8, and he would have been King then, albeit with a regent. Death isn't planned like an abdication, so I think heirs would prefer a little notice to having bereavement and enthronement thrust upon them in the same day.

God gave us such a thing as free will, Monarchs were born into their royal but everything they do after that is up to them. Every abdicating monarch has their reasons, mostly family related - look what Beatrix has been through this year.

There are reasons why the Spanish King is being called to abdicate, as for other threads it's just a discussion.