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  #381  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:11 AM
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I personally like that QMII feel the way she does about abdication, it shows her strong sense of duty to her role as a monarch. Also, it isn't certain that Frederik will live as long as his mother and grandmother, something unexpected could come up. Take for instance King Frederik IX, QMII's father, he died unexpectedly from the flu. Say QMII abdicates in two years and a half when she's 75, at that time Frederik will be around 47 and little Christian will be around 9-10. Then say thirteen years go on, Frederik will be 60 and Christian will be about 23, however something unexpected and tragic happens and Frederik dies, then a 23 year old, unexperienced Christian will be King and that wont be nice for anyone, least of all for Christian. At that point, QMII would be around 88 and possibly still alive and fit to be a monarch, and her not abdicating could have spared Christian from a lot of trouble. Obviously this is all hypothetical and I'm sure Frederik will live for a very long time, but that's just one of the reasons why I think abdication is a bad thing; it could go well but it could also go very wrong.

On the other hand I definitely think that it is fair for an old lady (or man) who has reached the age of retirement with several years, to have some years for the family without having reigning a country as her/his main priority. I think it depends on the situation.
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  #382  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:20 AM
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I don't like the idea of abdicating monarch losing there title. Once a Monarch always a Monarch.
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  #383  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by royalistbert View Post
I don't like the idea of abdicating monarch losing there title. Once a Monarch always a Monarch.
Yes, that "Princess Beatrix" thing sounds odd to me too. I don't see why there couldn't be 2 Queens, especially since one is only a Queen Consort and the new monarch is a king. In Dk there was a Queen Ingrid and a Queen Margrethe for a long time.
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  #384  
Old 01-29-2013, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
Yes, that "Princess Beatrix" thing sounds odd to me too. I don't see why there couldn't be 2 Queens, especially since one is only a Queen Consort and the new monarch is a king. In Dk there was a Queen Ingrid and a Queen Margrethe for a long time.
Even in the Netherlands. From 1849-1865 there where Queen Sophie and Queen Anna Pavlovna the widow of Willem II. And from 1890-1934 there where Queen Wilhelmina and Queen Mother Emma.
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  #385  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I personally like that QMII feel the way she does about abdication, it shows her strong sense of duty to her role as a monarch. Also, it isn't certain that Frederik will live as long as his mother and grandmother, something unexpected could come up. Take for instance King Frederik IX, QMII's father, he died unexpectedly from the flu. Say QMII abdicates in two years and a half when she's 75, at that time Frederik will be around 47 and little Christian will be around 9-10. Then say thirteen years go on, Frederik will be 60 and Christian will be about 23, however something unexpected and tragic happens and Frederik dies, then a 23 year old, unexperienced Christian will be King and that wont be nice for anyone, least of all for Christian. At that point, QMII would be around 88 and possibly still alive and fit to be a monarch, and her not abdicating could have spared Christian from a lot of trouble. Obviously this is all hypothetical and I'm sure Frederik will live for a very long time, but that's just one of the reasons why I think abdication is a bad thing; it could go well but it could also go very wrong.

On the other hand I definitely think that it is fair for an old lady (or man) who has reached the age of retirement with several years, to have some years for the family without having reigning a country as her/his main priority. I think it depends on the situation.
True, but the risk of a premature death is something royals have had to face for centuries. And if royals beforehand could adapt to becoming a monarch at a very early age, then modern royals, who don't have to concern themselves with usurpers but instead have relatives willing to help and advisors, surely can too. - The main enemies nowadays are basically the royals themselves and the press.

If the heir is still a child, someone, presumably the previous monarch or the next in line will act as regent and also assist the young monarch as much as possible.

According to a statistic I once read, one if five will die before they grow old. I.e. reach retirement age. And as some people are more likely to die young than others (like drug addicts, base jumpers and people who have a dangerous occupation etc.), I'd say the odds of a child suddenly ending up on the throne are pretty slim.
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  #386  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:52 AM
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^i dont think they are that slim of a child suddenly ending up on the throne.
Beatrix's abdication will increase the possibility of Catharina-Amalia take the throne young, of course if it were to happen something to WA.
just like in Sweden, King Carl Gustaf was King because when his grandfather died, his father was deceased long before, so imagine if his grandfather died before his father Prince Gustaf Adolf, and thus he would have been King but the disaster happened and he died (like he did), months old baby Carl Gustaf would've been King...

Queen Margrethe will be The Queen until she dies, maybe yes when Frederik ascends he will not be that young, but Christian will still be young when he becomes the Crown Prince. nowadays people have children late, in their mid-30s, so it would be normal that in 40-50 years from now, we will have many young Kings and Queens.
thats why Great Britain is suffering from it, QEII had Charles in her earlier 20s, if she had him in her mid-30s, Charles would be much younger now and less debate about his age and the throne would happen.
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  #387  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:02 AM
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Queen Margrethe should stay on the throne for as long as possible. I can't see Fred as king and Mary is too busy with four young children to prop him up for the time being.

JMHO, of course. I never thought Fred wanted to be king, and I don't think he's inspiring as a crown prince.
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  #388  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:20 AM
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No less inspiring than Willem-Alexander but much more appealing IMHO. And with more friendliness and tact.
WA comes across as an elephant in the china shop most of the time (real-life experience). But with his charming wife at his side and his mother as advisor in the background I think WA will make a passable king.
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  #389  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:27 AM
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Wow!! One person choice does not have to be anothers. I feel it is monarch til death and i feel we should respect those who agree. I am sorry you will not see the current Crown Prince as King for a while but do not make a person go against her principles over petty desires.
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  #390  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:31 AM
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Frederik is a nicely Crown Prince, though i cant imagine him now as a King, it misses something from him, cant exactly say what is it...maybe he needs to expand more his duties??? i dont know... but one thing im sure about, he along with his wife will have the most regal and majestic names when monarch and consort: King Frederik and Queen Mary, how nice!!!!!!!!

i dont know much about what work WA does regulary, but he is approachable and friendly, he will be a kind King that cares most about his people.

the most hardworking crown prince, in my opinion is Prince Felipe, in last 2 years, he's been working extremely hard and has had many duties from the King (when he was in hospital,recovery, etc...), i believe he has more experience in what is to be King, at least he felt a bit of it while taking the role of his father when JC was unable to (as i stated above).
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  #391  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:57 AM
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Dear DukeofAster, as far as I am concerned, Queen Margrethe can stay on the throne as long as she wants. I will not make her go against her principles. And I think F&M's children are too young now.

I was simply expressing my opinions.

katia_sophia, as I was counting the events last year I can tell that Frederik came in 2nd after Queen MII (and a lot of her events are those which come automatically when you are monarch, audiences etc.). He was regent for 41 days and seemed to manage. And he certainly will be a kind king who cares most about his people and IMO can connect better with them than his mother, the current Queen.
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  #392  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:00 PM
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I suppose it doesn't matter what our opinion is, I think Margrethe follows her own mind. She might consider the thoughts of the Danish people however, but I think she'll remain for the time being.

We don't know what tomorrow brings for any of us. Look at Friso in the Netherlands or the late Princess Diana.
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  #393  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
Dear DukeofAster, as far as I am concerned, Queen Margrethe can stay on the throne as long as she wants. I will not make her go against her principles. And I think F&M's children are too young now.

I was simply expressing my opinions.

katia_sophia, as I was counting the events last year I can tell that Frederik came in 2nd after Queen MII (and a lot of her events are those which come automatically when you are monarch, audiences etc.). He was regent for 41 days and seemed to manage. And he certainly will be a kind king who cares most about his people and IMO can connect better with them than his mother, the current Queen.
I agree.
I think Frederik will be great as King. Just like Margrethe is great as Queen now. they both have different strengths IMO.

I just dont see Margrethe abdicating unless something big happens (health wise, Henrik, etc.)
Plus it would be nice for the F&M kids to be a bit older before their parents become king and queen
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  #394  
Old 01-29-2013, 01:45 PM
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Now I see people are going with the flow on the topic of abdication, mostly emotional. But I firmly believe in "Monarchy till death". Here are a few points I wll like to make:

1. Who will exactly decide the age or time to abdicate? It is toltally the discretion of the monarch. People bring so many factors into it..Like the heir is old enough? The heir's kids are old enough? Is the heir suitable?
There is never a total agreement on these things.. So abdication is not "natural"

2.Constitutional monarchy is not ideal place for discretions/decisions. You are not a monarch because you wanted. You are one, just because you are born into it. And you continue in that as long as you are supposed to continue..
Just like everything is "By the Grace/Will of God".

PS: I respect the Dutch tradition and the QUeen's decision, but I dont like all other Royal family threads being flooded with calls to follow suite, especially Danish and Spanish (People seem to have stopped expecting EII to abdicate)

3.It is not right to say people becoming monarchs at old age will be less popular. They dont suddenly come out of blue when they are in 70s. They have been in public eye for several decades, get enough oppurtunity to do some "real work" for their nation, and make their mark.
In fact, monarchs are always best as father-figures, someone we can respect and revere, rather than someone we wanna party with.
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  #395  
Old 01-29-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post

1. Who will exactly decide the age or time to abdicate? It is toltally the discretion of the monarch. People bring so many factors into it..Like the heir is old enough? The heir's kids are old enough? Is the heir suitable?
There is never a total agreement on these things.. So abdication is not "natural"

2.Constitutional monarchy is not ideal place for discretions/decisions. You are not a monarch because you wanted. You are one, just because you are born into it. And you continue in that as long as you are supposed to continue..
Just like everything is "By the Grace/Will of God".

PS: respect the Dutch tradition and the QUeen's decision, but I dont like all other Royal family threads being flooded with calls to follow suite, especially Danish and Spanish (People seem to have stopped expecting EII to abdicate)
.
Doesn't matter if the heir's old enough, suitable or what age the heir's kids are. Beatrix could have died when WA was 8, and he would have been King then, albeit with a regent. Death isn't planned like an abdication, so I think heirs would prefer a little notice to having bereavement and enthronement thrust upon them in the same day.

God gave us such a thing as free will, Monarchs were born into their royal but everything they do after that is up to them. Every abdicating monarch has their reasons, mostly family related - look what Beatrix has been through this year.

There are reasons why the Spanish King is being called to abdicate, as for other threads it's just a discussion.
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  #396  
Old 01-29-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Even in the Netherlands. From 1849-1865 there where Queen Sophie and Queen Anna Pavlovna the widow of Willem II. And from 1890-1934 there where Queen Wilhelmina and Queen Mother Emma.
Of the ladies you mention only Wilhemina was Queen Regnant. The other ladies were Queen Consorts and Queen Dowagers, with Emma also being Regent for 10 years. It was Wilhemina's personal choice to revert to the title of Princess, now it is the law that an abdicated monarch reverts to prince/princess. Upon abdication they are constitutionally dead, no longer queen.
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  #397  
Old 01-29-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
Why should it be on proclaimed from Amalienborg? It is after at Christiansborg that the Prime Minister and
the government has its place (til huse)
I'll second that! Christiansborg is the seat of the parliament, while Amalienborg is a residence. King Frederik X and Queen Mary and the
kids might decide to appear on the balcony after the proclamation at Christiansborg, but it would mainly be for the benefit of the children
of the local kindergartens , a bit like the Queen's birthday!

Queen Beatrix's word about it being time that 'the next generation take over' must have hit home in various courts in Europe! Somehow I keep hearing Queen Margrethe's statement that she'll 'stay put till she falls of the perch'!

And a thought on the situation in Denmark:
While I concede that Queen Margrethe has been an excellent monarch
in many ways I'm increasingly convinced that CP Frederik should take
over in the not too distant future. Somehow she appears very
old-world-like these days! Most monarchies seem to have seen the
writing on the wall! The times are changing! Their reason d'etre is not
the grace of God but the grace of their people. While I won't deny
the monarchs the right of understanding their office as a vocation,
nowadays they are first and foremost servants of the people! I don't
know whether it's just me, but IMO the Danish RF have had so much
tail wind in recent years that it has blinded them to the fact that
other RFs are in the proces of redifining their roles in a post modern democracy.

Maybe CP Frederik lacks a bit in the maturity department, but then
again maybe the top job would be the best finishing school for him!
We don't need a repetition of the fate of CP Frederik VIII (1906-1912), who acceeded at 63.

Viv
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  #398  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:55 PM
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I believe the only way Queen Margrethe will abdicate is if her health stops her from performing her duties. I remember Queen Juliana attending many official events after her abdication. So its not like an abdicated monarch will never be seen again. But long may Queen Margrethe reign. And I sincerely hope she enjoys good health for a great many years to come.
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  #399  
Old 01-30-2013, 05:34 AM
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For me, it's to the death.

However, if the monarch sees fit to have someone else (the heir apparant) do some of the jobs, then find by me. That way the Monarch can "retire" while not letting go altogether.

Also, one should not discount the possibility of dementia or other cognitive challenges arising as the monarch gets older. Then it will be the Heir Apparant's duty to take over as regent, if the monarch him-/herself doesn't manage to make that decision on his/her own.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:50 AM
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You mean he/she stays monarch, keeps the title and position but his/her heir does the work?
Seems quite unfair towards the heir (what if he dies first?). And would empty the title King/Queen of any meaning. Dangerous IMO, could lead to people saying: we can do without a king/queen.
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