The Danish Order of Precendence


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MissP

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.... She (<CP Mary>) has an immense curtsey though! On the pictures I wondered what she doing, and then in the video I saw it in action. I think she has bouncy shins! ....
 
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Thanks Marika and Dazzling. :flowers:

I'm not sure I liked Mary's coat but it did suit her, and pattern and style-wise did disguise her bump. She has an immense curtsey though! On the pictures I wondered what she doing, and then in the video I saw it in action. I think she has bouncy shins!

I thought Marie looked stunning. The whole outfit was gorgeous, and she shone.

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Amen! I don't know how a 5 months pregnant woman with twins can curtsey that low, but Mary did!!! It is a testament to how physically fit CP Mary is!:flowers::p
 
I did not like Marys outfit - too many clashing colours for my liking , and her curtsey still seems very awkward.
 
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Thanks for the pix and video. nice to see everyone together.
I did not like Marys outfit - too many clashing colours for my liking , and her curtsey still seems very awkward.
Marie looks wonderful as always.:flowers:

I think the growing belly may have had something to do with Mary's curtsy looking awkward:lol:
 
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I think the growing belly may have had something to do with Mary's curtsy looking awkward
Exactly! At least she was able to curtsy..and that low too - 5 months pregnant and carrying twins no less! I wonder how many women would be able to do the same - pregnant or not!

At least CP Mary's father-in-law was very appreciative of her curtsy:whistling::whistling:
Se alle billederne: Folketingets åbning | www.bt.dk (PHOTO 19)
Se alle billederne: Folketingets åbning | www.bt.dk (PHOTO 20)
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And so was the Queen!:whistling::p
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It is more important to ask why anyone curtseys, which is riduclous. Lord knows, pregnant with twins that was quite an effort.
 
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Mary looked great. Nothing clashing. Bold, clashing means "not going together". It is more important to ask why anyone curtseys, which is riduclous. Lord knows, pregnant with twins that was quite an effort.

Mary's curtsy's are often quite deep, by her own choice, and she seems perfectly content with that.

It really comes down to tradition. A sign of respect for the position in what is fundamentally a hierarchy. Call it archaic if you should so wish, but it's only rediculous if you don't understand why it is what it is and why it's still performed by those who are happy to do so.

That said, I quite agree. She looked lovely.
 
She has an immense curtsey though! On the pictures I wondered what she doing, and then in the video I saw it in action. I think she has bouncy shins!

I have to agree, Mary's curtsey is definitely very low but then again, so is Marie's, as demonstrated in the video where we saw her curtsey to Prince Henrik. I am awed that Mary is able to accomplish such grace at five months pregnant though. I have noticed that both princesses only give such formal curtsey's at "State" occassions such as this.
 
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I think you are right because I remember Marie curtseying to QMII when they met at the Ballet. (Marie was pregnant at that time)
 
Only when in public, so it would seem :)

Sure it's part of the show. :p

No need to make a song and dance act, when there is no audience around, is there?
I think QMII is grand enough to only expect a kiss on the cheek, when they meet in private.
 
Mary's curtsy's are often quite deep, by her own choice, and she seems perfectly content with that.

It really comes down to tradition. A sign of respect for the position in what is fundamentally a hierarchy. Call it archaic if you should so wish, but it's only rediculous if you don't understand why it is what it is and why it's still performed by those who are happy to do so.

That said, I quite agree. She looked lovely.

How do you know it is by her own choice ??

Only when in public, so it would seem :)

Again, how do you know what they do in private ?
 
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I think the courtsy is pretty well rehersed and also well "founded". If you look at who does it, it's the non-royal women. The Queens sister didn't courtsy, nor does her sons bow deeply. It's not something Mary or Marie came up with on their own accord. More likely it's something (re)instated by the Queen who has a certain fondness for tradition and rituals (many of which her own mother, Ingrid, removed).

Personally, I absolutely love it when women courtsy their "superiours" (be it small children that courtsy their grandparents on their 25 or 50th anniversary, or "civilians" meeting persons of another rank (i.e. royalty, ministers or presidents), just as I liked that Søren Espersen (mp) bowed his head visibly, whereas Mogens Lykketoft and Holger K. Nielsen merely nodded (at best). (All three are members of the parliaments official leadership - Presidiet - not sure what it is in English). Boys and girls have forgotten how to greet their elders in a polite manner. And after all, this is not the odd lady in the street, but Royalty, for goodness sake!

I'm also pretty sure that it's only as pronounced when they meet in public. I doubt that the Queen expects her Daughter-in-Law to courtesy when they pass each-other in the hallway, but I wouldn't be surprised if a minor "marked" courtsy could sneak itself in when they meet informally. But that's pure speculation.
 
Again, how do you know what they do in private ?

We can't know for certain, without asking the DRF.

From what I've seen on documentaries, and other meetings photographed from a distance Mary at least only kiss QMII and Prince Henrik on the cheek, when they meet.

When they are on the job Mary and the fair Marie curtesey.
Apart from being appropriate, i.e. showing respect for the head of state I also find it charming.
 
How do you know it is by her own choice ??

There has been many pictures and videos over the years that show Mary doing this. You can tell she has a deep respect and IMO love for her MIL.
I would think when she was going through her "training classes" for becoming a royal and a member of the DRF this is the way she was taught to greet her MIL in public. Why is it such a big deal now? When President Obama was there she also greeted Queen Sofia in the same way. A very deep curtsey. They deserve the respect that is shown to them.
 
How do you know it is by her own choice ??

Because if she didn't want to curtsy so deep, she's under no obligation to do so. There is no set 'depth' by which a curtsy can be accurately measured, as logic would have it . . .

Again, how do you know what they do in private ?

Lets call it a substantiated argument that every time Mary greets her parents in-law in private it's with a kiss, not a curtsy.

The documentaries or photographic accounts I've seen over the past 7 years support the statement.

It's a wonderful thing to have an opinion formed with sources of a credible nature that are available to anyone who should care to make the most of them :)
 
Because if she didn't want to curtsy so deep, she's under no obligation to do so. There is no set 'depth' by which a curtsy can be accurately measured, as logic would have it . . .

LOL MR be ready to be asked are you sure on this one. This is getting very old very fast. Great answers as always!:flowers:
 
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I might be getting a little bit off topic here but, what I don't get very well is who has to curtsey. Bendikte doesn't and that makes sense to me I can't picture my sister curteseying to me or the other way around without cracking into laughter, nor does Fred and Joachim bow their heads. Will Isabella have to curtsey to grandma when she's old enough?
 
I think it depends on the House.

Charles has bowed to his mother, Queen Elizabeth before he goes in for the kiss. I think I have seen William and Harry do the same. Phillip used to bow to Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother before she died. And then he would kiss her as well. I do remember Diana, Sarah, and recently Camilla and Sophie curtseying to the Queen as well.

I certainly don't imagine that they do this in private. But since its in private, who knows what they do...they could do a jig for all we know:ROFLMAO:
 
I believe that Mary and Marie both curtsey as a mark of respect however this is in public only. I'm sure at home in private they do not curtsey to each other. Mary and Marie are both very elegant at it but I doubt in a few months whether Mary will make it that low!

What irks me slightly is that on occasion I notice the Queen and Prince Consort almost brushing aside the act and while the ladies curtsey they have almost moved onto the next person.
 
I think the "important" part of the welcome is the kiss on the cheek :) Btw. neither Marie nor Mary curtseyed to Benedikte :)
 
No I wouldn't imagine that they do. Is there an Order of Precedence in Denmark as there is in the UK? If that is the case, don't they rank higher than her as a result of their marriage.

Something like this:

Queen of Denmark (Henrik)
Crown Prince Frederik (Mary)
Prince Joachim (Marie)
Beneditke
Elizabeth

As Frederik currently outranks his father, etc.
 
What irks me slightly is that on occasion I notice the Queen and Prince Consort almost brushing aside the act and while the ladies curtsey they have almost moved onto the next person.

Agree, if you only judge from the pictures. The curtsey, from both Mary and Marie takes at most about two seconds. It happens fast!
If you look in one of the pictures, it looks to me that That Mary is very much using Henrik's hand as support. She has a fairly firm grip on her hand.
- And it takes place after the kissing of the cheeks.
A bow or a curtsey can be compared to a salute. You still salute whether it's noticed or not.

And it's also a fine balance. If the Regent Couple were to stand still and just keep looking at M&M while they curtsey, it can so easily be misinterpreted.
Something akin to: "Now Mary/Marie, be sure to remember to curtsey for me. You must show me respect. Good. There's a good girl".

Jon Bloch Skipper, a historian, was asked recently why Frederik and Joachim do not bow. He suggested that they did not in order not to be seen as too formal, almost akward in their behaviour. In other words that onlookers would appreciate the warmer kisses between what is after all family members more, than the formal show of respect by bowing.

Denmark is a society with a lot of emphasis on egalitarianism. Many show their respect for the DRF by bowing/curtseying, because they want to, not because they have to. And it is perhaps in this light we should view these nuances in behaviour.

As for the MP's who only nodded slightly, mentioned by nwinther. Mogens Lykketoft is a Social Democrat, and leaning towards the left of that party. Holger K. Nielsen, is from the Socialist People's Party. Their behavior is founded in their political beliefs. Both of them respect QMII very much, but they do not, from an ideological point of view accept the concept of a majesty. As such they do not bow.
Søren Espersen, is from the Danish People's Party. Which is a nationalist party (perhaps more correctly, extreme right wing Social Democrats, but that's another story) which is very much in favour of the monarchy, as such it would be most unfortunate, if he did not bow to QMII.

No I wouldn't imagine that they do. Is there an Order of Precedence in Denmark as there is in the UK? If that is the case, don't they rank higher than her as a result of their marriage.

Something like this:

Queen of Denmark (Henrik)
Crown Prince Frederik (Mary)
Prince Joachim (Marie)
Beneditke
Elizabeth

As Frederik currently outranks his father, etc.

That's correct. Mary and Marie follow their husbands.

Constitutionally speaking Frederik already outranks his father. According to the protocol, he does not, - as long as QMII is alive.
The second Frederik become a king, he outranks everybody else in every official capacity.
What respect he will show his father, as a widower, in private is interesting to speculate about.

Theoretically speaking there is nothing to hinder Mary from acting as a Regent (actually Rigsforstander) in case, QMII, Frederik, Joachim and Benedikte were incapacitated or outside Danish soil.
In which case, Mary would constitutionally speaking outrank her father-in-law.
- One might fear he would get another fit! :whistling:
 
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Slightly off topic question ---- how many political parties do you guys have there in Denmark?
 
Muhler, thank you for all your time in explaining things to us. I have learned so much from you since I have been a member. You are able to do it for this Texan/American where I am able to understand how the DRF works. It did not take me long to understand that the PC is another matter altogether when it comes to how the DRF operate. lol It is always fascinating hearing from you.
 
Slightly off topic question ---- how many political parties do you guys have there in Denmark?

The Unity List.
Liberal Alliance.
The Conservatives.
Socialist People's Party.
The Social Democrats.
The Liberals.
The Danish People's Party.
The Radicals.

From a Social Democrat view, and not entirely joking, they can be divided into this:
The Social Democrats. - The mother party.
The Unity list. - Extreme left wing Social Democrats, who wish to turn DK into a soviet.
Liberal Alliance. - Anti-social and selfish, who could be good Social Democrats, if they see the Light.
The Conservatives. - They could be good Social Democrats, if they realised the need for sharing their wealth with everybody else.
The Socialist People's Party. - Left wing, Social Democrats. Who should drink less herbal tea and stop singing so many songs praising the whales.
The Liberals. - Middle class Social Democrats. With a house, a medium sized dog, a medium sized car, and 1.8 children. Both parents are employed.
The Danish People's Party. - Right wing, nationalist Social Democrats with a slight xenophobic streak.
The Radicals - Intellectual Social Democrats.

Muhler, thank you for all your time in explaining things to us. I have learned so much from you since I have been a member. You are able to do it for this Texan/American where I am able to understand how the DRF works. It did not take me long to understand that the PC is another matter altogether when it comes to how the DRF operate. lol It is always fascinating hearing from you.

Thank you, for your very kind words, dee4855 :flowers: I do appreciate it.

However, as there is no such thing as stupid questions, only stupid answers, please do not hestitate to ask if there is something in my (often very long explanations:whistling:) you do not understand.
 
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Yes thank you Muhler.

Such great information and so MANY political parties. And they all run for office?

Well certainly those who don't bow to the Queen have the right to their beliefs and the right to express it. As long as everyone behaves as mature and civil adults....thats the key to a civil society. Or so I have been told:whistling:
 
I might be getting a little bit off topic here but, what I don't get very well is who has to curtsey. Bendikte doesn't and that makes sense to me I can't picture my sister curteseying to me or the other way around without cracking into laughter

I'm still very confused about Benedikte's lack of curtsy. I don't think I've ever seen her curtsy to Margrethe, and technically she would be just as obligated as Mary and Marie since they are all Royal Highnesses.

Avrilo, I agree it would seem weird in a normal family, but it would be weird in a normal family for daughters-in-law to curtsy. So I don't think that matters here. :flowers:
 
I dont' remember Margaret curtseying to Elizabeth but I could have just missed it.

Sorry for the BRF references, but they are the family that I follow the most.

Does anyone know if the sisters of Beatrix or Harald or Carl Gustaf curtsey to their siblings?

They only reason for Not doing so is because they are siblings of the monarchs and of the royal blood? I don't know.
 
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