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  #1  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:07 AM
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The Danish Monarchy: Is it worth it? Nationalism or a National Waste?

I entirely agree with you. It is the lack of purpose, that gets me too. Mary and Frede are cute and photogenic, but what was the purpose of the visit? Too see Mary in as many woolen hats as possible? To promote Danish technology or design in Iceland? The lack of purpose is the overall problem with the Danish royals today, especially with CP Frederik.He is an delightful fella, but completely lost! I believe , unless the Danish royals - and royals all over Europe for that matter - come up with something else, their days are numbered. They need to reform to stay alive and visits like the one to Iceland ,where it appears to be all about the next photo-op, does not help a monarchy survive. It merely turns the royals into celebrities like Paris Hilton or whatever they are called.
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:21 AM
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We don't need a modernized monarchy, nor in Skandinavia , nor in the UK, nor in Holland or the mini-states (Luxemburg, Liechtenstein or Monaco), Belgium, Spain.
To survive we need a United States of Europe and that will be without monarchy.
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:42 AM
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Monarchies do have a role in modern society

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Originally Posted by sjetajiem View Post
We don't need a modernized monarchy, nor in Skandinavia , nor in the UK, nor in Holland or the mini-states (Luxemburg, Liechtenstein or Monaco), Belgium, Spain.
To survive we need a United States of Europe and that will be without monarchy.
I disagree. I think monarchies have a role to play in modern society, but they need to reform and adapt. That is the biggest challenge facing today's younger generations of royals all over Europe.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sjetajiem View Post
We don't need a modernized monarchy, nor in Skandinavia , nor in the UK, nor in Holland or the mini-states (Luxemburg, Liechtenstein or Monaco), Belgium, Spain.
To survive we need a United States of Europe and that will be without monarchy.
Come again...? A United States of Europe? What on earth!!!

Each country has it's own culture, it's own history, own language and own customs. To suggest Europe becoming a singular power, with one Head of State, is beyond rediculous. It would be catastrophic beyond reason.

And here I was thinking Napoleon I was dead..
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2008, 12:44 PM
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Wonderful wrap-up?

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Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
I'm not sure what a United Europe has to do with the CP visit to Iceland so in the spirit of getting back on topic DRW has a wonderful wrap-up of the couples' visit Danish Royal Watchers: Frederik & Mary in Iceland
The trip to Iceland produced some fantastic pictures of a happy couple at work. The problem is, that this couple is representing a "company" in need of resurrection. The Danish monarchy is on life support and trips like this one to Iceland does nothing for it's health. What Frede and Mary did in Iceland is what the royals did a generation ago, horseback riding hot geysers etc. etc. Are there really no social issues at all in Iceland, CP Mary could have looked at and raised awareness for? What about renewable energy? (They stopped at only one place) By pottering along in the footsteps of previous royals - so delightfully illustrated in DRW's wrap-up of the visit with a foto montage of Frede's great grandfathers visit to the island light years ago - - Mary and Frede are not adding to the monarchy's popularity. They are merely stuffing us with pictures to stop the hungerpangs we feel as soon as we don't get our daily celebrity fix. A monarchy should be way above such a thing. A monarchy is not a photo-op. It's a living organism based on the respect of the people and on the royal family's ability to serve that people the best they can! In that respect Frede and Mary still have a long way to go. Do I think, they can do it? It depends on the girl from Hobart!
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
The Danish monarchy is on life support and trips like this one to Iceland does nothing for it's health
What exactly is it that cause you to come to this conclusion becuase I have never come across any reports that state the Danish Monarchy is in a danger, in fact from what I have seen it is a very popular one.

Quote:
What about renewable energy? (They stopped at only one place)
They visited a Geothermal power plant, Iceland has sufficient natural resources to generate all the electricity needed by mainland Europe using in part Geothermal power, however the problem they are facing is that there is now way to transport the engery to the mainland. Their visit there is not going to solve that problem but perhaps the people at home in Denmark will now be more aware of it.

Quote:
Are there really no social issues at all in Iceland, CP Mary could have looked at and raised awareness for?
There are just over 300,000 people in Iceland. It has an extraordinary low crime rate, it has a 100% literacy rate, Icelanders have one of the highest life expectancies in the world and has an good health care system that is primarily financed by the government. No there are really no social issues that they need a CP from another country to raise awareness of.
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:39 PM
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What do you suggest the royal families of the world do to modernise the rules they have stood by for century's??
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  #8  
Old 05-12-2008, 06:52 PM
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The Danish Monarchy: Is it worth it worth it? Nationalism or a National Waste?

In this democratic age, there are charges that the Danish monarchy is an anachronism, and some believe the monarchy will not survive after the death of Queen Margrethe II. With the inception of Crown Prince Frederik, who has been deemed unprepared, some believe he will be the last King of Denmark. Then there are the other issues of cultural identity and nationalism (result of interplay of capitalism, language, shared cultural connectedness, and provides a sense of common history of heroes, sacrifices, triumph, and geographical places), and the monarchy.

On the other side of the field stands those who vehemently argue that Danish monarchy is a waste of taxpayer money; furthermore, there are those who believe the Danish royals are not doing enough to earn their keep. As a result, they believe that for the sake and future of their country, Denmark, should become a republic.

So what say you? This is a topic in which all members, Danish and non-Danish, are welcome to share their opinions, comments, questions, and so forth. With that said, it is imperative that everyone remembers one thing: Respect.

I'm going to assume that the majority here on TRF are adults, and know how to behave like one when confronted with opinions that are vastly different from their own. Second, I am going to assume that more than half of you have a thorough understanding of constructive criticism and know the basic fundamentals of Argumentation 101.
If you don't, learn it.


Of course, TRF Rules and FAQ still apply.
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Our rule about speculation is intended to prevent tabloid-type flights of fancy which often slip into outright fantasy and sometimes even libel. While we realise that much of the information posted in the threads is based on reports in the media which we can't verify, we expect posters to base their statements on published reports rather than on wishful thinking or unsubstantiated hearsay. The forum moderators have the final say about whether posts are unacceptably speculative. Disagreements with moderator decisions must take place via private message, not by arguing in the threads and certainly not by reposting deleted material.


Have fun, enjoy, and we look forward to reading all of your varying thoughts and comments.


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  #9  
Old 05-13-2008, 12:05 AM
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Personally, I believe that all Monarchies will face a crisis at some point in the future.
There were times when the people could line the streets to see the royals during weddings or funerals or at other special events. Nowdays, they can see them coming in and out of night clubs,follow their romances closely, see them socializing with all sorts of people and in a lot of ways following their lives like they used to do with the movie stars. The mystery is gone and some may think it is cute romantic and very real, but what kept them there and us here was the difference between us.
People will think how much it costs them to suppport the royal families and what they get in return and may think again whether they worth it or not.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:30 AM
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In my opinion, as much as I enjoy following the lives of royalty I agree with Odette. There used to be an air about royals where they were so elitist it made them special. Now that it is becoming more common to see them associating with the society's average people I predict that eventually royal families will fade away. I often wonder if, by the time I am an old lady, there will be any royal families still supported by their country.

Even though I see royals as being the PR people of their countries I doubt people will want to pay so much for their services in the near future.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:40 AM
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CP Frederik needs to get on a fast-track to train for being the King. He has never shown any greater interest in being the next Regent. If one compare him with Spain's Felipe or Sweden's Victoria the lack of interest and work ethic is evident. Q MII is very popular and Frederik will undoubtedly be compared to her. The remake of Mary into a perfectly dressed and made up women with very little of her own personality left has not impressed the danes I have met. Danish women are smart, naturally goodlooking, fashion consious and down to earth - they have a hard time to identify with her. The Danes as well as all other royal families will face tough times in keeping the royal role relevant. Frederik will have the hardest time of the european countries - mostly because of himself.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Are there really no social issues at all in Iceland, CP Mary could have looked at and raised awareness for?
Just out of curiosity, why do you single out Mary here? As both halves of the couple were on the trip, why not both?
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:29 AM
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Before we get to far into this discussion, remember that we're only interested in your opinion. So, don't tell us what your Danish friends, your great Aunt Edna or your family think about this subject. Please provide links to published reports to support your opinions as per our new TRF rule or your post(s) may be deleted.

Have fun!

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  #14  
Old 05-13-2008, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Come again...? A United States of Europe? What on earth!!!

Each country has it's own culture, it's own history, own language and own customs. To suggest Europe becoming a singular power, with one Head of State, is beyond rediculous. It would be catastrophic beyond reason.

And here I was thinking Napoleon I was dead..
No the Head of State will not be a second Napoleon l.
The Head of State of a UE will be an elected one and will only represent, like for example in Germany.
I think a monarchical system is compleetly outdated nowadays
Nowadays we live in a democracy where we should be free to elect our Head of State.
It is compleetly strange that the son/daughter of a Head of State becomes automatically the new Head of State only because he/she is the child of....
It is against democracy!!!
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:50 AM
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Well, it can be argued the other way around too. In a European Union that slowly tries to become a monster state there is an added need in regions for symbols of their identity. The monarchy can play a role in this movement. Even in the EU gets a president the countries will keep their own heads of state, so...

--

Just out of curiosity, those who say that the monarchy should modernize and change: what should they change? We just had a poll here in The Netherlands, most of the people who participated in the poll wanted the monarchy to modernize too, but when asked HOW... no awnsers to that. And as 94% said that the CP and his wife did a good job, I fail to see why/ what should be modernized. So what should be modernized in Denmark in this case?

IMO the monarchies have modernised as much as they could, I see very little room for even more 'modernisation' for now.

And I was wondering, on what do people base their opinion that Margrethe II will be the last monarch, or that Frederik will be the last one? Isn't the Danish monarchy still very popular with the Danes?
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
Personally, I believe that all Monarchies will face a crisis at some point in the future.
There were times when the people could line the streets to see the royals during weddings or funerals or at other special events. Nowdays, they can see them coming in and out of night clubs,follow their romances closely, see them socializing with all sorts of people and in a lot of ways following their lives like they used to do with the movie stars. The mystery is gone and some may think it is cute romantic and very real, but what kept them there and us here was the difference between us.
People will think how much it costs them to suppport the royal families and what they get in return and may think again whether they worth it or not.
Quote:
In my opinion, as much as I enjoy following the lives of royalty I agree with Odette. There used to be an air about royals where they were so elitist it made them special. Now that it is becoming more common to see them associating with the society's average people I predict that eventually royal families will fade away. I often wonder if, by the time I am an old lady, there will be any royal families still supported by their country.

Even though I see royals as being the PR people of their countries I doubt people will want to pay so much for their services in the near future.
It saddens me, but I must agree with the both of you. I feel that in this age where we do see so many pictures of the royal families, doing the things that 'normal' people do (especially things like clubbing!) they begin to lose a little of the mystique, the glamour which made them 'royalty', as I had held it in my head for such a long time - something untouchable, with plenty of grandeur etc. I am not saying that that is gone (we do, after all, still have gala dinners), but the absolute 'wow' the almost over-the-top regal glamour, I dont feel that its there anymore. But then, maybe thats partly as a result of the little girl deep inside me, who loves the very thought of all the glamour, beautiful jewels, ballgowns and waltzing!

To bring myself back down to earth, I feel that there may need to be some kind a very definite... 'change' may be to strong a word but a shift, in that there needs to be relevance in the activities the RF participate in. I am not saying that associations such as the mental health, deaf and alannah and madeline are not relevant, not at all, but perhaps that there could be a shift in the way engagents occur???

(I have more to say on the topic but have lingered to long already!)
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
And I was wondering, on what do people base their opinion that Margrethe II will be the last monarch, or that Frederik will be the last one? Isn't the Danish monarchy still very popular with the Danes?
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, those who say that the monarchy should modernize and change: what should they change? We just had a poll here in The Netherlands, most of the people who participated in the poll wanted the monarchy to modernize too, but when asked HOW... no awnsers to that. And as 94% said that the CP and his wife did a good job, I fail to see why/ what should be modernized. So what should be modernized in Denmark in this case?
Denmark isn't the Netherlands. The Netherlands isn't Denmark. Two different cultures. Different cultural identity and nationalistic sentiments. Can you compare a pomegranate to an apple? It is incredibly difficult to compare these two countries for there is much difference... it's like comparing Canada and USA. Yes, the two are North American, but we are two vastly different cultures.


I must ask you, Marengo, what evidence do we have that supports the claim that every single Dane adores the monarchy, their Queen, and the future of it? I am not referring to a poll where a certain number of Danes are questioned on the street or via a telephone marketing call and therefore speak for the 5 million plus people. I would like to know: Has there ever been a required poll in which every single person living in Denmark, including the illegal immigrants, must respond or else?

Second, I was the one who stated:

Quote:
In this democratic age, there are charges that the Danish monarchy is an anachronism, and some believe the monarchy will not survive after the death of Queen Margrethe II.
There have been whispers for quite sometime that Frederik may not be prepared to take over. If he continues on his current path, perhaps it's not to far fetched to say that some should be concerned. Furthermore, I base my statements on a nice chat at a roundtable discussion sometime ago (big roundtable, I should say, with various scholars from Europe, Japan, and the US, Ph.D. and MA students from across the US, and several writers) debating the status of Europe, the EU, various monarchies and their place in the 21st century and whether or not they are relevant or a faux reality for some people and the staunch nationalistic sentiments tied to them, the influx of mass immigration/transnational shift to Western European countries and the complex changes that have and will occur, and the Xenophobic attitudes some countries are displaying towards this mass migration.

So yeah, it was me.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:25 AM
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Well, I was not comparing Denmark and The Netherlands in the way you suggest. My point was that the signals here are contradictionairy. People say they want change and ' modernization' , but when asked how...nobody had a clue, and 94% said they approved of the CP-ly couple did things at the moment. So that are conflicting signals to say the least.

And here is where this thread comes in, as some posters say they want things to modernize too, but thus far I am not able to see what it is that should be modernized and how. And if that is just a personal thing or if it is an issue with the Danish public.

I never said that every Dane adores the monarchy, I wouldn' t know if they do or don' t, but it seems very unlikely they all do. Still from what I have read over the past years I got the impression that the Danish RF is popular in Denmark and that there is a strong base of support for the institution.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:37 AM
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I see, but I must say that when you noted the recent outcome in the Netherlands it is easy to deduce the implied comparison.

For me, as an American, I cannot give an unbiased answer to your question: How do or should they modernize? What is the solution? I firm believer in meritocracy, and if I attempted to suggest some solutions it wouldn't work... did that make any sense? It is up to the people within that particular nation to solve it. And what is modernization any way? What are the barriers? And with modernization is a monarchy worth keeping? What are its functions? How can a nation have modernization if they still adhere to archaic traditions of royalty?

Refocusing on Denmark, what about this whole creation of new titles by Queen Margrethe? Is that modernizing the monarchy? Or turning it backwards? Sure it covers the "just in case" scenario, it could also be seen as an "ruh oh" moment hence Frederik by those who love to question and debate... for the sake of question and debate. Also, will these new titles raise questions, and dare I say, dissent for some people? Finally, what are the royals really doing to earn their keep and is it enough?




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Old 05-13-2008, 04:42 AM
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I think this question has been raised ever since there was something like the French Revolution and republicanism appeared on the scene. Also, the question whether the heir has the ability to become a good monarch is a very old one.

In the 60ies which was a much more revolutionary decade than this many people thought monarchies should be destroyed, Queen Beatrix had the greatest problems when she ascended the throne, in the 90ies even the monarchy per excellence, the BRF was in question because of it's elitism. But - they are still here and quite popular. (I really do not agree with other posters here, I think elitism would be the death-kiss for any monarchy in this time of egalitism. People may accept it within the older royal generations, but I don't think they would accept it from the younger.)

Of course there never was and never will be a time when every single person of a state adores the monarchy, just as not every single person in my country appreciates ("adore" is a much too strong word here) our President.
But IMO monarchies in general are more popular among the younger generations nowadays than they have been for a long time. That might change again, but for now I personally don't see revolutions ahead.

Regarding the Danish monarchy I would say they are quite popular (Not saying that there aren't any anti-monarchistic movements in DK as well). I saw an interview with the editor of the "Nord-Schleswiger", the newspaper of the German minority in DK, on German Tv last year and he said the Scandinavian royals are the most popular among the European royals, and the Danish the most popular among the Scandinavian royals. Don't know how he knows but that's what he said.
And since the queen is probably on the throne for another 15 - 20 years I don't quite see how Frederik will be able to reform anything in the near future (which of course might turn out as a problem for the monarchy).

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