The Danish Monarchy: Is it worth it? Nationalism or a National Waste?

[Marengo]

There is no 'we', in 'I'!

I don't think many people disagree with Villemann and want a monarchy without substance, so it is safe to assume that V. isn't the only one who wants a monarchy with substance. Whether the substance is lacking at the moment is open to debate of course.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

I agree,a bit.
On showing the weddings on tv?It is not entertainment,it is the future Monarch getting married,
an occasion of National importance,not some kid on the block.
There is a difference,a huge difference.

On the initial text,whomever concocted it,Is it worth it?Nationalism or National waste?Wrong headline.Very wrong.

And why is that, Lucien? Is it because you have an aversion to analytical discourse that requires for one to think differently? To question things for the sake of discussion even though it may be uncomfortable for you and others? To think about a particular issue from another angle hence outside of their normal thought process?

 

[lucien]

And why is that, Lucien? Is it because you have an aversion to analytical discourse that requires for one to think differently? To question things for the sake of discussion even though it may be uncomfortable for you and others? To think about a particular issue from another angle hence outside of their normal thought process?

That aversion you mention does not exist,well,not in my mind at least.
Questioning is OK,but keep it sensible,and that is often a difficulty wouldn't you agree?

I'm all for a Monarchy with substance,and thank goodness,the one I live in is about that instead of catwalk cats,what about yours?

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Is it difficult? Heavens no especially if one is used to this type of debate. However, they way you phrased your statement alerted me to counter-question you. So, let me say this: Why is it when one proposes the debate of What is Nationalism and is the monarchy relevant/really worth it in the 21st century many are quick to state blasphemy?

I'm all for a Monarchy with substance,and thank goodness,the one I live in is about that instead of catwalk cats,what about yours dear?

Don't you believe that is an extremely bizarre question to ask an American? Let me answer for you: Why yes, yes it is.

However, for the sake of debate, do I believe the monarchy is Denmark is worth it? Yes, I do. As long as they keep the house small and do not create more titles things will be fine. Danes seem to be pleased with their royals, and if their attitude towards life in general, hence "they don't expect much"*(which one can easily deduce to mean that they may or may not have low expectations of their royals if they have melancholy attitude), the Danish monarchy will live on. How does this tie in with Nationalism? Simple: The Danish monarchy has been around for a thousand years. This tiny country prides itself not only on their accomplishments, but the fact they have a long tradition that most nations cannot claim. Overall, it would be a disservice for Denmark if their monarchy ceased.


Finally, for the second and the last time: Do not ever call me dear again... okay? Tak.


*Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth. via 60 Minutes.

YouTube - The Happiest Nation on Earth - Denmark! Part 1 of 2
YouTube - The Happiest Nation on Earth - Denmark! Part 2 of 2

 

[lucien]

You're quite right,a bizarre question to ask an American.
Sorry about the dear,I honestly forgot what it was you are not,now I remember.

However I do agree with what you state on Denmark and its Monarchy.
Nationalism always has a sort of negative connotation tho.Denmark does take pride in its Monarchy,yes,
but that doesn't make it Nationalist,as in,for example,Mussolini's nationalism was.There is a sharp distinction
and I wish to point that out.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

It depends on the context in which it is used. Xenophobic Nationalism is dangerous; however, I sincerely doubt that is the case within Denmark. Hypothetically, if the country had a population of say 20 million and the Danish royals eased up on some of their official engagements, engaged in 15 or so holidays per royal per year, and the populations attitude were different (hence we don't have high expectations)then there may be a bigger demonstration towards their monarchy.

As long as their house is small, the population remains under 5 million, and immigration is tightly controlled the situation may remain stable.

 

[Villemann]

I think you have to live OUTSIDE Denmark to call it the "Happiest place on earth." When it comes to our monarchy, we could have not only the oldest monarchy in the world, but also the best. Yes, we are back to substance! I love my royal family and I want them to carry on, BUT not at any cost. As a subject, I want to be taken seriously by my monarch and her family. I could list a thousand reasons, why it is so tough being a Danish royalist at the moment! I do envy the Dutch!

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Don't fault me for the tagline Happiest Place on Earth.

So what do you propose? That they are stripped of any income hence they have to make it on their own; for example, everytime they support a charity they get paid for it ten grand here five grand there, live and recieve officials at their own private home at their own expense, etc, etc, etc?

 

[sjetajiem]

Not everyone in Holland is happy with the RF!!!
The prince of Oranje had long time the image of "prins pilsje"
It was when his father the late prince Claus showed him the issues of water-management that he started to take interest in the issue.
Lately there was criticism about the amount of holidays the CP pair took.
In a short period of time they went twice to Argentina (Christmas and at the end of January).
There was again crticism about the hudge costs of HM Groene Draeck's maintenance (HM sailingship) apparently paid by the ministery of Defence.
So why envy the Dutch?

 

[lucien]

Not everyone in Holland is happy with the RF!!!
The prince of Oranje had long time the image of "prins pilsje"
It was when his father the late prince Claus showed him the issues of water-management that he started to take interest in the issue.
Lately there was criticism about the amount of holidays the CP pair took.
In a short period of time they went twice to Argentina (Christmas and at the end of January).
There was again crticism about the hudge costs of HM Groene Draeck's maintenance (HM sailingship) apparently paid by the ministery of Defence.
So why envy the Dutch?

Oh my oh my,he had pils?Oh shock!(Pils is Lager,you know,beer)

Oh please,did you ever drink a beer now and then when you were young?

Your points are so in-valid they are invalid,really.You are trying to create what?A mini-hype on how awfull the dutch Monarchy is these days? Sorry,but you have to be aware there are quiet a few very well informed forum members that you will find on your path,and they also can easily put aside each,what,point(?) you tryed to make.Meaning you will have to get/have facts right or otherwise learn more first.

The dutch Monarchy,allthough it is completely O/T on this thread,enjoys such an immensely huge popularity,85%,that a few like you will never be able to hurt it,At all.Freedom of expression is allowed,as long as one has ones facts right.I personally am very allergic to nonsense,it gives me a rash.Proost.

 

[Marengo]

As said, the topic here is not the Dutch monarchy, though we will welcome a good discussion about that one in this thread, which sadly is a less popular topic for debate than the future of the Danish one.

And indeed, every monarchy faces critisism in its own country, not only the Danish one and the Dutch certainly had their share these last years. So no need for envy, and we can keep the ' my monarchy is better than yours' for what it is, though there is this topic in the chichat forum where you can discuss which is your favourite family and which one is not.

--

Now back on topic, a while back we were discussing the position of Princess Elisabeth and Princess Benedikte. I just read elsewhere that Elisabeths brothers still recive a modest allowance from the state. Is this information correct?

 

[norwegianne]

As said, the topic here is not the Dutch monarchy, though we will welcome a good discussion about that one in this thread, which sadly is a less popular topic for debate than the future of the Danish one.

And indeed, every monarchy faces critisism in its own country, not only the Danish one and the Dutch certainly had their share these last years. So no need for envy, and we can keep the ' my monarchy is better than yours' for what it is, though there is this topic in the chichat forum where you can discuss which is your favourite family and which one is not.

--

Now back on topic, a while back we were discussing the position of Princess Elisabeth and Princess Benedikte. I just read elsewhere that Elisabeths brothers still recive a modest allowance from the state. Is this information correct?

Somewhat. Count Ingolf receives 1,4 milion danish kroner in allowance from the state yearly. As far as I can gather from different sources, this is a substitute from the time the constitution was changed in 1953, and Ingolf stopped being the heir presumptive… behind his father, and ended up behind all three of his female cousins in line to the throne.

Count Christian doesn't receive any allowance. I'm not sure how the situation is with Christian and his wife living in the side building at Sorgenfri, ie. rent and things like that.

 

[wiwaxia]

And on a National Importance level!!

No, I disagree! (bearing in mind the particular RF being discussed) - they do not perform any duties of national importance, weddings, baptisms, and other things in that category are not of any national importance. A 3 second appearance snipping a ribbon is not of any national importance....they have no national influence, other than the intangible, which boils down to a figment of peoples imagination. Important, is what happens in parliament.....which is a venue for them once a year, when they reconvene after the summer recess, and, it is apparently so interesting for them that they have been filmed taking 40 winks during the procedure!! No, they are an anachronism in their present state, an entertaining diversion, and to survive, there needs to be a radical change.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

It really depends on, again, the context. Is it of urgent national importance to promote skin cancer and prevention? Is it of urgent national importance to become an honorary member of the Norwegian Sailing Association? Is it of urgent national importance to participate in the Shell Eco Marathon Car Race? Is it of urgent national importance to attend the opening of the new National Museum in Copenhagen?

Essentially, it is all up to the Danes and what they deem "of national importance". What they view and believe is good for their country so be it, and if that means cultural identity and nationalism as well as pride tied in with their royal family and what they promote (see above ) well whatever.

 

[lucien]

No, I disagree! (bearing in mind the particular RF being discussed) - they do not perform any duties of national importance, weddings, baptisms, and other things in that category are not of any national importance. A 3 second appearance snipping a ribbon is not of any national importance....they have no national influence, other than the intangible, which boils down to a figment of peoples imagination. Important, is what happens in parliament.....which is a venue for them once a year, when they reconvene after the summer recess, and, it is apparently so interesting for them that they have been filmed taking 40 winks during the procedure!! No, they are an anachronism in their present state, an entertaining diversion, and to survive, there needs to be a radical change.

A wedding,a baptism etc etc is of National importance as it concerns the Reigning Dynasty,each and every Monarchy has that and each and every Monarchy considers that of National importance.Their very being is of National importance,they "glue" the State together,maintain the National cohesion,a huge unifying factor.So yes ofcourse they bare importance of enormous magnitude on a national scale.What lone individuals think or try to make others believe is of no consequence and does not make the general view by a far cry,so,this is just for facts sake.

To survive the very last thing to do is to "radically change"as you put it.Most,but one,European Monarchies is so modern already,there isn't anything left to change.

Maybe there could be a ban from Aquavit,so some subjects do not get ideas above their station....

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Perhaps you should define the true meaning of national and importance, Lucien. I understand that baptisms, weddings, and so forth are of importance to the immediate, but what sort of importance does it have or rather do for Helga Christiansen or Soren Jensen hence everyday Danes? The previous mentioned two only keep traditions alive, but it really doesn't benefit the people except nationalism and pride knowing that the thousand year tradition continues, but what else does it do for the people and the country in the global competitive market? Think about it for a minute...

When I think of national importance I think of advocating skin cancer prevention, health care, or creating jobs for the people... essentially things that would benefit all not the some.

Most,but one,European Monarchies is so modern already,there isn't anything left to change.

Are you really sure about that? Most would note, monarchy and modern, being contradictory to each other hence archaic traditions and modernism.

 

[lucien]

Perhaps you should define the true meaning of national and importance, Lucien. I understand that baptisms, weddings, and so forth are of importance to the immediate, but what sort of importance does it have or rather do for Helga Christiansen or Soren Jensen hence everyday Danes? Think about for a minute...

When I think of national importance I think of advocating skin cancer prevention, health care, or promoting goods for my country... essentially things that would benefit all not the some.

Oh but ofcourse!!There is that,Royals are/can be their respective countries best ambassadors in so many fields,even more so as for one reason or another doors always open to them,as we always experience here in my country.I think it is one of their main tasks.

So yes promoting goods/ideas/programs and what not that already work in their country is of immense importance.Being active,and I mean active,in social/healthcare fields is of enormous importance too,because maybe it brings your Helga and Soren to do something worthwhile in that field too thus inspiring others thus generating more revenue etc etc for a start.

Or,won't mention them personally as we discuss the great Danes here,a Princess here is an immensely strong advocate in the field of illiteracy,another in micro-credit both national and international,the very huge amount of goodwill alone triggers revenue for the country,selling ideas,goods,knowledge and what not.A Prince is a globally accepted expert in the field of water-management,hugely important,and gaining importance with the climate change on our doorstep.

Just visiting one catwalk after another,or rarely show face in connection with huge issues of some real deep content,real content,instead of sailing most of the time,doesn't really leave a lasting worthwhile impression.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Oh but ofcourse!! There is that,Royals are/can be their respective countries best ambassadors in so many fields,even more so as for one reason or another doors always open to them,as we always experience here in my country.I think it is one of their main tasks.

Which is a fine line they have to walk or rather, taking a different direction to your line, "catwalk". Being too political is a no-no yet frivolous patronages are also a no-no. By showing support for a patronage is all well and good; however, just lending your name to a cause doesn't necessarily mean anything. Usually people forget about months later until they show up the next year. Does lending ones support be considered of national importance, Lucien, when they themselves are not really doing anything physically? Some would say no. While others would have to think about for a while.

And by the way, I'm very proud of you that you are sticking the correct royal house here, Lucien... so thank you. Here's a nice virtual pat on the back for you.

 

[acdc1]

I don't understand. If you don't want to pay for the monarchy, what is the point of wanting one at all?

 

[agnessa]

Although I'm interested in some royal families I'm absolutely sure that in the future almost all royal house'is will disapperare or loose their importance. We can't denie that nowadays all monarchies will need media beside them and only this is real resource what helps them to maintain their popularity. Cause people wants to see these "mystical" and "blued-booded" people who lives in castle and who descend from great house. I know that nowadays all CP or Princesses will marry with commoners but for me it's abolish very much from royalty and I think that there are many people who don't want to pay their mony for royal family. For me personally it's normal attitude cause in kingdoms there are no absolute monarchy anymore and there are no absolute monarchs. Conclusion I want to say that people need some glamour and beautiful young royal couples but also they understand that supporting royal familyes is very expensive and there are many doubting in their being need.

 

[madeleine victoria]

We should really ask the Danes here because I for one is not a Dane and two if you ask me I really don't find the crown couple that interesting maybe Queen Margrethe but the crown couple? I'm not a big fan of them. So I really think the answer to that question lies within the Danes' outlook. Their expectations should be valued so as much as I would like to answer this question I doubt that my answer will be worth it.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

That may be true, MV. However, as I noted in the beginning of this entire topic: This discourse is open to all members Danes and non-Danes alike; therefore, all opinions are welcome.

 

[madeleine victoria]

That may be true, MV. However, as I noted in the beginning of this entire topic: This discourse is open to all members Danes and non-Danes alike; therefore, all opinions are welcome.

yup, that's true what I mean is my opinion is entirely based on pictures or articles just like most of the posters here. Living in Denmark and seeing your RF in person can be one of the strongest factor in saying that your RF is worth it. Nevertheless, I think it differs from one country to another. As a matter of fact I think the DRF has one of the most stable position unlike in other countries wherein protests are visible (though I personally think Mary outshines her husband).

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

We seem to be lacking in communcation here, MV. Nevermind.

The issue is Is the monarchy worth it? Nationalism or is a national waste in this day and age hence the 21st century? Wnat is modernization to a monarchy if they continue with archaic traditions and can the two co-exsist or is it a false reality fueled by nationalism and cultural identity? By the way I want to make something very clear to eveyone here: The discourse is not a question of whether or not you like or dislike a particular member of the DRF on a personal level it is about the system, Monarchy, on a whole not exclusive to the DRF (but since this topic is in this sub-forum, it is.)

 

[sjetajiem]

I think you have to live OUTSIDE Denmark to call it the "Happiest place on earth." When it comes to our monarchy, we could have not only the oldest monarchy in the world, but also the best. Yes, we are back to substance! I love my royal family and I want them to carry on, BUT not at any cost. As a subject, I want to be taken seriously by my monarch and her family. I could list a thousand reasons, why it is so tough being a Danish royalist at the moment! I do envy the Dutch!

It is clear, I am not a monarchist but I can understand your point.
One suggestion: it would be great if you would donate the proceeds of your book to a good cause!!!

 

[dm2]

I don't follow the Danish royals very much, but I would like to know- for those members that object to Villeman earning money from writing about the Danish royals - do you expect the money from the book about Crownprince Frederik to go to the authors of the book or one of the crownprince's charities? This question may have already beeen answered, I have not read this entire thread.

 

[sjetajiem]

It would be great to give it to charity, but I don't expect it!!!

 

[Villemann]

Royal books and money

I don't follow the Danish royals very much, but I would like to know- for those members that object to Villeman earning money from writing about the Danish royals - do you expect the money from the book about Crownprince Frederik to go to the authors of the book or one of the crownprince's charities? This question may have already beeen answered, I have not read this entire thread.

Actually, the issue of sharing whatever profit I might make on my book was something I thought long and hard about. I was considering donating some of the proceeds to Mary's foundation or perhaps Frederik's, but when I looked back at other royal authors and could not find any information in their books suggesting ,they had given any of their profits to charity, I abandoned that idea. In the end, I did give some to charity - I supported a very worthwhile cause, but I consider that a private matter. However, the question, I think should be asked is this: When the royals do talk to authors and these authors sell lots of books, shouldn't the royals insist that some of the proceeds go to charities. Isn't that also a way, the royals can "do good?" Don't get me wrong: I think it is okay to make money writing books. It is a lot of hard work, but CP Frederik could have made a statement by making sure, that his charities also benefitted from the new book about him.

 

[marmi]

Quote:
I'm all for a Monarchy with substance,and thank goodness,the one I live in is about that instead of catwalk cats,what about yours dear?

Don't you believe that is an extremely bizarre question to ask an American? Let me answer for you: Why yes, yes it is.

True, but it lightened the thread up a bit - very much needed at times so thank you for that.

It is a lot of hard work, but CP Frederik could have made a statement by making sure, that his charities also benefitted from the new book about him.

I have no idea about this, but: Do we know for a fact that he didn't?

I think it differs from one country to another.

As do I, though never having been to any of them, I hardly feel I can say any more.

(though I personally think Mary outshines her husband).

I agree, and I have read it in other places on this forum too. I think that that will make things interesting when Frederik is King and she is Queen Consort


And finally, with regards to the relative importance of royal weddings, christenings etc - I think that they are important, that in todays media age it would be surprising for them not to be broadcast on TV, but thats just my two cents

 

[Polly]

And finally, with regards to the relative importance of royal weddings, christenings etc - I think that they are important, that in todays media age it would be surprising for them not to be broadcast on TV, but thats just my two cents

And it's mine, too. These occasions are part of the normal social fabric for those of us living in constitutional monarchies.