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  #101  
Old 05-14-2008, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
I entirely agree with you. It is the lack of purpose, that gets me too. Mary and Frede are cute and photogenic, but what was the purpose of the visit? Too see Mary in as many woolen hats as possible? To promote Danish technology or design in Iceland? The lack of purpose is the overall problem with the Danish royals today, especially with CP Frederik.He is an delightful fella, but completely lost! I believe , unless the Danish royals - and royals all over Europe for that matter - come up with something else, their days are numbered. They need to reform to stay alive and visits like the one to Iceland ,where it appears to be all about the next photo-op, does not help a monarchy survive. It merely turns the royals into celebrities like Paris Hilton or whatever they are called.
As other have mentioned allready, the purpose of this vist was the same as the purpose of all the visit of the other royals who have visited Island.

Maybe the lack of the purpose of the danish media towards the royals is the problem? Maybe even more than the guilt of the royals?

I've missed the attention Frederik should get when ever he is doing something serious, except his wife is with him. Whos responsability is this?

For example where is the endless stream of pictures regarding CP Marys visit in Geneva? Is this not serious enough compared with the visit of the couple in Island?

Marys programm yesterday, where are the pictures and the reports?

Welcome by the High Commissioner for Refugees, Mr António Guterres, UNHCR staff and children of Danish staff.

Meeting with the High Commissioner.

Working lunch hosted by the High Commissioner (at UNHCR Headquarters).

Informal briefings/discussions with Department of International Protection Services, Division of Operational Services (emergency room demonstration), and Regional Bureau for Africa.

Farewell meeting with the High Commissioner in foyer of UNHCR.

Departure from UNHCR Headquarters.

Evening Dinner hosted by Ambassador Marie-Louise Overvad.



Todays programm, again where are the pictures and the reports?


Visit to the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Museum.

Guided tour of the Museum.

Departure from the Red Cross and Red Crescent Museum. Drive to the World Health Organization (WHO).

Welcome by the Director-General, Dr Margaret Chan, and the Director of the Regional Office for Europe, Dr. Marc Danzon.

Working lunch hosted by the Director-General (at WHO Headquarters).

Presentation of Danish nationals working at WHO Headquarters.
Photo opportunity.

Visit to the Strategic Health Operations Centre (SHOC).

Briefing on child health and immunization.

Briefing on Chronic Diseases and Health Promotion, Nutrition for Health and Development and Mental Health.

Departure from WHO. Drive to the United Nations Headquarters in Geneva, Palais des Nations.

Welcome by the Director-General of the United Nations Office at Geneva, Mr Sergei Ordzhonikidze. Door 4.

Meeting with the Director-General.

Guided tour of the United Nations Office at Geneva, Palais des Nations.

Departure from the United Nations Office at Geneva.

Btw. how many events would the BRF count for this visit?
And btw. today is the fourth wedding anniversary of the danish CP couple.

This debate reminds me, there was an article in Berlingske Tidende from Emilia Van Hauen
"Fra Guds nåde til folkets nåde" from the 26. marts 2006
And the last part of the article was this:

"They are also important icons/role models for a modern identity, into which we can reflect ourselves and more, if especially Frederik and Mary not only act by appearing at different events, but also do express opinions/positions about modern life. Right now our RF has what is needed. Will they continue to have that? Possibly. Perhaps the issue in the future won't be whether we want a RF. With the perspective to not having any private life, to live up to inhuman demands about perfection and a attraktive personality and demonstarte the ability to balance at a knives edge between interestiong opinions and relevant acts, the question is rather: Do the DRF wants us?
"
Emilia van Hauen is a sociologist specialized in humans modern lifestyles, identity and chalenges HD(A), Author, lecturer, journalist, feature writer and often used as commentator/expert on Royal events.

INDALO.DK

So obviously different people in Denmark have different opinions.
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  #102  
Old 05-14-2008, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by melmel View Post
While it is always nice to see pictures of the royals and hear about their lives, if I was Danish, I am not sure that I would want my tax dollars to support such an institution. While tax dollars probably goes to the upkeep of the homes and staff, seeing Mary dressed in Gucci, Prada etc would make me a little upset.
Well, if memory serves me correctly, the Danish Royal family have considerable assets of their own, so I would imagine that even if they weren't currently monarchs, and royalty, and weren't receiving money from the state, I would be willing to bet that she could still afford to dress this way.

That being said, it would also do everyone well to remember that she is paid a "salary" for her "work" just as everyone else is, and what she chooses to spend that salary on is her business, and not ours.

Furthermore, it's likely that alot of her clothes are given to her, as a designer would very likely be thrilled with the free publicity that her wearing their clothes would generate.
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  #103  
Old 05-14-2008, 04:34 PM
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I think it's patently obvious that the BRF don't calculate every step of an engagement as a seperate entity, as their homepage proves, from today for example:

Royal diary search results=

The official input from the Danish royals is questionable, it is limited, very limited, contra the cost to the Danish tax payer; there are many expenses over and above the apanage they receive annually, that are regulated by various ministries, and are therefore not visible on the annual accounts on their website, a hidden agenda you might say!
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  #104  
Old 05-14-2008, 05:05 PM
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The official input from the Danish royals is questionable, it is limited, very limited, contra the cost to the Danish tax payer
Could I possibly get a link to the figures that you are using to come to this conclusion. It would be interesting to see what the Danish Royals bring to the country Vs what they cost. Thank you

Quote:
there are many expenses over and above the apanage they receive annually, that are regulated by various ministries, and are therefore not visible on the annual accounts on their website, a hidden agenda you might say!
Also links to the source for the information on the other incomes, I persume that they receive money from The Foreign Office for offical state visits to other countries but what are the others. Thank you
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  #105  
Old 05-14-2008, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
Could I possibly get a link to the figures that you are using to come to this conclusion. It would be interesting to see what the Danish Royals bring to the country Vs what they cost. Thank you


Also links to the source for the information on the other incomes, I persume that they receive money from The Foreign Office for offical state visits to other countries but what are the others. Thank you


The list of public engagements for the DRF can be found on their website, and the amount of public money received for these duties can be calculated accordingly, that is if you are interested! IMVHO, the input is minimal compared to the expenditure!

http://download.tdconline.dk/pub/kongehuset/aarsrapport/Kongehuset_2007.pdf
The Annual Report from the DRF
http://www.ses.dk/
Palaces and Properties Agency
http://forsvaret.dk/sok/
The Danish Navy
http://forsvaret.dk/ftk
The Danish Airforce

’’Also links to the source for the information on the other incomes’’ - I didn’t mention that they had other incomes, you did, however, I do hope you find the links useful.
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  #106  
Old 05-14-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
a hidden agenda you might say!
Prove there is a "hidden agenda" on the part of the royal family or perhaps stick to what is known, and not what you think you know or would attempt to portray.
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  #107  
Old 05-14-2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
I do hope you find the links useful.
Yes thank you very much but none of them tell me how much extra the cost is of the Royal Family - the other 'expense' that you are talking about, could you list those. Although I don't think the Palaces and Properties belong to the Royal Family but to Denmark itself.
Quote:
that is if you are interested! IMVHO, the input is minimal compared to the expenditure!
I said I was interested when I asked for the links, I don't understand why you are being so defensive. This is a discussion forum, chances are if you post something people are going to want to discuss it. You said the oficial input was limited to the cost so I presumed, wrongly as it turned out, that you had based it on some oficial source and not you own opinion.

Quote:
The list of public engagements for the DRF can be found on their website, and the amount of public money received for these duties can be calculated accordingly,
So how much do they receive for each official event - I don't speak Danish so I can't see where it says the amount the The CP Couple have left after their staff and expenses are paid so I am unable to work out how much they have left for themselves and so I can't calculate how much the are paid for each event. Also when you talk out their input are you considering at all the outcome of these duties have on the people involved and the Danish in general - for instance last year the couple and their son posed for a special postage stamp to be sold in Denmark, on April 1st they made a visit to the Danish Mental Health Foundation to present 2.286.000 kroner that was raised by the stamp. That had a big impact for the Danish Mental Health Foundation and the people they help. Or perhaps the The Brain Injury Association who said in January in an interview TV2 that before Mary became patron the association was in crisis, due to lack of funds. I think sometimes it may perhaps be easy to put a figure on the cost of a Royal, but not so easy to put one on the benefits, there are lots of things that must be counted when doing that.
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  #108  
Old 05-14-2008, 06:34 PM
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Right, that's quite enough with the personal attacks, snide comments, and off topic conversation.

If you are unable to carry on a civil conversation, and allow others their opinions, STAY AWAY FROM THIS THREAD.

Anything considered inappropriate from here on out in this thread will be deleted without discussion or forewarning.

AND FINALLY

DO NOT ALLOW POSTERS WHO ARE ATTEMPTING TO NEEDLE YOU DO SO!
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  #109  
Old 05-14-2008, 09:00 PM
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Someone has been doing her homework! Way to go, Amelia!

How much "waste" can there be in championing very worthy causes? I would think whatever the cost to keep important charities on the front burner and help them get funding would be money well spent.

Cat
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  #110  
Old 05-15-2008, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
Yes thank you very much but none of them tell me how much extra the cost is of the Royal Family - the other 'expense' that you are talking about, could you list those. Although I don't think the Palaces and Properties belong to the Royal Family but to Denmark itself.

I said I was interested when I asked for the links, I don't understand why you are being so defensive. This is a discussion forum, chances are if you post something people are going to want to discuss it. You said the oficial input was limited to the cost so I presumed, wrongly as it turned out, that you had based it on some oficial source and not you own opinion.


So how much do they receive for each official event - I don't speak Danish so I can't see where it says the amount the The CP Couple have left after their staff and expenses are paid so I am unable to work out how much they have left for themselves and so I can't calculate how much the are paid for each event. Also when you talk out their input are you considering at all the outcome of these duties have on the people involved and the Danish in general - for instance last year the couple and their son posed for a special postage stamp to be sold in Denmark, on April 1st they made a visit to the Danish Mental Health Foundation to present 2.286.000 kroner that was raised by the stamp. That had a big impact for the Danish Mental Health Foundation and the people they help. Or perhaps the The Brain Injury Association who said in January in an interview TV2 that before Mary became patron the association was in crisis, due to lack of funds. I think sometimes it may perhaps be easy to put a figure on the cost of a Royal, but not so easy to put one on the benefits, there are lots of things that must be counted when doing that.


Thanks for your reply!
Availing themselves of services funded by the examples in the links, is an area which is unspecified in the Annual Report, these too are supported through the treasury, which exists due to public conscription, which therefore makes the disbursement questionable in relation to their curriculum. In conclusion all the links provided represent officialdom, and are not ’my opinion’, which incidentally I am entitled to, if that was the case.
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  #111  
Old 05-15-2008, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binz View Post
As other have mentioned allready, the purpose of this vist was the same as the purpose of all the visit of the other royals who have visited Island.

Maybe the lack of the purpose of the danish media towards the royals is the problem? Maybe even more than the guilt of the royals?

I've missed the attention Frederik should get when ever he is doing something serious, except his wife is with him. Whos responsability is this?

For example where is the endless stream of pictures regarding CP Marys visit in Geneva? Is this not serious enough compared with the visit of the couple in Island?

Marys programm yesterday, where are the pictures and the reports?

Welcome by the High Commissioner for Refugees, Mr António Guterres, UNHCR staff and children of Danish staff.

Meeting with the High Commissioner.

Working lunch hosted by the High Commissioner (at UNHCR Headquarters).

Informal briefings/discussions with Department of International Protection Services, Division of Operational Services (emergency room demonstration), and Regional Bureau for Africa.

Farewell meeting with the High Commissioner in foyer of UNHCR.

Departure from UNHCR Headquarters.

Evening Dinner hosted by Ambassador Marie-Louise Overvad.



Todays programm, again where are the pictures and the reports?


Visit to the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Museum.

Guided tour of the Museum.

Departure from the Red Cross and Red Crescent Museum. Drive to the World Health Organization (WHO).

Welcome by the Director-General, Dr Margaret Chan, and the Director of the Regional Office for Europe, Dr. Marc Danzon.

Working lunch hosted by the Director-General (at WHO Headquarters).

Presentation of Danish nationals working at WHO Headquarters.
Photo opportunity.

Visit to the Strategic Health Operations Centre (SHOC).

Briefing on child health and immunization.

Briefing on Chronic Diseases and Health Promotion, Nutrition for Health and Development and Mental Health.

Departure from WHO. Drive to the United Nations Headquarters in Geneva, Palais des Nations.

Welcome by the Director-General of the United Nations Office at Geneva, Mr Sergei Ordzhonikidze. Door 4.

Meeting with the Director-General.

Guided tour of the United Nations Office at Geneva, Palais des Nations.

Departure from the United Nations Office at Geneva.

Btw. how many events would the BRF count for this visit?
And btw. today is the fourth wedding anniversary of the danish CP couple.

This debate reminds me, there was an article in Berlingske Tidende from Emilia Van Hauen
"Fra Guds nåde til folkets nåde" from the 26. marts 2006
And the last part of the article was this:

"They are also important icons/role models for a modern identity, into which we can reflect ourselves and more, if especially Frederik and Mary not only act by appearing at different events, but also do express opinions/positions about modern life. Right now our RF has what is needed. Will they continue to have that? Possibly. Perhaps the issue in the future won't be whether we want a RF. With the perspective to not having any private life, to live up to inhuman demands about perfection and a attraktive personality and demonstarte the ability to balance at a knives edge between interestiong opinions and relevant acts, the question is rather: Do the DRF wants us?
"
Emilia van Hauen is a sociologist specialized in humans modern lifestyles, identity and chalenges HD(A), Author, lecturer, journalist, feature writer and often used as commentator/expert on Royal events.

INDALO.DK

So obviously different people in Denmark have different opinions.
yes, why is it we discuss mary's latest Prada bag and not her work? perhaps becaus ethe way mary carries out these official engagements is by the book, but rather irrelevant to modern society. A photo-op i sno longer enough to put an issue on the top op today's agenda - a fact the royals have to adapt to.
Miss Hauens comments are really old news. The idea of the royals not wanting us was aired years ago by Danish royal author Annelise Bidstrup. If they don't want the job, let them go! We have successions as long as the credits to Star Wars, so we can easily do without one or two of them! In some European monarchies, you will actually find the quality of the royal improves as you go down the list of succession!

The royal money trail is difficult to follow - even if you look at the accounts, that Amalienborg publishes. Lets remember, that these account only cover the Civil List NOT the royals' private fortunes- if indeed they have any. It is impossible to calculate the value of the royals in hard currency . A world famous branding guru, Simon Anholt, said in May 207, that for every Danish krone we spend on the royals, we get 1000 Danish kroner back! How do you check that out? You can't.
As for Mary's designer dresses and bags. She NEVER pays full price for any of her stuff, so don't worry, she is not going to bankrupt the Danish monarchy - at least not financially!
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  #112  
Old 05-15-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
A world famous branding guru, Simon Anholt, said in May 207, that for every Danish krone we spend on the royals, we get 1000 Danish kroner back! How do you check that out? You can't
Well he must of used figures from somewhere to come to this conclusion. He has to be able to back up his findings with numbers, world famous or not I doubt that the press would allow such a definite figure be said without some sort of proof from him.
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  #113  
Old 05-15-2008, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
yes, why is it we discuss mary's latest Prada bag and not her work?
Same reason the media were forever on about the state of the Wales marriage and Diana's clothes and hairstyles rather than on Charles's charities. Scandal and fluff and pretty pictures sell. It had nothing to do with Charles's charities being out of date or irrelevant, as the media folk admitted when asked about it. It's just that most people prefer to be entertained rather than informed.
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  #114  
Old 05-15-2008, 09:18 AM
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Mary's designer bags or Diana's handshake

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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Same reason the media were forever on about the state of the Wales marriage and Diana's clothes and hairstyles rather than on Charles's charities. Scandal and fluff and pretty pictures sell. It had nothing to do with Charles's charities being out of date or irrelevant, as the media folk admitted when asked about it. It's just that most people prefer to be entertained rather than informed.
I - respectfully - disagree. It is so easy to always blame the media, but history has given us examples of royals, who managed to put their causes in the spotlight instead of their designer handbags! Who can forget Diana, Princess of Wales, when she shook that AIDS patients hand in 1987?
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  #115  
Old 05-15-2008, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
As for Mary's designer dresses and bags. She NEVER pays full price for any of her stuff, so don't worry, she is not going to bankrupt the Danish monarchy - at least not financially!
You are implying Mary is going to bankrupt the Danish Monarchy? Wow.
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  #116  
Old 05-15-2008, 02:43 PM
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Mary and the monarchy

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Originally Posted by Emmily View Post
You are implying Mary is going to bankrupt the Danish Monarchy? Wow.
No implying here. I am saying, unless CP Mary gets her act together and her husband sorted out, her son will never be king of Denmark. That is my personal opinion, of course.
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  #117  
Old 05-15-2008, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
yes, why is it we discuss mary's latest Prada bag and not her work? perhaps becaus ethe way mary carries out these official engagements is by the book, but rather irrelevant to modern society. A photo-op i sno longer enough to put an issue on the top op today's agenda - a fact the royals have to adapt to.

Miss Hauens comments are really old news. The idea of the royals not wanting us was aired years ago by Danish royal author Annelise Bidstrup. If they don't want the job, let them go! We have successions as long as the credits to Star Wars, so we can easily do without one or two of them! In some European monarchies, you will actually find the quality of the royal improves as you go down the list of succession!

The irrelevance to modern society? Please, please inform us what could be relevant! Please nothing about freebies and nothing about succession, this has nothing to do with RELEVANZ. Yes, maybe it should be changed, though it has nothing do to with the relevanz that something the royals do could have. What is it they could do without beeing ripped to pieces by exactly the same media that are asking for more relevanz?

Nice try to bring Diana along with the picture of her holding the hand of an aids patient. What is the difference to a photo op of CP Mary speaking, laughing with a dissabled person? Please explain the difference and no please don't tell us that Mary tries to hard. Why are you so sure that Diana was so sincere and Mary isn't? What is the proof? Maybe you could have mentioned in your book Marys involvment with her patronages that tackle some quite serious problems of people suffering with psychic problems or who are dissabled and so on (the list of her patronage is easily available, it doesn't matter if people think it's nothing else than a case for photo ops, if yes what is the difference between Mary and for example Princess Alexandra or Princess Diana?) instead of focusing on a alledgedly teary outburst of Mary because Frederik danced with an old flame?

I know that Miss Hauens comments are really old news. Whats with your book that you promote at this board? Isn't it mostly a collection of rumours and gossip sometimes half a century old? Partly backed up by interviews that are nearly as old as this gossips and rumours?

For example Frederiks "terrible" childhood. How old are this reports 30 - 35 years? Yes he himself has stated that his childhood wasn't a bed of roses, how old was he when he did so? My childhood wasn't a bed of roses too. Sometimes I've criticised my parents too, quite harshly, bid deal! Yes I'm still somewhat suffering. Though I'm still able to have a successful life and no I don't hate my parents and no my family isn't disfunctional, it's simple part of a non perfect life. Show me someone perfect and I show you a complete hypocrite. So, what does it say about Frederik and the royal family? A more or less honest outburst, exactly what the media asking for. And what are the media doing with something like this? Dekades later?

Frederiks many friends who told you something! Hm, how many are many? What kind of friends are this and more important; how old are this informations? And why have "they" given this informations to you? Frederik should have married Katja Storkholm? If he would have done so, maybe he would also have to face a divorce, like his younger brother who was married with the perfect princess for Denmark? Katja is history and nothing else, it doesn't have any purpose to bring her up. Sadly this isn't the only thing that should have been left in the past, unmentioned.

Ah ja and at the end of the day everything is Marys fault! If someone is searching of a quilty one, I think the blame have to be laid down in front of Margrethe who wasn't/isn't able to provide Denmark with a suitable heir, or has to be laid down in front of Frederik who wasn't/isn't able to get his act together, have given in and thrown everything away. Of course if Frederik would have done so, there wouldn't have been a divorce between Joachim and Alexandra, at least thats my opinion. How would the Dane have reactede to something like this? The opinion of quite a few Danes willed to express them at message boards isn't very flattering toward Joachim. Again different people have different opinions. Which part is the majority?

At least, I'm very well aware of the the fact that the danish royals aren't perfect. Nonetheless nothing I read in this thread can convince me that there is anything really usefull coming out of a certain book or this discussion.
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  #118  
Old 05-15-2008, 03:06 PM
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Knock of the snark, jabs, and overall intolerant tone in some of these recent posts. Is it really that hard to have a mature civil discourse between to opposing sides?!!

I'll answer for some of you: No. No, it is not.

If you cannot handle this type of this discourse then do not post in this topic. It is that simple.
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  #119  
Old 05-15-2008, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
I - respectfully - disagree. It is so easy to always blame the media, but history has given us examples of royals, who managed to put their causes in the spotlight instead of their designer handbags! Who can forget Diana, Princess of Wales, when she shook that AIDS patients hand in 1987?
Actually, you'd be surprised how many. She herself, according to Patrick Jephson's book and other sources, was upset when she was trying to publicise landmine issues and the media only wanted to talk about her latest boyfriend. It was sort of ironic, given how she'd previously used her high media profile to wear a spectacular dress to some event or other and thereby ensure that a major speech of Charles's about an important social issue was comprehensively ignored by the media.

Given the choice of highlighting some worthy cause or fanning the flames of a real or manufactured scandal, it seems that significant elements of the press will do the latter in a heartbeat. Which is probably why Mary's charity activities get less column inches than her designer frocks or Fred's sailing. And if she stopped wearing designer frocks, no doubt those same elements of the media would be far more interested in that than in the causes she was championing.
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  #120  
Old 05-15-2008, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
No implying here. I am saying, unless CP Mary gets her act together and her husband sorted out, her son will never be king of Denmark. That is my personal opinion, of course.
Of cause you are intitled to have an opinion like that. But I do think you are seeing ghosts where there is non. In my opinion it will take a lot more to put an end to the danish monarcy then Mary wearing desinger-cloth. A nation just dosn't throw 1000 years of history aside because of a handbag

And when it comes to Frederik, I can't find any reason why he should be sorted out in any way - not by him self - and certainly not by his wife. In my opinion this is not the business of a wife - regardless if one is marryed to a crownprince or not.
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