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  #21  
Old 08-01-2019, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Well, I won't comment on that personally.

The whole purpose of this visit is politics and there will be a lot of politics in the translations, summaries and background info I will end up posting in this thread. Certainly in regards to the overall political lines.
All that will be conveyed as unbiased as possible by me and I will keep my personal political opinion to myself while the visit lasts. I have no wish to see this thread closed. This visit is too interesting in every possible way. ... [snipped]
Thanks for your brilliantly diplomatic answer!
I am looking forward to seeing Queen Margrethe's grand entrance for the state gala and blue-and-red attired hussars.
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  #22  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:12 PM
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Interesting. I'll keep my opinions on Trump to myself during this visit But all I can say, is, rather them than me!
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:05 PM
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Additional political background info.

Every single political commentator I have heard and read agree that this visit is not about Denmark. Denmark is at best secondary.
It's about Greenland and the Arctic.

And indirectly China. Greenland has autonomy, except for law enforcement, the courts, foreign policy and defense - that is still under Danish control.
However, there is a considerable movement in Greenland, not least among the political and opinion elite there, for independence. Preferably still with the Danish monarch as head of state, but otherwise independent.
The problem is of course that Greenland has a population of around 60.000 of which around 10 % are Danes, primarily specialists in various fields. (Plus 6-10.000 Greenlanders in DK.)
That is the population of a medium sized Danish municipality and as such way below the critical mass of running a fully independent country. There are simply too few to fill out all the needed functions for a country to work. They will have to import foreign specialists. And Greenland isn't wealthy enough to do that.
In comes China.
China has offered to pay for an extension of the Greenlandic infrastructure. Has offered to pay for drilling and probing for resources, mainly oil and gold. That is something Greenlandic politicians very much hope will form the economic basis for independence. I.e. in the hope that Greenland will become a kind of Arctic Kuwait.
There is already a Chinese presence there in jobs that the Greenlanders are not that keen to take themselves. I.e. in the fishing industry and mines on the isolated east coast of Greenland.
It is obvious that China does not invest in Greenland without a reason.
That is blatantly obvious in Copenhagen and Washington as well.

In case of a Greenlandic independence, which DK will not and cannot prevent if they really want to, the Greenlanders may soon realize that they have exchanged (out of sheer necessity) one "colonial power" for another. Despite being warned repeatedly.
By having economic control over Greenland, China will also have physical and political control over the country. And as such also control over parts of the arctic shipping lane going through Canadian waters. And should China be "invited" by a Greenlandic government to set up a Chinese base in Greenland to help "protect" Greenlandic territory and fishing the situation becomes even more interesting. Also for Russia. Threatening the alternative shipping lane north of Siberia. It become even more interesting should a Greenlandic government decide to cancel the agreement of having as US base there.

That base, the Thule Base, has always been critical as an early warning post in the defense of North America. It is even more critical now that the ice is retreating as a consequence of the climate (at least until the Gulf Stream stops) changing.
There is no way in this world USA, no matter who sits in the White House, will tolerate a Chinese dominance over Greenland, let alone that China has a significant presence there. Greenland must remain under Western control - preferably through Denmark.
That the Greenlanders will have a say in this matter is naive.
If USA don't go in, China will. If China won't another country will go in.

That is the hard political facts and the Greenlanders have been warned.
Should the Greenlanders opt for independence there is no public will in Denmark to assist them more than absolutely necessary. They are on their own!

The head of the Greenland Parliament, Kim Kielsen, will also be invited to both the gala dinner (they always are) and to meet the US President.
https://politiken.dk/udland/art73176...6lles-historie
He looks forward to meeting the President. But he can at best expect a few polite words, the fate of Greenland is not decided in its capital Nuuk.
And despite the fact that USA has requested setting up a diplomatic presence in Greenland. Obviously to influence the Greenlandic politicians.

The climate is politically fashionable here in DK these days. In fact the new government here was elected on doing something for the climate.
The Danish PM has today announced that this issue won't even come up in the discussions with the US President. Which is somewhat ironic, since it's the climate that is part of the reason why things are changing politically in the Arctic these years.

There is a considerable huffing and puffing among a number of Danish politicians who urge the government to bring a number of matters to the attention of President Trump. But that's mainly for domestic political consumption. They know it, the political commentators know it, most of the Danish public know it - and the Americans don't care.

And for those of you who have managed to stay awake so far, I will end this post with these three delightful photos. You have probably seen them before, but here in better quality:
https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso...inton-dk-3.jpg
https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso.../23036623-.jpg
https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso...iockbh2009.jpg
  #24  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:59 PM
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It sounds as if this state visit is rather 'forced' on Denmark. Of course, after it was made known that the president of the US wanted to bring a state visit on certain dates an invitation was issued, but the fact that it's short and very inconveniently planned for the Danish royal family suggests that it wasn't something the Danish came up with nor a truly joined effort.
  #25  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:37 PM
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I am looking forward to following this state visit and I'm sure Denmark will be the perfect host to the US entourage. Always love seeing Queen "Daisy" Margrethe dressed to the nines.

I do have one big hope out of everything that will happen with this state visit. I sincerely hope President Trump doesn't lay eyes on what seems to be a trend these days with ugly, brown shoes and rubber galoshes. Perhaps we should email Melania and warn her about those so she can get Donald some blinders.
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  #26  
Old 08-02-2019, 03:50 AM
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Just as much as I love following an official event, the background for such an event and the work behind the scenes is just as interesting, if not more, than the actual event itself.

It is emerging that this visit was far from being such a big surprise. The specific timing may have been at a short notice but not this state visit. On the contrary.

Okay, USA is a vital ally for DK, so various governments are always trying to cultivate good relations to whatever president is sitting in the White House.
That also applies to the previous DK government.
President Trump took office on 20. January 2017. On the 30. March that year the then DK Prime Minister, Lars Løkke, met with President Trump in the White House as one of the first government leaders to do so. Something the DK Foreign Ministry, according to a source was very proud of. On top of that the personal meeting went well. (So did meetings with President Obama with the same PM BTW. Lars Løkke is very good at person to person relations, when he wants to. While being utterly ruthless as a politician when it suits him.) During that meeting an ever standing invitation to the US President to visit DK was extended.

Denmark has for many years now been a hawk among the US allies in Europe. What Denmark is saying matters in itself very little, but it being said out loud is noticed in Washington. Especially in regards to Iran and Russia. Not least when DK, after a foiled assassination plot was attempted in 2018 by an Iranian intelligence branch against Iranian exiles in DK, led to DK persuading EU to put that intelligence branch on the terror-list.
(I remember that clearly. Copenhagen and half the country was in shut-down for 24 hours and the political outrage was genuine across the political spectrum.)
That was something the Foreign Office in USA noticed. And according to a source it was easy for DK to set up meetings with US officials afterwards and the phone was answered when DK called.
Also when Russia detained a number of Ukrainian sailors. (The article says Russian sailors, but they must mean Ukrainian.) DK called for EU to impose further sanctions against Russia. - Something that delighted President Trump's Security Advisor, John Bolton.
That led to a meeting between John Bolton and the then DK Foreign Minister, where talks about expanding the Thule Base in Greenland was initiated.
And political commentators have all (I haven't noticed anyone who didn't) pointed to this being the main purpose of this visit.

There is as yet no official schedule for what will happen politically during this visit, but the new PM, Mette Frederiksen, has stated that topics for discussion will be international security issues, the Arctic and promoting trade and investments. (USA is the second largest market for DK trade.) - That is very much in line with the interests of the previous DK government and in general line with the overall Danish interests, regardless of the government.

So to sum up: This state visit is the culmination of a long standing Danish policy of being on as good footing as possible with the US President at any time.
The former DK PM, Lars Løkke (Liberal), while at times being openly critical, even angry, of President Trump did nevertheless manage to foster a good relationship with him.
His predecessor, Helle Thorning (Social Democrat), cultivated a good personal relationship with President Obama. (Remember the selfies anyone?)
Her predecessor, Anders Fogh (Liberal), developed a personal friendship with President Bush.
And his predecessor, Poul Nyrup (Social Democrat), started the whole process with President Clinton.
And now the current PM, Mette Frederiksen (Social Democrat), has been handed the torch.
  #27  
Old 08-02-2019, 04:04 AM
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I well remember George Bush's visit with his daughter. And Fred showing the Obama's the reception room with the fabulous Gobelin tapestries. I wonder how many of Trump's children will arrive with him this time?
  #28  
Old 08-02-2019, 06:34 AM
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That is a nice visit to look forward to. The Danish hosts wil do it -as always- with great style and grace.
  #29  
Old 08-02-2019, 07:17 AM
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Thanks you.
I simply love this stuff!

The political and commercial and well as PR analyses are pouring in.

Let me start with Melania Trump.
As we all know the First Lady of any country can be just as important in various ways as the actual head of state. Certainly get more attention. That is however unlikely during this visit, which is so much about politics. But nevertheless a visiting First Lady is cultivated just as much as her husband. (We are, I fear, not yet at the stage where a First Husband get a similar coverage.)
And as mentioned before this is where M&F comes in.
Now what do Mary have in common with Melania Trump?
Mary has started the very successful Free from bullying concept here in DK. (Which is now being exported BTW. Thank you for the great idea, Australians. )
Melania Trump has involved herself in net-bullying of children. So this is a field where she and Mary can have serious discussions and perhaps visit a kindergarten where the Free from bullying concept has been implemented.
Fashion is also something the two women have in common. Fashion happens to be one the largest export sectors for Danish commerce. We are talking serious money here! And Danish commerce would be delighted if this was included somehow.
All that based on what Trine Larsen from Billed Bladet has told in the news.
Melania Trump vil også være på arbejde under statsbesøg i Danmark - TV 2

As mentioned before, this visit is very much about Greenland, the Arctic and the North Pole. Politically it is truly a can of worms!
But what about the Danish relationship with Russia in that respect?
A number of nations lay claim to the North Pole. Greenland (aka Denmark) has a good chance of winning the rights to the North Pole. Both geologically as Greenland lies on same underwater plateau as the North Pole but also because Greenland (Denmark) is small enough to be politically palatable for Russia, China and USA who also lay claim on the North Pole.
Now, should Greenland (DK) win the North Pole, that means that Danish territory will extend as far as the shipping lane north of Siberia. - And Denmark is a close ally of USA...
At present Russia is expanding militarily north of Siberia and they actually have a base only a 1.000 km from the east coast of Greenland. That is relatively shorter than the distance between the American base of Thule and the east coast of Greenland.
As you know USA has requested to expand the Thule Base. They have also requested permission for US ships (warships and Coast Guard no doubt) to sail into Greenlandic ports and for US planes to land in Greenlandic airports and airstrips.
The Russians won't like that!
So far USA is still dependent on the Danish navy, because USA, surprisingly, only has one icebreaker. Denmark has several, that can all be deployed to Greenland. Not to mention what is already there.
So far so good, but there is still the little problem with Russia...
It is not in Danish interest to annoy the Russians too much. That can cause problems elsewhere, which we would very much like to avoid. And despite the EU sanctions it's also bad for business.
But the most important thing is that DK is the fifth largest merchant shipping nation, controlling some 12 % of the merchant shipping in the world. Larger than USA and Russia.
It is very much in Danish interests to keep the route north of Siberia open for Danish shipping as well.
So our new PM, Mette Frederiksen, face some very delicate challenges when negotiating with USA. It is unlikely that all US requests can come true. An enlargement of the Thule Base, yes. But US warships and warplanes in Greenlandic ports and airports? Only in "emergencies" I think.
DK simply cannot give USA too much, that would antagonize the Russians too much.
Danmark i klemme mellem stormagter - Trump kan have to ønsker med til Frederiksen - TV 2

President Trump will visit DK on Labor Day, which is US national holiday. It is also a slow news day there, which means that his state visit here, with all the pomp and circumstances there is in visiting a monarchy, may get more coverage than it would otherwise have received...
It is very much speculated that such footage will suit the President well.
News-wise the visit to Poland prior to going to DK is bigger in USA. But as the US press is in the general area anyway, they might just as well cover this visit as well.
Trump besøger Danmark på særlig dag, og det kan give maksimal omtale - TV 2

The climate may after all end up on the agenda, but in a round about way, it is speculated. Climate friendly solutions, know how and technology may be presented in a way that appeals to the businessman Trump.

Now to a more amusing side of this visit. It is no secret that President Trump is very fond of fast food.
As some you may remember setting up a hotdog stand to provide a night snack at DRF parties has virtually become a tradition. I wonder if the gala dinner won't end in a similar manner? That might be a little touch he might appreciate. We shall see.
DK hotdogs are very addictive! And once you have tasted one... you are hooked. The first one is free...
  #30  
Old 08-02-2019, 08:09 AM
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It's funny isn't it how all of a sudden Denmark is thrust onto the world stage, all because the US is interested in Greenland and POTUS is making a State visit. Careful diplomacy must be observed.
  #31  
Old 08-02-2019, 09:28 AM
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Thank you Muhler for your thorough background posts. So far, this hasn't made the news sites in the US - at least not the ones that I follow. Sept. 2 and 3 should be interesting.
  #32  
Old 08-02-2019, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
It's funny isn't it how all of a sudden Denmark is thrust onto the world stage, all because the US is interested in Greenland and POTUS is making a State visit. Careful diplomacy must be observed.

Call me a skeptic if you want, but I doubt Mr Trump has any knowledge about or interest in Greenland or Arctic issues.
  #33  
Old 08-02-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I am looking forward to following this state visit and I'm sure Denmark will be the perfect host to the US entourage. Always love seeing Queen "Daisy" Margrethe dressed to the nines.

I do have one big hope out of everything that will happen with this state visit. I sincerely hope President Trump doesn't lay eyes on what seems to be a trend these days with ugly, brown shoes and rubber galoshes. Perhaps we should email Melania and warn her about those so she can get Donald some blinders.
LOL. That "trend" is over in Norway thanks to Haakon, but so far Frederik has steered clear .

thank you Muhler for the very informative posts.
I hope Frederik with his vast knowledge of Greenland can enlighten a few in the US delegation. Probably a trip to the State of Green will be useful.
  #34  
Old 08-02-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Call me a skeptic if you want, but I doubt Mr Trump has any knowledge about or interest in Greenland or Arctic issues.
There is always a reason.

China visiting tiny Monaco. And there comes the monkey out of the sleeve: the principality is the first full 5G network-equipped European state. With gracious cooperation of the Chinese giant Huawei.

The US visiting Denmark: you have something we are veeeeery interested into... (Greenland).
  #35  
Old 08-02-2019, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
I well remember George Bush's visit with his daughter. And Fred showing the Obama's the reception room with the fabulous Gobelin tapestries. I wonder how many of Trump's children will arrive with him this time?


Recently Trump’s children were given a splendid reception in Ireland when they ventured forth into the neighbouring village where they paid for a drink for every person in all five pubs over two nights. Carlsberg too is probably one of the most favourite beverages in Ireland.
  #36  
Old 08-02-2019, 03:42 PM
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The Danes are pretty laid back, peaceful people. They won't protest this visit like they did in the U.K.....will they?
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  #37  
Old 08-02-2019, 03:50 PM
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Should be interesting to see what comes about AFTER the visit is over in regards to long term policies or actions in some of the areas Muhler has mentioned.



LaRae
  #38  
Old 08-02-2019, 04:28 PM
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China visit to Monaco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There is always a reason.

China visiting tiny Monaco. And there comes the monkey out of the sleeve: the principality is the first full 5G network-equipped European state. With gracious cooperation of the Chinese giant Huawei.

The US visiting Denmark: you have something we are veeeeery interested into... (Greenland).

Thank you for that information. For the life of me I couldn't at the time work out why President Xi would visit Monaco. Now we know. Very interesting.
I look forward to seeing the photo's of this visit from Potus to Denmark.

I read an article somewhere that as the ice shelf is melting in Greenland it is exposing the ground to a point where it will be easier for miners to extract the Rare Earth minerals that are so prevalent in Greenland.
This is why Russia, China and the USA are so interested in the place now.
If this is true. Interesting times ahead, especially as we think about potential contamination of a pristine wilderness from mining operations.
  #39  
Old 08-02-2019, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
I read an article somewhere that as the ice shelf is melting in Greenland it is exposing the ground to a point where it will be easier for miners to extract the Rare Earth minerals that are so prevalent in Greenland.
This is why Russia, China and the USA are so interested in the place now.
If this is true. Interesting times ahead, especially as we think about potential contamination of a pristine wilderness from mining operations.
You are spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
The Danes are pretty laid back, peaceful people. They won't protest this visit like they did in the U.K.....will they?
There will be protests. And considering that President Trump is a controversial person probably pretty large protests.
There are some extreme left wingers who may try and pick a fight with the police, we must hope they will be contained. As for the rest they will be peaceful and they will no doubt do their very best to ridicule the President, so expect a lot of caricatures.
In contrast to London, the Social Democrat mayor of Copenhagen will not lead any protests. He will not embarrass his capital, his country and his Prime Minister - who as you know is also a Social Democrat. - Things will be difficult enough for her as they are!
There are plans to get the famous/infamous Trump-blimp to Copenhagen. Whether that will be possible is the question. In contrast to London, the mayor has no say in launching air-balloons. That's up to the Ministry of Traffic - under the government. So the chance of the Trump-blimp being launched legally are IMO pretty slim.
However, I doubt President Trump will be anywhere near the protestors anyway. Apart from driving past some here and there. Again, in contrast to London there is little political will to rock the boat too much during this visit. And as such little political will to actually make sure the President is presented, so to speak, to the protestors.

As for the citizens of Copenhagen. I think I can safely say that most already wish this visit was over. So that they can get on with normal business of getting to and from work. Copenhagen isn't larger than this visit will cause major disturbances for the locals.
As for us in the rest of the country this means that an already over-stretched police force will be concentrated in Copenhagen. The burglars are right now polishing their crowbars! Unless you are being murdered the police response time will be around five years from late August.
But perhaps we will get a little help from Swedish police? The Scandinavian police forces helping each other with manpower has been seen before at major security events.
  #40  
Old 08-02-2019, 05:51 PM
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I think that's a grand idea getting the Swedish police to help out.
If the Queen puts on a State dinner or lunch at the request of her government Mr President will love it.
As Denmark and the DRF put on a splendid pomp and ceremony occasion and he loves that.
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