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  #141  
Old 02-08-2007, 01:38 PM
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Here is another published report that mentions the daughter of the groom to be

..::: SE og HØR | www.seoghoer.dk :::..

To my mind looking at the way a child is treated is very important when deciding on the parent as a life partner. Hence my lack of enthusaism for the Princess's choice.
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  #142  
Old 02-08-2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
Here is another published report that mentions the daughter of the groom to be

..::: SE og HØR | www.seoghoer.dk :::..

To my mind looking at the way a child is treated is very important when deciding on the parent as a life partner. Hence my lack of enthusaism for the Princess's choice.
Well, as far as I can read from it, the mother of the child doesn't want him to have contact with the child, as the girl has someone in her life that she thinks of as a father and she doesn't want to change that.
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  #143  
Old 02-08-2007, 01:58 PM
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Well...that kind of changes things doesn't it.

Of course, he could sue for visitation...but then he might be accused of just thinking of himself. Doesn't seem to be any winners here.

Alexandra appears to be a good mother...I am sure she wouldn't just bring anyone around her children.
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  #144  
Old 02-08-2007, 02:56 PM
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What does the Danish actually say.... that only changes things if the mother never wanted him to have visitation. If she is saying that now Emilie is 12, she has bonded with another, that would not change the allegations linked to in Larzen's post, the tabloid allegations, that Martin refused to pay child support and refused to see his infant daughter.

It wouldn't change anything about his alleged behaviour.

I am sure that if Princess Alexandra presses ahead and marries this man, the story of how he treated his little girl will be much written of in the Danish media so I daresay eventually facts will emerge.

Edit to add a couple more stories

..::: SE og HØR | www.seoghoer.dk :::..

and this

EXPRESSEN.SE/Kvällsposten: Martin - pappa för prinsessans barn

I should say it's not that I think Alexandra would in any way let Martin mistreat the princes, I just think that his behaviour to little Emily would kind of speak for itself. Also, I read he is 14 years younger than the Princess and I do not think that is a recipe for happiness...of course an engagement is not a marriage, perhaps she will call it off.
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  #145  
Old 02-08-2007, 03:19 PM
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Honestly...I am not sure all the facts will ever be known about Martin and his daughter. The fact remains that this is a situation that involves private citizens...and its really no one's business but theirs.

I am pretty sure that everyone will continue to make their own judgements based on what facts they know or choose to believe.

There are success stories of people with different age differences....I wouldn't write them off just yet.
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  #146  
Old 02-08-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severine
Maybe she will continue to receive the grant to serve as an "unofficial" ambassador for Denmark to other countries?
Royals are no ambassadors, also not 'unofficial'. Danmark has a perfectly equipped diplomatic service with embassies and consulates in almost all countries of the world.

They really do not need the former wife from the youngest son of the head of state.

Royals are... royals. Members of a historic family which delivers the country's head of state via the principle of hereditary succession, no more, no less.
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  #147  
Old 02-08-2007, 03:26 PM
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I can't quite agree Zonk. There are objective standards of behaviour. To me, what is at issue here is "are the published reports of Martin's behaviour truthful". If it is untrue, as the press alleges, that he refused to pay child support or visit his little girl once he was proven to be her biological father, then he is being wrongly smeared in a desperate effort to sell papers.

But if that is true, nothing can excuse it. He had a duty to pay support and IMO also a duty to see his flesh and blood.

As to the age difference, of course it may work out - but May-December romances usually have the woman in the part of May!

I am pretty sorry to see Alexandra surrender the "Her Highness" in this particular cause, and I do hope Erksbladet got it wrong, because to me a man who dodges child support is not a worthy husband for any woman.
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  #148  
Old 02-08-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras
Alright, let's get one thing straight here:

1.) There is no concrete evidence that Princess Alexandra was seeing Martin while she was still married to Prince Joachim.
Actually there is, there exists a picture of them at a cooking clas taken in october 2003 with Martins mother and Alexandras then lady in waiting Christine Lyng
http://ekstrabladet.dk/archive/00175...me_175494d.jpg
Ekstra Bladet

According to Ove Ullerup at the court Alexandra owns all her jewels, also her tiara she got from Margrethe for her wedding, and she can sell them if she is so inclined, she will also keep all her orders and decorations until her death as they are personal
Ekstra Bladet

Alexandra is minimizing her staff, one nanny is beeing let go as well as her secretary Christine Lyng will quit, but it is not decided when.
Christine Lyng forlader Alexandra ... Billed-Bladet: Danmarks Royale Ugeblad...
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  #149  
Old 02-08-2007, 03:33 PM
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If he has declined to pay child support and see his child than I agree that is quite ungentleman like behavior. But again...we don't know all the facts.

If it is alleged that the mother doesn't want him to have a relationship with the child...then what is he supposed to do? Take her to court and force the daughter to have a relationship with him. Even though she apparently has a father figure? How do we know that he is really not paying any type of support at all?

Again, I don't know ALL the facts nor do I think that we will know all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larzen
Actually there is, there exists a picture of them at a cooking clas taken in october 2003 with Martins mother and Alexandras then lady in waiting Christine Lyng
http://ekstrabladet.dk/archive/00175...me_175494d.jpg
Ekstra Bladet

According to Ove Ullerup at the court Alexandra owns all her jewels, also her tiara she got from Margrethe for her wedding, and she can sell them if she is so inclined, she will also keep all her orders and decorations until her death as they are personal
Ekstra Bladet

Alexandra is minimizing her staff, one nanny is beeing let go as well as her secretary Christine Lyng will quit, but it is not decided when.
Christine Lyng forlader Alexandra ... Billed-Bladet: Danmarks Royale Ugeblad...
Having a picture taken years ago doesn't quite say I am having a relationship. It just means they were friends who socialized.
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  #150  
Old 02-08-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larzen
According to Ove Ullerup at the court Alexandra owns all her jewels, also her tiara she got from Margrethe for her wedding, and she can sell them if she is so inclined, she will also keep all her orders and decorations until her death as they are personal
Ekstra Bladet
I must admit I don't understand if she is entitled to sell the tiara if she wants to; wasn't it the one given to QMII by her grandparents? I could understand it if there were provisions that it must be kept in the family line, via Nikolai or Felix. It's not as if the DRF is swimming in tiaras; hopefully they have taken
some non-published measures to ensure that it is not sold off.
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  #151  
Old 02-08-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
What does the Danish actually say.... that only changes things if the mother never wanted him to have visitation. If she is saying that now Emilie is 12, she has bonded with another, that would not change the allegations linked to in Larzen's post, the tabloid allegations, that Martin refused to pay child support and refused to see his infant daughter.

It wouldn't change anything about his alleged behaviour.
Well I don't read Danish but it looks even when the baby was born the mother's substantial relationship was with this other man who became the father figure and not Martin. Its quite possible that Martin may have had a very transitory encounter with her while she was dating this other man which resulted in the birth of a child and makes what happened next more sensible that it would be otherwise; that is she appeared to build a life with this other man and only when the story about Martin and Alex broke in the paper did the couple find it necessary to tell the child who her real father is.

In that case yes Martin did father a child and absolved himself of responsibility for it which is irresponsible but if he didn't have that strong a relationship with the mother to start with and she had someone else who was willing to take on the child, it makes it more understandable that he did what he did at the age of 16.
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  #152  
Old 02-08-2007, 03:40 PM
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No, of course that is quite true, we don't, and we royal watchers know to be wary of the press.

But just b/c the mother Heidi does not want him to see Emilie now after twelve years doesn't mean she didn't want it as a baby. It is "too late" now you would imagine if Emilie has another father figure. Also, he may now be paying support, I would like to know though if the allegations are true that in the early days he refused to.

I am sure he's paying it now, the stepfather of two princes could hardly disobey the law!

As you say Zonk, we may never know. All I say is that IF the published reports cited in the papers were in fact true, THEN in that case he's not good enough for Alexandra!

However a lot of old nonsense can be printed in the tabloids, so any story therein comes with a health warning and a pinch of salt required. As Jane Austen put it about one of her rascally men betrothed to a deserving young woman "I hope he may endeavour to deserve her"
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  #153  
Old 02-08-2007, 04:22 PM
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Well, as long as we're dealing with a bunch of unknowns here and "if this" and "maybe that," we're getting perilously close to replacing fact with speculation, which we don't need to do.

So having established that there was in fact a previous relationship when he was just a teenager, that there was a child as a result, and that he's the biological father but for whatever reason doesn't have contact with them now, perhaps we could drop this and move on?
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  #154  
Old 02-08-2007, 04:39 PM
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
Here is another published report that mentions the daughter of the groom to be

..::: SE og HØR | www.seoghoer.dk :::..

To my mind looking at the way a child is treated is very important when deciding on the parent as a life partner. Hence my lack of enthusaism for the Princess's choice.
Frothy,

We are all entitled to our opinions but I must say you sound as if you have some serious issues with the engagement of PA & Martin.

Unfortunately it is NOT you who will be marrying Martian it is PA and she has made her decision, so despite your disapproval - she will still marry him.

Maybe we should be happy for her as every women & man deserves to be happy - whatever that haapiness may be.

: )
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  #155  
Old 02-08-2007, 04:43 PM
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I said to move on, please.

Thank you.

Elspeth

Royal Forums administrator
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  #156  
Old 02-08-2007, 05:47 PM
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The news about HH Princess Alexandra’s engagement to Mr. Martin Jørgensen took me by surprise. I personally think that it is very nice when two people in love with one another marry, and contrary to many, I am actually glad that Princess Alexandra is leaving the Danish Royal House. Not because I ever disliked her as a person, or the way she carried out her role as a royal, on the contrary, but since the divorce, Her Highness has been in this rather strange place between being a member of the royal house, but not the royal family. I hope and have no doubts that The Princess will adapt well to her new life as Alexandra Christina, Countess of Frederiksborg (not Mrs. Jørgensen as Ekstra Bladet enjoys calling her now!).

I join many of you in congratulating the couple! Whether princess or countess, I will always admire and respect HH Princess Alexandra Christina, Countess of Frederiksborg.



/Lasse
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  #157  
Old 02-08-2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasse Pedersen
The news about HH Princess Alexandra’s engagement to Mr. Martin Jørgensen took me by surprise. I personally think that it is very nice when two people in love with one another marry, and contrary to many, I am actually glad that Princess Alexandra is leaving the Danish Royal House. Not because I ever disliked her as a person, or the way she carried out her role as a royal, on the contrary, but since the divorce, Her Highness has been in this rather strange place between being a member of the royal house, but not the royal family. I hope and have no doubts that The Princess will adapt well to her new life as Alexandra Christina, Countess of Frederiksborg (not Mrs. Jørgensen as Ekstra Bladet enjoys calling her now!).

I join many of you in congratulating the couple! Whether princess or countess, I will always admire and respect HH Princess Alexandra Christina, Countess of Frederiksborg.
/Lasse

Well said, Lasse Pedersen!! If Alexandra is happy and in love, then I'm pleased for her.
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  #158  
Old 02-08-2007, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasse Pedersen
I am actually glad that Princess Alexandra is leaving the Danish Royal House. Not because I ever disliked her as a person, or the way she carried out her role as a royal, on the contrary, but since the divorce, Her Highness has been in this rather strange place between being a member of the royal house, but not the royal family. I hope and have no doubts that The Princess will adapt well to her new life as Alexandra Christina, Countess of Frederiksborg
I agree. she's been in an extremely difficult, almost inhumanely difficult position and she's handled it so well. no one could have done it better. but it could not have been easy. i hope she'll be very happy.

I dont really understand some of the negative backlash. I am surprised at the stigma attached to an older woman marrying a younger man. that is really less enlightened than I would have expected here.

obviously such an age gap is not for everyone but i dont think its any different from any of the other factors (personality, spending habits, background etc ) that couples need to consider when they're deciding if they should marry.

I just cant imagine that this is anything other than true love. they could have continued dating. many committed couples in Denmark never marry.there is no social stigma attached to that. but they chose marriage (to Alexandra's considerable financial detriment, under the terms of her divorce ). that suggests to me the depth of the love and commitment between them.
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  #159  
Old 02-09-2007, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyemma
I agree. she's been in an extremely difficult, almost inhumanely difficult position and she's handled it so well. no one could have done it better. but it could not have been easy. i hope she'll be very happy.

I
I am a big fan of PA. Not sure what you mean by inhumane. She is a divorcee like many others - except she is high profile and part of royal family. She is getting financial support, a house and etc. Don't know what is inhumane about her life. Difficult yes.
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  #160  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:07 AM
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I don't think everybody deserves happiness, but I'm sure Alexandra does! Which is exactly why I worry about her choice.

I must agree that it's hardly that tough to go on being the mother of two princes, receive a stipend and a wonderful noble title sua juris. That said with the marriage she becomes subject to tax... she must certainly love him to put up with such a major financial loss.

Also, I think this engagement shows how wisely the Queen handled the divorce. There seems to be no bitterness at all, and Alexandra has status of her own that reflects very well both that she is not the wife or unremarried ex wife of a Prince, yet is not just Mrs. Joe Schmoe and has the respect due to the mother of two princes and a woman that has conducted herself well for Denmark. Alexandra is a great contrast to the unfortunate pictures of Fergie with a riding crop we were treated to yesterday, and the lack of bitterness and ease with which she has moved on surely shows the deft handling of the situation by Queen Margarethe.
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