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  #61  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:07 PM
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She wouldn't be able to be with the Royal Family. She wouldn't be able to wear a Tiara.

I said it before, and I will say it again, she has become more Royal than the Princely Family she is attached to.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:14 PM
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She wouldn't be able to be with the Royal Family. She wouldn't be able to wear a Tiara.

I said it before, and I will say it again, she has become more Royal than the Princely Family she is attached to.
This is your apparent reason why she didn't go home? Because she would miss wearing a tiara, and attending royal events?

I don't agree with you last point, I don't know how a commoner can become more royal, than her royal blooded partner.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:33 PM
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Thank you for answering my question, Guido (and I'm really sorry that I called you by the wrong name in my previous post), but how do you know that her sister is married to this man? Where did you get that information? I don't recall ever seeing anything about her sister in the news before, and I have never read anything about her sister's name.

Not a Pretender-I'm curious about the information in the will; specifically, this part that you posted:
"which one could place as an interpretation looking back through a modern lens at it. It adheres to the language of the day, including the means by which property was expected to be held and distributed after a final Nazi victory".

Did it use this term "Nazi victory"? If it did, wouldn't that be grounds for having the will thrown out in court since we all know that there was no Nazi victory? Did it make any stipulations for a Nazi defeat? I am not a legal scholar, but I would think that if this was based on a Nazi victory, they might have a chance to throw it out (if they want to, that is).
I've not seen the will itself; the process in the German courts is for non-publication of contested wills until such time as they are finally adjudicated. My knowledge is based in my current position with an international accounting firm and my particular area of expertise in property, as well as my conversations with our legal teams in a similar case. In the instances in which I have seen the documents, no such phrase as "Nazi victory" is discussed. In fact, the word "Nazi" is not used, only "Aryan." It has been explained to me that there was no need for any such phrase, as the government was highly confident of the outcome of the war (although they were sadly disabused of that, come 1945.)

The fact is and remains that there is no birthright at all besides the name of Berleburg. Gustav's inheritance has always been conditional and subject to this will, from before his own birth. His father, Prince Richard, has enjoyed the benefits of this wealth since his birth in 1934, or for a solid 76 years. Gustav has (thoroughly) enjoyed the benefits of this wealth for 41 sumputous years. Combined, that's a hefty 117 years of wealth and luxury beyond what most could genuinely come to understand. And the one and only stipulation regarded one marriage - and that's been known for over seventy years!

If this many people have benefitted financially for this long (Richard, Benedikt, Alexandra, Gustav, and Nathalie) by this will, this wealth, this stipulation - then I think it's disingenous to say that the will is something dreadful.

And as many a dispossed former Royal or aristocrat can tell you - or honestly speaking anyone who has lost their home in the last two years in the international housing credit crises - one can know what it's like to lose financially due to no choice or fault of their own: one can survive it, and one can even thrive. If Gustav's life is so....bereft...that the lack of incredible wealth is a tragedy beyond belief, I just don't know what. It's not as though he'd be on the dole. And after all, his girlfriend is a published writer, isn't she? Employable, the pair of them.

Once again, this is 100% Gustav's choice. And it's a choice he's known about since he was old enough to understand what being called "Prince" really meant.

As to his girlfriend and her choices, well, that's another post
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  #64  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:52 PM
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This is your apparent reason why she didn't go home? Because she would miss wearing a tiara, and attending royal events?

I don't agree with you last point, I don't know how a commoner can become more royal, than her royal blooded partner.
I think that she has made her choice pretty clear. I was telling my husband about this last night, and this is what I outlined:

Situation 1:
A. My sister, a widow but now remarried, gives birth to her third child. I can go see her and the new baby and my nieces and my brother. It's a quiet family affair.

B. My boyfriend's cousin has a third child by his second wife. I can go to a baptism where we all get dressed up and wave at photographers.

What would be my choice? A. What was her choice? B.

Situation 2:
A. My sister has now been widowed for the second time. She and her three children have found the body of their father and husband, murdered by gunfire.

B. My boyfriend's aunt is throwing a big party and I already have my dress and jewelry.

What would be my choice? A. What was her choice? B.

---------

As to the "more Royal than royal," it's a figure of speech more than an actual statement of fact. It's analagous to a convert to a religion being more devout that someone having been born and raised into that religion.

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Originally Posted by royalsmartie View Post
His children's birthmark! !
They use laser surgery for that now. No worries.
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  #65  
Old 04-21-2010, 02:54 PM
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Yes, that is the truth. Carina has one sister who has already lost two husbands.
You haven't answered my question. HOW do you know this? The news stories STILL haven't mentioned the wife's name. How do you know this is her in-laws? How do you know that her first husband died? Otherwise, this seems like gossip, IMO. Would you please tell us how you know this information?
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  #66  
Old 04-21-2010, 03:14 PM
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Stepfather, adult son dead after apparent family dispute led to shooting off Highway 35 - Santa Cruz Sentinel

The picture of the sister, although not close up, doesn't look like Carina.
Plus the artcile says

Quote:
with three young children,
I thought they only had one child?
None of the articles mention a Liselotte Jones.

Guido, How do you know this article is about Carina's sister. I'm starting to wonder like sgl.
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  #67  
Old 04-21-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
Stepfather, adult son dead after apparent family dispute led to shooting off Highway 35 - Santa Cruz Sentinel

The picture of the sister, although not close up, doesn't look like Carina.
Plus the artcile says



I thought they only had one child?
None of the articles mention a Liselotte Jones.

Guido, How do you know this article is about Carina's sister. I'm starting to wonder like sgl.
The woman is Liselott, Carina's sister. Believe me, if she wasn't be her, I wouldn't post it.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
The woman is Liselott, Carina's sister. Believe me, if she wasn't be her, I wouldn't post it. Richard and Liselott have 3 children what I wrote in previous post.
You're still not answering the question. WHERE did you get this information? How do you know this? Her family has never been covered in the news. What are your sources? HOW did you know that Carina's sister has been married twice? Citing sources makes this more credible.
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  #69  
Old 04-21-2010, 04:07 PM
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You're still not answering the question. WHERE did you get this information? How do you know this? Her family has never been covered in the news. What are your sources? HOW did you know that Carina's sister has been married twice? Citing sources makes this more credible.
If you don't believe me, just search their names in a phone book.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:20 PM
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Their names are different from Carina's, that's why I am asking you how you have this information. Why can't you divulge your sources? It sounds suspicious and not very credible, IMO.

I don't know what type of phonebook you are looking at, but I've never seen a phonebook that lists maiden names and marital history.
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  #71  
Old 04-21-2010, 05:08 PM
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I don't think Carina is that heartless to not be with her family especially her sister and her neices/nephews after her second husband has past away. I just can't believe it, she doesn't seem like that.
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  #72  
Old 04-21-2010, 05:16 PM
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From this link: Royal News: August 2008

Quote:
August 7th
This week's Billed-Bladet carries an interview with Hereditary Prince Gustav zu Sayn-Wittgenstein and his girlfriend Carina Axelsson at Graasten castle on the occasion of the 40th birthday of Carina on 5 August. She said that it had been fun that the magazines so far thought that she was 6 years younger than Gustav, while in fact she is five months older. Her full name is Carina Lynn Axelsson, she grew up in Santa Cruz, California, USA, and is the eldest of three children of a Swedish father and a Mexican mother. The couple has been together for 6 years, and lives together at Berleburg castle since three years. They met at a dinner with friends in Germany. Carina said she has been warmly welcomed by Gustav's family
From Los Gatos High School where Carina went to school, there are 4 Axelsson's listed: Site Search - Los Gatos High School Alumni Association

If we go by the BB translation, we can rule Erik out since he graduated before Carina making him older. Since Carina is the eldest, the other two women could be her sibling: Kerry Axelsson and Liselot K. Jones.

They put Axelsson in () after Liselot's name since she uses her married name. So Kerry Axelsson's maiden name was Christiansen.

It's unclear if Kerry is related to Carina but definitely Erik and Liselot have the same last name - Axelsson - as Carina. Maybe the BB translation is wrong and Carina is one of three children, Erik being the eldest. Maybe he ended up marrying Kerry Christiansen but definitely Liselot K. Jones used to be Liselot Axelsson.

On this LinkedIn page, Kerry Axelsson - LinkedIn
Kerry Axelsson is listed as having graduated from Los Gatos HS and is in the process of publishing a cookbook. Maybe Christiansen is her married name and the Los Gatos Alumni link made a mistake. She might be Carina's sister.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:25 PM
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Jones is a very common last name in the United States. The news stories that Guido have posted about this crime have not stated the name of the victim's wife. What I want to know is, how does anyone know that this is Carina's sister's husband? Did someone look up marriage records? How is it known that she is a widow from her first marriage? This seems like a lot of personal information that I'm sure the family wouldn't want discussed on a forum.
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  #74  
Old 04-21-2010, 05:25 PM
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I think it's too much to expect Carina to have left the Danish party for the States on the 16th after hearing the news - you couldn't fly in or out of Europe then. Even if there were airports open in the south, it was nearly impossible to get trains or buses because all the people who had been booked for cancelled flights were flooding into the train stations. And even if she'd gotten to the south, there was no guarantee she could have gotten a flight because so many others might have gone south in hopes of doing the same thing.

You can make a case that she should have skipped Henrik's baptism and gone to her sister's baby's, but I don't think it's fair to say she should have gone home on this occasion. Europe was in the midst of the worst travel chaos in history.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:02 PM
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Billed-Bladet has now written about this incident:
Billed-Bladet - Chok i kongehuset: Carina Axelssons svoger myrdet
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:25 PM
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I realize that you are searching for sources, and they are there for you to find and they are credible. If you need further information, I would suggest using the Santa Clara County on-line database, California Public Records, and Santa Cruz County property records databases. There are some privacy issues with regard to posting direct links on these things (such as revealing addresses,) but you can research this the same way that someone else here researched Gustav's girlfriend's real age.

The links most definitely say the woman's name in the story, particularly those in the Sun Sentinel. And as to whether the young woman resembles Gustav's girlfriend, well, she's been photographed within hours of finding her husband slain; I can't imagine that's her best angle, or that she's been primped, pressed, curled, coiffed, made-up, glittered and polished. Had she been, we might see more of a resemblance. As it is, it's her sister who has had the benefit of the spit-and-shine, whereas we are seeing a photo in a paper of a woman who walked in with three small babies and found her husband dead. I think that even if they were the same person, the vast disparity in the circumstances of the photos would lead us to believe they were not!
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:28 PM
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This was translated by aus73 from the Unofficial Crown Princess Mary MB:

Quote:
Summary of the article in Billed Bladet issue 32, 2008

Af Anna Johannesen

Gustav holdt romantisk fodelsdag for Carina, da hun fyldte 40 - Gustav hosts a romantic birthday party for Carina, she turns 40.

Carina shall celebrate her round birthday next Tuesday. They have been together for 6 years. Carina said, she has had many delightful birthdays. It has been stated that I am six years younger than Gustav, thank you for that. Yet, I am four months older than Gustav.
The interview was held in the park behind Grasten Slot. Carina’s 40th birthday is very special and the presents have been bought. Carina has a Swedish father and Mexican mother. Carina and Gustav have been together for six years. Their love had become known officially two years ago at the wedding of Prince Phillip of Hesse at Panker in Germany. For three years now Carina has resided at Berleburg Slot. She and Prince Gustav have lived in the delightful part of the Castle that Princess Margareta used to live in til her death in August 2005. How did you meet? Gustav said, I had accepted an invitation to dinner by some friends in Germany. A couple of friends, one knew Carina and one knew me. It was a set-up. I had come to meet Carina and that second her mobile phone rang. All the mobile phones kept ringing throughout the dinner. After the dinner finished, Carina had turned on her phone again. I took her number and called her up from another part of the room and their love began. Carina Axelsson is also called Lynn. She was born and had grown up in California, her hometown is Santa Cruz south from San Francisco. She has two siblings, a sister and a brother and "I am the boss," says Carina. Carina mostly speaks English with Gustav. Carina speaks Spanish and French and a little Danish . When Carina was 20 she moved to Paris. "Paris and London are ok, but I love Copenhagen. It is beautiful with a lot of culture and delightful restaurants." said Carina. "Carina is a good cook," said Prince Gustav. They like Italian food. Prince Gustav said," that his father loves German food and his love is known as 'Shopping Girl.' " Carina’s parents and siblings live in the USA. Her family is far away and they have the telephone, and emails. Not far for me is my Swedish family. I had introduced Gustav to all my aunts and oncles and cousins from my Swedish father’s family. Carina is an illustrator and children’s book author. "I work on a book til I finally meet the publisher. Princess or Mrs. Axelsson for me it doesn’t matter", Carina said. "Our situation is special. All of my family understand and accept it. Carina has been warmly embraced by all the family. That is that, this is enough for us, "said Prince Gustav. Carina, said, "Gustav’s parents Princess Benedikte and Prince Richard have been fantastic to me. I have felt a great warmth from all in the royal family. The Queen and Prince Henrik have been extremely sweet and generous." Eventually, we shall be rightfully become man and wife . Do you want children?
Gustav said, "it is in God’s hands."
Carina has one brother and one sister. From this I will guess it is Erik who is older and Liselot who is younger, Carina being the middle child.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:30 PM
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I think it's too much to expect Carina to have left the Danish party for the States on the 16th after hearing the news -
The incident was on the 15th, the day before the Danish party. Carina elected to not only remain in Denmark (when other travel options were available) but to attend public events. That's tasteless.

We're also dealing with a very wealthy family here; a train to points south would have been easy to arrange, and private jet transport readily available to those in that income bracket. Althought I don't know Queen Margrethe personally, she appears to me to be the type of person who not only would say "Please, go be with your family," but would probably ask her staff to find private transport such as a Gulfstream to ferry the woman to her sister. Again, I'd like to point out the extreme wealth we are talking about here; this isn't your basic traveler, having to stand in line at Heathrow and glumly stare at the flight schedules.

Partying away while your sister is laying out her husband and comforting her babies is chilling. Just chilling.


----------------

ETA: Well done on the research, ayvee. I'm most impressed. And Billed-Bladet has gotten most of it right, although as usual it's a bit frothy.

So based on the research that has been shown here and can be verified through public records, she has an older brother Erik and a younger sister. The younger sister, Liselot, is Mrs. Jones. Liselot Axelsson Jones has three children; one by her first husband (deceased,) and two by her second husband (murdered.) Her second husband adopted her child from her first husband. Those facts can be found in the California public records, almost all of which are on-line, generally as part of published family court notices.

Mrs. Jones' husband was found murdered by his wife and three children. While the case is still under investigation, it appears to be a murder-suicide.

The murder happened before 7:30 am on Thursday, April 15, 2010, as that is the date and time that Mrs. Jones found her husband's body and called the police. That would be 4:30 pm in Copenhagen, the day before the festivities for the Queen began.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:10 PM
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[As to the "more Royal than royal," it's a figure of speech more than an actual statement of fact. It's analagous to a convert to a religion being more devout that someone having been born and raised into that religion.[/QUOTE]


Thank you for explaining on my behalf; another phrase/figure of speech that could be used is "more native than the natives".
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:25 PM
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You betcha, michelleq! I feel quite old sometimes, like my slang is from another century. Oh, it is. The twentieth!
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