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  #121  
Old 04-30-2010, 01:56 PM
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It was interesting reading the Swedish papers' accounts of the non-travel of Gustav's girlfriend to the States. For the very first time, they did not refer to her as Swedish or of Swedish ancestry, but instead emphasized her US or Mexican heritage.

As to whether or not they verified the information (meaning the DRF and/or the newspapers,) it depends on whether they got their information from public records (like birth/death records, etc.) or consulted with her press agent. The press agent, as a paid spinner of "fact," has a vested interest in glossiness.
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  #122  
Old 06-08-2010, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayvee View Post
Billed-Bladet has now written about this incident:
Billed-Bladet - Chok i kongehuset: Carina Axelssons svoger myrdet

Translated articles from Denmark and Sweden

http://translate.google.com/translat...rdet%26hl%3Den

Google Translate

http://translate.google.com/translat...rdad%26hl%3Den

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Summary of article in Billed Bladet #17, 2010.
Carina I sorg – Carina in mourning.
Written by John Lautrup.

Carina Axelsson was unable to get to her sister, Lislott Jones, who recently lost her husband.
Gustav Grüner, Princess Benedikte’s private secretary said: “Carina Axelsson is very sad but do not wish to make a statement. She considers the matter as being a completely private matter, which does not involve the DRF”.
He adds that Carina would have flown to USA had the ash cloud not prevented her.

Her brother-in-law (svoger), Richard Jones was murdered by his stepfather. The reason seems to be economic controversy.
Liselott Jones lost her first husband four years ago. He committed suicide. She has three girls aged eight months to five years.
http://translate.google.com/translat...trup%26hl%3Den
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  #123  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
He's the only person it affects, Zonk. His children or any other heirs beyond the direct heir to the grandfather are unaffected. And since it's property, the courts have found (in other similar cases) that such wills can be upheld unless they contravene human rights.
Hi, NotAPretender. I'm insufferably wordy so this may get a little long, please bear with me.

I had not looked at this thread until today. Initially while reading the post (and I read them ALL before this posting), I was ready to question the "axe you had to grind" with Gustav and/or Carina just as other posters and moderators had done. LOL...to be honest, I thought you sounded like some psychotic person hell-bent on screaming them into a bloody pulp!

After your exchange with Zonk (I'm completely in agreement with you on the opinion/judgment discussion) [BTW, hi Zonk] and reading about the loss you experienced and all you had to handle to get to your sister in Virginia, I understand at least the ferocity (is that a word?) behind your opinions of them. I also express my sympathies for your sister's loss.

Before my question, please let me make it clear...I don't know anything, haven't researched anything about dates, travel, call times, relationships, etc. I could not care less about Carina, Gustav, the Nazi grandfather, any of their money, the drooling cousins, who has a hard time having a baby, who lied about their age, I just don't care. I have no way of knowing if any travel has happened nor am I inclined to research it. What I do know is that, like yourself, if faced with the situation Carina was in, at the very least she should have excused herself from the events after the first day. If Carina and her sister were completely estranged, it would be a different story...but according to the links posted here, she portrayed herself as having a sister and a relationship with her. So attendance at events at the very least was in poor taste. The circumstances of her brother-in-law's death (even if she NEVER met him) are tragic, and even from halfway around the world, discreet mourning would not dishonor QMII and would be support for her sister in the USA. That is my opinion.

Okay, that being said...and removing all of that from the equation, you seem very well-versed in the logistics of the will, hence my quote above of your previous post about Gustav being the only one affected by this.

HERE IS MY QUESTION (FINALLY!):

If I were Carina in this situation, would it be possible for me to sue/contest the will? I ask because it seems that if Gustav "chose" to be in love with Carina, and she "chose" to be in love with him, then she would also be affected by the stipulations of the will and is being discriminated against for several reasons - one she could change, two she could not. Seeing as the two she cannot deal with a racist requirement (Aryan) in a country that has outlawed racism, and a caste requirement (Noble) in a country that no longer recognizes royal and noble titles...could she challenge that the grandfather, without even knowing her, is violating her human rights on those grounds?

It seems like all of these challenges to these wills have come from the heirs and I am just wondering if one of the "normal" people could bring such claims.

Thank you in advance for any information. (Don't "chase" the money, "make" the money.)

Rascal
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  #124  
Old 07-09-2010, 10:34 PM
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Howdy Rascal!

Carina has no standing to contest the will.

To forbid a marriage between the two would, in fact, violate their human rights. A marriage has not been forbidden - they can marry. Let me repeat: they can marry. End of story.

The Berleberg family has enjoyed an immensely wealthy lifestyle by virtue of this will; given Grandpop's support of the Nazi regime, one could argue that reasonably speaking, they deserved to have been stripped of every deutschmark. The will, legally enforceable, saved them from a life of not being wealthy. To dispute it now, and to clothe themselves in the false garments of right and human rights, is beyond insulting to the intelligence.

Gustav's girlfriend has earned a living before and can earn a living after the tiara.

They can marry. They want to marry and be wealthy under terms of a will that they violate, after first richly and lengthily enjoying its benefits.

They don't seem too disturbed by it all, now, though.

I'm heartened by the fact that the next heir after Gustav carries no such baggage, is gainfully employed as well as successfully managing his own considerable heritage and estates, has married a college educated woman of great professional standing, has a legitimate heir, follows his (Protestant) faith with simple honor and heartfelt devotion, and understands that one cannot talk out of both sides of the mouth.

Welcome. You're a good writer. Have a good pull at the first part of this little thread and you will understand a lot. PM me for more background - my work takes me into a strange little world of arcania with regard to such matters. And people think financial reporting is boring!
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  #125  
Old 08-29-2010, 02:07 PM
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Carina made an appearance at the Greek Royal wedding this weekend.
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  #126  
Old 08-31-2010, 01:38 AM
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Any updates with news of the will. For goodness' sake it's been 60 years since wwII! What is taking the courts so long to discard it! It's the 21st century,

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalsmartie View Post
I ask the same question and I thin its because they won't let them get married and he's senting a message to the world that she still his princess
I guess if you own one or have access to one, you can still wear one. Look at Elizabeth Taylor. Mike Todd bought her one and she's worn it. Salma Hayek and Scarlett Johansson have both worn tiaras to the oscars.
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  #127  
Old 10-16-2010, 12:26 AM
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Gustav and Carina do have the choice to marry right now but they want to fight the will they are trying to get all three things at once and there are:1.Money.2.title 3.property. I hope something good comes out of this it's their decision let's see what the come out is going to be.
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  #128  
Old 10-18-2010, 02:37 PM
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Sorry, I don't get it. I didn't even know that she is not married to him. Why not??
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  #129  
Old 10-19-2010, 12:20 PM
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Because if they get married, he loses his money. They appear to like the money more than marriage.

For more details as to why he would lose the money, be sure to read the earlier parts of this thread and Part I. It's very comprehensive.
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  #130  
Old 10-19-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
Because if they get married, he loses his money. They appear to like the money more than marriage.

For more details as to why he would lose the money, be sure to read the earlier parts of this thread and Part I. It's very comprehensive.
Well, it is not just Gustav's money, it is the complete heritage from his grandfather (money, castle, assets) that would go to his uncle (or cousin, I'm not sure). It does not just concern Prince Gustav, but also his parents. If he looses the heritage, the whole family could pack their things and move out of their home, because their home would go to another branch of the family.
And let's face it: in 21st century Germany marriage is not so important anymore. People have no problem with unmarried couples living together. Gustav has made it clear that he is really committed to his partner, if that is enough for her, it is enough for me as well.
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  #131  
Old 10-19-2010, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
Well, it is not just Gustav's money, it is the complete heritage from his grandfather (money, castle, assets) that would go to his uncle (or cousin, I'm not sure). It does not just concern Prince Gustav, but also his parents. If he looses the heritage, the whole family could pack their things and move out of their home, because their home would go to another branch of the family.
And let's face it: in 21st century Germany marriage is not so important anymore. People have no problem with unmarried couples living together. Gustav has made it clear that he is really committed to his partner, if that is enough for her, it is enough for me as well.
Cousin. Bernhard.

There is the matter of passing it on to the next generation, since illegitimate children would not be able to inherit. It will all go to his cousin when Gustav dies.

As I said, they like the money, they like the life.
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  #132  
Old 10-19-2010, 03:51 PM
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But wait....how come the fortune skipped the father. So everyone lives at the castle, and if he marries, everything goes to Bernhard......so its not just Gustav and Carina who would lose by this marriage?

Thats a big different don't you think NaP?
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  #133  
Old 10-19-2010, 04:11 PM
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The will of the grandfather was written to avoid taxes. So Gustav was the heir and as he wasn't even born when his grandfather (propably) died, they would have been made to pay full taxes. So they waited to have him declared dead by court until Gustav was born. (Gustav was born January 1969, his grandfather was declared dead in November 1969.) :)

Btw. I doubt that Benhard is interested in inheriting and giving up his own publishing house to take care of the Sayn-Wittgenstein forestry
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  #134  
Old 10-19-2010, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
Because if they get married, he loses his money. They appear to like the money more than marriage.

For more details as to why he would lose the money, be sure to read the earlier parts of this thread and Part I. It's very comprehensive.
It's not only about him. If he is excluded from inheriting so are his sisters.
Gustav, Hereditary Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If he dies without a child his sisters can still inherit some estates.
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  #135  
Old 10-19-2010, 04:54 PM
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Okay...so there is more to this picture than just Gustav being money hungry.

If he marries Carina (or someone who is not approved by the rules of the grandfather's will) ......that's it he loses everything. And his parents who I assume live on the property might also lose their home.

If he doesn't marry Carina and dies (not that I am wishing that on him), his sisters can still inheirit some of the estate from him and the rest it goes to his cousin.

So if Gustav and Carina marry and he loses everything, and his immeadiate family loses everything, will he still be called selfish?
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  #136  
Old 10-19-2010, 05:03 PM
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Alexandra and Nathalie can't inherit anything belonging to the Sayn-Wittgenstein estate that Gustav inherited or that has been since added to the estate.
I'm unsure how it is about money that Gustav receives from the estate. I presume it will be seen as similar to a salary or perhaps it is just a part of the profit of the estate he is entitled to?
Either way, he will only be able to leave this part to whom he wishes. Meaning that he could also leave everything (except his inheritance) to Carina, Alexandra, Nathalie, you, me or everyone else.

Hope I didn't confuse anyone :)

And yes, his parents same as Nathalie and her husband live on the property. But I am unsure if his parents are still living in the mainhouse.
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  #137  
Old 10-20-2010, 09:31 AM
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Alexandra and Nathalie can't inherit anything belonging to the Sayn-Wittgenstein estate that Gustav inherited or that has been since added to the estate.
I'm unsure how it is about money that Gustav receives from the estate. I presume it will be seen as similar to a salary or perhaps it is just a part of the profit of the estate he is entitled to?
Either way, he will only be able to leave this part to whom he wishes. Meaning that he could also leave everything (except his inheritance) to Carina, Alexandra, Nathalie, you, me or everyone else.

Hope I didn't confuse anyone :)

And yes, his parents same as Nathalie and her husband live on the property. But I am unsure if his parents are still living in the mainhouse.
You are correct: Gustav's sisters and their children have always been excluded from inheriting the bulk of the estate, which passed whole and without taxation from Gustav's grandfather to Gustav as part of an excellent set of estate planning documents.

There are some people who simply choose not to marry or have children, regardless of their financial situation. However, there are significant financial incentives here to remain unmarried, and so they do.

It definitely takes that well-tended "tragic-tale-of-love-thwarted" gleam off.
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  #138  
Old 10-20-2010, 09:40 AM
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As you said, there are people who simply choose not to marry or have children. The rest is pure speculation on your part. :)
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  #139  
Old 10-20-2010, 11:18 AM
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I've never been one to buy into the myths and fairytales spun by PR specialists; fact patterns do say much more, n'est pas?
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  #140  
Old 10-20-2010, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
Cousin. Bernhard.

There is the matter of passing it on to the next generation, since illegitimate children would not be able to inherit. It will all go to his cousin when Gustav dies.

As I said, they like the money, they like the life.
Money, money, money... I guess I would do the same if I were in his shoes. I would let the inheritance go to the cousin after my death rathen than letting it go immediately.
And how old is Carina? I believe that they already would have children if they really, really wanted to. Maybe they don't. Maybe they can't.
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