Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events & Discussion Part 2

[grevinnan]

Carina and Gustav are adults and perfectly able to make decisions on their own. To chastise them for how they decided to proceed with the evening after they assumedly received the tragic news implies that they are somehow not quite capable of making appropriate decisions. To stop what they were are doing would in no way have helped her sister not would I expect her sister to questions why Carina did not change her plans for the evening.

[michelleq]

This does not appear to be a woman upset over her sister's lost. And, again, she hit her camera cue each and every time.

Billed-Bladet - the festivities' most beautiful dresses

photo courtesy of Billed-Bladet

[Zonk]

Aren't we making assumptions that she knew about her sister's tragedy prior to the event. Was there anyone in the room with her when she received the call, and she shrugged it off and said, What the Heck? I am dressed already?

Does any one know for a FACT when and where she was when she heard about her sister's husband? If not, then all of this is just your opinion....which you are entitled to but let's just keep it real that its your opinion. I hardly think we will know all the facts regarding this.

[ayvee]

Originally Posted by michelleq

This does not appear to be a woman upset over her sister's lost. And, again, she hit her camera cue each and every time.

Billed-Bladet - the festivities' most beautiful dresses

photo courtesy of Billed-Bladet

This is just one photo taken in a second. Why make the conclusion that Carina isn't upset?

What about this photo: http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n...ark/carina.jpg
Can you say the same thing?

Once again, no one knows when she learned of the tragedy.

[michelleq]

Can you? As it has been stated that conclusions should not be made by one photo (there were more than one) you can't make a conclusion about this as, again, she was there!

I still say that it was tasteless for her and Gustav to attend!

[Melibea]

The first day they have the excuse that maybe they didn't know. but the next days?

[Zonk]

But again, are you aware of a conversation that Carina had with her sister that we are not aware of?

My point is...one shouldn't make judgements without knowing all the facts.

[NotAPretender]

The newspapers are reporting (EB & BB's articles, linked in this thread) that Gustav's girlfriend was informed at some time before, during, or after the Thursday gala event. So if there is a hue and cry that she must be given all consideration for attending this gala in spite of the news/because she didn't know the news/because her sister had only been married a year (has the individual who declared this verified that fact?) and that doesn't deserve a mourning by anyone, then I'm willing to say....glad she enjoyed her gown and tiara.

But any events after that? Nope. Sorry. She'd made her appearance, hit the marks on the carpet, gotten the pictures that were needed to record her presence, and if you'd like to call it that, "honored" the Queen.

Beyond that? Beyond Thursday? What did she attend? And why? Seriously, why? Because she was there, because she had the clothes, because her sister's second widowhood was undeserving of a cessation in a party for her boyfriend's aunt, what?

We're not exactly speaking of Crown Princess Mary's presence or absence, or even Princess Marie's. The Queen's nephew's paramour's presence neither made nor broke that party, in my opinion. (The absence of genuine Royal The Prince Phillip didn't make or break it, and I'd consider him to be not only of considerably higher rank but someone that I'd actually enjoy having at a party like this!)

If it is that her presence at the gala was due to her not knowing (facts not in evidence, but OK,) then I'm delighted that she was able to attend, enjoy good company: good spirits: good people: good wardrobe. But after that? My opinion remains unchanged: tasteless and disrespectful, not just to her sister, but to her hostess The Queen.

Again, it's about the choices that this couple makes and continues to make. In this instance, it was her choice to attend, to continue to attend events even after knowing of this tragedy and its aftermath. Perhaps it was felt that, since the sister had a marriage of short duration was hardly worth grieving over, as a previous posting party stated was their own opinion about, and because a Queen's birthday comes so rarely (only once a year,) that a choice of attending one event was infinitely preferable to respecting a loss by declining futher invitations. I mean, after all, this wasn't the first time her sister had lost a husband, right?

I can give the benefit of the doubt for the one event. After that - and considering that even the newspapers knew of it, let along a Royal board a continent away - well....

[NotAPretender]

What is the line between judgment and opinion, Zonk? I'm asking because I respect you and because I really want to know how you view that.

We can only know what we can know, and information that is not part of public record (such as birth, marriage, death records, data maintained by governing bodies, etc.) is subject to interpretation. Here in this thread, we've seen lots of sources provided but they are all second hand and filtered. (BB has a history of pretty much publishing press releases, for instance.)

Unless The Royal Forums is trending toward a strict reporting of fact alone without the participants being allowed to express opinions on them, then it's like being at....work....for me. (where everything has to be footnoted and sourced.)

Are we trending to a "Countess LargeyDoodles wore a dress on Friday" without being able to say "it was a cream colored dress...." because it could have been cream or white or actually beige?

Are we trending to "Count PartlyPants got married on the 19th" without being able to discuss "why in God's name did a guy with a pasty white complexion wear shiny silver spangles?" because "pasty" is a judgement?

People here have the opinion that partying after you've heard about a death in the family is in poor taste at best. Others here seem to applaud it. Vive la différence? or "you can't say that because it's judgmental?"

[Zonk]

Its a fine line honestly. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on what the two are.

Opinion to me is I don't like Carina because of X and Y. That is your opinion and someone might point out the errors of X and Y and you still hold that opinion. Someone once asked me their opinion of a singer and I said I did't like her...they said why...and I said you know...once I hit 40 I came of the opinion that I didn't have to have a specific reason I just don't like her. Personally if someone came out and said that didn't like Carina (or Mary, Maxima, Letizia, Camilla, etc.) because they just didn't, I would say okay. And it would be okay to me becase no matter what I say in her defence.....I really don't think their opinion will change?

To me Judgement is making a decision on facts. But what if the facts are skewed? What if someone presents certain facts that a certain to give a certain judgement in either a negative or positive way?

I don't think its fair to compare your examples because the color of a dress (can be viewed by someone who doesn't have a color monitor, is color blind, etc.). Let's face it...we here at the TRF are always making opinions, statement and judgements without knowing all the facts. The Royal families around the world are going to tell us the basics and not the personal pertinent information that we (as royal watchers) are dying to know.

Here is my take on Carina....and I will admit I dont' follow her as frequently as I follow other royals.

Based on the pictures and facts alone, yes it does look shady that her sister's husband died and a couple of hours later she was smiling for the cameras at a banquet half way around the world.

But here's a couple of things I dont know. I don't know if she spoke to her sister before the tragedy (heck if she speaks to her sister on a regular). For all we know...she speaks to her sister everyday since the tragedy and her sister told her to just come to the funeral. And she might have an extended stay with her family following the funeral. Within the last year I recently loss one of my sisters (who was 38) to an unexpected death, yet even with that in mind, another one of my sisters and I aren't speaking over something that is totally STUPID. I am woman enough to admit its dumb and she is woman enough to admit that is stupid, but we wont' admit it to each other :) yet I do know that if my sister called me because of a unexpected illness and/or death, I would drop every thing in a second and be at her side. And I know she would do the same for me. But I don't know Carina or her relationship with her sister.

I do know if she shuns her family events because she likes the glitz and glamour of Gusav's life than she is pretty shallow and I don't have time for people like that. But if Gustav knows that and accepts that from her, who am I to judge? He knows what he has...he also knows that if the money, the castle and the title are gone if she is that shallow she could be gone tomorrow...but that is a chance he takes.

I said what I said about the inheirtance because I think the Aryan requirement frankly, is just shady, and I would say that it is shady no matter who is fighting it. Regardless of money, title, etc.

[NotAPretender]

Originally Posted by Zonk

Its a fine line honestly. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on what the two are.

Opinion to me is I don't like Carina because of X and Y. That is your opinion and someone might point out the errors of X and Y and you still hold that opinion. Someone once asked me their opinion of a singer and I said I did't like her...they said why...and I said you know...once I hit 40 I came of the opinion that I didn't have to have a specific reason I just don't like her. Personally if someone came out and said that didn't like Carina (or Mary, Maxima, Letizia, Camilla, etc.) because they just didn't, I would say okay. And it would be okay to me becase no matter what I say in her defence.....I really don't think their opinion will change?

To me Judgement is making a decision on facts. But what if the facts are skewed? What if someone presents certain facts that a certain to give a certain judgement in either a negative or positive way?

I don't think its fair to compare your examples because the color of a dress (can be viewed by someone who doesn't have a color monitor, is color blind, etc.). Let's face it...we here at the TRF are always making opinions, statement and judgements without knowing all the facts. The Royal families around the world are going to tell us the basics and not the personal pertinent information that we (as royal watchers) are dying to know.

Here is my take on Carina....and I will admit I dont' follow her as frequently as I follow other royals.

Based on the pictures and facts alone, yes it does look shady that her sister's husband died and a couple of hours later she was smiling for the cameras at a banquet half way around the world.

But here's a couple of things I dont know. I don't know if she spoke to her sister before the tragedy (heck if she speaks to her sister on a regular). For all we know...she speaks to her sister everyday since the tragedy and her sister told her to just come to the funeral. And she might have an extended stay with her family following the funeral. Within the last year I recently loss one of my sisters (who was 38) to an unexpected death, yet even with that in mind, another one of my sisters and I aren't speaking over something that is totally STUPID. I am woman enough to admit its dumb and she is woman enough to admit that is stupid, but we wont' admit it to each other :) yet I do know that if my sister called me because of a unexpected illness and/or death, I would drop every thing in a second and be at her side. And I know she would do the same for me. But I don't know Carina or her relationship with her sister.

I do know if she shuns her family events because she likes the glitz and glamour of Gusav's life than she is pretty shallow and I don't have time for people like that. ... (remainder snipped.)

OK. I'll buy that.

1. I'm really, really, really sorry for the loss of your sister. I can say with complete honesty that having two sisters means knowing that someone will always have your back, and that occasionally, something very small can cause a rift. But the best part about having a sister is knowing that the rift will mend.

2. Yeah, I know what you mean about being there when your sister needs you. My sister's husband died very suddenly, of complications of diabetes when she was 40 and he was 38; they had a (then) 10 year old son. It was dead of winter, I was in the upper Midwest, I was chief credit officer of a major US bank and also in a full-time MBA program. AND - my sister and I had been not communicating due to an issue about our parents. So yes, I do know what I would have done in Gustav's girlfriend's situation because I did something similar in my own sister's situation. My best friend came over and went through my Dayplanner and phoned everyone that I had appointments with or coursework with for the next two weeks to cancel while I packed and took a fairly complicated set of trains, planes and automobiles to get back to Virginia in the teeth of a winter storm. I would have crawled over broken glass through fire if my sister needed me. Even if she didn't say she needed me, I still would have shown up.

The funeral was yesterday in San Jose, by the way.

[Alison20]

I totally agree with NotAPretender on the matter of the Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleberg will. I won't rehearse the points, but the situation in the family has been clear since the will was written - and, looked at from the perspective of the War years, and the social climate then, it can be understood. I can't be too sorry for Pr Gustav or Carina, whose life is pretty good, and still would be if they married.

On the death of her (supposed) brother-in-law, I am not quite so ready to censor her. Firstly, we don't know how close she was to her sister. I know many people who, perhaps unfortunately, lose contact with family members that they are not close to. And this was a new brother-in-law that she had perhaps hardly met. It is not like the case of Pss Letizia of the Asturias, who lost a very dear sister to suicide. I wouldn't like to condemn Carina without knowing a lot more about the situation. As an aside, perhaps her sister felt the additional media coverage that her sister turning up would bring was just too much at that sad and scarey time. (Why, for heaven's sake was her husband killed by his step-father?) Other people's lives can be very different to our own. I would go to the other end of the world to help my only sister (well, she lives in Australia!), but my husband was not even informed of the death of his uncle (his late mother's dear sister's husband) until after the funeral by his aunt and cousins!! This was because they thought it was too far for him to travel and they didn't need him there because they knew that he loved and respected his uncle anyway. The fact that they totally misjudged my husband and my feelings (we would willingly have made a 500 mile journey with 2 young children), is not the point, I suppose. They thought they were doing the the right thing by us!

[lyndaW]

From what I gather on the above posts, Carina never did fly to California ??? Planes are flying now!

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by lyndaW

From what I gather on the above posts, Carina never did fly to California ??? Planes are flying now!

She may have flown, she may not have.
I don't think the Danish press concentrate on her flying activities.

[sgl]

Originally Posted by lumutqueen

She may have flown, she may not have.
I don't think the Danish press concentrate on her flying activities.

Well, since they've covered the story of her family tragedy, it would make sense for them to cover whether or not she flew to California to the funeral. It is part of the story, and I'm sure that many of the readers of the various publications in Denmark, Sweden, and Germany (the ones that have featured this story) would like to know.

[Muhler]

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #17, 2010.
Carina I sorg – Carina in mourning.
Written by John Lautrup.

Carina Axelsson was unable to get to her sister, Lislott Jones, who recently lost her husband.
Gustav Grüner, Princess Benedikte’s private secretary said: “Carina Axelsson is very sad but do not wish to make a statement. She considers the matter as being a completely private matter, which does not involve the DRF”.
He adds that Carina would have flown to USA had the ash cloud not prevented her.

Her brother-in-law (svoger), Richard Jones was murdered by his stepfather. The reason seems to be economic controversy.
Liselott Jones lost her first husband four years ago. He committed suicide. She has three girls aged eight months to five years.

[michelleq]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #17, 2010.
Carina I sorg – Carina in mourning.
Written by John Lautrup.

Carina Axelsson was unable to get to her sister, Lislott Jones, who recently lost her husband.
Gustav Grüner, Princess Benedikte’s private secretary said: “Carina Axelsson is very sad but do not wish to make a statement. She considers the matter as being a completely private matter, which does not involve the DRF”.
He adds that Carina would have flown to USA had the ash cloud not prevented her.

Her brother-in-law (svoger), Richard Jones was murdered by his stepfather. The reason seems to be economic controversy.
Liselott Jones lost her first husband four years ago. He committed suicide. She has three girls aged eight months to five years.

Okay, apparently enough people questioned her actions that Princess Benedikte's private secretary had to make a statement.

Well, any statement will do I guess....

[grevinnan]

Originally Posted by sgl

Well, since they've covered the story of her family tragedy, it would make sense for them to cover whether or not she flew to California to the funeral. It is part of the story, and I'm sure that many of the readers of the various publications in Denmark, Sweden, and Germany (the ones that have featured this story) would like to know.

Most readers would consider this her very private matter and would get no satisfaction of the discussions whether she travelled to her sister or not.

[Lumutqueen]

Carina has been invited with Prince Gustav to the Swedish wedding of Princess Victoria in June.

[sgl]

Originally Posted by grevinnan

Most readers would consider this her very private matter and would get no satisfaction of the discussions whether she travelled to her sister or not.

Yes I know; and I am one of those readers. I am shocked that this was allowed to be discussed without verification or statement of where the sources came from. My post was tongue-in-cheek. I hope that those publications that wrote about this story really verified their sources (and didn't just get them from reading message boards). They are private citizens who are simply trying to deal with a tragedy. It shouldn't have been publicized, IMO.