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  #61  
Old 04-20-2010, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
The victim's wife Mrs Jones is Liselott Axelsson, Carina's sister. Richard Jones was Carina's brother-in-law who was killed by his stepfather James Chimblis last Thursday, at the same day when was gala performance in Denmark.. Liselott and Richard have 3 children, the eldest girl from Liselott 's first marriage (her 1st husband also died tragically 4 years ago). Liselott has become widow again.

This is so horrible especially because of Carina's nieces. They are very young and the eldest girl have already lost her second father. I feel sorry for them. Condolence to the family. I hope Carina will able to go home to California for the funeral because of volcano ash.
Thank you for answering my question, Guido (and I'm really sorry that I called you by the wrong name in my previous post), but how do you know that her sister is married to this man? Where did you get that information? I don't recall ever seeing anything about her sister in the news before, and I have never read anything about her sister's name.

Not a Pretender-I'm curious about the information in the will; specifically, this part that you posted:
"which one could place as an interpretation looking back through a modern lens at it. It adheres to the language of the day, including the means by which property was expected to be held and distributed after a final Nazi victory".

Did it use this term "Nazi victory"? If it did, wouldn't that be grounds for having the will thrown out in court since we all know that there was no Nazi victory? Did it make any stipulations for a Nazi defeat? I am not a legal scholar, but I would think that if this was based on a Nazi victory, they might have a chance to throw it out (if they want to, that is).
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  #62  
Old 04-21-2010, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Unless one knows the specifics regarding the relationship between Carina and her sister (and her family) as a whole, aren't we pretty much speculating?

We don't know if she knew or not about the tragic circumstances of her brother in laws death...we don't why she didn't attending her neice's christening..we are just guessing and assuming the worst about hte personality of someone we don't know...or am I missing something?

Furthermore, it does appear that Gustav and Carina can marry but give up the title and fortune...but the question is why should they? Isn't it his birthright? I am not trying to malign anyone's heirtage or go off on a tangent...but I find the he must marry an Aryan to be a little off center and dare I say it...meanspiritied. Would this not be a problem if it wasn't Carina who he wanted to marry? Even if he loses this battle or Carina...I would think that this needs to be removed for future generations. Someone has to fight the battle...why not Gustav?
YES zonk he has to stop this he just has too! Even if it means giving up his true love. For his family name his line! His birth right ! His children's birthmark! Him and Carina can have kids latter or adopt but he has to marry if he can't fight the courts and provide a heir its his duty!
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  #63  
Old 04-21-2010, 09:13 AM
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YES zonk he has to stop this he just has too! Even if it means giving up his true love. For his family name his line! His birth right ! His children's birthmark! Him and Carina can have kids latter or adopt but he has to marry if he can't fight the courts and provide a heir its his duty!
If you read NotAPretenders response to Zonks comment you would see that it won't affect anyone after Gustav.

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He's the only person it affects, Zonk. His children or any other heirs beyond the direct heir to the grandfather are unaffected.
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  #64  
Old 04-21-2010, 10:53 AM
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Guido, you still haven't answered my question. How do you know that this man's wife is Carina's sister? There haven't been any names mentioned regarding the wife. Was her marriage in the news? Do you have that article?
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  #65  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:20 AM
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Can I just get this straight?
Carina has two sisters?
Both of whom are married, and both husbands have been killed recently?
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:06 PM
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If I understood it correctly, Ms. Axelsson has got a sister, who lost two husbands.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:58 PM
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How awful, that makes everything a million times worse. Now I don't understand why she hasn't flown home.
The only reason, if her and her sister no longer get along.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:07 PM
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She wouldn't be able to be with the Royal Family. She wouldn't be able to wear a Tiara.

I said it before, and I will say it again, she has become more Royal than the Princely Family she is attached to.
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  #69  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:14 PM
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She wouldn't be able to be with the Royal Family. She wouldn't be able to wear a Tiara.

I said it before, and I will say it again, she has become more Royal than the Princely Family she is attached to.
This is your apparent reason why she didn't go home? Because she would miss wearing a tiara, and attending royal events?

I don't agree with you last point, I don't know how a commoner can become more royal, than her royal blooded partner.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sgl View Post
Thank you for answering my question, Guido (and I'm really sorry that I called you by the wrong name in my previous post), but how do you know that her sister is married to this man? Where did you get that information? I don't recall ever seeing anything about her sister in the news before, and I have never read anything about her sister's name.

Not a Pretender-I'm curious about the information in the will; specifically, this part that you posted:
"which one could place as an interpretation looking back through a modern lens at it. It adheres to the language of the day, including the means by which property was expected to be held and distributed after a final Nazi victory".

Did it use this term "Nazi victory"? If it did, wouldn't that be grounds for having the will thrown out in court since we all know that there was no Nazi victory? Did it make any stipulations for a Nazi defeat? I am not a legal scholar, but I would think that if this was based on a Nazi victory, they might have a chance to throw it out (if they want to, that is).
I've not seen the will itself; the process in the German courts is for non-publication of contested wills until such time as they are finally adjudicated. My knowledge is based in my current position with an international accounting firm and my particular area of expertise in property, as well as my conversations with our legal teams in a similar case. In the instances in which I have seen the documents, no such phrase as "Nazi victory" is discussed. In fact, the word "Nazi" is not used, only "Aryan." It has been explained to me that there was no need for any such phrase, as the government was highly confident of the outcome of the war (although they were sadly disabused of that, come 1945.)

The fact is and remains that there is no birthright at all besides the name of Berleburg. Gustav's inheritance has always been conditional and subject to this will, from before his own birth. His father, Prince Richard, has enjoyed the benefits of this wealth since his birth in 1934, or for a solid 76 years. Gustav has (thoroughly) enjoyed the benefits of this wealth for 41 sumputous years. Combined, that's a hefty 117 years of wealth and luxury beyond what most could genuinely come to understand. And the one and only stipulation regarded one marriage - and that's been known for over seventy years!

If this many people have benefitted financially for this long (Richard, Benedikt, Alexandra, Gustav, and Nathalie) by this will, this wealth, this stipulation - then I think it's disingenous to say that the will is something dreadful.

And as many a dispossed former Royal or aristocrat can tell you - or honestly speaking anyone who has lost their home in the last two years in the international housing credit crises - one can know what it's like to lose financially due to no choice or fault of their own: one can survive it, and one can even thrive. If Gustav's life is so....bereft...that the lack of incredible wealth is a tragedy beyond belief, I just don't know what. It's not as though he'd be on the dole. And after all, his girlfriend is a published writer, isn't she? Employable, the pair of them.

Once again, this is 100% Gustav's choice. And it's a choice he's known about since he was old enough to understand what being called "Prince" really meant.

As to his girlfriend and her choices, well, that's another post
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  #71  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:52 PM
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This is your apparent reason why she didn't go home? Because she would miss wearing a tiara, and attending royal events?

I don't agree with you last point, I don't know how a commoner can become more royal, than her royal blooded partner.
I think that she has made her choice pretty clear. I was telling my husband about this last night, and this is what I outlined:

Situation 1:
A. My sister, a widow but now remarried, gives birth to her third child. I can go see her and the new baby and my nieces and my brother. It's a quiet family affair.

B. My boyfriend's cousin has a third child by his second wife. I can go to a baptism where we all get dressed up and wave at photographers.

What would be my choice? A. What was her choice? B.

Situation 2:
A. My sister has now been widowed for the second time. She and her three children have found the body of their father and husband, murdered by gunfire.

B. My boyfriend's aunt is throwing a big party and I already have my dress and jewelry.

What would be my choice? A. What was her choice? B.

---------

As to the "more Royal than royal," it's a figure of speech more than an actual statement of fact. It's analagous to a convert to a religion being more devout that someone having been born and raised into that religion.
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  #72  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:55 PM
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His children's birthmark! !
They use laser surgery for that now. No worries.
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  #73  
Old 04-21-2010, 02:54 PM
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Yes, that is the truth. Carina has one sister who has already lost two husbands.
You haven't answered my question. HOW do you know this? The news stories STILL haven't mentioned the wife's name. How do you know this is her in-laws? How do you know that her first husband died? Otherwise, this seems like gossip, IMO. Would you please tell us how you know this information?
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:14 PM
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Stepfather, adult son dead after apparent family dispute led to shooting off Highway 35 - Santa Cruz Sentinel

The picture of the sister, although not close up, doesn't look like Carina.
Plus the artcile says

Quote:
with three young children,
I thought they only had one child?
None of the articles mention a Liselotte Jones.

Guido, How do you know this article is about Carina's sister. I'm starting to wonder like sgl.
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  #75  
Old 04-21-2010, 03:59 PM
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The woman is Liselott, Carina's sister. Believe me, if she wasn't be her, I wouldn't post it. Richard and Liselott have 3 children what I wrote in previous post.
You're still not answering the question. WHERE did you get this information? How do you know this? Her family has never been covered in the news. What are your sources? HOW did you know that Carina's sister has been married twice? Citing sources makes this more credible.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:20 PM
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Their names are different from Carina's, that's why I am asking you how you have this information. Why can't you divulge your sources? It sounds suspicious and not very credible, IMO.

I don't know what type of phonebook you are looking at, but I've never seen a phonebook that lists maiden names and marital history.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:08 PM
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I don't think Carina is that heartless to not be with her family especially her sister and her neices/nephews after her second husband has past away. I just can't believe it, she doesn't seem like that.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:16 PM
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From this link: Royal News: August 2008

Quote:
August 7th
This week's Billed-Bladet carries an interview with Hereditary Prince Gustav zu Sayn-Wittgenstein and his girlfriend Carina Axelsson at Graasten castle on the occasion of the 40th birthday of Carina on 5 August. She said that it had been fun that the magazines so far thought that she was 6 years younger than Gustav, while in fact she is five months older. Her full name is Carina Lynn Axelsson, she grew up in Santa Cruz, California, USA, and is the eldest of three children of a Swedish father and a Mexican mother. The couple has been together for 6 years, and lives together at Berleburg castle since three years. They met at a dinner with friends in Germany. Carina said she has been warmly welcomed by Gustav's family
From Los Gatos High School where Carina went to school, there are 4 Axelsson's listed: Site Search - Los Gatos High School Alumni Association

If we go by the BB translation, we can rule Erik out since he graduated before Carina making him older. Since Carina is the eldest, the other two women could be her sibling: Kerry Axelsson and Liselot K. Jones.

They put Axelsson in () after Liselot's name since she uses her married name. So Kerry Axelsson's maiden name was Christiansen.

It's unclear if Kerry is related to Carina but definitely Erik and Liselot have the same last name - Axelsson - as Carina. Maybe the BB translation is wrong and Carina is one of three children, Erik being the eldest. Maybe he ended up marrying Kerry Christiansen but definitely Liselot K. Jones used to be Liselot Axelsson.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:23 PM
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On this LinkedIn page, Kerry Axelsson - LinkedIn
Kerry Axelsson is listed as having graduated from Los Gatos HS and is in the process of publishing a cookbook. Maybe Christiansen is her married name and the Los Gatos Alumni link made a mistake. She might be Carina's sister.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:25 PM
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Jones is a very common last name in the United States. The news stories that Guido have posted about this crime have not stated the name of the victim's wife. What I want to know is, how does anyone know that this is Carina's sister's husband? Did someone look up marriage records? How is it known that she is a widow from her first marriage? This seems like a lot of personal information that I'm sure the family wouldn't want discussed on a forum.
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