Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events & Discussion Part 2

[dbarn67]

I don't think the will can be turned over. I have a friend who's an attorney here in the U.S. and she said the wills are personal documents and most courts wont impose it's will on a personal family will. I suspect that most other country's courts would honor the original will as well.

If that is the case, I think Gustav should make an agreement with some other nobleborn woman to marry, have babies then divorce and live with Carina from there on. I'm sure there are women of his rank who'd do it for same or similar reasons. Heck in this day and age, he can find a lesbian and have IVF. It would certainly make a mockery of the existing will. I have a suspicion that many aristrocrat/royals are similar and that's why they all seem to marry each other.

[camelot23ca]

If getting married and/or having children is something that's important to Gustav and Carina then they should get married and/or have children. I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of the legal situation but sometimes people have to make choices in life that aren't entirely fair. Gustav's sisters aren't entitled to inherit the estate, (somehow the inherent unfairness of this doesn't seem to come up as much), and yet they've managed to carry on. I highly doubt Gustav, Carina or any of their potential children will starve no matter what happens with the estate.

My personal feeling is that they're either happy with the situation as is or one of them can't have children. I find it hard to believe that two educated people their age, with no medical issues and who actually want children would wait on the results of a legal fight to have them.

[Princess Luna]

I can`t belive this, its year 2011 and Prince Gustav can`t decide who he wanna marry I feel so sorry for him and Carina.

[Lenora]

From material and financial perspective it's a rather difficult matter,from the other side ,people(even actual royals) are no longer living in dark Middle Age.I think Gustav should have married a noble woman some years ago, before meeting Carina.The other ways are stupid,to marry for reason,to make kids and then divorce-a complete nonsense,even he'll find a noble woman who will be enough greedy to accept it,it will be a total catastrophe in his life,he could lose Carina forever or she may not accept to destroy the supposed children' childhood and apparent happiness.Gustav should resign and decide now,otherwise it could be too late ,he should remember some members of Windsor dynasty,who left or were ready to leave all the privileges for love and that was in far more years ago.
I guess many aristocrats marry in their late thirties or forties only because of such matters ,when they grow enough to be masters of their own life.
It's just ridiculous!

[Charlotte_Aster]

Originally Posted by dbarn67

I don't think the will can be turned over. I have a friend who's an attorney here in the U.S. and she said the wills are personal documents and most courts wont impose it's will on a personal family will. I suspect that most other country's courts would honor the original will as well.

Actually in Germany it's a bit different. Even if you are written out of the will, you can contest it (if you are a blood relative that is) and you are given a certain percentage of the inherited amount determined by the law.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Princess Luna

How old is Carina?

She will turn 43 tomorrow, Friday.

[NotAPretender]

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster

Actually in Germany it's a bit different. Even if you are written out of the will, you can contest it (if you are a blood relative that is) and you are given a certain percentage of the inherited amount determined by the law.

However, as case law shows in similar situations in Germany Heads of Household/House law can place restrictions on inheritance based on behaviour. This has been upheld in similar situations to this one, as has been covered previously in this thread and in the first thread.

I don't think I can muster up sympathy for either. It's a mercenary decision on their parts. They like how it is and choose to live without marriage but with money. What's to feel pity for?

Originally Posted by Princess Luna

I can`t belive this, its year 2011 and Prince Gustav can`t decide who he wanna marry I feel so sorry for him and Carina.

Yes, he can, Luna. He can marry her today, tomorrow, whenever he wishes. He chooses not to.

This thread and the previous one have covered this exhaustively, and the fact remains that Gustav can marry whomever he chooses, whenever he chooses.

[Kasumi]

I do not feel compassion for Carina anymore, because of her most unkind words about the parents of Prince Gustav, especially about such sweet lady as Princess Benedicte.

[sjetajiem]

Originally Posted by Kasumi

I do not feel compassion for Carina anymore, because of her most unkind words about the parents of Prince Gustav, especially about such sweet lady as Princess Benedicte.

Do I miss something?
I never heard about unkind comments to the parents in law?
Looking at the pics I have the impression that the relation between mother and daughter in law is OK.

[Kasumi]

Originally Posted by sjetajiem

Do I miss something?
I never heard about unkind comments to the parents in law?
...

It's all contained in the prior thread, sjetajiem.
They are not 'parents-in-law', since there was no marriage registered.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by sjetajiem

Do I miss something?
I never heard about unkind comments to the parents in law?
Looking at the pics I have the impression that the relation between mother and daughter in law is OK.

If I remember correctly she gave an interview with a couple of remarks about Prince Richard that, IMO, weren't unkind but were, let's say, more honest than usual for that sort of interview. Given the similarly direct remarks Richard himself has made about the Danish royals in the past, it's hard to see him as a victim.
I don't have the interview in front of me but I believe Carina was quite complimentary towards Princess Benedickte.

[princess gertrude]

The whole situation with these two is really odd and is going to lead to nothing but a mess and heartache for someone. But it's their lives and if they're happy right now then more power to them, I just can't see this ending anything but badly for someone, probably Carina.

[NotAPretender]

The interview is found earlier in the thread. And there wasn't a kind word about anyone.

They have made a decision that this is what they want and how they want it. Why is there such an insistence that they marry? It picks no one's pocket that the money will go to a cousin rather than a son.

I genuinely believe that the "protesting the will" idea has long been left by the wayside as they have zero chance of success. This is exactly who they are and what they are.

[Kataryn]

I was not aware that in German law you could make stipulations that are holding up several generations down. Two generations, yes, if you skip one generation. You can say: all goes to one child. My eldest son does not inherit, but if he has a son and this son either fulfills the necessary requirements or does not do things I explicitely forbid, then he inherits and keeps it.

But he cannot force this heir to live according to house rules. These house rules are not longer legally binding if they are not accepted by the living members of a noble house. So of course Richard together with Gustav (who is the owner of the castle as long as he does not forfeit this right through the wrong marriage, I think) can decide that they don't accept the house laws. And Gustav, as he is legally the owner, can decide to name his sister and her children as his heirs. According to German law, this could even be the "important reason" needed to change the name of the children from "Graf Pfeil" (? Is that correct?) to their mother's name of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg.

At least that was what I heard when a friend of my mother-in-law inquired at a lawyer how she could protect part of her inhertance from her daughter and give it to the grand-child directly on condition that this grand-child does keep the estate and take care for the daughter (his mother) as long as she lives. She was told that she can't make those stipulation for the heir of her heir in case the grandson died before his mother who in that case would be the heiress of her son if he had no own children or wasn't married. The only way to protect the estate in any case was turning it into a family foundation with rules about who profited from it as long as the foundation was valid but she didn't do it. Back to Gutsav: I don't think the Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg estates are a family foundation as well ( as eg is the family foundation of the Wittelsbach, which grants male descendants much greater support than the princesses which is unjust but obviously legal).

[NotAPretender]

Then you seem to have struck on a solution, Kataryn, that the S-W-B's do not wish to avail themselves of. Similarly, there was an opportunity for the couple to marry religiously and via adoption of her children by him, have inheritance rights; Jo of Palentine brought that up.

We don't know exactly what was in that will that makes it so impenetrable, nor the House laws.

So there are some solutions such as yours, Kataryn, but yet they are (seeming to be) taking the harder route of direct strike-down of the will.

It seems that they don't want a solution, then.

Originally Posted by Kataryn

Back to Gutsav: I don't think the Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg estates are a family foundation as well ( as eg is the family foundation of the Wittelsbach, which grants male descendants much greater support than the princesses which is unjust but obviously legal).

Just want you to know how much I agree with what you wrote! How much simpler if Gustav's sisters could inherit, as Alexandra married equally and has legitimate children!

[Princess Luna]

Originally Posted by NotAPretender

However, as case law shows in similar situations in Germany Heads of Household/House law can place restrictions on inheritance based on behaviour. This has been upheld in similar situations to this one, as has been covered previously in this thread and in the first thread.

I don't think I can muster up sympathy for either. It's a mercenary decision on their parts. They like how it is and choose to live without marriage but with money. What's to feel pity for?



Yes, he can, Luna. He can marry her today, tomorrow, whenever he wishes. He chooses not to.

This thread and the previous one have covered this exhaustively, and the fact remains that Gustav can marry whomever he chooses, whenever he chooses.

I thought he couldn`t marry, because of his grandfather`s will ?

[Vesper1987]

Gustav can marry anyone he likes, he has free will to do whatever he likes but if he wants to hold on to the House of Berleburg he has to marry a noble woman. I agree with Camelot23ca, there are many things in life that are unfair but people have to suck it up and deal with it.

My opinion is if they are happy to just live together more power to them but I it's hard to feel sorry for people who can get married at anytime they want to but don't just to hold on to an inheritance. Carina in my opinon knew what she got herself into so if she is happy playing princess and being Gustav's partner forever than I hope they are very happy together.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Vesper1987

Gustav can marry anyone he likes, he has free will to do whatever he likes but if he wants to hold on to the House of Berleburg he has to marry a noble woman. I agree with Camelot23ca, there are many things in life that are unfair but people have to suck it up and deal with it.

My opinion is if they are happy to just live together more power to them but I it's hard to feel sorry for people who can get married at anytime they want to but don't just to hold on to an inheritance. Carina in my opinon knew what she got herself into so if she is happy playing princess and being Gustav's partner forever than I hope they are very happy together.

Eh, let's turn that one around.

- "We are in love, let's get married. Okay, that means I lose my estate and a huge fortune, and our children will never inherit said estate and a huge fortune. They'll have to settle for something less but at least we got married".
That sounds a little bit selfish in my eyes.

[efraimsdotter]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

But he cannot force this heir to live according to house rules. These house rules are not longer legally binding if they are not accepted by the living members of a noble house.

I think I read once that Gustav's uncle insists that house rules be followed. That if the entire family had agreed upon it, Gustav could have kept the estate and still married Carina. The will in itself is horrible, but was written in another era. What makes me sick, though, is that someone in this time and age insists that it should be followed.

[Princess Luna]

Originally Posted by efraimsdotter

I think I read once that Gustav's uncle insists that house rules be followed. That if the entire family had agreed upon it, Gustav could have kept the estate and still married Carina. The will in itself is horrible, but was written in another era. What makes me sick, though, is that someone in this time and age insists that it should be followed.

Yes is terrible