New titles for Queen Margrethe's descendants

**Stefan** · #1 04-30-2008, 09:40 AM

Queen Margrethe II. has given her children, children-in-law and grandchildren the addtitional title Count/Countess(Komtesse de Monpezat from today. The Title will be heriditary in the male line

Kongehuset - Aktuelt - Nyheder

**norwegianne** · #2 04-30-2008, 09:52 AM

Interesting news. Thank you, Stefan.

Definitely a nice touch for Prince Henrik. Something akin to the Mountbatten-Windsor in the UK.

So, it will be
Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark, Count of Monpezat;
Crown Princess Mary of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat;
Prince Christian of Denmark, Count of Montpezat;
Princess Isabella of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat;
Prince Joachim of Denmark, Count of Montpezat;
[Princess Marie of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat]
Prince Nikolai of Denmark, Count of Monpezat
Prince Felix of Denmark, Count of Monpezat.

It will be hereditary for any child born within a legal marriage.

As female descendants get the Danish title Komtesse on their own, (Prinsesse Isabella til Danmark, Komtesse af Monpezat) whereas the spouses get grevinde by way of their husband's title (EG. Prinsesse Marie af Danmark, grevinde af Monpezat)- is there such a distrinction in English?

I'm a bit uncertain as to whether it would be tied-in with the title Prince of Denmark, and whether or not the "legal marriage" would need to have the permission of the monarch for the title to continue, or if it could be a supplement to the Counts of Rosenborg...

Madame Royale · #3 04-30-2008, 10:10 AM

Now this is something truly splendid.

**norwegianne** · #4 04-30-2008, 10:21 AM

"The Queen and the Prince Consort have considered this for quite some time, and it has led to the belief that it was the right thing to do," Cabinet secretary Henning Fode.

Monpezat til Frederik og Joachim - Danmark

**Empress** · #5 04-30-2008, 10:29 AM

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

morhange · #6 04-30-2008, 10:34 AM

Perhaps it is like Count of Rosenberg? Or maybe the title that Nikolai & Felix's children will use, similar to the Dutch Royal Family. For example, say Nikolai has a son (we'll call him Joachim :p ) so his son's title might be

His Excellency Count Joachim of Monpezat

Or something to that effect. Is Count of Rosenberg only given in the event of a morganatic marriage? Seeing as now Denmark has a "commoner" Crown Princess, and former and future commoner princesses, perhaps that title will not be used so much anymore. And probably Joachim and Marie's children will be Princes or Princesses. Why not!

I think Komtesse/Grevinde depend on who has the title, just like the til/af Danmark. Isabella is a born member of the DRF, while Mary is just a spouse of the Crown Prince. Isabella holds the title as a Countess by birth, while her mother holds it as a Countess by marriage. I'm not an expert in Danish language or titles, but I think this is correct.

msleiman · #7 04-30-2008, 10:49 AM

So Mary hold the title wife of a count. While Isabella hold the title countess?

betina · #8 04-30-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

No there is not. A countess is married to af count while a Komtesse is a daughter of a Count and countess.
I havent yet found a english word for Komtesse yet but I think the most proper one would be Lady.

And for the last question yes they will. Their future children will be HH like their two halfbrothers. They are in line to the throne too.

Paty · #9 04-30-2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne

As female descendants get the Danish title Komtesse on their own, (Prinsesse Isabella til Danmark, Komtesse af Monpezat) whereas the spouses get grevinde by way of their husband's title (EG. Prinsesse Marie af Danmark, grevinde af Monpezat)- is there such a distrinction in English?

So... Princess Mary and future Princess Marie are Grevinde af Monpezat.?
And other thing...in The Press Release the is nothing about Nikolai and Felix!

And why of Monpezat? I know that Prince Consort is Count on Monpezat, but is the Queen in the right to give that title to his children?

msleiman · #10 04-30-2008, 12:33 PM

Count of Monpezat is a Fench Title, not a Danish one right?

**Marengo** · #11 04-30-2008, 01:20 PM

It was a french title (or not a title at all, as the count-claims for Hendrik are shady) but with Queen Margrethe's decision it became a Danish title now.

**Stefan** · #12 04-30-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

They will as the Queen has given their Consent to the marriage in the Council of State as required in the succession law.
The Komtesse is for unmarried daughters to a certain age (not sure which one). The daughters of Lennart Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg where also called Komtesse Diana, Komtesse Bettina etc. until they reached a certain age.

**GlitteringTiaras** · #13 04-30-2008, 01:47 PM

Huh

Interesting...Monpezat French now Danish.

Oh well you can read more about it here and here

**norwegianne** · #14 04-30-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msleiman

So Mary hold the title wife of a count. While Isabella hold the title countess?

Essentially, yes. There is a difference in Danish, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paty

So... Princess Mary and future Princess Marie are Grevinde af Monpezat.?
And other thing...in The Press Release the is nothing about Nikolai and Felix!

Nikolai and Felix are covered by Prince Joachim's title as Christian and Isabella are by their father's.

They are mentioned in the article from Politiken posted by GlitteringTiaras: Frederik og Joachim bliver grever - Politiken.dk
[quote=Paty;760345]And why of Monpezat? I know that Prince Consort is Count on Monpezat, but is the Queen in the right to give that title to his children?
It's not his title (or lack of it) she's passing on, but she's using his surname to create a new title for his descendants. As the title Count of Rosenborg was initially created by using a place-name (Rosenborg Palace) that had connection to the Danish royals, she has chosen to use a surname that has connection to Prince Henrik's descendants, and give them a title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

They will as the Queen has given their Consent to the marriage in the Council of State as required in the succession law.
The Komtesse is for unmarried daughters to a certain age (not sure which one). The daughters of Lennart Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg where also called Komtesse Diana, Komtesse Bettina etc. until they reached a certain age.

Komtesse is actually used in Denmark even after marriage, and also as adults. (kvinder.bt.dk: Vi kan ikke være alene article about Komtesse Camilla and Komtesse Josephine of Rosenborg)

**GlitteringTiaras** · #15 04-30-2008, 04:01 PM

I have to ask this: But why this? Why now? Why the French last name (and supposed legit title which make be fake) all of a sudden Danish? Let's get real here, Monpezat does not sound Danish; in fact Garcia sounds more Danish than Monpezat.

Honestly, it makes no sense to me. Does this ultimately have to do with Henrik (and his supposed lack of respect he's felt since joining the DRF) and possibly (distantly) Marie... I mean just a little bit? What it all boils down to is why? Why do they need more titles or title?

I don't understand this at all . Sure it's a nice gesture on the Queen behalf, but in all it's just so... bizarre.

Aren't there more pressing issues to deal with in Denmark then making up/adding more titles? I mean this in a polite manner, by the way.

**Empress** · #16 04-30-2008, 04:07 PM

Well it seems to me that the word Komtesse is easily translated to Countess, while Grevinde is also translated to Countess, but perhaps in different degrees? I can not imagine that Komtesse means Lady, as it seems like a direct aliteration to the French comtesse and grevinde seems to have some correlation to the duch Gravin which is countess.

**norwegianne** · #17 04-30-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

I have to ask this: But why this? Why now? Why the French last name (and supposed legit title which make be fake) all of a sudden Danish? Let's get real here, Monpezat does not sound Danish; in fact Garcia sounds more Danish than Monpezat.

Honestly, it makes no sense to me. Does this ultimately have to do with Henrik (and his supposed lack of respect he's felt since joining the DRF) and possibly (distantly) Marie... I mean just a little bit? What it all boils down to is why? Why do they need more titles or title?

I don't understand this at all . Sure it's a nice gesture on the Queen behalf, but in all it's just so... bizarre.

Aren't there more pressing issues to deal with in Denmark then making up/adding more titles? I mean this in a polite manner, by the way.

Probably a way to resolve it before Joachim and Marie decide to have children - (morbidly, maybe also before either the Prince Consort or the Queen passes away?).

One of the articles had a quote saying that this was a decision that they had thought about for a while; and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they had been working on something like this since Prince Henrik's little outburst some years ago.

Or it could be a way for Margrethe to begin collecting titles for her descendants; like the ones she didn't take up when she succeeded her father: King/Queen of Denmark, the Wends and the Goths, Duke/Duchess of Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn, Dithmarschen, Lauenburg and Oldenburg

**GlitteringTiaras** · #18 04-30-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

One of the articles had a quote saying that this was a decision that they had thought about for a while; and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they had been working on something like this since Prince Henrik's little outburst some years ago.

That was my inital reaction along with the notion that Joachim is a professed Francophile. This has definitely pleased the Prince Consort, but it seems soooo, like I said previously, this is bizarre. And may I say, this is my useless opinion, pointless. It just seems like another, among the hundreds, sticker on some hippie bus in San Fran (sorry I couldn't think of anything else.

)

Well, there's not much one can say nor dispute it. What's done is done no matter how strange it is.

crm2317 · #19 04-30-2008, 05:16 PM

Ok please have patience with me while I ask some questions

Will the title be hereditary only in the male line? For example through the sons of Christian, Isabella, Nikolai and Felix? Or will it be similar to the dutch family? Where Christian's children are Princes and Princesses while their cousins are Counts and Countesses?

I think it is a lovely idea