New titles for Queen Margrethe's descendants

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by crm2317

Ok please have patience with me while I ask some questions

Will the title be hereditary only in the male line? For example through the sons of Christian, Isabella, Nikolai and Felix? Or will it be similar to the dutch family? Where Christian's children are Princes and Princesses while their cousins are Counts and Countesses?

As far as I've understood it, from the press release and subsequent news articles - the title will be passed on to descendants born in legal marriages, according to the current rules. The title "Count of Monpezat" will be continued by the male descendants, whereas the females will be given the title "countess of Monpezat"

Given that Isabella is not male, she will not bring the title with her to her children, I would suppose. It might be that she will, as Camilla of Rosenborg did with her suffix, use "of Monpezat" for her children, but that's purely guessing.

No official comment as to your last question has been made, and until such a point, we can only assume that like with existing precedent in the Danish royal family - the children of Prince Nikolai and Prince Felix (and any other males with the title Prince of Denmark) will also be Prince/Princesses of Denmark. It only dies out when permission isn't given for a marriage, or there are only daughters.

[crm2317]

Originally Posted by norwegianne

As far as I've understood it, from the press release and subsequent news articles - the title will be passed on to descendants born in legal marriages, according to the current rules. The title "Count of Monpezat" will be continued by the male descendants, whereas the females will be given the title "countess of Monpezat"

Given that Isabella is not male, she will not bring the title with her to her children, I would suppose. It might be that she will, as Camilla of Rosenborg did with her suffix, use "of Monpezat" for her children, but that's purely guessing.

No official comment as to your last question has been made, and until such a point, we can only assume that like with existing precedent in the Danish royal family - the children of Prince Nikolai and Prince Felix (and any other males with the title Prince of Denmark) will also be Prince/Princesses of Denmark. It only dies out when permission isn't given for a marriage, or there are only daughters.

Thanks so much for your answer Norwegianne! I guess if they chose not to comment further we will just have to wait for the next generation and see which titles the receive

[Adamari]

It does not seem fair to me that this new title can only be inherited through the male line, that it cannot be passed on through the female line. That hardly seems appropriate in the 21st century.

[HRH Kerry]

Now if this has been in the works for time, then my only guess as to the why is to appease him. How did HRH, The Duke of Edinburgh put it? That he was just an amoeba?

[Empress]

Originally Posted by norwegianne

Or it could be a way for Margrethe to begin collecting titles for her descendants; like the ones she didn't take up when she succeeded her father: King/Queen of Denmark, the Wends and the Goths, Duke/Duchess of Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn, Dithmarschen, Lauenburg and Oldenburg

Err... why did she not take up all of her fathers titles? So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

[morhange]

The way I understand it, Margrethe chose not to accept the titles.

And I don't find the fact that Isabella not passing the title on to her children strange. When she gets married, she will take her husband's name (though still be HRH Princess Isabella, I'm sure) and her children have their father's name. Perhaps Frederik will change that, but there's never been a case like this before, I dont' think, since Danish princesses have, so far, married other royals/nobles.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Adamari

It does not seem fair to me that this new title can only be inherited through the male line, that it cannot be passed on through the female line. That hardly seems appropriate in the 21st century.

That's the way the nobility work's in most countries. Also in Denmark. And Margrethe made no exception for her own descendants. It would be strange if her granddaughter could pass her title to her descendants and the daugters of other danish Counts can not.

Originally Posted by morhange

The way I understand it, Margrethe chose not to accept the titles.

And I don't find the fact that Isabella not passing the title on to her children strange. When she gets married, she will take her husband's name (though still be HRH Princess Isabella, I'm sure) and her children have their father's name. Perhaps Frederik will change that, but there's never been a case like this before, I dont' think, since Danish princesses have, so far, married other royals/nobles.

She could probably give her children the surname af Monpezat the same way how Countesses Camilla of Rosenborg children are named af Rosensborg without the title.

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by Empress

So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

Her only title is actually HM the Queen of Denmark, as Prince Henrik gave up his name and title when they were married. This new creation of titles is not given to Prince Henrik, who remains Prince Henrik of Denmark.

[betina]

Originally Posted by Empress

Err... why did she not take up all of her fathers titles? So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

She coulnt take his fathers titles because they dont have female inheritance in these states :-) and futhermore they are not part of Denmark anymore

[HRH Kerry]

Interesting. I just thought that she would automatically because she was the monarch.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Empress

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

It's the Germanic system - it has a different title for an unmarried daughter and for the wife of an aristocrat. Though today it's not longer in use in Germany, where former titles are part of the name. So there is only a male and a female form.

It used to be "Herzogin" for the wife of a Herzog (duke) and "Fürstin" for the wife of a Fürst (prince) but "Prinzessin" for the daughters of either Herzog or Fürst, the wife of a Graf (Count) was "Gräfin" while the daughter was a Komtesse and "Baronin" for the wife of the Baron and "Baroness" for the daughter. In addition there was the title "Freiherr" for Baron, whose wife was the "Freifrau" and the daughter was the "Freiin".

Same system obviously in Scandinavia.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

It's the Germanic system - it has a different title for an unmarried daughter and for the wife of an aristocrat. Though today it's not longer in use in Germany, where former titles are part of the name. So there is only a male and a female form.

It used to be "Herzogin" for the wife of a Herzog (duke) and "Fürstin" for the wife of a Fürst (prince) but "Prinzessin" for the daughters of either Herzog or Fürst, the wife of a Graf (Count) was "Gräfin" while the daughter was a Komtesse and "Baronin" for the wife of the Baron and "Baroness" for the daughter. In addition there was the title "Freiherr" for Baron, whose wife was the "Freifrau" and the daughter was the "Freiin".

Same system obviously in Scandinavia.

At last the bernadottes have used the Komtesse for the daughters of Count Lennart.
It's not always the case that children of a Fürst ar Princes or Countes. For example in the bavarian Family wrede all membes of the Family bear the Title Fürst/Fürstin.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by norwegianne

Her only title is actually HM the Queen of Denmark, as Prince Henrik gave up his name and title when they were married. This new creation of titles is not given to Prince Henrik, who remains Prince Henrik of Denmark.

Maybe it's similar to the British queen deciding on Mountbatten-Windsor for her descendants who are not prince/princess. As the Danish Royal family has no family name (see the problem with the Greek exiled Royals who have no family name either, as they were of Danish descent) they now have the "af Monpezat"-title. In fact if Henri de Laborde de Monpezat hadn't married a (then future) queen, his sons would both be Comte de Laborde de Monpezat. So it makes sense to give their father's name to them as an additional Danish title.

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

I don't understand this at all . Sure it's a nice gesture on the Queen behalf, but in all it's just so... bizarre. Aren't there more pressing issues to deal with in Denmark then making up/adding more titles? I mean this in a polite manner, by the way.

I would very much have liked an explanation as well. It does seem rather bizarre....I am puzzeled

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Stefan

At last the bernadottes have used the Komtesse for the daughters of Count Lennart.
It's not always the case that children of a Fürst ar Princes or Countes. For example in the bavarian Family wrede all membes of the Family bear the Title Fürst/Fürstin.

Count Lennart was not a German Count but his title was a creation of the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg. Probably the use of "Komtesse" came from there.

The Wredes used the old system at least till 1918. And I found family trees of the Habsburg where Archduchess Anna Gabriele is written in as born a "Prinzessin von Wrede" - which is the old way it was done in the German monarchies. But of course nowadays the daughters of Barons and Counts take the female form of the family name. While I know quite some princely Houses who insist on the "Prinzessin"-style for the daughters. EG. Sayn, Oettingen, Hohenlohe, Leiningen....

[Empress]

Originally Posted by betina

She coulnt take his fathers titles because they dont have female inheritance in these states :-) and futhermore they are not part of Denmark anymore

Well that's not entirely true as she did become Queen.

[betina]

Originally Posted by Empress

Well that's not entirely true as she did become Queen.

I was not talking about the queen of Denmark title but the Ditmarsken, Schleswig-Holstein and so on

[princess leonor]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I didn't know where else to post it: Appretnly the Queen has given both her sons a new title. Both of them get the title Count of Montpezat and their spouses will (naturally) get the titles Countes of Montpezat. It seems a bit strange to me that both princes would get the same title, but maybe that's a common thing in Denmark? Anyway, you can read the article here, it's from Hola:
LOS PRÍNCIPES FEDERICO Y JOAQUÍN DE DINAMARCA ESTRENAN UN NUEVO TÍTULO

[Leslie2006]

Originally Posted by Empress

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd.

Not really. It was that way in Imperial Russia---a married grand duchess had a different title in Russian than an unmarried grand duchess, but the English translation is the same for both: Grand Duchess of Russia.