New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
My question is , will the Danish Royal House continue to be of the line of Glücksburg because the Prince Consort is French?
I think it´s safe to say that the DRF will continue to be Glücksborg, because you are always sure of the child´s mother, but not the father ;)
 
Maybe Mary would rather be Monpezat than Glucksberg, etc Maybe she likes the French connection.
 
Maybe Mary would rather be Monpezat than Glucksberg, etc Maybe she likes the French connection.
Can't see why it would matter what she thinks since she will never be the monarch. Anyway, its not like she will ever use a surname since she will go from being HRH Crown Princess Mary of Denmark to HM Queen Mary of Denmark, assuming she stays married to Frederik and Denmark remains a monarchy.
 
Last edited:
Titles

I do realise this is an old thread bur I'm new here so bear with me as I confuse matters more. :)

When Danish royal titles are translated into English it will be Prince/esse of Denmark. This is not incorrect but in Danish we use 2 different prepositions depending on the person's place in the line of succession.
Frederik is Crown Prince to Denmark ('to' because the throne will most likely be his one day)
Mary is Crown Princess of Denmark ('of' in her case because she came by the title by marriage)
More examples:
The Duke of Edinborough is also Prince of Denmark (he is the decendant of a Danish king but no longer in the line of succesion).
Interestingly Joachim's and Marie's children are no longer 'to' but 'of' Denmark.
People are speculating that Nikolaj and Felix will inherit their mother's title and be counts of Rosenborg. Or their future spouses will be Countesses of Rosenborg. This is purely specuation!
Nikolaj, Felix, Henrik and Athena are still in the line of succession but it will take a tragedy of epic proportions for either of them to take the throne and maybe that's why they are 'of' rather than 'to' Denmark.
 
:previous: Congratulations on your first posts and welcome. :)

A minor correction though. Both Athena and bette Henrik are to Denmark. As they are both in the Line of Succession. - Just to be sure I checked the DRF website.
 
That's not necessarily so. Prince Philip may have been impoverished but he was nonetheless a Prince of Greece and Denmark. Not only did they make him renounce his title and his nationality and gave him the empty title of Duke of Edinburgh. His blood was just as royal as Elizabeth's and they didn't even make him Prince Consort which Margrethe husband Henrik was.


Plus Margarethe II. of Denmark gave her sons and all their children the title of Greve/Grevinde af Monpezat as a personal title. As she used "Grevinde" for her granddaughters, she made that clear - as daughter of a count they would have been komtesse af Monpezat. As Denmark knows Countesses in their own right who may leave their title to their sons, I guess that means that these granddaughters of the souverain have indeed titles ror their children to inherit.
 
Plus Margarethe II. of Denmark gave her sons and all their children the title of Greve/Grevinde af Monpezat as a personal title. As she used "Grevinde" for her granddaughters, she made that clear - as daughter of a count they would have been komtesse af Monpezat. As Denmark knows Countesses in their own right who may leave their title to their sons, I guess that means that these granddaughters of the souverain have indeed titles ror their children to inherit.
While no longer about Jack's title... According to kongehuset.dk Margrethe's granddaughters are 'komtesse', her daughters-in-law are 'grevinde'. I haven't seen any evidence that the Monpezat title is hereditary in female line.
 
Plus Margarethe II. of Denmark gave her sons and all their children the title of Greve/Grevinde af Monpezat as a personal title. As she used "Grevinde" for her granddaughters, she made that clear - as daughter of a count they would have been komtesse af Monpezat. As Denmark knows Countesses in their own right who may leave their title to their sons, I guess that means that these granddaughters of the souverain have indeed titles ror their children to inherit.

As far as I understand it, the Monpezat-title is only hereditary for descendants in the male-line. (And I really think that that's ridicoulus, especially considering how often Henrik complained about his sexist and unfair title (e.g. not being called a king). While I think that he had a point there, it seems rather childish and illogical to me to complain about that and issue such dated discriminatory titles a little later.)
 
As far as I understand it, the Monpezat-title is only hereditary for descendants in the male-line. (And I really think that that's ridicoulus, especially considering how often Henrik complained about his sexist and unfair title (e.g. not being called a king). While I think that he had a point there, it seems rather childish and illogical to me to complain about that and issue such dated discriminatory titles a little later.)


A unmarried Grevinde is a countess in her own right while the unmarried daughter of a Count is a komtesse. Officially, Isabella, Josephine and Athena are "Grevinde af Monpezat", thus the title is theirs in their own right and they can leave it to their children. AFAIK - I will look it up, so we can be sure.


So, just checked it. There is no official announcement, just a press notice from 2008, but on the Danish page of the Royal House of denmark, Isabella is named as Princess of Denmark and komtesse af Monpezat, meaning she only helds this title as the daughter of a count, while her brothers are Counts in their own right. So - no titles for Isabella's and the other girls' children.
 
Last edited:
Plus Margarethe II. of Denmark gave her sons and all their children the title of Greve/Grevinde af Monpezat as a personal title. As she used "Grevinde" for her granddaughters, she made that clear - as daughter of a count they would have been komtesse af Monpezat. As Denmark knows Countesses in their own right who may leave their title to their sons, I guess that means that these granddaughters of the souverain have indeed titles ror their children to inherit.

Queen Margrethe only did that because it was discovered that the Monpezat comital title was an assumed one and that even the family´s noble status rested on shaky ground. As it happened it turned out to be perfectly timed with her husband becoming more outspoken about his feelings about his royal title. In a way, to me, it seems this was a Danish version of the British declaration regarding the name Mountbatten-Windsor. A way to assure Prince Henrik that his name would live on in the royal family.
 
Moved the discussion from the Jack's Brooksbank thread.

A unmarried Grevinde is a countess in her own right while the unmarried daughter of a Count is a komtesse. Officially, Isabella, Josephine and Athena are "Grevinde af Monpezat", thus the title is theirs in their own right and they can leave it to their children. AFAIK - I will look it up, so we can be sure.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I looked it up on their official website and they are comtesse not grevinde! So, just daughters of a count of Monpezat.

As apparently you aren't convinced that they use the correct titles on their official website :flowers: I found the official press release. It explains that male descendants will be 'greve', their wives 'grevinde' and female descendants will carry the title 'komtesse', including the example of Henrik's than only granddaughter Isabella. It's noteworthy that they used a different word for the male descendants (who will contine the title) vs female descendants (who will only 'carry' the title). It also references acfording to the current regulations. I wonder whether that was added to make sure that if Denmark at some point makes nobility titles herdeitary in both male and female, this would also apply to this title. Another requirement for passing on the title is a lawful marriage.
 
It also references acfording to the current regulations. I wonder whether that was added to make sure that if Denmark at some point makes nobility titles herdeitary in both male and female, this would also apply to this title. Another requirement for passing on the title is a lawful marriage.

So at the moment Danish nobility titles are never hereditary in the female line?
Would it have been possible for Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik to make the Monpezat title herederitary regardless of gender despite that costum?
 
Queen Margrethe only did that because it was discovered that the Monpezat comital title was an assumed one and that even the family´s noble status rested on shaky ground. As it happened it turned out to be perfectly timed with her husband becoming more outspoken about his feelings about his royal title. In a way, to me, it seems this was a Danish version of the British declaration regarding the name Mountbatten-Windsor. A way to assure Prince Henrik that his name would live on in the royal family.

I have always seen this as the Danish version of the Dutch example (graaf / gravin Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg) to distinguish the main line which will procreate as HRH Prince/Princess of Denmark (Margrethe - Frederik - Christian) from the junior lines which will procreate in the comital family de Monpezat. Very much alike the comital family of Rosenborg.
 
Last edited:
I have always seen this as the Danish version of the Dutch example (graaf / gravin Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg) to distinguish the main line which will procreate as HRH Prince/Princess of Denmark (Margrethe - Frederik - Christian) from the junior lines which will procreate in the comital family de Monpezat. Very much alike the comital family of Rosenborg.


But Christian is also a "greve af Monpezat" as will be his sons. We don't know yet if Joachim's grandchildren in male line will also be princes/princesses or just counts/countesses of Monpezat.
 
Jack Brooksbank: Is there a Title in his future?

I have always seen this as the Danish version of the Dutch example (graaf / gravin Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg) to distinguish the main line which will procreate as HRH Prince/Princess of Denmark (Margrethe - Frederik - Christian) from the junior lines which will procreate in the comital family de Monpezat. Very much alike the comital family of Rosenborg.



The biggest difference being that at least so far the eventual founders of a future comital family of Monpezat are still Prince and styled HRH and HH.
 
Queen Margrethe only did that because it was discovered that the Monpezat comital title was an assumed one and that even the family´s noble status rested on shaky ground. As it happened it turned out to be perfectly timed with her husband becoming more outspoken about his feelings about his royal title. In a way, to me, it seems this was a Danish version of the British declaration regarding the name Mountbatten-Windsor. A way to assure Prince Henrik that his name would live on in the royal family.

I cannot see the Danish royal family having concerns about the possible legal shakiness of a foreign title (I have only heard about the courtesy titles being assumed, not the noble status as such), because the Danish monarchy addresses the queen's sister and her family by Greek royal titles which long ago became illegal according to Greek law. (However, if there is a source which mentions it, I would appreciate a reference, in the "New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: May 2008" topic. http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...scendants-may-2008-a-16845-4.html#post2158842) I would speculate that Prince Henrik requested for his male-line descendants to carry his family name and title.

I have always seen this as the Danish version of the Dutch example (graaf / gravin Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg) to distinguish the main line which will procreate as HRH Prince/Princess of Denmark (Margrethe - Frederik - Christian) from the junior lines which will procreate in the comital family de Monpezat. Very much alike the comital family of Rosenborg.

But the Rosenborg lines are not Rosenborgs because they are junior lines, but because they are descendants from unapproved marriages.
 
Last edited:
Here is a link to the text of the press release of April 30 2008, which Somebody's source posted in image form.



Pressemeddelelse

Amalienborg, den 30. april 2008

Hendes Majestæt Dronningen har besluttet, at Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsen samt Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Joachim tillægges titel af ’greve af Monpezat’. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsesse Mary samt Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Joachims kommende ægtefælle frk. Marie Cavallier vil som følge heraf føre titlen ’grevinde af Monpezat’.

Titlen føres endvidere af efterkommere født i lovligt ægteskab, i overensstemmelse med de almindelige regler, der gælder herom, hvilket vil sige, at titlen ’greve af Monpezat’ videreføres af mandlige descendenter, medens kvindelige descendenter fører titlen ’komtesse af Monpezat’.

Der er tale om en ny, yderligere titel der kan anvendes i tilknytning til de eksisterende. Titlen berører ikke de nugældende prædikater. Navn og titel vil herefter i kort form eksempelvis kunne være:

. Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprins Frederik, greve af Monpezat
. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsesse Mary, grevinde af Monpezat
. Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Christian, greve af Monpezat
. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Isabella, komtesse af Monpezat

Eventuelle henvendelser på denne pressemeddelelse bedes rettet til Kabinetssekretariatet på telefon 3340 2484.


Henning Fode
Hendes Majestæt Dronningens Kabinetssekretær
 
So what title will Prince Joachim’s grandkids have? Will they be style as Prince/princess ?
 
So what title will Prince Joachim’s grandkids have? Will they be style as Prince/princess ?

Congratulations on your first post. :flowers:

That's up to the monarch, most likely Frederik, to decide.

My best guess is: Almost certainly no. If it's boys they will Counts of Montpezat if girls they will be (Komtesse) comtessa of Montpezat, until they marry.
 
Congratulations on your first post. :flowers:

That's up to the monarch, most likely Frederik, to decide.

My best guess is: Almost certainly no. If it's boys they will Counts of Montpezat if girls they will be (Komtesse) comtessa of Montpezat, until they marry.

Except for grandchildren by Athena. I would expect them to carry their father's surname (and title if applicable). Or would you think differently?
 
Except for grandchildren by Athena. I would expect them to carry their father's surname (and title if applicable). Or would you think differently?

Alas, yes you are right.

Athena has no title to pass on to her children, unless Frederik says OK to her children remaining royals - most unlikely IMO.
 
Alas, yes you are right.

Athena has no title to pass on to her children, unless Frederik says OK to her children remaining royals - most unlikely IMO.


So Nikolai’s, Felix’s and Henrik’s children will Be style as counts

but I thought the title of Prince was passed down if the Prince married with permission of the monarch m?

I guess will have to wait until one of the Princes gets married to find out what title will their children hold
 
So Nikolai’s, Felix’s and Henrik’s children will Be style as counts

but I thought the title of Prince was passed down if the Prince married with permission of the monarch m?

I guess will have to wait until one of the Princes gets married to find out what title will their children hold

A simple way to keep the size of the royal family small is to ('suggest' non-mainline grandchildren of a monarch) not (to) ask for permission from the monarch to get married. In that way, it is clear that the monarch isn't opposed to the marriage but isn't required to keep growing the royal family.

Something similar was for example done regarding prince Pieter-Christiaan and prince Floris in the Netherlands. They didn't ask for permission while their older brothers did. Main reason being that their brothers were the first of their generations to marry but since both the crown prince and his younger brother had married and had children. So, they weren't needed to secure the thtone (and would loose their rights upon their cousin ascending the throne several years in the future0.
 
Last edited:
So Nikolai’s, Felix’s and Henrik’s children will Be style as counts

but I thought the title of Prince was passed down if the Prince married with permission of the monarch m?

I guess will have to wait until one of the Princes gets married to find out what title will their children hold

Not automatically. (*) Because Joachim's grandchildren will be so far away from the throne that it makes no sense to make them royals as well. Otherwise we would have about 281 royals running around all over the place in a couple of generations!
It's by no means certain Joachim's children will retain their royal titles upon marrying. - It's up to the monarch.

It's another matter with M&F's children. They are much closer to the throne and even Josephine has a chance, albeit small, to end up on the throne.
their children may very well be royals as well, but apart from Christian that's where the royal line will stop for Isabella, Vincent and Josephine IMO.

Of course it's likely to expect that one or more of M&F's children will marry and settle abroad, perhaps Australia... and do a Madeleine of Sweden. (Who is gradually turning into Mrs. O'Neil.)
Or one or more of them may simply give up their royal titles.

(*) It's a Catch 22. You give up your royal title in order to get the monarchs approval to marry.
Or you lose your royal title because you don't marry with the monarch's approval.
So if the monarch decides you are going to lose your royal title, you will lose it, unless you do an Elisabeth.
 
Not automatically. (*)

(*) It's a Catch 22. You give up your royal title in order to get the monarchs approval to marry.
Or you lose your royal title because you don't marry with the monarch's approval.
So if the monarch decides you are going to lose your royal title, you will lose it, unless you do an Elisabeth.

There is an informal custom though that every prince (and since the end of Salic law in 1953, princess) who retained their place in the line of succession after marriage has been allowed to pass on his or her title (although Princess Benedikte's husband declined). While I agree with you that the monarch could change this custom, I agree with Somebody that the simplest solution would be for Joachim's children not to officially request the monarch's permission to marry, and therefore automatically remove themselves from the order of succession under article 5 of the Act of Succession.


She coulnt take his fathers titles because they dont have female inheritance in these states :) and futhermore they are not part of Denmark anymore

Those states are defunct, but if that was the view of the Danish Royal Family surely King Christian IX should have been the one to drop them (and the states themselves).

The male monarch King Carl Gustaf did the same, dropping the Wends and Goths from his title.
 
Last edited:
I tumbled about this in the "Portal" and I must say, I find it somewhat funny, that the title of the Countess ends with the marriage of the girl!


Who's idea was this?


I mean, Denmark has a Queen! Whatever line, under this rule, the danish royal family is french now!


Is this some kind of revenge by the deceased Prince, who never became King?
 
I tumbled about this in the "Portal" and I must say, I find it somewhat funny, that the title of the Countess ends with the marriage of the girl!


Who's idea was this?


I mean, Denmark has a Queen! Whatever line, under this rule, the danish royal family is french now!


Is this some kind of revenge by the deceased Prince, who never became King?

It is exactly the same as in your country Germany where nobility is only hereditary in the male lineage. In "egalitarian" Netherlands it was established by the Govdtnment that the Nobility is a historic institute with historic rules: the Dutch decided not to change these rules. After all: when the policy is to phase it out slowly (the Nobility is declining since it is "frozen" since WWII) it makes no sense to open all doors my taking away all (gender) limitations on hereditary nobility. We may expect a similar unofficial policy regarding the Nobility in the North European monarchies. Even Belgium does not create hereditary nobles anymore, the same in the UK.
 
Last edited:
For legal purposes, German nobility was abolished by the 1919 constitution, but the noble titles are legally family names which can, since changes to the law, be inherited in both male and female lineage.
Even in bygone ages German noblewomen typically retained their titles after marriage, unless they married beneath their station.
 
Back
Top Bottom