General Questions and Information about the Danish Royal Family

[JR76]

That is in contrast to say Crown Princess Victoria, who AFAIK do not have a LiW, but instead a permanently attached female adjutant, who perform pretty much the same tasks as an adjutant and LiW. - But of course without being a close personal friend.

Quite correctly Crown Princess Victoria has chosen to have aide-de-camps instead of ladies in waiting. The reason behind this is said to be that she wants to keep her organisation like her father's who quite naturally has aide-de-camps and not ladies in waiting. The aide-de-camps, who are both male and female, number 12 and are on a rotating schedule of service for one month each per year. They're all high-ranking officers who live at Haga Palace while on duty and are expected to be available around the clock.

 

[Nordic]

Mary has one LiW. And always have.
When she becomes queen I imagine she will have at least two, pretty much full time LiWs. .

Mary's LIW is also her private secretary.

 

[iceflower]

On July 4 the exhibition "Princess dresses" will open at the Amalienborg Museum. It will present a selection of dresses by Jørgen Bender created for Princess Benedikte (21 dresses like birthday dresses and her silver wedding dress):


** kongehuset instagram **


** kongehuset: Udstillingen ”Prinsessekjoler” på Amalienborgmuseet **

 

[LadyFinn]

That is in contrast to say Crown Princess Victoria, who AFAIK do not have a LiW, but instead a permanently attached female adjutant, who perform pretty much the same tasks as an adjutant and LiW. - But of course without being a close personal friend.

Crown Princess Victoria has twelve aide-de-camps, a year ago five of them were men and seven women. They are all high-ranking officers. Of those, in 2017 commander Ewa Skoog Haslum was chosen as the vice chancellor of the Swedish Defence University and later the Chief of Navy and promoted as rear admiral, the first female admiral in Sweden. Colonel Laura Swaan Wrede was appointed as the first female commander of Livgardet, and on 1st April this year as the acting army chief and promoted as brigadier general, the first female general at the Swedish Armed Forces. Of those who still work as Victoria's aide-de-camps, Lieutenant Colonel Stefan Wilson is the Head of Tactical Warfare Division at the Swedish Defence University. Colonel Lena Persson Herlitz is the Head of Training Department at Swedish Armed Forces HQ. Colonel Malin Persson is Air Base Wing Commander etcetera.

 

[Muhler]

What would happen if Christian went missing, only turn up again later?

Say Christian is missing at sea. No trace of him or the crew, nor his boat. Nothing.

Okay, if it is assumed that Christian is most likely to have died, due to say a storm in the area and an intensive search hasn't been able to find him. Then he can be declared dead quite fast. The same thing applies if he was aboard a plane that crashed at sea.
In that case a court can after six months rule that he is dead.
If he is just missing and it can't be determined with reasonable certainty that he is likely to have died, then it will take five years, before a court will rule that he is dead.
There is after all the chance that he has been abducted, taken a new identity or joined the Foreign Legion.

In this case five years pass. No Christian. Isabella automatically becomes crown princess, the moment Christian is ruled dead. Assuming of course that Frederik is on the throne.

Then three years later he is found alive on a deserted island. Now what?
Will Christian be ruled alive again and therefore become crown prince again?

I'd say most unlikely, as he had been declared officially dead and Isabella has officially become the Heir.
It would be a mess to reverse things. Not to mention the physical and mental condition of Christian after eight years...
I believe it would decided to let Isabella go on with the job she has been preparing for for eight years now.
But there is a chance that Isabella would step down or there would be a majority for reinstating Christian as crown prince.

Now, what if Isabella has become queen, and Christian shows up?
Can he claim the throne?
Can he claim to at least being the successor, also on behalf of any children he may have?

No, I'd say. That ship has sailed. Isabella is the monarch and it's her line that matters now.

What are your thoughts?
Also in regards to other monarchies, that may have a different legislation or different precedence.

 

[Prinsara]

I mean this with all respect and sincerity, but I'm also curious. How far back from Frederik IX and Count Ingolf does the alcoholism in the DRF go? Were there other documented historical cases? Can it be traced to someone who's the source?

 

[Muhler]

I mean this with all respect and sincerity, but I'm also curious. How far back from Frederik IX and Count Ingolf does the alcoholism in the DRF go? Were there other documented historical cases? Can it be traced to someone who's the source?

The shortest answer would be: All the way back to the very beginning.
Even before Gorm the Old.

Prince Aage, who ended up in the Foreign Legion, was an probably an alcoholic. That's clear by contemporary accounts from various sources, who met him in among other places North Africa. I have a feeling he drowned his sorrow over his late wife. There are several account from Danish legionaries who could and would bum a drink from him in bars. And that he was frequenting bars quite a lot! (Boredom played a part too, I presume.)

There are no accounts that I know off that specifically mentions any of the kings, after Christian IV, being a regular binge drinker. But that was part of his reputation, in line with current behavior and something you bragged about.
I don't think the kings between Christian IV and Frederik IX drank out of the ordinary, but keep in mind that everybody drank (light) beer, schnapps and wine and thus went to bed in the evening more or less tipsy.
But then again, there is no account that I'm aware off, mentioning any of these kings as being teetotaler, or even being moderate drinkers.
It's a difficult question to answer, because up to and including Frederik IX pretty much everybody drank to some extent. So the acceptance level was higher and as such also the level where people would gossip about to such an extent that it gets mentioned in biographies.

So I'd say statistically speaking there must have been quite a handful of alcoholics within the DRF over the past 200 years, but it was either hushed up or not considered an issue, outside the family.

 

[Prinsara]

The shortest answer would be: All the way back to the very beginning.
Even before Gorm the Old.

Prince Aage, who ended up in the Foreign Legion, was an probably an alcoholic. That's clear by contemporary accounts from various sources, who met him in among other places North Africa. I have a feeling he drowned his sorrow over his late wife. There are several account from Danish legionaries who could and would bum a drink from him in bars. And that he was frequenting bars quite a lot! (Boredom played a part too, I presume.)

There are no accounts that I know off that specifically mentions any of the kings, after Christian IV, being a regular binge drinker. But that was part of his reputation, in line with current behavior and something you bragged about.
I don't think the kings between Christian IV and Frederik IX drank out of the ordinary, but keep in mind that everybody drank (light) beer, schnapps and wine and thus went to bed in the evening more or less tipsy.
But then again, there is no account that I'm aware off, mentioning any of these kings as being teetotaler, or even being moderate drinkers.
It's a difficult question to answer, because up to and including Frederik IX pretty much everybody drank to some extent. So the acceptance level was higher and as such also the level where people would gossip about to such an extent that it gets mentioned in biographies.

So I'd say statistically speaking there must have been quite a handful of alcoholics within the DRF over the past 200 years, but it was either hushed up or not considered an issue, outside the family.

You're right; excuses were undoubtedly made, further back. And society is society. I wondered if it had been enough of a problem for anyone else that it had been noted. And statistically speaking (unlike hemophilia ), it's unlikely to have just arisen in Frederik and his nephew, etc., out of nowhere. So do I need to check Queen Alexandrine's family, or can we assume 1000 years of Danish drinking culture was enough to be the culprit and Frederik just happened to be at the point where people noticed?

 

[Muhler]

You're right; excuses were undoubtedly made, further back. And society is society. I wondered if it had been enough of a problem for anyone else that it had been noted. And statistically speaking (unlike hemophilia ), it's unlikely to have just arisen in Frederik and his nephew, etc., out of nowhere. So do I need to check Queen Alexandrine's family, or can we assume 1000 years of Danish drinking culture was enough to be the culprit and Frederik just happened to be at the point where people noticed?

Both, I'd say.

Frederik IX was at a stage, and with enough exposure (remember his family was presented to the public as the idyllic family - which it to a considerable extent was. Frederik was despite his flaws a devoted husband and loving father) for it to be noticed and gossiped about in public. When he was a prince he and his mate toured the clubs of Copenhagen, and they didn't exactly drink lemonade. So that was well known. - And became an image problem.

Beforehand, especially during Absolutism, it was probably not the best idea to say publicly that prominent members of the DRF were winos! It was no doubt well known to the public, but there were so many alcoholics around that it must have seem normal.
There are not many secrets in a city of 100.000, of which several hundred works one way or another for the DRF.
And especially around 1800, the ballad-hags would write one-penny ballads about everyone who had made a spectacle of themselves, whether it was true or not. So if you had been proposing to the statue of Gefion on the way home from a merry evening, you could hear the ballad about you, being song the next evening in the countless clubs in Copenhagen.

I don't know of any DK kings who got the nickname of say Christian the Drunkard. And if there were, his family would have made sure: We don't write about that, right!?! - No, Sire. - Write about what, Sire? - How odd, Sire, I seem to have lost my memory.

Seriously, I don't know if there really is alcoholism in the family. What I do know is that anyone can become an addict, when triggered.

 

[Prinsara]

Both, I'd say.

Frederik IX was at a stage, and with enough exposure (remember his family was presented to the public as the idyllic family - which it to a considerable extent was. Frederik was despite his flaws a devoted husband and loving father) for it to be noticed and gossiped about in public. When he was a prince he and his mate toured the clubs of Copenhagen, and they didn't exactly drink lemonade. So that was well known. - And became an image problem.

Beforehand, especially during Absolutism, it was probably not the best idea to say publicly that prominent members of the DRF were winos! It was no doubt well known to the public, but there were so many alcoholics around that it must have seem normal.
There are not many secrets in a city of 100.000, of which several hundred works one way or another for the DRF.
And especially around 1800, the ballad-hags would write one-penny ballads about everyone who had made a spectacle of themselves, whether it was true or not. So if you had been proposing to the statue of Gefion on the way home from a merry evening, you could hear the ballad about you, being song the next evening in the countless clubs in Copenhagen.

I don't know of any DK kings who got the nickname of say Christian the Drunkard. And if there were, his family would have made sure: We don't write about that, right!?! - No, Sire. - Write about what, Sire? - How odd, Sire, I seem to have lost my memory.

Seriously, I don't know if there really is alcoholism in the family. What I do know is that anyone can become an addict, when triggered.

Having the entire city singing about you sounds both amusing and horrifying.

It's true, anyone can have addiction issues, and with alcohol in particular, the research points to it being widely hereditary — which is why if you have a close family member with this issue, you're particularly advised to watch what you do.

With Frederik, Ingolf, and a couple of other things I've heard, it does at least appear to be in the family... which got me wondering where it might have been before. I thought it might be more clear-cut if there was someone in the past, but I guess it's not so obvious.

 

[Muhler]

Having the entire city singing about you sounds both amusing and horrifying.

It's true, anyone can have addiction issues, and with alcohol in particular, the research points to it being widely hereditary — which is why if you have a close family member with this issue, you're particularly advised to watch what you do.

With Frederik, Ingolf, and a couple of other things I've heard, it does at least appear to be in the family... which got me wondering where it might have been before. I thought it might be more clear-cut if there was someone in the past, but I guess it's not so obvious.

Hardly.
Because even back then, becoming drunk is one thing, going to the stage where a family member has to be drunk just to function, wasn't something you bragged about in the family, and there were no doubt ways to deal with that.
Being send away or confined to your room until you sobered up springs to mind.
As for kings, certainly prior to 1660 (the introduction of Absolutism) they couldn't afford to be incapacitated by an addiction. They would either be sidelined, or before 1300; killed.

As for current DRF members. Well, I hope they are vigilant if there is alcoholism in the family.
There is still some talk of Joachim being an alcoholic, because he went on a few binges after the divorce from Alexandra. But there was no talk about that prior to the divorce, and not after marrying our Marie.
So to me that suggest that he merely did what men of his (and my) generation tends to do when it hurts: Get drunk.

 

[Prinsara]

As for current DRF members. Well, I hope they are vigilant if there is alcoholism in the family.
There is still some talk of Joachim being an alcoholic, because he went on a few binges after the divorce from Alexandra. But there was no talk about that prior to the divorce, and not after marrying our Marie.
So to me that suggest that he merely did what men of his (and my) generation tends to do when it hurts: Get drunk.

Well, not "if". "Since". There is. However it happened, Frederik establishes it, and I'm pretty sure they and all their advisers know the story. All the evidence points to his problems with alcohol not affecting him alone. Hopefully, as you say, yes, they all keep an eye out, and it continues to not be an issue.

 

[Blog Real]

I don't know where to ask this. But what was Prince Frederik's first official engagement alone?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I don't know where to ask this. But what was Prince Frederik's first official engagement alone?

That is a good question. I would also be curious about the age when members of the royal house became full-time working royals, if applicable.


(I replied to a few comments from the titles-discussion on page 10 of this thread here.)

 

[Muhler]

Around eighteen I'd say.

Frederik went solo to Japan, when he was very young and he attended events solo in USA when at Harward.

Joachim was scolded by QMII for being late for an event with her, when she was visiting Australia and he was an intern at a ranch there.
A stern looking QMII took him aside and said something less than kind. - I can still see that photo before me.
And Joachim cannot have been more than 20-22.

Before then Joachim and Frederik always attended events with their parents. Even though it happened that a photographer and a journalist came by to take a photo.
There is an example with Frederik (described in the book: Under the Beam) where he was going to soccer at a local club and there was the then royal reporter from Se & Hør and a photographer. He ran back to Queen Ingrid, who explained about the rules of the game and he later returned, so that the journalist could get their story. He must have been around twelve I'd say. Perhaps in connection with his confirmation?
(Verified. It's described in the chapter: Boy.) It happened in 1981.

 

[polyesco]

Thanks Muhler.
It's always exciting to see the young royals join their parents and soon enough on their own.
Christian has done events with his parents and a few with grandparents. Isabella too in the naming of "her" ship with mom. And the twins at the zoo event also with mom.
So far it has been a good balance. I look forward to June 13 for Christian to be with the Queen and Frederik.

 

[Muhler]

Indeed.
M&F's children are more used to and prepared to be in the spotlight.
Of course children today are much more used to be "on" and upload videos of themselves both routinely, both in connection with school projects and in their spare time.
But it is also clear to me that M&F's children have been schooled in the basics in what to say - and what not to say.
We saw an example of that when the children spoke about their dad and family at the celebration of Frederik's 50th B-day.
Vincent is wonderful, because he say it as it is.

At some point he and Christian sat in a couch and told about one of the house-rules IIRC, not too much phone and tablet-time for the children! - But dad is more manageable in that respect. And that's when mother Mary puts on a more stern demeanor! (*)
Vincent was adamant that "mother gets crossed." While Christian tried to smooth that detail out, noo, ain't that bad. But Vincent: "Yes, she does, she gets crossed."

The same thing last year when there was a nation wide lockdown and the family talked about how they coped in the garden behind their mansion at Amalienborg. Three of the children talked about the things they did in regards to being taught online - but Vincent was unfiltered and he thought it was boring.


(*) Mary has talked about that in an interview as well. She and Frederik are in agreement that the children shouldn't have their noses buried in their phones and tablets too much. Only for her to walk into the living room to find Frederik and the children draped all over the couch, all lost in a phone/tablet.
I believe that is from Under the Beam.
(Verified. It's in the chapter: Family Man.)

 

[Silverpot]

Hardly.
Because even back then, becoming drunk is one thing, going to the stage where a family member has to be drunk just to function, wasn't something you bragged about in the family, and there were no doubt ways to deal with that.
Being send away or confined to your room until you sobered up springs to mind.
As for kings, certainly prior to 1660 (the introduction of Absolutism) they couldn't afford to be incapacitated by an addiction. They would either be sidelined, or before 1300; killed.

As for current DRF members. Well, I hope they are vigilant if there is alcoholism in the family.
There is still some talk of Joachim being an alcoholic, because he went on a few binges after the divorce from Alexandra. But there was no talk about that prior to the divorce, and not after marrying our Marie.
So to me that suggest that he merely did what men of his (and my) generation tends to do when it hurts: Get drunk.

Very much OT here but I just have to ask; why is Marie refered to as "our Marie"?

 

[Muhler]

Very much OT here but I just have to ask; why is Marie refered to as "our Marie"?

It's a term of endearment I brought with me from another forum. And now it's a trademark. - And still meant in the kindest possible way.

 

[Prinsara]

It's a term of endearment I brought with me from another forum. And now it's a trademark. - And still meant in the kindest possible way.

I always thought it was something to do with Mary being "our Mary" in Australia?

 

[Muhler]

I always thought it was something to do with Mary being "our Mary" in Australia?

Not at all, actually. Nothing to do with Mary at all.
It stems back from when it began to be serious between our Marie and Joachim.
But the details is something I'll keep between myself and a few other members on another and this forum. Suffice to say that I find it very endearing and very human. And one of the reasons why I genuinely like Marie.

And with that we'll return back on topic. ?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Nikolai's 22nd birthday
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTG3QufDWDw/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://www.facebook.com/detdanskekongehus/photos/a.284013581937230/1552018315136744

The royal court never commemorated Princess Elisabeth's birthdays with the publication of photos, did they? I wonder why the difference in treatment is not the other way around. Princess Elisabeth was a part-time working royal whereas Prince Nikolai is not.

There's no question that Knud would have become Christian X had the succession not been changed. The tradition of alternate regnal names are so strong that historically many Danish princes have been named both Christian and Frederik just in case.

Some examples:
Christian Frederik Vilhelm Carl (king Frederick VIII)

HIS SONS
Christian Carl Frederik Albert Alexander Vilhelm (king Christian X)
Christian Frederik Carl Georg Valdemar Axel (king Haakon VII of Norway)
Harald Christian Frederik
Christian Frederik Vilhelm Valdemar Gustav

Gorm Christian Frederik Hans Harald (elder son of Harald - at the time of his birth 4th in line to the throne after his cousins Frederik and Knud and his father Harald - so not unrealistic to think that he had a small chance to end up at the throne, i.e., if both Frederik and Knud didn't have sons)
Oluf Christian Carl Axel (younger son of Harald: no Frederik!)

YOUNGER SON OF CHRISTIAN X and sons
Knud Christian Frederik Michael
Ingolf Christian Frederik Knud Harald Gorm Gustav Viggo Valdemar Aage
Christian Frederik Franz Knud Harald Carl Oluf Gustav Georg Erik

ELDER SON OF CHRISTIAN X and male descendants
Christian Frederik Franz Michael Carl Valdemar Georg (previous king)
Frederik André Henrik Christian (current crown prince)

It seems the crown prince was the last one to have both names: the younger princes have only one of the two - except for prince Henrik who has neither (but the chances of him succeeding to the throne are extremely slim)!
- Joachim Holger Waldemar Christian
- Nikolai William Alexander Frederik
- Felix Henrik Valdemar Christian
- Christian Valdemar Henri John
- Vincent Frederik Minik Alexander
- Henrik Carl Joachim Alain

Whether it is contigency planning or simply a family tradition, I wonder if there were/are plans for a comparable naming tradition for princesses and queens following the approval of absolute primogeniture in 2009.

The only princesses born after the process of amending the Act of Succession was initiated in 2005 were

Isabella Henrietta Ingrid Margrethe
Josephine Sophia Ivalo Mathilda
Athena Marguerite Françoise Marie

 

[iceflower]

A number of posts have been moved to our extra thread about titles, see here.

 

[iceflower]

All posts about the new book „Royal House: At Work for Denmark“ have been moved to our extra thread at the Royal Library subforum:

** Danish Royal Family Books **

 

[Izzie]

Can someone explain to me how the communications and social media work with the DRF? I believe in the British RF both KP and Claremce House each have their own social media (ie Instagram) to report on their events, engagements, they post IG lives, etc. Really keeping people informed of what they are doing, whether on the official calendar or not. They each have their own communications teams, etc and do not have to rely on the PR team from BP.

I'm just curious why that does not appear to be the same for the DRF with Mary/Frederik having their own separate social media to post about all they do official and non-official. Is there a reason why this cannot be done?

Thanks.

 

[maria-olivia]

To me Princess Benedikte is now a Danish full time Royal , the third place instead of our Marie.
I did not see her very often at Weddings or Funerals in Germany , where She is a Princess. Her Son prince Gustav and her daughter Princess Nathalie did not atttend their Cousin Wedding.
Her Sister Queen Margrete celebrated her 75th Birthday. Queen Anne Marie turned this year 75 and nothing happened.

 

[Blog Real]

Can someone explain to me how the communications and social media work with the DRF? I believe in the British RF both KP and Claremce House each have their own social media (ie Instagram) to report on their events, engagements, they post IG lives, etc. Really keeping people informed of what they are doing, whether on the official calendar or not. They each have their own communications teams, etc and do not have to rely on the PR team from BP.

I'm just curious why that does not appear to be the same for the DRF with Mary/Frederik having their own separate social media to post about all they do official and non-official. Is there a reason why this cannot be done?

Thanks.

I think the British Royal Family is the only one that has separate social media for its members. All other royal families have the same media for all their members. Even if some of its members have their own instagram page (Carl Philip, Sofia and Madeleine in Sweden or Mette-Marit in Norway).

 

[Izzie]

I think the British Royal Family is the only one that has separate social media for its members. All other royal families have the same media for all their members. Even if some of its members have their own instagram page (Carl Philip, Sofia and Madeleine in Sweden or Mette-Marit in Norway).

Personally, IMO the way the British RF have it separate for the heir apparent and heir presumptive works better than having it all together. I think it would be a better set up for Mary and Frederik tbh. It would surely provide better coverage of their events and their other bts work like working meetings, etc.

 

[Muhler]

The very likable, former Chief of Court, Søren Haslund Christensen is dead.
He passed away after a longer period of illness. He turned 88, a very decent age. He suffered from Alzheimer.

Søren Haslund Christensen had a very close relationship with not least M&F, also after he retired.
In many ways he was an extra father-figure and certainly a mentor for Frederik in particular.

- His dry humor will be missed.

https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...lie-i-sorg-tidligere-hofmarskal-er-gaaet-bort

 

[Nordic]

Søren Haslund Christensen had a very close relationship with not least M&F, also after he retired.
In many ways he was an extra father-figure and certainly a mentor for Frederik in particular.
]

I would have thought Per Thornit would have been closer to them?