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  #41  
Old 09-12-2011, 04:24 AM
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As for CP Mary, yes maybe she could/can, however I don't know what it would do to their marriage. Men usually don't like being told by their
wives that their skills need improving!
Gender protest!
Typical female chauvinism.
Some of us do listen to our wives, not just because it's a good idea, nagging-wise, but also we respect her opinion.
I'm sure Frederik has a tremendous respect for Mary's opinion, even is he may not necessarily agree - intially. (He'll cave in.... I mean be convinced by her arguments eventually). Whether she has the heart to tell him is another matter: "Frederik, darling, you really suck at giving speeches. Swallow the camel (idiom) and get genuine professional help".

Getting professionel help for something that is so crucial in your work is not suffering a defeat, it's merely a tool.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:34 AM
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Wasn't he receiving professional help with speaking during the IOC congress before he was elected? I believe they showed that in the DR documentary.

IMO I think Frederik has a "clutter"
Cluttering

I say that only because I suffer from it as well and it is very embarrassing. It explains why his speeches on paper are excellent but do not come out fluent when he speaks.
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  #43  
Old 09-12-2011, 04:35 AM
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By now it's time to get back to the topic of this thread, the State Visit. The language topic
has already been discussed at the following thread and can be continued there :

** The Future of the Danish Monarchy **
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  #44  
Old 09-15-2011, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler

It's still slow and a bit tiring for me to type a lot, so please bear with me.

I think we should wait for the BB articles Thursday.
From what little I have seen so far, QMII sounded as if she has a cold. The Regent Couple were last on an official visit to Russia/Soviet Union in 1975 and what strikes them the most is the tremendous change since then, not least in the mentallity of the Russians. They are much more open now, and not afraid to speak to foreigners. They express themselves freely know.
QMII also commented on 9/11.

Hi Muhler,

If you can do a write up on what QMII said when you feel better, that would be great!
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  #45  
Old 09-15-2011, 07:30 AM
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Hi Muhler,

If you can do a write up on what QMII said when you feel better, that would be great!
In regards to 9/11?
She was asked about her thoughts on the 11. September 2011, ten years after 9/11.

She said: "It's obvious when you think about it. It was indeed a (world-)turning event. Where was I that day, what did we do, what was I thinking? But perhaps I would have reflected on this day (ten years after) differently, had I been at home in Denmark, where the experience touched me back then. Here in Russia, I'm in a different, foreign field and it is like it's two different worlds.
It was indeed an inconceivably disaster and one thought: What on earth will this mean for the future? And it has meant a great deal, one can certainly say that".

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #37, 2011.
I mors og fars fodspor - In the footsteps of mother and father.
Written by Annelise Weimann.
http://www.billedbladet.dk/Kongelige...20fodspor.aspx

As you know the Regent Couple, and CP Frederik went on a state visit to Russia recently. Partly diplomatic but also heading the largest offensive to Russia by Danish commerce so far.
There was also no hiding the fact that this was a learning experience for Frederik. Frederik said about trailing in the footsteps of his parents: "It's no shame to learn. I think it's fine to walk three steps behind and see what is going on, listen to what is being said".

The guests were taken very well care of, with lots of Russian and Danish security. With the Regent Couple's cortege being given absolute priority and Frederik experienced first hand the difference between priority and being a normal Moscovite trying to get through the traffic. He was only escorted by a olice car or two when he was out on the job alone. - The Regent Couple's car made it to the airport in less than half an hour, mere mortals, in this case including Frederik, took more than two hours to get there.

QMII was suffering from a nasty cold and she freely admitted that she felt like she was swimming through something dense.

It all started in the Kremlin were they were recieved by President Medvedev and Mrs. Svetlana. President Medvedev was in a good mood. He was that as well, during his official visit to DK. Medvedev is very interested in culture and so is QMII and it appears they have a good rapport.
Prime Minister Putin, whom they also met later on, was all charm as well, which I understand is not always the case, he can be a bit stern. But it may have something to do with a pipeline going through Danish territory, thus ensuring additional revenue for Russia.

Now, palaces in Russia are made to impress! Seriously impress! (*) They did! The Danish entourage - and press, were almost falling on their behind. The Regent Couple at least maintained their composure. Not least QMII, wearing her favourite Teletubby outfit.
At the press conference at the end of the visit onboard Dannebrog (**) QMII was asked: Do you think the Crown Prince will learn something from you during the visit?
QMII: "I'm glad Frederik is with us. Perhaps he'll learn something from me. Perhaps he'll also learn, what not to do". Leading to a giggle from Frederik.

Well, it wasn't all palaces. The three of them also went the Pushkin Museum, where a prize of commerce wa presented to a Russian business man.

They attended a dinner with governour of Moscow.

There was also the official dinner in the Kremlin. An intimate affair with only 120 guests, including Dimitri Romanoff, who lives in DK with his wife. They had been invited by QMII.
QMII was on that occasion wearing a blue dress with white laces from Birgitte Thaulow.

And Frederik in particular rushed from on buiness seminar to another. Including one by Lego, who had build a huge Babouschka figure. - You know, the figurines within figurines.

(*) Wasn't it Khatarina the Great in particular, who used a very considerable part of the Russian GNP to ensure visitors were duly impressed and aiming to outdo the Versailles and similar summer cottages?

(**) As far as I know the Russians haven't got a presidential yacht, so at least we can thumb our noses at them in that respect.
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  #46  
Old 09-15-2011, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler

In regards to 9/11?
She was asked about her thoughts on the 11. September 2011, ten years after 9/11.

She said: "It's obvious when you think about it. It was indeed a (world-)turning event. Where was I that day, what did we do, what was I thinking? But perhaps I would have reflected on this day (ten years after) differently, had I been at home in Denmark, where the experience touched me back then. Here in Russia, I'm in a different, foreign field and it is like it's two different worlds.
It was indeed an inconceivably disaster and one thought: What on earth will this mean for the future? And it has meant a great deal, one can certainly say that".

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #37, 2011.
I mors og fars fodspor - In the fottsteps of mother and father.
Written by Annelise Weimann.

As you know the Regent Couple, and CP Frederik went on a state visit to Russian recently. Partly diplomatic but also heading the largest offensive to Russian by Danish commerce so far.
There was also no hiding the fact that this was a learning experience for Frederik. Frederik said about trailing in the footsteps of his parents: "It's no shame to learn. I think it's fine to walk three steps behind and see what is going on, listen to what is being said".

The guests were taken very well care of, with lots of Russian and Danish security. With the Regent Couple's cortege being given absolute priority and Frederik experienced first hand the difference between priority and being a normal Moscovite trying to get through the traffic. He was only escorted by a olice car or two when he was out on the job alone. - The Regent Couple's car made it to the airport in less than half an hour, mere mortals, in this case including Frederik, took more than two hours to get there.

QMII was suffering from a nasty cold and she freely admitted that she felt like she was swimming through something dense.

It all started in the Kremlin were they were recieved by President Medvedev and Mrs. Svetlana. President Medvedev was in a good mood. He was that as well, during his official visit to DK. Medvedev is very interested in culture and so is QMII and it appears they have a good rapport.
Prime Minister Putin, whom they also met later on, was all charm as well, which I understand is not always the case, he can be a bit stern. But it may have something to do with a pipeline going through Danish territory, thus ensuring additional revenue for Russia.

Now, palaces in Russia are made to impress! Seriously impress! (*) They did! The Danish entourage - and press, were almost falling on their behind. The Regent Couple at least maintained their composure. Not least QMII, wearing her favourite Teletubby outfit.
At the press conference at the end of the visit onboard Dannebrog (**) QMII was asked: Do you think the Crown Prince will learn something from you during the visit?
QMII: "I'm glad Frederik is with us. Perhaps he'll learn something from me. Perhaps he'll also learn, what not to do". Leading to a giggle from Frederik.

Well, it wasn't all palaces. The three of them also went the Pushkin Museum, where a prize of commerce wa presented to a Russian business man.

They attended a dinner with governour of Moscow.

There was also the official dinner in the Kremlin. An intimate affair with only 120 guests, including Dimitri Romanoff, who lives in DK with his wife. They had been invited by QMII.
QMII was on that occasion wearing a blue dress with white laces from Birgitte Thaulow.

And Frederik in particular rushed from on buiness seminar to another. Including one by Lego, who had build a huge Babouschka figure. - You know, the figurines within figurines.

(*) Wasn't it Khatarina the Great in particular, who used a very considerable part of the Russian GNP to ensure visitors were duly impressed and aiming to outdo the Versailles and similar summer cottages?

(**) As far as I know the Russians haven't got a presidential yacht, so at least we can thumb our noses at them in that respect.

Oh, I thought she gave a full interview after completing engagements in Russia but thanks for that and the article on Frederik
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  #47  
Old 09-15-2011, 08:02 AM
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Oh, I thought she gave a full interview after completing engagements in Russia but thanks for that and the article on Frederik
Oh, they did hold a press conference at the end of the visit.
Perhaps that will be covered in the next issue.
Otherwise I'll have to listen to a clip and type down what was said. - But not right now, okay?
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  #48  
Old 09-15-2011, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler

Oh, they did hold a press conference at the end of the visit.
Perhaps that will be covered in the next issue.
Otherwise I'll have to listen to a clip and type down what was said. - But not right now, okay?
No worries You don't have to transcribe HAHA, only if you feel like translating the next issue's article. You're too good Muhler!
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  #49  
Old 09-23-2011, 04:29 PM
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No worries You don't have to transcribe HAHA, only if you feel like translating the next issue's article. You're too good Muhler!
Thank you.
I'm afraid I'm going to dissapoint you a little. There is nothing of significanse from the press conference in this weeks issue of BB.
In fact, and probably due to the general election, there is very little from the press conference in any media. I wrote a few words about what QMII said a few posts back, and that's basically it...

Okay, the coverage of the state visit continues in Billed Bladet #38.
All written by Annelise Weimann.

As is tradition at such visit, the Regent Couple were hosts at a dinner for 400 Danish and Russian guests at the last evening of the visit. That took place at the Etnographical Museum in Skt. Petersburg in a very grand hall. The entertainment was provided by the DR (network) Big Band and a dance group called Pivot.
Hoffourer (= the court official in charge of the daily practical running of the household/court, including supervising dinners) Kenneth Madsen was in charge. The menu had been ordered from DK, but it was made and served by Russian cooks and waiters and as is almost inevitable at state visits, something always go wrong at some point... In this case the main course, boeuf bordelaise was served before the first course, which was foie gras. Oh, well...

QMII and PH also visited the Peter and Dagmar Cathedral in Skt. Petersburg, where Empress Dagmar is buried along side her husband Tzar Alexander III.
QMII said: "My father knew Empress Dagmar (*) well and he appreciated her very much. As such she was not only a part of history, she was a part of the family.
When Empress Dagmar's son Tzar Nikolaj II, his wife and their four children visited Fredensborg Slot, they wrote their names and the age of the girls on a window pane, as one did back then. That's the window in my bedroom".

QMII and PH also laid down a wreath at the Leningrad Memorial, in honor of the many, many Russians who died during the siege of Leningrad during WWII.

QMII and PH also visited the brewery Baltika, which is owned by the Danish brewery Carlsberg and it controls 40 % of the Russian market.
They both sampled a beer. QMII said: "I normally don't drink that much beer, but the taste is exciting". She also added some malt to a new batch, a beer at 10%

It's no secret that QMII was suffering from a nasty cold and she commented: "It's very impractical and very unaesthetic, when one get a cold like that, but I do think I've been able to see through the curtains formed by the cold in front of the eyes".

Frederik opened the Danish movie festival in Moscow and being among actors and people from the culture, he was in a great mood. And I quote the text in the article:
- Crown Prince Frederik leaped on to the stage as a veritable movie star and (he) spoke as funny and dedicated as if he was in a real movie, when he opened the big Danish movie festival, which took place during the state visit to Moscow. Frederik neither mumbled or tripped over the words, but (he) spoke with enthusiasm about the movie Dirch, which he had seen at home at Amalienborg bofore going to Russia. - End quote. That was the words of Annelise Weimann, no less. Okay...
In continuation of a recent debate about Frederik's oratoric skills, this indicates that his problem is very much psycological.

(*) In DK Empress Dagmar is always referred to as empress and not tzarina.
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  #50  
Old 09-23-2011, 06:29 PM
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There was also the official dinner in the Kremlin. An intimate affair with only 120 guests, including Dimitri Romanoff, who lives in DK with his wife. They had been invited by QMII.
Well, he is a Prince after all and his wife, Dorit, a Princess

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Old 09-24-2011, 11:12 AM
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In continuation of a recent debate about Frederik's oratoric skills, this indicates that his problem is very much psycological.
And what exactly is that psychcological problem? Be careful here, you're diagnosing.

The fact is, Frederik has a choppy speech pattern, which he comes by naturally. He simply does not connect words smoothly. Listen to his mother. She still has her moments where she can't find the words either. For example, watch the video of her handing over automony to Greenland. She starts, stops, takes long pauses between phrases, searches for words. Where were the calls for her to get professional help after that performance?

Watch even older clips of his grandfather Frederik IX speaking; abrupt finishes to words and choppy phrasing. This is where Frederik gets his speech patterns. Not sure how much professional speech help is going to change his DNA. Unneccessary and nit-picking criticism of him every time he gives a speech is not any help, either.

The other fact is that Frederik can read a speech as well as the next person. In fact, he rarely makes mistakes doing so.

What some people are criticizing here are his performances in interview situations. If you want to use the questions after Frederik's IOC election from those odious little reporters from EB as an example of Frederik not being able to handle the media, it's not a good example. We can see for ourselves what their agenda was from the actual q&a session and the backround shown during the Kongehuset Indefra documentary. Frederik was being harrassed by these men, who meant to embarrass him. They were the ones giving a very poor performance.

A better example is the interview done by Dorph-Pedersen for Frederik's 40th birthday. Frederik was criticised again for being Frederik. His usage of fillers, phrases like "you could say" , which make up 20-30% of words in general conversation, get particular attention for critisim in his case. Mass media does not like this kind of disfluency. Although we all do it in normal conversation.

Fillers can be used as a pause to gather thoughts to form the next statement. They are not a crime. It's time to get off of Frederik's back about it, too. He has to be careful about what he says so as not to offend any political or social sensibilities. That can not be an easy thing to do for a man who is intelligent and thoughtful.

His position is one of the things going against him, as is having a loquacious younger brother who is capable of articulating a lot of words. Whether or not he actually says anything worth repeating is debatable.

Frederik on the other hand, is capable of turning a phrase. He can, and does make sensitive observtions, he has been poetic and eloquent at times.

Just as a test, how many people here can quote lines from Frederik's wedding speech? Or, a couple of memorable lines from the engagement interview. Or, his final lines from the speech he gave at this mother's last birthday party. Do you remember what he said at the press meeting after the twins birth? The line about worrying about two little beating hearts. Frederik is definitely not inarticulate. He's quotable.

There is a line from Robert Graves' work I, Claudius, where the stutter inflicted emperor Claudius reminds everyone, "Isn't what a man has to say more important than how long it takes him to say it?" Apply it to Frederik. Isn't what he says more important than how he says?
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  #52  
Old 09-24-2011, 11:51 AM
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And what exactly is that psychcological problem? Be careful here, you're diagnosing.
No, I'm speculating. That's all I can do. I'm not qualified to diagnose Frederik.
I say psycological, because when he speaks from the heart and doesn't think about the audience or the microphones, that's when he's articulate and at his best.

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Originally Posted by puddytat View Post
The fact is, Frederik has a choppy speech pattern, which he comes by naturally. He simply does not connect words smoothly. Listen to his mother. She still has her moments where she can't find the words either. For example, watch the video of her handing over automony to Greenland. She starts, stops, takes long pauses between phrases, searches for words. Where were the calls for her to get professional help after that performance?
Correct. But I'd say Frederik's speech pattern is considerably worse than QMII.
And QMII is 71, it may be a bit late to get professional help for her. Frederik is still fairly young.
Also, QMII had the advantage of being less in the media spotlight than Frederik will, for the first ten years or so of her reign. Nowadays there are cameras around at all sorts of events. Events you would reaf about in the papers 30 years ago.
Plus: QMII has one more advantage: She's a woman. There is less quarter given for men.

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Watch even older clips of his grandfather Frederik IX speaking; abrupt finishes to words and choppy phrasing. This is where Frederik gets his speech patterns. Not sure how much professional speech help is going to change his DNA. Unneccessary and nit-picking criticism of him every time he gives a speech is not any help, either.
I don't think your speech pattern is influenced by your genetic heritage. The environment, certainly. But not your DNA.
And I disagree with you. Not discussing or criticizing Frederik when he mess up a speech or interview, that for sure isn't going to help him.

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The other fact is that Frederik can read a speech as well as the next person. In fact, he rarely makes mistakes doing so.
On that one we certainly disagree.

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Originally Posted by puddytat View Post
What some people are criticizing here are his performances in interview situations. If you want to use the questions after Frederik's IOC election from those odious little reporters from EB as an example of Frederik not being able to handle the media, it's not a good example. We can see for ourselves what their agenda was from the actual q&a session and the backround shown during the Kongehuset Indefra documentary. Frederik was being harrassed by these men, who meant to embarrass him. They were the ones giving a very poor performance.
Unfortunately that is something Frederik and other royals have to deal with nowadays. That they get a hard time from the press.
Frederik cannot expect any mercy from journalists, just because he's a nice guy and isn't comfortable in the meda spotlight. That's his weakness, that's what they will go after. So he should and ought to prepare himself.

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A better example is the interview done by Dorph-Pedersen for Frederik's 40th birthday. Frederik was criticised again for being Frederik. His usage of fillers, phrases like "you could say" , which make up 20-30% of words in general conversation, get particular attention for critisim in his case. Mass media does not like this kind of disfluency. Although we all do it in normal conversation.
I remember that interview. I translated it. That was a benign interview by a very pro-DRF journalist and Frederik had serious problems expressing himself clearly. What he said in that interview made a lot of sense, but his message was practically ruined by his speech pattern.
Except, when he talked about his family. Then he spoke from the heart and his meaning was clear.

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Fillers can be used as a pause to gather thoughts to form the next statement. They are not a crime. It's time to get off of Frederik's back about it, too. He has to be careful about what he says so as not to offend any political or social sensibilities. That can not be an easy thing to do for a man who is intelligent and thoughtful.
Indeed. But it's also important to get your message across and to do so clearly. Everybody use fillers and pause. Just make sure it doesn't get in the way of your message. Otherwise it's ends up being a bad habit.

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His position is one of the things going against him, as is having a loquacious younger brother who is capable of articulating a lot of words. Whether or not he actually says anything worth repeating is debatable.
I'm afraid you can say that about any royal. And Joachim does have something to say from time to time.

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Frederik on the other hand, is capable of turning a phrase. He can, and does make sensitive observtions, he has been poetic and eloquent at times.

Just as a test, how many people here can quote lines from Frederik's wedding speech? Or, a couple of memorable lines from the engagement interview. Or, his final lines from the speech he gave at this mother's last birthday party. Do you remember what he said at the press meeting after the twins birth? The line about worrying about two little beating hearts. Frederik is definitely not inarticulate. He's quotable.
I can actually quote several lines from these speeches.
I remember vividly Frederik meeting the press after the twins were born. It was a pleasure. Not only because it was a happy day, but also because Frederik was relaxed, completely unconcerned with the microphones and as such he was articulate.

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There is a line from Robert Graves' work I, Claudius, where the stutter inflicted emperor Claudius reminds everyone, "Isn't what a man has to say more important than how long it takes him to say it?" Apply it to Frederik. Isn't what he says more important than how he says?
It ought to be. But it isn't, if I don't understand your message or is distracted because of yoru speech pattern.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:20 PM
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This conversation will probably get moved to the Future of the Danish Monarchy thread but I'll respond here

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Originally Posted by puddytat View Post
And what exactly is that psychcological problem? Be careful here, you're diagnosing.

The fact is, Frederik has a choppy speech pattern, which he comes by naturally. He simply does not connect words smoothly. Listen to his mother. She still has her moments where she can't find the words either. For example, watch the video of her handing over automony to Greenland. She starts, stops, takes long pauses between phrases, searches for words. Where were the calls for her to get professional help after that performance?

No one's diagnosing, I just happened to bring up in the Future of the Danish Monarchy thread that Frederik might be suffering from cluttering as I have it as well and I notice several similarities (most of which you pointed out yourself with QMII as the example). Cluttering is psychological as it technically has no mechanical faults: in one's head what you are trying to say is perfect but when you actually speak it is mumbled and choppy.

What some people are criticizing here are his performances in interview situations. If you want to use the questions after Frederik's IOC election from those odious little reporters from EB as an example of Frederik not being able to handle the media, it's not a good example. We can see for ourselves what their agenda was from the actual q&a session and the backround shown during the Kongehuset Indefra documentary. Frederik was being harrassed by these men, who meant to embarrass him. They were the ones giving a very poor performance.

While I feel for Frederik during that press conference, the EB reporters would go after him even if he spoke eloquently all of the time, and the reporters would also have done that to any member of the Royal Family.

Fillers can be used as a pause to gather thoughts to form the next statement. They are not a crime. It's time to get off of Frederik's back about it, too. He has to be careful about what he says so as not to offend any political or social sensibilities. That can not be an easy thing to do for a man who is intelligent and thoughtful.

While fillers are great to gather thoughts, they can also sometimes end in the speaker actually losing their train of thought resulting in more "ums" and "uhs". Have you ever been asked by a writing/English teacher to write everything you're thinking and to not stop even if the thoughts get tangled or shoot off to another idea? The reason they do this is because you end up reaching your point faster if you continue writing/speaking then if you pause. I don't fault Frederik for using fillers as it's human, but their are reporters and critics who wait to pounce on it sadly.

Just as a test, how many people here can quote lines from Frederik's wedding speech? Or, a couple of memorable lines from the engagement interview. Or, his final lines from the speech he gave at this mother's last birthday party. Do you remember what he said at the press meeting after the twins birth? The line about worrying about two little beating hearts. Frederik is definitely not inarticulate. He's quotable.

99% of people are articulate when speaking about something they are passionate about. His family, especially his loving wife and the children he adores, are of course going to be something he can proudly talk about all the time. I also can quote lines from his wedding speech and the speech at his mother's 70th birthday dinner.

There is a line from Robert Graves' work I, Claudius, where the stutter inflicted emperor Claudius reminds everyone, "Isn't what a man has to say more important than how long it takes him to say it?" Apply it to Frederik. Isn't what he says more important than how he says?

I would love to agree with you here but we are in an age where you can't rely on "sitting on a horse, leading men into war, and writing a speech" to paraphrase King George V on the invention of the radio. All of your subjects plus the entire world hear you speak now instead of a few 'Yes Men' who lived at royal courts centuries ago.

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Correct. But I'd say Frederik's speech pattern is considerably worse than QMII. And QMII is 71, it may be a bit late to get professional help for her. Frederik is still fairly young.
Also, QMII had the advantage of being less in the media spotlight than Frederik will, for the first ten years or so of her reign. Nowadays there are cameras around at all sorts of events. Events you would reaf about in the papers 30 years ago. Plus: QMII has one more advantage: She's a woman. There is less quarter given for men.
Agreed, see my above statement about the changing world and how that involves royals. Social media, especially Twitter means you are on call 24/7 whether making a speech outside of your country or attending a local theatre privately with your wife (i.e. the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge in Wales)
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