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  #781  
Old 12-26-2018, 07:27 PM
Muhler's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Sad no family pictures at Marselisborg Castle and its Christmas decoration.
There never are. Only the family going to church.
Beforehand you would sometimes see members of the DRF jogging or something like that near Marselisborg, that is located right next to a forest.
But not anymore. Perhaps because taking pictures of people jogging or taking a walk in the forest and publish them, especially for commercial use, strictly speaking is a breach of their privacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliannaVictoria View Post
That would be incorrect. Final prayers and blessings are done after Holy Communion in the Lutheran church. Perhaps CPF had an emergency of some sort or is this a regular practice for him? I'm asking because I'm not a thorough follower of the Danish court.
I doubt very much there was any reason that compelled Frederik to leave the cathedral.
From the few times I go to church myself it's my impression that only the devout take Communion, everybody else leave before Communion.
Personally I've only attended Communion prior to and at my Confirmation many years ago.
Like I've mentioned before. Most Danes going to church during Christmas, do so because it's a family tradition (a kind of outing), it's cozy and/or to enjoy the atmosphere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Well, in Lutheran theology, an atheist who lives a pious life based pretty much on Christian principles is, nonetheless, not "saved" as a sinner, according to Luther, cannot be justified by meritous works, but rather only by divine grace, which in turn is obtained solely by faith in Jesus Christ.

Should I infer that final prayers and blessings are said before communion in the Church of Denmark ?
I see. No backdoor, eh?
As for your question, that I think we should let our resident theologian, FasterB, handle. But she's likely pretty busy these days!

Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
Yep! The van even has a little stair:

https://www.therealmyroyals.com/wp-c...018/12/a18.jpg

How cool is that! Much better than the Queen of England's Bentley (from a brand which is also german owned (VW)).

The van has a more modern approach and not so baroque...
Yes, foot boards/running boards (?) have gone out of use on cars. They were pretty practical.
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  #782  
Old 12-27-2018, 11:19 AM
Muhler's Avatar
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Oh joy, Christmas is saved, Daily Mail has the story:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...al-family.html

Different photos. Notice Josephine's missing tooth.
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  #783  
Old 12-27-2018, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Do you mean Buddhist?]
Oh no, I do mean catholic, because catholics don't share communiom with protestants and PH was, after all, catholic from birth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I doubt very much there was any reason that compelled Frederik to leave the cathedral.
From the few times I go to church myself it's my impression that only the devout take Communion, everybody else leave before Communion.
It´s not common for the congregation to leave before communion. If you don't take part in the communion, you simply stay seated and wait for the communion to be over (usually it takes 3-5 minutes on a normal Sunday).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I am not familiar with the Lutheran order of service. In the Catholic mass and, I believe, also in Anglican services, final prayers and blessings follow communion, so it is unusual for someone to leave the church before communion. If one doesn't want to take communion, which is perfectly fine, he/she simply stays on his/her seat while the consecrated bread and wine are being distributed (note: contrary to what happens in some Protestant churches, Catholics stand up and form a line to receive communion from the priest or a lay minister who is authorized to distribute it).


Should I infer that final prayers and blessings are said before communion in the Church of Denmark ?
As for your question, that I think we should let our resident theologian, FasterB, handle. But she's likely pretty busy these days!
The final prayers and the aronitic blessing will follow the communion. So CP Frederik didn't receive the aronitic blessing at Christmas Day.
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  #784  
Old 12-27-2018, 03:49 PM
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Lovely photos from Christmas Day. Interesting that the children didn't go though they were probably more interested in opening and playing with their new presents!
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  #785  
Old 12-27-2018, 05:49 PM
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Since Aarhus Cathedral (Aarhus Domkirke in DK) has such a prominent role for the DRF during Christmas I thought we should have a closer look at it.

The current church was first build between 1190-1300. And it was extensively rebuilt in 1420-1480. And as such became the largest and most important church in Aarhus. In fact it's the largest church in DK, being 93 meters long and 98 meters tall.
In fact even though it's only known as Aarhus Domkirke, it's real name is Sct. Clemens Kirke.

The church is flanked to two sides by a square.
As is evident from the exterior of the cathedral:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...s_domkirke.jpg
https://www.arkmedic.dk/wp-content/u...3/domkirke.jpg
https://www.cabinn.com/sites/default...DSC_8330_0.jpg
This such an amazing photo! Prior to at least the mid 1800s the tower would vanish up into the dark sky at night. Or stand silhouetted imposingly against the night clouds.
https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram...59220480_n.jpg
https://aarhusdomkirke.dk/wordpress/...ra-teatret.jpg

Fortunately the cathedral has not been dwarfed by the building of nearby tall buildings.
In fact the church is to this day a prominent feature, when you approach Aarhus from the sea:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._dokken-CN.jpg

Here is the entrance to the cathedral and this is where the DRF are photographed at Christmas.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...0a/Indgang.jpg

Going inside:
https://i1.wp.com/aarhuspanorama.dk/...1%2C1067&ssl=1
1.200 worshipers can be seated there.
https://i0.wp.com/aarhuspanorama.dk/...ize=1200%2C800

A closer look at the church ship:
https://i1.wp.com/aarhuspanorama.dk/...ize=1200%2C800
Judging from the style, this is a ship of the line from around the mid 1700s.

The alter is the largest in DK and it's the original from the 1470's:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/352/19...7d88743f_b.jpg

Apart from that the church is full of details. It did after all start out as a Catholic cathedral:
http://skjultesteder.dk/images/infor...3/dscf8559.jpg

Including the Danish coat of arms, placed in front of one of the three organs:
https://www.orgelselskabet.org/wp-co...-Frobenius.jpg

For the first few hundred years the mass was conducted in Latin, which few of the worshipers understood, so in typical fashion, the church made sure there were "comics" on the walls to hammer home what it was all about to the congregation.
This illustrates the world. Heaven, Earth and Hell:
http://aarhusdomkirke.dk/wordpress/w...lesbillede.jpg
Judging from the clothes and fashion I'll say this is from the 1400s.

The pulpit is from 1588:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...usDom-03-1.jpg

The baptismal font is from 1481.
https://aarhusdomkirke.dk/wordpress/...8befont-PR.jpg

The floorplan:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rplan_1879.JPG

- No wonder QMII likes to go there, eh?
Plenty to look at should the sermon become a little eh... tiresome.
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  #786  
Old 12-27-2018, 06:09 PM
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Great photos and info thanks Muhler. I never expected the Kirke to be so large. A gorgeous church with a lot of history.
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  #787  
Old 12-27-2018, 06:28 PM
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Muhler, thank you for the information and all the wonderful links. What an amazing building and fascinating history. The thing that is striking to me is how massive that central tower is, and how it completely dominates everything around it. It's as though the builders were saying "This is God's house, and you better not forget it."
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  #788  
Old 12-27-2018, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
Muhler, thank you for the information and all the wonderful links. What an amazing building and fascinating history. The thing that is striking to me is how massive that central tower is, and how it completely dominates everything around it. It's as though the builders were saying "This is God's house, and you better not forget it."
I'm in no doubt that was exactly the intention!
Very much in contrast to the nearby earlier, smaller and I dare say more feminine cathedral Vor Frue Kirke (The Church of Our Lady).
https://mapio.net/images-p/12113804.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rhus%29_02.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rke_Aarhus.jpg

This church, which QMII is very familiar with vis a vis her keen interest in archeology, was completed in its present form around 1250. But it's actually much older. In the basement is the oldest surviving stone-church in Scandinavia, from 1060.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ryptkirken.jpg
From the days when Aarhus was young, only a couple of hundred years.

The church, named Sankt Nikolai Kirke, (but only known as Vor Frue Kirke = The Church of Our Lady) was the first cathedral in Aarhus, until the present one took over in the 1200s.

Later on in 1227, the church was a part of a Dominican abbey.
They eventually left after the Reformation in 1536.
In DK cloisters and abbeys were not torn down or subjected to plunder like in other countries. (There were after all way too many unmarried sons and daughters of those in power living in these places for that to be acceptable.)
So while a number of cloisters and abbeys were shut down or amalgamated, those monks and nuns who chose to remain in Denmark and chose to remain Catholic were allowed to stay until they died. The last one dying a few decades later.
A very civilized religious revolution I think.

Today most of the abbey is gone, but the church remains.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rke_Aarhus.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7443/...f07e7e17_b.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rke_Aarhus.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8XwoFbaKNm...23+Kirke+5.jpg
The church ship looks to me like a model of the school ship Danmark. A contemporary with the royal yacht Dannebrog (they were build at the same yard) she is still around:
https://images.amtsavisen.dk/64/2956...204_2003_2.jpg
Presumably the model was made and donated by a former crew member. Of which there have been many thousands, a couple of thousands of which were Americans training for the US Coast Guard during WWII.
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  #789  
Old 12-27-2018, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
BTW Congratulations, JR76. I see you have rounded your first 2.000 posts.
Thanks for noticing! :) I had no idea myself since things like that don't show on the mobile app.
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  #790  
Old 12-28-2018, 04:30 PM
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Thank you Muhler for the interesting detail. A beautiful church, but quite plain in comparison to our churches here in England (though most lutheran churches are plainer in decoration).
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  #791  
Old 12-30-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Thank you Muhler for the interesting detail. A beautiful church, but quite plain in comparison to our churches here in England (though most lutheran churches are plainer in decoration).
From what I gather, Lutheran churches in Scandinavia are not as plain as those in Germany etc In fact, some are quiet elaborate.
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  #792  
Old 12-30-2018, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I'm in no doubt that was exactly the intention!
Very much in contrast to the nearby earlier, smaller and I dare say more feminine cathedral Vor Frue Kirke (The Church of Our Lady).
https://mapio.net/images-p/12113804.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rhus%29_02.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rke_Aarhus.jpg

This church, which QMII is very familiar with vis a vis her keen interest in archeology, was completed in its present form around 1250. But it's actually much older. In the basement is the oldest surviving stone-church in Scandinavia, from 1060.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ryptkirken.jpg
From the days when Aarhus was young, only a couple of hundred years.

The church, named Sankt Nikolai Kirke, (but only known as Vor Frue Kirke = The Church of Our Lady) was the first cathedral in Aarhus, until the present one took over in the 1200s.

Later on in 1227, the church was a part of a Dominican abbey.
They eventually left after the Reformation in 1536.
In DK cloisters and abbeys were not torn down or subjected to plunder like in other countries. (There were after all way too many unmarried sons and daughters of those in power living in these places for that to be acceptable.)
So while a number of cloisters and abbeys were shut down or amalgamated, those monks and nuns who chose to remain in Denmark and chose to remain Catholic were allowed to stay until they died. The last one dying a few decades later.
A very civilized religious revolution I think.

Today most of the abbey is gone, but the church remains.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rke_Aarhus.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7443/...f07e7e17_b.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rke_Aarhus.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8XwoFbaKNm...23+Kirke+5.jpg
The church ship looks to me like a model of the school ship Danmark. A contemporary with the royal yacht Dannebrog (they were build at the same yard) she is still around:
https://images.amtsavisen.dk/64/2956...204_2003_2.jpg
Presumably the model was made and donated by a former crew member. Of which there have been many thousands, a couple of thousands of which were Americans training for the US Coast Guard during WWII.
Dear Muhler, I add my thanks to the many already offered for your thoughtful insights on Danish churches. I am curious however about the 'church ship'. No doubt you have explained this before, but is the 'church ship' a standard item in Danish churches?
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  #793  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerry View Post
Dear Muhler, I add my thanks to the many already offered for your thoughtful insights on Danish churches. I am curious however about the 'church ship'. No doubt you have explained this before, but is the 'church ship' a standard item in Danish churches?
You are most welcome.

Pretty much! About half of the some 1.200 Danish churches have one or several church ships.
Such ships are always donated to the church, it's never acquired.

The thing about church ships is known all over Europe in places that is connected to the sea from the 1400s, but in DK it's known with certainty from the 1500s. - But while known elsewhere in Europe, there is no other country where church ships are so common as in DK.
There are also quite a few church ships in present day northern Germany, and as most of them fly Dannebrog this is a Danish custom that has been maintained there.

The church ship is hand made and donated to a church by a someone who has gone through and survived a serious crisis. be that a shipwreck or an illness. It's a kind of offering to God and the church.

The main structure of any church in DK, from the entrance to the alter is in DK also called a church ship, and keep in mind that ships were often used for burial in th Viking age and for thousands of years before that, so ships, at least in DK, is closely linked to faith - apparently regardless of the religion.

There are various theories to what these ships symbolize.
It may be an indirect talisman for the locals so to speak. I.e. the church ships would help protect their relatives on sea.
It may likely be a symbol of life. I.e. with Christ at the helm the congregation will steer safely through life.
Or the journey from Earth to Heaven.
For port towns ships were a source of pride, so it may be only natural to also have church ships in the local churches.
It may simply be that Danish seamen saw church ships in Catholic countries and brought the custom with them home, where it developed a symbolic meaning that may differ from the original meaning.

- I think the truth is a mix of all of the above, and more. It depends on your view I guess.
So the symbolism you (or anyone else) see in a church ship, is IMO just as good as any other.

Here are some more church ships:
This is believed to be the oldest church ship in the world. It's from Rotterdam and dates from the 1400s:
http://kirkeskibet.dk/Eendigitaleksp...s/image004.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...agen_ship1.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hagen_ship.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hagen_ship.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...irkeskib_b.JPG
https://www.thas.dk/wp-content/uploa...sser-Kirke.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hagen_ship.jpg
And this is positively wonderful!
http://denstoredanske.dk/@api/deki/f.../=24188484.jpg

Presenting a new ship:
http://maarsletegnsarkiv.dk/2_maarsl...eskib_1987.jpg
They are fortunately still made.
https://www.kristendom.dk/sites/defa.../05/288284.jpg
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  #794  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:01 PM
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BB has finally caught up with the DRF events around Christmas.

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #01, 2019.
Written by Ken Richter.

In contrast to the other BB reporters Ken Richter writes about what he observes himself or is told himself and keep speculation and the sugary fill to a minimum.
So you can rely on that what he writes is what he has seen himself. (*)
Here covering the Christmas services on the 24th 25th and 26th.

The DRF arrived en masse in the afternoon on the 24th to Aarhus Cathedral where the 1.200 seat were all occupied. Except for a small screened off area near the baptismal font, reserved for the DRF.
That area consisted of three rows of chairs.
QMII sat in the middle in the front row with the smallest of her grandchildren. Henrik, Vincent, Athena and Josephine flanking to both sides.
On the second row sat Christian, Frederik, Mary, our Marie, Nikolai and Isabella.
On the third row sat Joachim with Felix.

During the service Vincent was observed making a spyglass from the booklet with psalms. There was a good deal of cheerful chatting between the children and their parents and farmor Margrethe.
Margrethe and Mary sang along to the psalms.

The DRF arrived as the last and left as the first. (**) On both occasions the congregation stood up as a sign of respect.

Felix and Henrik were seen arriving in the same car as their farmor. The rest of the family presumably arrived in the van.

On the 25th the adults of the DRF arrived for the high-mass. (Not sure how to translate the correctly. But it's a long service.) Which may be why the children were left behind.
On this occasion it was royal confessionarius, Henrik Wigh-Poulsen, who was in charge of the mass.
Just as PH always did, Frederik as the only one left before communion.

On the 26th QMII was the only one to attend service.

(*) However, it happens he gets distracted. I clearly remember him using half an article to write about a vintage car.
I'm not sure that was of particular interest to the majority of regular readers of BB.

(**) Just like in the navy. The highest ranking enter the boat as the last, but leave the boat as the first.

- This weeks scans will eventually be posted in the general DRF thread along with an account of how QMII celebrated her New Years Eve.
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