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Old 04-16-2014, 05:12 PM
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Danish Royal and National Flags

It is no secret that we Danes are pretty obsessed about our flag and that we have a multitude of laws, rules and guidelines regarding when and how to fly our flag.

This thread will offer a rough guide as to some of these many rules.

Also, this thread will also show the various flags used by the DRF.

Let's start at the beginning. According to legend a flag fell from the sky during a battle in Estonia in 1219, that led to the Danish army to victory.
Whatever the details a red flag with a white cross was shortly after acknowledged and recogniced as the flag of the Danes. It was not yet the flag of the realm, that remained the Monarchs heraldic banner until around the end of the Middle ages.
Being a simple and easily recognisible flag Dannebrog was eventually used as a national identification by ships and armies.
Until the First Schleswigan War 1848-51, it was actually only the king, ships, army unit and certain officals who were allowed to use Dannebrog, but the huge national feelings during that war led to ordinary people using the flag as well.
Since then it has become THE national symbol of DK and it is viewed with something as close to veneration as you can come here in DK.
Perhaps not surprising as it is considered the oldest official national flag in the world in use today.

Dannebrog, is a Medieval word that really means something like "the sheet/banner of the Danes".

Let's go to the flags used by the DRF.
They are like all other official flags in DK, including colours used by military units, a Dannebrog with some heraldic symbol.

https://app.box.com/s/23h7a8qepamdhs5ckiak

The top flag, Kongeflaget, is used only by the Monarch. It flies over any residence within the Danish realm where the Monarch has set up her official residence. As this is written the official residence now is Marselisborg Slot.

The next flag, HKH Kronprinsens Flag is used by the Crown Prince. And it flies over any building where he lives. Right now that is mainly only the manor at Amalienborg, or if they have gone to Trend, over the lodge there, or over Kancellihuset at Fredensborg when they move in for the summer.
The flag will also fly from one of the masts at the royal yacht Dannebrog when M&F are onboard during the visit to Greenland this summer.

The third flag is officially known as Dronningeflaget = the Flag of the Queen. It is now used by Prince Henrik. And it flies over a royal residence, if the Monarch herself is not there.
When Mary becomes queen, she will be using this flag.

The fourth flag, Rigsforstanderflaget, is used only by the Rigsforstander. Normally it will fly over the manor of Joachim or Benedikte at Amalienborg, if one of them is Rigsforstander. Alternatively over Schackenborg if Joachim happens to live there.

The fifth flag is the DRF flag and it is used by all other adult members of the DRF where they are in residence. So if Frederik is out of the country, this flag will fly over M&F's mansion at Amalienborg, or whereever Mary happens to live.
It is also used by the DRF administration at the Yellow Mansion next to Amalienborg.

The last flag is used by official buildings, state ships and navy ships. The navy hue is, as the only one, deeper than all other variations of Dannebrog.
Such a flag will also fly over military barracks, but regimental colours do not have dovetails.
Only official flags are allowed to use dowetails! Everybody else must use a normal rectangular Dannebrog.

At the Navy Yard , Holmen, in Copenhagen harbour is a flagpost, with the Flag of the Realm. It is considered the official flag of Denmark and as such it is the foremost flag in DK at all!

The next post will deal with some, repeat some, of the many, many rules around Dannebrog.


Let's have a look at the many rules, regulations, laws and guidelines regarding flying Dannebrog.

Dannebrog must not fly before 08.00 in the morning or before the sun gets up, whatever comes first.
And it must be lowered no later than 18.00 in the evening or before sunset, whatever comes first.
If you fly Dannebrog in the dark, you pay tribute to the Devil.

One exception is if you direct a spotlight directly at Dannebrog during the dark hours. That's very rare here in DK and I have in fact never seen it myself.

Dannebrog must never ever touch the ground! That is a major insult to the flag, and you can rest assured that someone will point it out if you should be so clumsy as to allow that to happen.

When Dannebrog is lowered or raised, and if we are to be pedantic, people should stand up and face the flagpole. Men should take off their hats, except for military personel who salute or stand to attention. Women however are allowed to keep their hats or headscarves on. - Yes, it's an old rule.

No other flag must fly higher than Dannebrog. Except actually for international flags like the EU and UN flags, - but that rule is ignored by most. If you are to fly another national flag alongside or near Dannebrog it requires a permission from the police.

There are guidelines about the height of flagpoles in relation to the building it is attached to or standing next to. No such thing as a two meter flagpole next to a two story house! Nor a 30 meter flagpole next to a one floor house.
The flags dimensions must also be in relation to the height of the flagpole. Otherwise it is considered a mockery of the flag.

Many people, including myself, feel that a flagpole should never be naked. So when it is not a flagday or Dannebrog has been lowered a pennant will fly from the flagpole 24/7.

If you fly Dannebrog at half mast, it first have to go all the way up, before being lowered to two-thirds of the height of the flagpole.
At noon the flag must be raised to full mast and remain there the rest of the day.
But if you are to lower Dannebrog from half mast, it must be raised to full height first before it can be lowered. Otherwise you are disrespecting the flag and the deseased or the event.

When a flag becomes old and needs to be discarded, (a raggy flag is a major no, no!) it must be folded neatly and placed on a clean fire. There are no other proper ways of disposing of an old Dannebrog but burning it.

When Dannebrog is draped on a coffin, the red squares of the flag must be draped over the head end of the coffin, never the other way around. That would be like hanging a cross upside down.

- That must be enough for now, more rules may come up.
Flagdays are next.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:26 PM
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These are the official flagdays where Dannebrog will fly from official buildings and if private citizens and companies wish to, all other flagpoles as well.

1. January. - In celebration of the new year.

5. February - Mary's birthday.

6. February - our Marie's birthday.

9. April - The occupation of Denmark 1940. Dannebrog will fly from half mast until noon.

16. April. - QMII's birthday.

Good Friday. - The only day Dannebrog remain on half mast all day. In mourning and in respect of the death and suffering of Christ.

Easter Sunday.

29. April. - Benedikte's birthday.

5. May - The Liberation of Denmark 1945.

26. May. - Frederik's birthday.

Christ's Ascension.

5. June - Constitution Day.

7. June. - Joachim's birthday.

Whit Sunday.

11. June. - PH's birthday. (It is also here in DK the Devil's Birthday. - And being the Devil he has birthday twice a year and traditionally mortgages were due on these two days. The second being 11. December).

15. June. - Valdemar Day, or Dannebrog's birthday. i.e. the day Dannebrog fell from the sky.

5. September. - The official Flagday, for people who have served abroad.

25. December. - Christmas Day.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Right now that is mainly only the manor at Amalienborg, or if they have gone to Trend, over the lodge there, or over Kancellihuset at Fredensborg when they move in for the summer.
Do you think that the flag is raised there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
One exception is if you direct a spotlight directly at Dannebrog during the dark hours. That's very rare here in DK and I have in fact never seen it myself.
I have seen it at hotels, inns and so on

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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Dannebrog must never ever touch the ground! That is a major insult to the flag, and you can rest assured that someone will point it out if you should be so clumsy as to allow that to happen.
And if Dannebrog touches the ground you´ll have to burn it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
If you fly Dannebrog at half mast, it first have to go all the way up, before being lowered to two-thirds of the height of the flagpole.
At noon the flag must be raised to full mast and remain there the rest of the day.
Except at funerals where you raise the flag when jordpåkastelsen has been said. Jordpåkastelse = where the priest casts earth on the coffin and says " From dust you have come. To dust you shall be. From dust you will raise again".

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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Good Friday. - The only day Dannebrog remain on half mast all day. In mourning and in respect of the death and suffering of Christ.
And this rule overrules all other rules on Good Friday
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:56 AM
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Thanks Muhler and FasterB.

When does Christian start having a flagday? Will all the Danish children have flagdays or only the children of Frederik and Mary?
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
Do you think that the flag is raised there?
Oh yes, I recall an aerial photo of Trend with one of the royal flags flying. Not just a normal Dannebrog.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
I have seen it at hotels, inns and so on
I've never seen, nor noticed it myself, and certainly not over here, perhaps there are differencies regionally?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
Except at funerals where you raise the flag when jordpåkastelsen has been said. Jordpåkastelse = where the priest casts earth on the coffin and says " From dust you have come. To dust you shall be. From dust you will raise again".
Thanks, for the additional details, FasterB. Yes, there is an entire booklet about the countless rules and traditions regarding Dannebrog. So please add more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marfre View Post
Thanks Muhler and FasterB.

When does Christian start having a flagday? Will all the Danish children have flagdays or only the children of Frederik and Mary?
You're welcome.
When he turns eightteen.

And yes, I'm sure all the children who are in the Line of Succession will eventually have a flagday. - But mind you by then QMII, PH and Benedikte are probably dead, so that sort of reduces the number of days.
Also, I don't think it's likely that spouses of Joachim's children will have a flagday either. And probably not those spouses of M&F's children who settle abroad either.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:11 AM
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Interesting about the rules and regulations for flying the Dannebrog. I am sure the for Danes the Dannebrog is unique.

However, in other EU countries, one frequently sees the Dannebrog flying at the same height as other flags.

Also, the flags of Sweden, Norway, Finland, Faeroes, Aalands, and Iceland have similar Nordic crosses, and while of course Danes will regard the Dannebrog as unique, people outside Nordic countries will tend to regard the Dannebrog as one of a number of Nordic flags. The fact that the Dannebrog is the oldest of the flags does put it into perspective.

Also, Denmark's uneasy relations with Germany in the past - though today they are very good - has highlighted the Dannebrog as somewhat of a symbol of defiance, as for example following the Danish defeat at Dybboel in 1864. It evokes both memories of defeat but also of the moral rectitude of the weak which in the long term was to be vindicated. Germany is the only country with which Denmark has a land border (although there is now a bridge to Sweden), and psychologically the shifting of the border between Denmark and what became a united Germany in the 19th century was very evocative. Indeed, one of the most complicated questions of 19th century European history was the Schleswig-Holstein question: where exactly should the border run? something that was hotly debated for many years and for which the Dannebrog took on an aura of deep symbolism and defiance.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:19 AM
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You nailed it, MarcosFenn

The Schleswigan Wars are indeed the key to the modern day reverence of Dannebrog.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:18 PM
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The fourth flag, Rigsforstanderflaget, is used only by the Rigsforstander. Normally it will fly over the manor of Joachim or Benedikte at Amalienborg, if one of them is Rigsforstander. Alternatively over Schackenborg if Joachim happens to live there.
thank you Muhler for all of this. I truly enjoy reading about it and learning

Is there a special flag when Frederik is regent or would it just be the Crown prince flag?
Does Joachim have a special flag when he is not Rigsforstander? would he use the adult member one?
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:48 PM
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You are welcome, Polyesco

And you've got it.

Only the Crown Prince can be regent, so Frederik use his own flag.

And Joachim use the general DRF flag. Except when he is Rigsforstander.
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Old 04-17-2014, 01:54 PM
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You nailed it, MarcosFenn

The Schleswigan Wars are indeed the key to the modern day reverence of Dannebrog.
It seems that the former situation of Schleswig-Holstein vis-a-vis the Danish monarch was similar to what prevailed in Luxembourg in the 19th century: The Dutch monarch was sovereign, but not as King or Queen, but rather as (Grand) Duke. Conflicting geopolitical interests could in the eyes of some people be over-simplified if matters were supposedly reduced to a perceived, straightforward conflict or paradigm between Danish nationality and the emerging German concept of nationhood.

French republicans sometimes use somewhat mystical terminology about what are claimed as the 'natural frontiers' of France, whereas the reality is probably more nuanced.

And how could one talk about 'natural frontiers' in Schleswig-Holstein, especially in the 19th century before Germany was united into one country and particularly with regard to the fact that nearby Oldenburg used to belonged to Sweden in any case?

I like to think that one can be very respectful of national symbols and history, without necessarily having to accept sweeping nationalist formulae.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:19 PM
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Oh yes, I recall an aerial photo of Trend with one of the royal flags flying. Not just a normal Dannebrog.
Ok
Quote:
I've never seen, nor noticed it myself, and certainly not over here, perhaps there are differencies regionally?
Yes, it could be regional differences
Quote:
Thanks, for the additional details, FasterB. Yes, there is an entire booklet about the countless rules and traditions regarding Dannebrog. So please add more.
You´re welcome
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:34 PM
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Well, MarcusFenn.

This goes deeper and it's more complicated than that.

The reverence for Dannebrog, started as nationalism, true. The 1840's being a period were nationalist sentiments surfaced in earnest here in Europe. Not least during conflicts, naturally.
1864 and the Danes worship of our flag, (because that's what is basically is,) was a deeply traumatized people, now living in a country that came very close to cease existing, a country that had lost a war and been reduced to insignificance, gathering around (and indeed finding comfort) around one symbol all could agree on. Dannebrog.

These feelings were again brought to life during WWII. During very uncertain times, where no one knew what the future might bring. During an occupation where our flag again became a symbol all could rally around, whether that was in defiance or just to find solace. Because people were afraid and when that happens you need something to hold on to.
The feelings for our flag that persists to this day, are based in the flag being such a strong symbol during genuine national emergencies, 1864, WWII and today EU. Combined with the fact that Dannebrog has remained unchanged for many centuries.

That continues to this day. I will not speak for my fellow Danes here on TRF. For myself Dannebrog is a very strong symbol, way stronger than the DRF.
The examples of rules regarding Dannebrog I mentioned above, are sentiments I genuinely share.
To me this is not something academic or abstract. I will be angry if I see someone allow Dannebrog to touch the ground or otherwise disrespect the flag.
It may not be rational, but nor is it mere nationalism, it goes down to the very core of my indentity.

The DRF are the foremost members of my tribe, but Dannebrog is the foremost symbol of my tribe. The whole tribe.
Do you follow me?
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:05 PM
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That continues to this day. I will not speak for my fellow Danes here on TRF. For myself Dannebrog is a very strong symbol, way stronger than the DRF.
The examples of rules regarding Dannebrog I mentioned above, are sentiments I genuinely share.
To me this is not something academic or abstract. I will be angry if I see someone allow Dannebrog to touch the ground or otherwise disrespect the flag.
It may not be rational, but nor is it mere nationalism, it goes down to the very core of my indentity.

The DRF are the foremost members of my tribe, but Dannebrog is the foremost symbol of my tribe. The whole tribe.
Do you follow me?
I follow you on this one, Muhler Except that I align the DRF and Danneborg as equal strong symbols
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:20 PM
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Well, MarcusFenn.

This goes deeper and it's more complicated than that.

The reverence for Dannebrog, started as nationalism, true. The 1840's being a period were nationalist sentiments surfaced in earnest here in Europe. Not least during conflicts, naturally.
1864 and the Danes worship of our flag, (because that's what is basically is,) was a deeply traumatized people, now living in a country that came very close to cease existing, a country that had lost a war and been reduced to insignificance, gathering around (and indeed finding comfort) around one symbol all could agree on. Dannebrog.

These feelings were again brought to life during WWII. During very uncertain times, where no one knew what the future might bring. During an occupation where our flag again became a symbol all could rally around, whether that was in defiance or just to find solace. Because people were afraid and when that happens you need something to hold on to.
The feelings for our flag that persists to this day, are based in the flag being such a strong symbol during genuine national emergencies, 1864, WWII and today EU. Combined with the fact that Dannebrog has remained unchanged for many centuries.

That continues to this day. I will not speak for my fellow Danes here on TRF. For myself Dannebrog is a very strong symbol, way stronger than the DRF.
The examples of rules regarding Dannebrog I mentioned above, are sentiments I genuinely share.
To me this is not something academic or abstract. I will be angry if I see someone allow Dannebrog to touch the ground or otherwise disrespect the flag.
It may not be rational, but nor is it mere nationalism, it goes down to the very core of my indentity.

The DRF are the foremost members of my tribe, but Dannebrog is the foremost symbol of my tribe. The whole tribe.
Do you follow me?
Leaving aside references to the royal family, an American of impeccably republican convictions could express very similar thoughts to yours about the Star Spangled Banner.

In Canada, it seems to work differently.

I like and respect the Maple Leaf flag, but it dates from only 1965. For me, issues of worship are not connected with the Maple Leaf, except maybe the very general idea of freedom of conscience which Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms refers to. For myself, I would not think of trying to use the Maple Leaf somehow to impose a 'tribal' viewpoint on someone else's conscience.

There is not one national language, but two.

The Queen is The Queen of Canada, yet does not reside in Canada ordinarily.

Does the relative absence of strong nationalist sentiment in Canada make my Canadian citizenship somehow less real? I don't think so.

If I were to try to look at my Canadian citizenship by means of identification with a 'tribe', I really don't know which tribe this would be. In Canada, multiculturalism is the official policy.

Every country is different.
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:37 PM
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Leaving aside references to the royal family, an American of impeccably republican convictions could express very similar thoughts to yours about the Star Spangled Banner.
Absolutely. And so could people from many other countries.
As the Americans are known to be very fond of their flag in general, I don't think political convictions are the primary reason. - Anyway, politically speaking I would make a poor Republican. Nor would I be a particular good Democrat for that matter.

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In Canada, it seems to work differently.

I like and respect the Maple Leaf flag, but it dates from only 1965.

There is not one national language, but two.

The Queen is The Queen of Canada, yet does not reside in Canada ordinarily.

Does the relative absence of strong nationalist sentiment in Canada make my Canadian citizenship somehow less real? I don't think so.
No, why should it? And that's not what I said.
I think you illustrated yourself the difference in the view on our flags.
Though I dare say the French Canadians may understand what I mean, when I talk about my tribe.
As I understand you, you in contrast to me do not (personally at least) consider The Maple Leaf to be the stongest symbol of your country, of your national identity.
That just makes us different.

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Every country is different.
Indeed.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:04 PM
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Absolutely. And so could people from many other countries.
As the Americans are known to be very fond of their flag in general, I don't think political convictions are the primary reason. - Anyway, politically speaking I would make a poor Republican. Nor would I be a particular good Democrat for that matter.



No, why should it? And that's not what I said.
I think you illustrated yourself the difference in the view on our flags.
Though I dare say the French Canadians may understand what I mean, when I talk about my tribe.
As I understand you, you in contrast to me do not (personally at least) consider The Maple Leaf to be the stongest symbol of your country, of your national identity.
That just makes us different.



Indeed.
Actually I mean 'republican' with a small 'r'... :) In the sense that Americans don't have a royal family.

As regards the Canadian Maple Leaf flag, around 1963/64/65 there was a lot of huffing and puffing about the design of the Maple Leaf. The ex-Prime Minister John Diefenbaker complained about the design. He actually complained about a lot of things and had many interesting and intriguing ideas. (Such as accepting nuclear missiles but then having them filled with sand; which confused many Americans and Canadians. Such as privately viewing the photos of Soviet missiles in Cuba that JFK sent him, and then publicly saying, Maybe the UN should investigate whether what JFK says is really true? which confused a lot of people also, including - as it happened - JFK.)

Today, the Maple Leaf flag is such a widely accepted symbol of Canada that it is hard to imagine anything else that would replace it. Although it was first hoist above Parliament Hill, in Ottawa only in 1965, its three horizontal stripes of red, white and red closely resemble the flag of the Royal Military College, Kingston, Ontario, and it was decided to use this basic pattern with the addition of a Maple Leaf, which was already a long established Canadian symbol. Horizontal stripes of red, white and red were also already used on the ribbons of medals awarded in Canada in the 19th century.

I like the Quebec provincial flag also. It dates from 1948.

In Canada, The Queen flies her own standard. She is represented Federally by the Governor-General and Provincially by Lieutenant-Governors.

Come to think of it, both the Danish and Canadian flags are red and white.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:17 PM
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Thanks for telling about the Canadian flag.

And it's always comforting to learn than politicians are silly in other countries as well...

The symbolism in regards to flags is indeed strong. I've recently learned about the debate in Australia and New Zealand about changing the flags to be purely Australian and New Zealand symbols, i.e. cutting the symbolic connection with Britain.
That has met strong opposition, not because people are against the flags becoming more national, but because the existing flags have meant so much to so many during difficult times, especially the World Wars.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:04 PM
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Thanks for telling about the Canadian flag.

And it's always comforting to learn than politicians are silly in other countries as well...

The symbolism in regards to flags is indeed strong. I've recently learned about the debate in Australia and New Zealand about changing the flags to be purely Australian and New Zealand symbols, i.e. cutting the symbolic connection with Britain.
That has met strong opposition, not because people are against the flags becoming more national, but because the existing flags have meant so much to so many during difficult times, especially the World Wars.
Yes, well I mentioned about the Canadian flag because, well, I'm Canadian and because it is widely and hugely accepted as a symbol of Canada.

It's interesting that in some monarchical countries, national sentiment and monarchy seem to go hand in hand. In Denmark, there doesn't seem to be any contradiction between monarchy and nationhood.

In other countries, nationalism and republicanism seem to have been attuned to each other. In France, the Ancien Régime was perceived as being out of touch; Marie Antoinette, on being told that people did not have enough bread to eat, notoriously said 'Let them eat cake'. (Pierre Trudeau's own version of the phrase wasn't printable.)

It seems to me that while the King of Denmark chose to stay in Denmark during German occupation in World War Two, and the King of Norway chose to go into exile, yet the monarchy in both Denmark and Norway continued to represent a very strong sense of nationhood.

Whenever I have seen the offices of Danish, Norwegian or Swedish consulates in various cities, the crown symbols are always very prominent on the plaques fixed near the entrances.

In Belgium, in WW2 Leopold III first chose to stay in Brussels after surrendering; then he was deported by the Nazis; then after the war he decided he preferred to go and live in Switzerland rather than go back to live in Belgium; the Belgian government in exile had been upset that Leopold under Nazi rule married someone in a religious ceremony before doing in a civil ceremony; the government thought he ought to have had a civil marriage first and then a religious one; in turn, Leopold was upset that the government was upset with him. In fact, Belgium did not have strong republican sentiment. although it does exist; Belgians preferred firstly Leopold's brother Charles as Regent and subsequently his son Baudouin as King. The monarchy continues to be a uniting factor in the linguistically diverse country. (I lived in Belgium.)

Regarding Australian, New Zealander and Canadian commemoration of war dead, as Commonwealth countries they all contributed substantially to the war effort in both the First and Second World War. As Commonwealth countries, the history of service in uniform, at great personal cost in some cases, is all part of their past. Interestingly, members of the Royal family still preside over military regiments in Canada. It's sometimes hard to separate the various overlapping strands of the past.

Several of the Canadian provincial flags have the Union Jack on them.

I suppose in Australia one could even argue in the other direction: British Prime Minister Harold Wilson kept Britain out of Vietnam; while Australian Prime Minister Harold Holt was persuaded by Lyndon Johnson to send troops to Vietnam. I'm not sure that Harold Holt can be portrayed as a brave symbol of someone who successfully cut Imperial ties... or something like that. In the end, it's a matter for the Australians.

Isn't there a city Down Under called Dannevirke? Maybe it was founded by Danes.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:45 PM
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Yes, well I mentioned about the Canadian flag because, well, I'm Canadian and because it is widely and hugely accepted as a symbol of Canada.
Perfectly understandable.


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It's interesting that in some monarchical countries, national sentiment and monarchy seem to go hand in hand. In Denmark, there doesn't seem to be any contradiction between monarchy and nationhood.
None whatsoever.
The Danish monarchy came before Denmark became a nation. The first kings who formed Denmark as an acknowledged nation are the direct ancestors of QMII. So the nation and the monarchy go hand in hand through history. And as Denmark officially became a nation in the early 900's that's a very long walk.
DK was a proto-nation centuries before that and the kings didn't just come from nowhere, they had also been around for a long time before the 900's.
Apart from that peasantry and burghers in DK usually sided with the kings against the nobillity until the early 1700's.

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In other countries, nationalism and republicanism seem to have been attuned to each other. In France, the Ancien Régime was perceived as being out of touch; Marie Antoinette, on being told that people did not have enough bread to eat, notoriously said 'Let them eat cake'. (Pierre Trudeau's own version of the phrase wasn't printable.)
Yeees, however one should keep in mind that the new revolutionary rulers had a strong interest in villifying the French monarchy, especially Marie Antoinette! - Who may in fact not have been such a bad person after all. And there is considerable doubt about that very famous quote.
Louis XVI may have been less than stellar but it seems to me that it was primarily the rigidity of nobillity that was the main cause for the lack of reforms leading to the French Revolution.

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It seems to me that while the King of Denmark chose to stay in Denmark during German occupation in World War Two, and the King of Norway chose to go into exile, yet the monarchy in both Denmark and Norway continued to represent a very strong sense of nationhood.
Christian X simply didn't have time to flee, even if he wanted to.
In Norway the King became the living symbol, who would one day return to liberate the nation. A nations hope personified.
In Denmark the King became a living rallying point. A living proof that Denmark still existed as a nation and a symbol of defiance.
It has been revealed that the King would have put on the yellow star of David had Danish Jews been told to wear it. Had that happened it is certain that the vast majority of Danes would have worn the star the very next day. Such was his influence.

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Whenever I have seen the offices of Danish, Norwegian or Swedish consulates in various cities, the crown symbols are always very prominent on the plaques fixed near the entrances.
Old nations, where the monarchy has always been around. No Parliament as a buffer like in Britain, as a result of a civil war. No revolution as in France. No redundency as in the German nations. So the crowns are a part of our existing culture and history and they are not percieved as something negative or irrelevant. Absolutism here was quietly replaced by parliaments. Here in DK it was the first Constitution that led to a civil war, not the monarchy or that absolutism was abolished.

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In Belgium, in WW2 Leopold III first chose to stay in Brussels after surrendering; then he was deported by the Nazis; then after the war he decided he preferred to go and live in Switzerland rather than go back to live in Belgium; the Belgian government in exile had been upset that Leopold under Nazi rule married someone in a religious ceremony before doing in a civil ceremony; the government thought he ought to have had a civil marriage first and then a religious one; in turn, Leopold was upset that the government was upset with him. In fact, Belgium did not have strong republican sentiment. although it does exist; Belgians preferred firstly Leopold's brother Charles as Regent and subsequently his son Baudouin as King. The monarchy continues to be a uniting factor in the linguistically diverse country. (I lived in Belgium.)
I must confess I know too little about the Belgian monarchy, so I'll pass on that one.

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Regarding Australian, New Zealander and Canadian commemoration of war dead, as Commonwealth countries they all contributed substantially to the war effort in both the First and Second World War. As Commonwealth countries, the history of service in uniform, at great personal cost in some cases, is all part of their past. Interestingly, members of the Royal family still preside over military regiments in Canada. It's sometimes hard to separate the various overlapping strands of the past.

Several of the Canadian provincial flags have the Union Jack on them.

I suppose in Australia one could even argue in the other direction: British Prime Minister Harold Wilson kept Britain out of Vietnam; while Australian Prime Minister Harold Holt was persuaded by Lyndon Johnson to send troops to Vietnam. I'm not sure that Harold Holt can be portrayed as a brave symbol of someone who successfully cut Imperial ties... or something like that. In the end, it's a matter for the Australians.

Isn't there a city Down Under called Dannevirke? Maybe it was founded by Danes.
True, but that was an Australian choice. For better or worse participation in the Vietnam War was a part of Australian independence, politically at least.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:00 PM
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I'm sure that the Danish Crown in a very real sense is a symbol of the nation.

Then, I reckon in a different sense, the Folketing must also be a symbol of the nation.

It's interesting that the British House of Lords in its origins goes back at least to the Barons of Runnymede and Magna Carta, 1215. This is regarded as an early, strong assertion of the rule of law.

Incidentally, you live in Jutland: was Jylland ever a duchy in its own right? or even the name of a dukedom, as a title?
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