The Danish Monarchy: Is it worth it? Nationalism or a National Waste?

[Villemann]

Originally Posted by Villemann

Last month, CP Frederik was away on "official business" off the coast of Miami for 10 days racing his Farr40 boat! Mary and the children flew in a few days later, which meant that neither Frederik nor his wife and children were present on the balcony at Amalienborg palace , when Queen Margrethe celebrated her 68th birthday!

Let me correct myself here. CP Frederik was away on "official business" on the waters off Miami for 8 days in April. Just checked his calendar!

[LadyCat]

Originally Posted by Villemann

Okay, I think CP Frederik should "pull his fingers out." What kind of information do I base that opinion on? His own website. In 2007, CP Frederik's own royal website states, he had approximately 70 - seventy - official engagements, give and take a few depending on how you count. In the same year, 2007, the Duke of Edinburg, who is pushing 90 years, had 380 -three hundrede and eighty.

It is grossly unfair to compare Fred's calendar to that of the Duke of Edinburgh. It would also be unfair to compare the engagements of Fred's GB counterpart, the Prince of Wales. The population difference alone between GB and Denmark is enough to show how unfair such a comparison is. Is there a Crown Prince(ss) in another monarchy with a similar population to Denmark to compare his engagements to?

And I am sure there are unofficial engagements that are not shown on the website. Private meetings, etc.

Cat

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by LadyCat

It is grossly unfair to compare Fred's calendar to that of the Duke of Edinburgh.

The Duke of Edinburgh is unique and would withstand any comparison, even among his peers, male or female (in Denmark's case Prince Henrik) One could as well compare CP Mary's enagements with those of Queen Elizabeth II - pointless.

Overall I see all monarchies in danger and I doubt many of them will survive the next 100 or 200 years. It's not a danish problem. For me royals will lose their purpose because the new generation has already turned into commoners who don't stand out from the public any longer. Fred preferres to sail, Charles - I don't have to mention, WA, Felipe & Haakon chosing wives with a questionable past / family history etc. Some countries might survive longer because of a strong history (Britain) or because they are cool about their royals (Dutch and maybe the Danes) but all others, sooner or later they will be gone. Many heirs or spouses simply don't bring along the needed attitude to guide a monarchy into the future and how could they? Many of the heirs have been brought up as normal as possible themselves, got married to commoners. Change of generations and society will be so brute that there won't be a future for monarchies any longer, that's at least my prediciton.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by Marengo

As I said before, the British have a different way of counting their engagements than the other royals. They always come up with an enormous amount of engagements as they list each and every part of a visit as a seperate engagement.

For example the Danes would list : CP Frederik visited Aarhus this morning to visit a hospital (as 1 event)
In the UK: The Duke of Edinburgh went in the car to Glasgow (1), he was greeted by the mayor (2) after which he spoke to the staff of the hospital (3). He visited some patients (4) and after that he enjoyed lunch in the restaurant of the hospital (5).

I am not saying that the DoE doesn't have a busy life for a man his age, but as the British royals count things like that you can not compare it to the more modest way of counting done by most continental families.

I must say that's news to me. Are you saying that when the Duke (or other royal) goes on a visit, every single facet of a visit to a particular place is counted as a separate visit? Certainly if he spends half a day visiting Glasgow and opens a school, visits a factory, attends a reception for DoE Award winners, and has lunch with the Mayor, it'd count as four events rather than one even though they were part of the visit to one city. But to say that meeting staff and visiting patients and having lunch in the same hospital counts as three engagements? And that simply turning up counts as another one? Since when?

[Marengo]

Perhaps I have overdid it in my example, but AKAIK the British indeed partition their engagement which leads to such a high number. That they do their own counting and provide the information to the media also helps. The Dutch royals (and the Danish too AFAIK) just publish whatever they want n the website (note that they do not publish everything, here at TRF we have a more detailed agenda than the websites of the RF's provide) and let the press do the counting. Consequently they count a state visit as one event (or 3 at best, 1 for each day) while if they would have been more precise they would count the 10 different parts of the programme as they do in Britain.
And just from my own observation, I know the DoE has a lot to do for a man of his age and he and his wife are still exceptionally busy, but there is no way in the world that he has more engagements in a year than for example the prince of Asturias, which is the case if we look at just the numbers.

[melmel]

While it is always nice to see pictures of the royals and hear about their lives, if I was Danish, I am not sure that I would want my tax dollars to support such an institution. While tax dollars probably goes to the upkeep of the homes and staff, seeing Mary dressed in Gucci, Prada etc would make me a little upset.

[Binz]

Originally Posted by Villemann

I entirely agree with you. It is the lack of purpose, that gets me too. Mary and Frede are cute and photogenic, but what was the purpose of the visit? Too see Mary in as many woolen hats as possible? To promote Danish technology or design in Iceland? The lack of purpose is the overall problem with the Danish royals today, especially with CP Frederik.He is an delightful fella, but completely lost! I believe , unless the Danish royals - and royals all over Europe for that matter - come up with something else, their days are numbered. They need to reform to stay alive and visits like the one to Iceland ,where it appears to be all about the next photo-op, does not help a monarchy survive. It merely turns the royals into celebrities like Paris Hilton or whatever they are called.

As other have mentioned allready, the purpose of this vist was the same as the purpose of all the visit of the other royals who have visited Island.

Maybe the lack of the purpose of the danish media towards the royals is the problem? Maybe even more than the guilt of the royals?

I've missed the attention Frederik should get when ever he is doing something serious, except his wife is with him. Whos responsability is this?

For example where is the endless stream of pictures regarding CP Marys visit in Geneva? Is this not serious enough compared with the visit of the couple in Island?

Marys programm yesterday, where are the pictures and the reports?

Welcome by the High Commissioner for Refugees, Mr António Guterres, UNHCR staff and children of Danish staff.

Meeting with the High Commissioner.

Working lunch hosted by the High Commissioner (at UNHCR Headquarters).

Informal briefings/discussions with Department of International Protection Services, Division of Operational Services (emergency room demonstration), and Regional Bureau for Africa.

Farewell meeting with the High Commissioner in foyer of UNHCR.

Departure from UNHCR Headquarters.

Evening Dinner hosted by Ambassador Marie-Louise Overvad.


Todays programm, again where are the pictures and the reports?


Visit to the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Museum.

Guided tour of the Museum.

Departure from the Red Cross and Red Crescent Museum. Drive to the World Health Organization (WHO).

Welcome by the Director-General, Dr Margaret Chan, and the Director of the Regional Office for Europe, Dr. Marc Danzon.

Working lunch hosted by the Director-General (at WHO Headquarters).

Presentation of Danish nationals working at WHO Headquarters.
Photo opportunity.

Visit to the Strategic Health Operations Centre (SHOC).

Briefing on child health and immunization.

Briefing on Chronic Diseases and Health Promotion, Nutrition for Health and Development and Mental Health.

Departure from WHO. Drive to the United Nations Headquarters in Geneva, Palais des Nations.

Welcome by the Director-General of the United Nations Office at Geneva, Mr Sergei Ordzhonikidze. Door 4.

Meeting with the Director-General.

Guided tour of the United Nations Office at Geneva, Palais des Nations.

Departure from the United Nations Office at Geneva.

Btw. how many events would the BRF count for this visit?
And btw. today is the fourth wedding anniversary of the danish CP couple.

This debate reminds me, there was an article in Berlingske Tidende from Emilia Van Hauen
"Fra Guds nåde til folkets nåde" from the 26. marts 2006
And the last part of the article was this:

"They are also important icons/role models for a modern identity, into which we can reflect ourselves and more, if especially Frederik and Mary not only act by appearing at different events, but also do express opinions/positions about modern life. Right now our RF has what is needed. Will they continue to have that? Possibly. Perhaps the issue in the future won't be whether we want a RF. With the perspective to not having any private life, to live up to inhuman demands about perfection and a attraktive personality and demonstarte the ability to balance at a knives edge between interestiong opinions and relevant acts, the question is rather: Do the DRF wants us?
"
Emilia van Hauen is a sociologist specialized in humans modern lifestyles, identity and chalenges HD(A), Author, lecturer, journalist, feature writer and often used as commentator/expert on Royal events.

INDALO.DK

So obviously different people in Denmark have different opinions.

[Empress]

Originally Posted by melmel

While it is always nice to see pictures of the royals and hear about their lives, if I was Danish, I am not sure that I would want my tax dollars to support such an institution. While tax dollars probably goes to the upkeep of the homes and staff, seeing Mary dressed in Gucci, Prada etc would make me a little upset.

Well, if memory serves me correctly, the Danish Royal family have considerable assets of their own, so I would imagine that even if they weren't currently monarchs, and royalty, and weren't receiving money from the state, I would be willing to bet that she could still afford to dress this way.

That being said, it would also do everyone well to remember that she is paid a "salary" for her "work" just as everyone else is, and what she chooses to spend that salary on is her business, and not ours.

Furthermore, it's likely that alot of her clothes are given to her, as a designer would very likely be thrilled with the free publicity that her wearing their clothes would generate.

[wiwaxia]

I think it's patently obvious that the BRF don't calculate every step of an engagement as a seperate entity, as their homepage proves, from today for example:

Royal diary search results=

The official input from the Danish royals is questionable, it is limited, very limited, contra the cost to the Danish tax payer; there are many expenses over and above the apanage they receive annually, that are regulated by various ministries, and are therefore not visible on the annual accounts on their website, a hidden agenda you might say!

[Amelia]

The official input from the Danish royals is questionable, it is limited, very limited, contra the cost to the Danish tax payer

Could I possibly get a link to the figures that you are using to come to this conclusion. It would be interesting to see what the Danish Royals bring to the country Vs what they cost. Thank you

there are many expenses over and above the apanage they receive annually, that are regulated by various ministries, and are therefore not visible on the annual accounts on their website, a hidden agenda you might say!

Also links to the source for the information on the other incomes, I persume that they receive money from The Foreign Office for offical state visits to other countries but what are the others. Thank you

[wiwaxia]

Originally Posted by Amelia

Could I possibly get a link to the figures that you are using to come to this conclusion. It would be interesting to see what the Danish Royals bring to the country Vs what they cost. Thank you


Also links to the source for the information on the other incomes, I persume that they receive money from The Foreign Office for offical state visits to other countries but what are the others. Thank you

The list of public engagements for the DRF can be found on their website, and the amount of public money received for these duties can be calculated accordingly, that is if you are interested! IMVHO, the input is minimal compared to the expenditure!

http://download.tdconline.dk/pub/kongehuset/aarsrapport/Kongehuset_2007.pdf
The Annual Report from the DRF
http://www.ses.dk/
Palaces and Properties Agency
http://forsvaret.dk/sok/
The Danish Navy
http://forsvaret.dk/ftk
The Danish Airforce

’’Also links to the source for the information on the other incomes’’ - I didn’t mention that they had other incomes, you did, however, I do hope you find the links useful.

[Madame Royale]

a hidden agenda you might say!

Prove there is a "hidden agenda" on the part of the royal family or perhaps stick to what is known, and not what you think you know or would attempt to portray.

[Amelia]

I do hope you find the links useful.

Yes thank you very much but none of them tell me how much extra the cost is of the Royal Family - the other 'expense' that you are talking about, could you list those. Although I don't think the Palaces and Properties belong to the Royal Family but to Denmark itself.

that is if you are interested! IMVHO, the input is minimal compared to the expenditure!

I said I was interested when I asked for the links, I don't understand why you are being so defensive. This is a discussion forum, chances are if you post something people are going to want to discuss it. You said the oficial input was limited to the cost so I presumed, wrongly as it turned out, that you had based it on some oficial source and not you own opinion.

The list of public engagements for the DRF can be found on their website, and the amount of public money received for these duties can be calculated accordingly,

So how much do they receive for each official event - I don't speak Danish so I can't see where it says the amount the The CP Couple have left after their staff and expenses are paid so I am unable to work out how much they have left for themselves and so I can't calculate how much the are paid for each event. Also when you talk out their input are you considering at all the outcome of these duties have on the people involved and the Danish in general - for instance last year the couple and their son posed for a special postage stamp to be sold in Denmark, on April 1st they made a visit to the Danish Mental Health Foundation to present 2.286.000 kroner that was raised by the stamp. That had a big impact for the Danish Mental Health Foundation and the people they help. Or perhaps the The Brain Injury Association who said in January in an interview TV2 that before Mary became patron the association was in crisis, due to lack of funds. I think sometimes it may perhaps be easy to put a figure on the cost of a Royal, but not so easy to put one on the benefits, there are lots of things that must be counted when doing that.

[Empress]

Right, that's quite enough with the personal attacks, snide comments, and off topic conversation.

If you are unable to carry on a civil conversation, and allow others their opinions, STAY AWAY FROM THIS THREAD.

Anything considered inappropriate from here on out in this thread will be deleted without discussion or forewarning.

AND FINALLY

DO NOT ALLOW POSTERS WHO ARE ATTEMPTING TO NEEDLE YOU DO SO!

[LadyCat]

Someone has been doing her homework! Way to go, Amelia!

How much "waste" can there be in championing very worthy causes? I would think whatever the cost to keep important charities on the front burner and help them get funding would be money well spent.

Cat

[wiwaxia]

Originally Posted by Amelia

Yes thank you very much but none of them tell me how much extra the cost is of the Royal Family - the other 'expense' that you are talking about, could you list those. Although I don't think the Palaces and Properties belong to the Royal Family but to Denmark itself.

I said I was interested when I asked for the links, I don't understand why you are being so defensive. This is a discussion forum, chances are if you post something people are going to want to discuss it. You said the oficial input was limited to the cost so I presumed, wrongly as it turned out, that you had based it on some oficial source and not you own opinion.


So how much do they receive for each official event - I don't speak Danish so I can't see where it says the amount the The CP Couple have left after their staff and expenses are paid so I am unable to work out how much they have left for themselves and so I can't calculate how much the are paid for each event. Also when you talk out their input are you considering at all the outcome of these duties have on the people involved and the Danish in general - for instance last year the couple and their son posed for a special postage stamp to be sold in Denmark, on April 1st they made a visit to the Danish Mental Health Foundation to present 2.286.000 kroner that was raised by the stamp. That had a big impact for the Danish Mental Health Foundation and the people they help. Or perhaps the The Brain Injury Association who said in January in an interview TV2 that before Mary became patron the association was in crisis, due to lack of funds. I think sometimes it may perhaps be easy to put a figure on the cost of a Royal, but not so easy to put one on the benefits, there are lots of things that must be counted when doing that.

Thanks for your reply!
Availing themselves of services funded by the examples in the links, is an area which is unspecified in the Annual Report, these too are supported through the treasury, which exists due to public conscription, which therefore makes the disbursement questionable in relation to their curriculum. In conclusion all the links provided represent officialdom, and are not ’my opinion’, which incidentally I am entitled to, if that was the case.