The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #41  
Old 07-29-2008, 04:32 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
The way I see it: The Queen is a very smart lady and I am sure the divorce news was a shock to her. Alexandra and Joaquim for whatever reasons they decided to divorce. This was a private affaire and we are neither entitled nor expect to know the reasons why they decided to end their marriage. However, Alexandra represented the Royal Family and she was a great asset to the DRF while she was still a member. When the decision was made to go on with the divorce and finalize the financial arrangements, the DRF should have somehow come up with the funds to finance Alexandra's life. (She "worked" for them not the government)
There were provisions in the prenup for Alexandra and Mary ( I am sure for Marie as well) with regards to the royal jewelry and the royal children. It was made abundantly clear that these belonged to the Crown and the ladies could not remove them from Danemark. Why weren't financial issues resolved within the family??
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-29-2008, 04:40 PM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
Well, I suspect that the most of the jewels might not belong to the royal family, but to a trust, of which the royal family is the conservator on behalf of the state. But I could be wrong.

The children on the other hand are "children of the state" so to speak, so that is probably something that the government isisted upon.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-29-2008, 04:45 PM
kimebear's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Albany, United States
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Let me just put a few things straigth, if I may: The children's upkeep was NOT mentioned in the bill that was passed in the Danish parliament. In the remarks to parliament before the bill was introduced, it merely stated that the annuity was "in order for Princess Alexandra to maintan a lifestyle suitable for a member of the royal family."..snipped
Okay then, what money is used when Felix needs a new pair of pants or Nikolai wants an ice cream cone? Does Alexandra have to call Joachim or the Queen and say "The boys need notebooks, send a check please" or "The boys used 50 kroner worth of heat last month". Of course not. It's just not realistic to say that this money was given to Alexandra alone without any thought as to whether or not some of it would be used for the children. If a bill was introduced into parliament to approve the stipend, and there is theoretically so much dissent, why was it not voted down?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-29-2008, 04:48 PM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
Well, then the question comes down to who do the boys live with most often?

On another note, most parents have to split the cost of raising their children out of their own pockets, and since Alexandra now has a job, I assume that she has income of her own. They are her children and in essence, she is not having to pay for any of their upkeep. The state is doing that, rather than Joachim paying out child support, so I can see both sides of the argument here. I have to say that I think that she got a pretty amazing deal, what with her yearly allowance, and having her housing provided for her.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Well, I suspect that the most of the jewels might not belong to the royal family, but to a trust, of which the royal family is the conservator on behalf of the state. But I could be wrong.

The children on the other hand are "children of the state" so to speak, so that is probably something that the government isisted upon.
Empress I am not sure who owns the Royal Jewels. The Danish Monarchy is the oldest one and I believe that they acquired along the way a lot of jewelry that are their own. Besides there have been pieces handed from Q Ingrid to the GRF or P Benedikte. I remember reading about the issue with the jewelry and the children and they mentioned the children belong to the Crown. I am not remotely familiar with how things work in Danemark and if the Crown and the Government are one and the same. If they are, then Alexandra worked for the government and earned her "pension" so to speak when her career as a princess came to an end.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:02 PM
Al_bina's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 5,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Let me just put a few things straigth, if I may: The children's upkeep was NOT mentioned in the bill that was passed in the Danish parliament. In the remarks to parliament before the bill was introduced, it merely stated that the annuity was "in order for Princess Alexandra to maintan a lifestyle suitable for a member of the royal family." Secondly, Alexandra could not have turned down her civil list annuity, because she very much needed the money. She has no funds of her own and her family can not help out, because they are not wealthy either!
Naturally, the Queen was informed of all of this and it was with her permission the palace went ahead with the request to parliament for at annuity to Alexandra. In my personal opinion, Queen Margrethe scored an own goal here. She is , as someone said, a smart woman, but the decision to burden the Danish people with Joachim's alimony will come back to haunt the royals!
{Edited to remove personal comment- Empress} Who is guilty that Prince Joachim was unable to provide alimony that would "maintain a lifestyle suitable for a member of the royal family" without dragging taxpayer money? Given the fact that you are said to be the royal watcher (I hope I am correct in my assumptions),I am also interested to know how the alimony arrangement would "come back to haunt the royals".
__________________
"I never did mind about the little things"
Amanda, "Point of No Return"
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:04 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
Okay then, what money is used when Felix needs a new pair of pants or Nikolai wants an ice cream cone? Does Alexandra have to call Joachim or the Queen and say "The boys need notebooks, send a check please" or "The boys used 50 kroner worth of heat last month". Of course not. It's just not realistic to say that this money was given to Alexandra alone without any thought as to whether or not some of it would be used for the children. If a bill was introduced into parliament to approve the stipend, and there is theoretically so much dissent, why was it not voted down?
My humble opinion is that they are way above that. There may be charge cards used for certain items where the bill goes to Joaquim or his accountant to settle, which takes care of the boys' expenses.
I remember a divorce of a well known NY billionaire whose soon to be ex was looking for $20,000 a month for her daughter for food and neccessities and his argument was that when the girl visited, he knew she was only eating $8 worth of food every day..............ROTFL.
Hopefully they don't have to discuss these matters.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:06 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 2,044
She is entitled to whatever money the divorce agreement gives her. If she is entitled to reimbursements for childrens expenses then she should get it. Joachim and Alexandra (and the Queen most likely) agreed on the terms and for anyone outside of that group to attempt to judge the appropriatness is perhaps useless. I don't think the "state" is paying more by the arrangement. Most likely when the current amounts for the royal house including Joachim is agreed on the money going to Alexandra is included in total allowances. That would be the usual way to compute an expense - irregardless to whom the money is paid.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:07 PM
auntie's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Middlesex, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,503
Alexandra apparantly got to keep her diamond drop tiara she received from the Queen, with apparantly other jewels she received from Joachim or bought with her own money during her marriage. The Queens jewels are partly privaely owned, and partly belonging to the state, some which can't leave Denmark. Cp Mary's Ruby Parure belongs to Fredrick, inherited from QIngrid, and can use it for life, or as long as she is married to Freddo, (hopefully forever). It was actually uncanny seing Alex wearing a necklace and earrings, presumable bought by joachim, for her wedding to Martin...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:11 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Does anyone know how much P Joaquim was receiving when he was married to Alexandra and if any adjustements were made after the divorce? If his allowance was reduced by the amount Alexandra is receiving, grevinnan is right and this is a moot point. If however his allowance remained the same and then increased when he married Marie and Alexandra is still receiving the "alimony" from public funds........I think some have every right to complain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by auntie View Post
Alexandra apparantly got to keep her diamond drop tiara she received from the Queen, with apparantly other jewels she received from Joachim or bought with her own money during her marriage. The Queens jewels are partly privaely owned, and partly belonging to the state, some which can't leave Denmark. Cp Mary's Ruby Parure belongs to Fredrick, inherited from QIngrid, and can use it for life, or as long as she is married to Freddo, (hopefully forever). It was actually uncanny seing Alex wearing a necklace and earrings, presumable bought by joachim, for her wedding to Martin...
I did not even notice this since I am not too much into jewelry, but one thing that really struck me as bad taste (sorry Alexandra fans) is that an otherwise astute, mature lady who rarely made any fashion faux pas, showed up for her marriage with Martin in a long wedding gown and a veil. In my view a cocktail dress in ivory or off white would have been in far better taste.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Viv's Avatar
Viv Viv is offline
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Funen, Denmark
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Let me just put a few things straigth, if I may: The children's upkeep was NOT mentioned in the bill that was passed in the Danish parliament.
Sorry Ricarda and Villemann, you're right! I got something mixed up in the
process; the proposal for the bill is here in Danish. It says that in establishing the amount of the annuity, it had been taken
into account that Prince Joachim and Princess Alexandra have agreed on maintenance pay.

Den 22. september 2004 meddelte ministeren for familie- og forbrugeranliggender separationsbevilling til prins Joachim og prinsesse Alexandra.
For at sikre det økonomiske grundlag for, at der kan skabes værdige rammer for prinsesse Alexandras fremtidige virke som medlem af Kongehuset foreslås i henhold til grundlovens § 11 og med virkning fra 1. oktober 2004 fastsat en særlig årpenge til prinsesse Alexandra. Årpengebeløbet er efter drøftelser med Hoffet fastsat på et niveau, som muliggør en opretholdelse af prinsessens repræsentative aktiviteter og en i øvrigt standsmæssig livsførelse. Der er ved fastsættelsen af beløbet bl.a. taget højde for, at det mellem prins Joachim og prinsesse Alexandra er aftalt, at der ydes børnebidrag, og at prinsessen får overdraget en ubehæftet, standsmæssig bolig.
Henset til det forhold, at prins Joachims årpengebeløb oprindeligt blev fastsat med henblik på at dække udgifter til øgede repræsentative opgaver som følge af ægteskabet med prinsesse Alexandra, foreslås også, at der samtidig med fastsættelsen af en særlig årpenge til prinsesse Alexandra sker en tilpasning af prins Joachims årpengebeløb.
Idet jeg henviser til de bemærkninger, der ledsager forslaget, skal jeg tillade mig at anbefale det til Folketingets velvillige behandling.

Viv

P.S. as of March 3rd 2007, when Alexandra married Martin Jørgensen,
the said amount is no longer a royal " annuity" (not subject to tax and vat) but a "special grant".
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:50 PM
Viv's Avatar
Viv Viv is offline
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Funen, Denmark
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
....one thing that really struck me as bad taste (sorry Alexandra fans) is that an otherwise astute, mature lady who rarely made any fashion faux pas, showed up for her marriage with Martin in a long wedding gown and a veil. In my view a cocktail dress in ivory or off white would have been in far better taste.
Mutton dressed as lamb springs to mind!

Generally speaking, the Danish media were kind to Alexandra as a bride
version 2.0! It looked like a self imposed censorship ...

Viv

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
Does anyone know how much P Joaquim was receiving when he was married to Alexandra and if any adjustements were made after the divorce?
With (retroactive) effect from October 1st 2004 the annuity of Prince Joachim was reduced from 2.258 000 to 1.612 000 kroner.

Viv
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 07-29-2008, 06:11 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Thanks Viv. there are 646,000 kroner difference. Is this how much was given to Alexandra? Has P Joachim had his allowance increased or has P Marie received an allowance since their wedding?? ( We are getting somewhere......)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 07-29-2008, 06:31 PM
Emeralds and Opals's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: *****, United States
Posts: 582
Royal Grant after Prins Nikolai and Prins Felix reach age 18

Hiya Everyone,

Will Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg grant amount be less after Prins Nikolai and Prins Felix reach 18?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 07-29-2008, 06:38 PM
Viv's Avatar
Viv Viv is offline
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Funen, Denmark
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
Thanks Viv. there are 646,000 kroner difference. Is this how much was given to Alexandra? Has P Joachim had his allowance increased or has P Marie received an allowance since their wedding?? ( We are getting somewhere......)
Alexandra was granted an annuity of 1.526.000 kroner in "2004-money".
Her state grant amounts to 1.9 million kroner today.

As for Prince Joachim:
Wef. 01.jun.2008 the annuity of Prince Joachim was increased
to 2.258 000 ( the level before his divorce). With index regulations
the annuity amounts to 2.531.000, none of which seem to be
earmarked specifically for Princess Marie.

Viv
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 07-29-2008, 06:46 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
With all due respect to the DFR I would be upset if that divorce cost me part of the 880,000 krone (2004 money) for Alexandra and now 600,000 krone more to take care of the new household P J set up with Marie.
Hopefully they will all live happily ever after, so we will not have to discuss this again.
BTW is Alexandra receiving a cost of living increase every year? What is the average income of a well paid executive in Danemark?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-29-2008, 06:52 PM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
I wonder why Alexandra gets almost as much as Marie and Joachim combined. That hardly seems fair.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07-29-2008, 06:55 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
She actually may be getting alimony and child support...so the total is for her and 2 princes in line to the throne. That would make more sense wouldn't it?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 07-30-2008, 04:12 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
Okay then, what money is used when Felix needs a new pair of pants or Nikolai wants an ice cream cone? Does Alexandra have to call Joachim or the Queen and say "The boys need notebooks, send a check please" or "The boys used 50 kroner worth of heat last month". Of course not. It's just not realistic to say that this money was given to Alexandra alone without any thought as to whether or not some of it would be used for the children. If a bill was introduced into parliament to approve the stipend, and there is theoretically so much dissent, why was it not voted down?
It is my understanding that prince Joachim pays child support out of fhis private (but publicly funded) pocket. The bill was not voted down because what the palace wants, the palace gets. Unfortunately our elected representatives were having a major snooze and just voted without thinking through the ramifications of this particular bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
She actually may be getting alimony and child support...so the total is for her and 2 princes in line to the throne. That would make more sense wouldn't it?
Why could the money not have been allocated directly to the boys with someone independent overseeing that the allowance was used for the two numbers in the succession and not the upkeep of their mum's luxurious existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Come on - I bet a lot of people are quite happy that this money benefits a lady they like rather than a politician they don't like. It's not as if she received half of the houseld of the State!
It is not the money. The sum is insignificant. It is the principle. Alexandra's annuity or "special allowance," as it is now called, was a unwise move by the Queen. In time, I believe, this decision will fall back on the royal house as a sledgehammer, because people will not tolerate it.
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 07-30-2008, 06:47 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: somewhere, Netherlands
Posts: 378
And what a sledgehammer that wil be 400.000 euro's divided over 5.5 million Danish people. It's hardly worth mentioning.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg's Charities and Patronages norwegianne Royal House of Denmark 203 11-22-2014 02:11 PM
Countess Stéphanie's Wedding Dresses (Civil and Church) Princess Robijn Major Royal Events 185 08-10-2013 07:25 PM
The Earl and Countess of Wessex to Visit Bulgaria: March 2013 Artemisia The Earl and Countess of Wessex and Family 32 06-25-2013 10:27 AM




Popular Tags
belgium carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy germany grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jewellery jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman poland president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince daniel prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:21 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]