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  #121  
Old 09-12-2015, 11:21 PM
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Generally, woman are more into the whole wedding thing than the men; the women plan it out and the men are just told when to show up and where to pick up their tux. Not always, must most of the time in my experience.
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  #122  
Old 09-13-2015, 02:29 AM
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I thought it was extremely bad taste to wear Joachim's necklace at the wedding
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  #123  
Old 09-13-2015, 02:49 AM
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I may be oldfashioned, but it is certainly my impression that while most men appreciate a romantic wedding, the really big wedding-show is beyond our capabilities so to speak.
If I were Martin Jørgensen about to marry Alexandra back then and I wanted the big thing I would hire a wedding planner.
Especially as I would without a seconds hesitation label Martin as a "drengerøv". - Not sure how to translate that. It's a guy who prefer to hang out with his mates, talking about cars, chicks and gadgets, drink, party, tell rude jokes and who find family-stuff and children-stuff boring, who is pretty immature and shallow. But who is also fun to be around because something is always happening.
All men are a "drengerøv" to some extent and certainly go through such phases in our lives and eventually outgrow it.
But for a true "drengerøv" as I consider Martin, it's permanent state of mind.
- That's why I don't believe Martin was behind the elaborate wedding. A "drengerøv" wouldn't want to find the right flower arrangement, come on! Finding the right limousine, yes but selecting outfits for the pages and bride-girls? Ha!

It also fits with why he had a great rapport with Nikolai and Felix. He could do guy-things with them. But comprehending that boys growing up also sometimes need a good talk with dad, that's beyond a "drengerøv".
It could also explain why he never showed any interest in his daughter Partly because he genuinely don't feel any connection whatsoever to her and partly because he is unable to comprehend that she might be interested in connecting with him. That's simply beyond him. What's he supposed to do with her anyway? Take her to soccer? Talk with her about feelings'n'stuff? Boring. A "drengerøv" is not interested in girls until they are sexually mature.

Martin is fun and entertaining to be around, but only occasionally into the deeper things that are also a part of a relationship.

I know, I know, it's a poor characteristic of a man I really don't know, but I know the type.

And in case you wonder, directly translated: "drengerøv = boy's-arse".

Should we fear a book, where Martin Jørgensen spills the beans about the DRF? - No, I don't think so. The laws of privacy in DK are very strict. Writing what is essentially a biography about your ex-wife? You'd better be very careful about the wording! Or all the money you earn on the book will go to layers fending off a lawsuit for slander.
And involving your ex-wife's ex-husband's family, especially where children are involved? We are now entering the area covered by the penal code! Not to mention that it would make him the most loathed person in Scandinavia. And good luck about finding a Danish publisher willing to print that auto-biography!

If the divorce turns ugly I think Martin Jørgensen might be tempted to give interviews to explain his version of events, but that would backfire IMO. He simply isn't experienced nor skilled in communication for that to work.

Now, there are rumors about Martin being father of Felix. I cannot emphasize strongly enough that I for various reasons do not believe that to be true.
However, for the sake of argument let's for a moment pretend it is and Martin comes out saying so. It would destroy Alexandra, that's for sure! But it would be a Pyrrhic victory for Martin because it will also devastate Felix and the public would never forgive Martin for that! The only weapon Martin has against Alexandra, and that is a weapon that may cost her a good deal of money, is if Martin claims he had an intimate relationship with Alexandra before her divorce from Joachim. Regardless of whether it is true or not.

We shall see. Right now a number of editors are praying to whatever demons they worship that this divorce turns ugly.
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  #124  
Old 09-13-2015, 03:00 AM
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Thanks Muhler, I think a possible translation would be Men's man but to be honest, I've always seen Martin with a gay touch or at least as a Metrosexual.

Regarding the rumor with Felix, I always found it ridiculous as he looks so much like Joachim!
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  #125  
Old 09-13-2015, 03:22 AM
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And Joachim particularly asked the press to respect children. Very good respect. I wonder what else say. Just ridiculous
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  #126  
Old 09-13-2015, 06:17 AM
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The children should come first. Adults have choices, do children in this situation have choices? I found that photograph very sad. It cannot be an easy situation for those children.
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  #127  
Old 09-13-2015, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Out of curiosity, why do you think the elaborate wedding was Martin's idea?

To be honest I thought the whole thing smelled a bit like "Hey, I'm still a around".
So Joachim's second marriage was also just a "Hey, I'm still around" kind of thing?

If Alexandra was the "look at me for I'm still relevant" kind of person, she would undoubtedly have continued working full-time as a royal. Need I remind you that Alexandra was once one of the hardest working members of the family? A position she couldn't continue in out of respect for your Marie.

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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
It's interesting that people assume that it was Alexandra wanted the 'overdone' wedding.....just because it was her 2nd wedding...it was still Martin's 1st.

The same thing happened with one of my best friends who was planning a wedding to a man who had already had the 'overdone' wedding. He said, 'I've already had the big wedding.' Guess what, I replied...'She hasn't'

IMO any decision on what type of wedding you have should be a mutual decision between the bride and groom. I know at some point someone has to give but just because one has lived the dream doesn't mean the other person should have their wedding day what they envision it to be as as well.

I mean why shouldn't Marie have had her day just because Joachim has already had already done the deed.
I couldn't agree more. And why should Alexandra be robbed of a big day just because it's her second marriage? A very strange thought indeed.

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It's interesting, that there seems to be an automatic "Poor Alexandra" reaction for many. Is it because she's a woman? What if she is a pain to live with and the drinking and partying is a reaction to that? For both Martin and Joachim...
This is a discussion forum about royals and Alexandra is the "royal" part of the couple – hence, I believe, the sympathy leaning more towards her. (And because she, IMO, was treated very poorly towards the end of her first marriage so I'm personally sad that she has to go through another divorce.)
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  #128  
Old 09-13-2015, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
So Joachim's second marriage was also just a "Hey, I'm still around" kind of thing?

If Alexandra was the "look at me for I'm still relevant" kind of person, she would undoubtedly have continued working full-time as a royal. Need I remind you that Alexandra was once one of the hardest working members of the family? A position she couldn't continue in out of respect for your Marie.
There is a considerable difference between being a Prince and a senior working member of the DRF and being a Countess and an ex-member of the DRF.
And in royal context the marriage between J&M was fairly low key.

In contrast Alexandra's second marriage was pretty elaborate. It was even to a large extent televised! For a commoner, which Alexandra became upon the marriage, this was by no means a normal wedding. So yes, it left me with the impression that it was an attempt by Alexandra, who has always been media savvy, to remind the public and the press that she is still around. And considering the coverage she succeeded.

I don't think I need remind you of the yearly summer shoots where Joachim and Alexandra competed with each other about who could get the most idyllic pictures in the magazines. They were also "hey, I'm still here" shoots by Alexandra.
Because they divorced. Alexandra opted for or accepted a divorce, she was no longer a primary royal and upon her second marriage not even a royal anymore. That's the price she paid. Joachim in contrast could not opt out as a member of the DRF.

Nor need I remind you that even though no one to this day really know why Joachim and Alexandra divorced, Joachim nevertheless got practically all the bad press and all the public blame. Certainly in the first few years after the divorce.

That people ask themselves that Alexandra may be at least in part responsible for the breakdown of her second marriage and perhaps her first as well or that people (including myself) believe she thrived with being in the spotlight, does not detract from the very professional work she actually did when she was a member of the DRF.
I know you admire Alexandra very much, but she is only human.
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  #129  
Old 09-16-2015, 10:51 AM
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Ekstra Bladet writes that Nikolai has updated his Facebook page: Prins Nikolai dropper Jørgensen – Ekstra Bladet

He used to call himself Nikolai Jørgensen, but has now changed his name to Nikolai Frederiksborg. (Alexandra is Countess of Frederiksborg, but the title cannot be inherited though).

- And EB writes that Nikolai's Facebook profile is no longer public.
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  #130  
Old 09-16-2015, 11:01 AM
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I find it confusing that a son of Prince Joachim ever signed himself with the surname of another man in the first place.

That had to be a little awkward for Nikolai's father, imo.
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  #131  
Old 09-16-2015, 11:22 AM
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I assumed he used Martin's name so as not to be found by press.
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  #132  
Old 09-16-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Ekstra Bladet writes that Nikolai has updated his Facebook page: Prins Nikolai dropper Jørgensen – Ekstra Bladet

He used to call himself Nikolai Jørgensen, but has now changed his name to Nikolai Frederiksborg. (Alexandra is Countess of Frederiksborg, but the title cannot be inherited though).

- And EB writes that Nikolai's Facebook profile is no longer public.
Hmmm. Its going to be tough for the new age of royals dealing with a very popular social media source.
Like any teenager he wants to be on facebook and such, but hopefully he learns about privacy settings
and maybe make his profile picture less obvious
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  #133  
Old 09-16-2015, 02:06 PM
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Esafety is very important, divorce is never easy for children.
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  #134  
Old 09-16-2015, 06:01 PM
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I've seen Nikolai's use of Jørgensen as a sign of endearment, a nifty solution to the lack of surname problem, and before it was found out, probably mainly for privacy. Nikolai and Jørgensen are both very common Danish names and I presume he hoped he'd fall under the radar by using it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
There is a considerable difference between being a Prince and a senior working member of the DRF and being a Countess and an ex-member of the DRF.
And in royal context the marriage between J&M was fairly low key.

In contrast Alexandra's second marriage was pretty elaborate. It was even to a large extent televised! For a commoner, which Alexandra became upon the marriage, this was by no means a normal wedding. So yes, it left me with the impression that it was an attempt by Alexandra, who has always been media savvy, to remind the public and the press that she is still around. And considering the coverage she succeeded.

I don't think I need remind you of the yearly summer shoots where Joachim and Alexandra competed with each other about who could get the most idyllic pictures in the magazines. They were also "hey, I'm still here" shoots by Alexandra.
Because they divorced. Alexandra opted for or accepted a divorce, she was no longer a primary royal and upon her second marriage not even a royal anymore. That's the price she paid. Joachim in contrast could not opt out as a member of the DRF.

Nor need I remind you that even though no one to this day really know why Joachim and Alexandra divorced, Joachim nevertheless got practically all the bad press and all the public blame. Certainly in the first few years after the divorce.

That people ask themselves that Alexandra may be at least in part responsible for the breakdown of her second marriage and perhaps her first as well or that people (including myself) believe she thrived with being in the spotlight, does not detract from the very professional work she actually did when she was a member of the DRF.
I know you admire Alexandra very much, but she is only human.
But Alexandra had been a beloved member of the royal family for several years and mother of two Danish princes (she didn't just magically disappear when she divorced Joachim). And largely televised? IIRC, we saw arrivals and that's it – probably at the request of various media outlets who knew that it would sell well as Alexandra was still very popular at the time. Neither the ceremony nor the following party was televised.

Define "hey, I'm still here". This is a woman who has been repeatedly lambasted in the media for not doing enough, not being seen enough, not being vocal enough for the fee she receives. And now, you're implying that when she was seen on a regular basis, she was just seeking attention? Seems like she can't win either way

One could argue that there was a reason why Joachim got most of the blame in the media but this is neither the thread nor the time to do so, so I'll refrain

I'm not sure how you derived from my posts that I believe Alexandra to be without responsibility in this – if I've given such an impression, it's without intention. Of course it takes two to tango and I don't believe I've ever denied that. And hey, I get that you're not fond of Alexandra (I suppose they can't all be your Marie ). I just refuse to follow the narrative that Alexandra somehow is an egomaniac because she posed for some cameras on her wedding day. She's human indeed and, really, that's what I've been arguing all along. That there's nothing inhuman or abnormal about either Martin wanting a grand first wedding or Alexandra wanting a grand second wedding – putting it down as a need for attention is a bit too presumptuous for me.
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  #135  
Old 09-16-2015, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I find it confusing that a son of Prince Joachim ever signed himself with the surname of another man in the first place.

That had to be a little awkward for Nikolai's father, imo.
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Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
I assumed he used Martin's name so as not to be found by press.
Does Joachim even have a surname to pass on or was his title, Prince of Denmark, Count of Monpezat deemed enough?

If there is no surname and Alexandra was the primary caregiver, I could see that when she married using Martin's surname would have been convenient, but with the end of that marriage, surely he would be better calling himself Nikolai Monpezat as that is his for life rather than Frederiksborg?

The fact that he used his stepfather's name and has reverted to using is mother's title, which is hers alone makes me wonder if he isn't very impressed with his father. Just a thought.
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  #136  
Old 09-16-2015, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Does Joachim even have a surname to pass on or was his title, Prince of Denmark, Count of Monpezat deemed enough?

If there is no surname and Alexandra was the primary caregiver, I could see that when she married using Martin's surname would have been convenient, but with the end of that marriage, surely he would be better calling himself Nikolai Monpezat as that is his for life rather than Frederiksborg?

The fact that he used his stepfather's name and has reverted to using is mother's title, which is hers alone makes me wonder if he isn't very impressed with his father. Just a thought.
I don't think members of the Danish royal family have surnames. I doubt Nikolai put much thought into his choice of surname for Facebook, or that he was trying to stick it to his father in any way. Both boys seem to be close to their mother and their father, and they seem like personable, good natured kids who are credits to both parents.

Alexandra and Joachim deserve a lot of credit for minimizing the trauma of the divorce for their sons. They've kept the details of the divorce private AND they now genuinely seem to get along as friends/family, which I think makes things much easier on kids. As long as they still have that strong foundation with their actual parents I think what happens with step parents is relatively less important.
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  #137  
Old 09-16-2015, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Does Joachim even have a surname to pass on or was his title, Prince of Denmark, Count of Monpezat deemed enough?

If there is no surname and Alexandra was the primary caregiver, I could see that when she married using Martin's surname would have been convenient, but with the end of that marriage, surely he would be better calling himself Nikolai Monpezat as that is his for life rather than Frederiksborg?

The fact that he used his stepfather's name and has reverted to using is mother's title, which is hers alone makes me wonder if he isn't very impressed with his father. Just a thought.
That is strange. I wouldn't put too much into it as he's a teenager and might not even have thought of it, but Monpezat does seem like a more obvious choice than Frederiksborg. Schack (Schackenborg) could also have been a good solution to the surname problem.
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  #138  
Old 09-17-2015, 03:45 AM
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It is a very personal decision and he is a young man going through a tough situation.
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  #139  
Old 09-17-2015, 04:55 AM
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No, the DRF members don't have surnames. They do use aliases, when convenient though. IIRC Frederik was once reported using the name Frederik Hansen in Australia.

I don't think we need put too much into Nikolai using Jørgensen and now Frederiksborg on his profile (which is now private).
When it was open it was IMO a good idea, because Jørgensen is such a common name.
Schackenborg is hardly an option since Joachim no longer own the manor, so Frederiksborg is a natural choice. Something Alexandra will probably appreciate and perhaps a way of showing solidarity with his mother.

Okay, Archduchess Zelia, that was an interesting post and I've given it some thought.
You conclude that I'm not fond of Alexandra and I thought about it and your are right. I respect her a lot for her professionalism but I'm not really fond of her.
For that matter I'm not that fond of Joachim either. I have a tremendous respect for him, as a person as well as a working royal - and I happen to think he has been unfairly treated by the press and public - but I doubt he and I would ever become friends.
Our Marie on the other hand I genuinely like, for her personality.
Now, with that being made clear let's get to what you wrote.

Alexandra has always been very good in regards to PR, also when she was a member of the DRF, and she did know how to milk the press-cow. That was part of her job and no matter what you may think of Alexandra, when she was a member of the DRF she was a professional to the bone.

Then came the divorce. Alexandra was the darling of the DRF and got all the sympathy, while Joachim was proclaimed the villain. Already back then I thought that was unfair, it usually takes two to ruin a marriage.
As a man I don't blame Joachim for his behavior (which was probably exaggerated anyway) I would probably do the same thing in his place: go on the odd binge.

M&F came along and their popularity soared, eclipsing Alexandra's.
At the same time the story about her relationship with Martin Jørgensen surfaced and that was the first dent in her armor and people (unfortunately and wrongly IMO) looked at Felix and wondered...
Alexandra remarried. Each to his taste, in my eyes the wedding was over the top, practically semi-royal. And the news and TV coverage wasn't a four minutes segment on the news, that was a full scale report. And I doubt very much the press had to beg very much to be allowed to cover the wedding. As I said: Alexandra knows how to milk the press-cow.
That was the first genuine example of: "Hey, don't forget me".

Joachim remarried. As a member of the DRF his wedding was naturally covered, anything else would be very odd and the marriage was fairly low key for a member of the DRF.

You sidestepped the yearly summer shoots, I notice. Where Joachim and Alexandra with Nikolai and Felix virtually competed about presenting the most idyllic pictures. The violins in the background were playing on overdrive, not to mention the sugary quotes! (I still have a few translations somewhere in my archive). I found them immensely entertaining.
- Again, Joachim is a member of the DRF, there is a public interest in him and his family. That's part of the royal road show.
And even though there was a public interest in Alexandra as well, it was slowly waning and as a commoner she did not have to jump on the band wagon. There was a period where if Joachim brought the boys to some event, Alexandra did the same thing and vice versa. - These were examples of "hey, I'm still here". Because if someone believe Alexandra didn't think of the PR effect, then I've got a mermaid for sale.

Time passed, M&F became the undisputed super starts of the DRF, and Joachim has another set of children. While Alexandra gradually vanish from the front pages. She still got a fair and decent press though, especially when she brought Nikolai and Felix along to events but nothing compared to before.

Then came the warning cry from Alexandra's protections. Where was she? That caused a stir and started a genuine public debate as to her apanage. Low and behold all of a sudden she became very active with her protections... - It is tempting to think that her interest in some of the protections, was proportional to the press she got.

Now, her second divorce. Alexandra announced it, she chose the words for the press release and it's a wording than can keep you in suspense until the next episode!
About the same time Joachim went out and pleaded to the press to consider Nikolai and Felix, Alexandra was photographed in front of Felix school, smiling away. That one was unnecessary! Was it a coincidence that the pres happened to be there? Yeah right! Anyway, if the press wanted some photos of Alexandra "keeping up appearances", she could easily have asked the photographers to leave Felix out and pose alone. - You know the laws of privacy here in DK actually protects Felix in this case. (*)

So yes, Alexandra has her faults. That does not detract from the genuine and flawless work she did do when she was a member of the DRF.

(*) While you are allowed to photograph me in a public place if I by chance happen to be there, especially among a crowd, you are not allowed to walk up to me and photograph me without my consent. Nor are you allowed to focus on me in a crowd without my consent. Unless there are special reasons for doing so. Like me wearing a clowns outfit in a public place.
Children are certainly protected. Especially younger children. Standing in front of a school photographing one of the pupils, no matter whether that pupil is famous or not, is a big no-no! Now we are moving into the area covered by the penal code. You need a parents or at least a teacher's consent for that one.
The laws of privacy is however broken constantly by private citizens who photograph celebs and post them on say Facebook. But if sued they would most likely lose.
For the media and professional photographers the law is enforced, because as professionals they are expected to know the law and they make a living on publishing their pictures.
So in other words had Alexandra said: "Do not photograph Felix", the press would have been obliged to obey that request. Especially outside a school, because taking your child to school is a private activity.
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  #140  
Old 09-17-2015, 06:39 AM
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Did they have to wait announcing their divorce after the Crown Prince Wedding?
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