Countess Alexandra and Martin Jørgensen, Current Events Part 3: Dec 2009-Sept 2015


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I think it's a difficult question. She has pretty much gone out of the limelight she was in before (probably out of respect for Marie), but she's still very dedicated to the patronages she still holds.
I love Alexandra, she's a hard worker and she's so wonderful and nice. I don't hold a grudge to her because the marriage between her and Joachim broke. I personally don't think it was happy more than a couple of years after the wedding and Joachim hasn't been a saint either. I've heard some people being annoyed because of the grants but I don't think it's a problem either. I'd say that she's as popular she can get being the mother of the 7th and 8th in line to the throne.
 
I suppose it depends on whom you ask:)! Her popularity took a dive when it turned out that she most likely instigated the divorce by having something on the side with Martin back in 2003!
Next, her annual grant from the State (approx. 2 mill. kroner = $ 350.000 ) has been critized to a great extend by the general public and that's somehow reflected on the recipient. However the amount is 'peanuts' if you ask me. She still has 13 patronages to look after, and maybe they are supposed to justify the grant to some extend!
She had fourteen patronages at the time of the divorce. It's now reduced to thirteen.
Alexandra still has her followers, and her public appearances are still being covered by the press to a degree. However the main focus is on Princess Marie, and Alexandra is relegated to a life in the shadowlands of royalty.

Her elder son Prince Nikolai is to be confirmed in May. It will be interesting to see how RF will deal with the interaction!

Viv
Why do you think the interaction will be an issue when P Nikolai is confirmed. The entire family has been together at childrens birthdays so why would this event be different?

I thought she lost her "grant" when she re-married? Was that not the case?
 
Why do you think the interaction will be an issue when P Nikolai is confirmed. The entire family has been together at childrens birthdays so why would this event be different?

I thought she lost her "grant" when she re-married? Was that not the case?

No, the grant or apanage if you will, is actually dedicated to the boys. They are after all genuine Princes to Denmark and it was considered that they should be ensured a living standard befitting of their status.
That was openly stated by a politician some years back.
And it would also be seen as somewhat low by the Parliament if the then number tree and four in line for the throne were to suffer for the divorce.

What will happen once Felix turn eighteen will be interesting to see.
 
She didn't loose her grant but she has to pay taxes since she is remarried.
AFAIR, Muhler, it was said back in 2004/2005 that she receives the grant because she will continue her work with some of her patronages. I think Joachim has to pay alimony for his sons. And Alexandra (or her sons?) got the villa as an adequate place to live for 2 princes.

Viv
I suppose it depends on whom you ask:)
I suppose that is very true. A friend of mine who visited Copenhagen last year asked someone about the crown princess and was told that she is not popular. Yet, all polls of the last years (I know of) had her on top as the most popular member of the RF, together with Queen Margrethe.

Since Alexandra is no longer a member of the RF she is not included in polls. So it's difficult to say. She is certainly no longer the media's darling. But every Dane I personally know still respects her, especially for her conduct during and since the divorce.
 
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AFAIR, Muhler, it was said back in 2004/2005 that she receives the grant because she will continue her work with some of her patronages. I think Joachim has to pay alimony for his sons. And Alexandra (or her sons?) got the villa as an adequate place to live for 2 princes.

Ricarda, your memory is better than mine :flowers:! Prince Joachim is paying alimony for his sons! I just found the the outline of the bill stating, that Alexandra's apanage should compensate her royal duties PLUS support an 'appropriate' life style. Some legal technicalities: The amount was called 'apanage' as long as she remained a princess, after marrying Martin Jørgensen it became a special grant, now subject to tax and V.A.T, as you pointed out!

The house in Copenhagen was 'on Joachim'; it was part of the pre-nup!

viv

Why do you think the interaction will be an issue when P Nikolai is confirmed. The entire family has been together at childrens birthdays so why would this event be different?

I'm just curious, that's all! It will be the first time the two families team up in public view at a semi formal event, if I remember correctly! You cannot compare an informal birthday party with 'pap shots' of people coming and going with the confirmation at Fredensborg! This time they'll have to line up for the family photos!

viv
 
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I'm just curious, that's all! It will be the first time the two families team up in public view at a semi formal event, if I remember correctly! You cannot compare an informal birthday party with 'pap shots' of people coming and going with the confirmation at Fredensborg! This time they'll have to line up for the family photos!

viv

The adults were all present together at one of the events to celebrate the Ruby Jubilee. And that was a fully formal event- tiaras included.
 
Since Alexandra is no longer a member of the RF she is not included in polls. So it's difficult to say. She is certainly no longer the media's darling. But every Dane I personally know still respects her, especially for her conduct during and since the divorce.

I for one have changed my opinion on her.

It seems it has been hard on her to give up her royal privileges - she is known for snobbish behaviour at restaurants, insisting on her parking her car right outside entrance doors, but with no driver she just leaves the car and blocks traffic etc.

This blog has an interesting account on Alexandra: http://tomorrowscrownedheads.blogspot.dk/2011/02/hun-behandlede-ham-som-et-pjok.html

Translation: http://translate.google.com/transla...k/2011/02/hun-behandlede-ham-som-et-pjok.html
 
The adults were all present together at one of the events to celebrate the Ruby Jubilee. And that was a fully formal event- tiaras included.

Well, that was the night at the opera! Alexandra was there in the capacity as patron of the Radio Denmark girls choir - it was explicitly mentioned by royalty experts at the time - and not because she was a former member of the royal family. She wore her tiara because the invitation said 'tiaras may be worn' ;)!
You know I expect everyone to be on their best behaviour at Prince Nikolai's confirmation. However it has been suggested more than once, also by the more reputable media, that the relationship between Alexandra and HM has been strained. - Whatever it's like these days both ladies are smart enough not to take it out on the children, even though it came pretty close at the baptism of Prince Christian in 2005!

viv
 
Well, that was the night at the opera! Alexandra was there in the capacity as patron of the Radio Denmark girls choir - it was explicitly mentioned by royalty experts at the time - and not because she was a former member of the royal family. She wore her tiara because the invitation said 'tiaras may be worn' ;)!
You know I expect everyone to be on their best behaviour at Prince Nikolai's confirmation. However it has been suggested more than once, also by the more reputable media, that the relationship between Alexandra and HM has been strained. - Whatever it's like these days both ladies are smart enough not to take it out on the children, even though it came pretty close at the baptism of Prince Christian in 2005!

viv

what happened in 2005? if you dont mind me asking.
I always thought the Queen had a good relationship with Alexandra.
 
what happened in 2005? if you dont mind me asking. .
Of course not :): At the baptism of Prince Christian ( in 2006 and not 2005 as I first wrote), the divorced Alexandra was still a princess, though no longer a royal highness!

Alexandra arrived at the chapel with her sons. She handed them over to Prince Joachim, who was waiting in the porch. Then Joachim and sons proceeded to the top seats designated to the royal family while Alexandra was seated in the pews further down, together with other minor RF members. The procedure was reversed at the end of the service.

It didn't make things better that young Prince Felix was crying most of the time, he had a cold or something, if I remember correctly, and Joachim was busy trying to comfort him!

Now the Danes were watching this on TV in disbelief, and the RF received a lot of criticism for letting protocol prevail over common sense. I admit that protocol- wise it's a hard nut to crack but IMHO it could have been solved by seating the boys with their mother or even better: Alexandra could have opted for a diplomatic cold and excused herself!

I always thought the Queen had a good relationship with Alexandra.
They probably did until Alexandra rocked the royal boat ;)!

viv
 
This blog has an interesting account on Alexandra: Tomorrows crowned heads: ♔ Hun behandlede ham som et pjok!! ♔

Translation: Google Translate
I am sorry, but this "account" is Trine TRASH. I can't take it seriously (starting with that nonsense about Joachim being forced to marry Alexandra; IMO he was clearly in love with her). And I am writing this as someone who used to defend Joachim back in 2004/2005 when the media and members of this board portrayed him as the villain. :flowers:

Viv, I did not know Alexandra's seating was an issue back then and the DRF was criticized for it. All I can remember is that she wore a coat dress which showed a lot of her leg and that she talked to the press for a long time despite having a sick child on her arm. I actually was quite critical towards HER outfit and behaviour. But I remember she was praised for her media-friendliness in one magazine (whereas the CP couple was criticized for being media-unfriendly at that time).
 
The seating arrangement might just as well have been a simple miscalculation.
There was hardly any precendence protocol-wise for dealing with divorced royals.
QMII, who had the final say in regards to the protocol, could not have predicted that Felix would be ill and whimping.
I don't believe Alexandra could have "excused" herself. That would have been seen as a snub of the DRF and fuelled endless speculations. In hindsight the best option would have been to hand Felix over to a nanny.

However, IF QMII was somewhat displeased with Alexandra, we can hardly blame her. Joachim is after all her son and there is a tendency to side with your children after a divorce.
The DRF certainly appear to have a good relationship with Alexandra now and that's what matters - not least in regards to Nikolai and Felix.
So whoever was at fault in regards to the divorce (there are usually faults on both sides) Joachim and Alexandra have certainly handled it in a very mature manner.
Alexandra in particular certainly has no reason to complain, IMO.

And I agree with Ricarda, Trine Villemann's habit of relying on anonymous sources, her obvious bias, speculations and complete lack of objectiveness means any opinion from her should be read very carefully indeed.
 
Viv, I did not know Alexandra's seating was an issue back then and the DRF was criticized for it. All I can remember is that she wore a coat dress which showed a lot of her leg and that she talked to the press for a long time despite having a sick child on her arm. I actually was quite critical towards HER outfit and behaviour. But I remember she was praised for her media-friendliness in one magazine (whereas the CP couple was criticized for being media-unfriendly at that time).

Ricarda, the seating arrangement were subject to many comments from the royal correspondents! They thought- as I did - that it was clumsily handled by the royal court! They (the court !) had had several weeks to consider the planning, and the issue of the attendance of a divorced princess could hardly have caught them by surprise, unless of course there were circumstances that we - the general public - didn't know about! As a member of the royal house they had to invite her, and by accepting, Alexandra - unwittingly ?? -got the attention for all the wrong reasons. And now you mention it: yes, her outfit was a bit on the vulgar side;)!

As for Alexandras media exposure/handling at the time: don't forget that she was very popular back then! Besides, she was still thought to be the wronged woman, she drew a lot of mileage from the public sympathy!

It's probably not easy to make the transition from a popular princess and media darling to a has been.

Over and out!

viv
 
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It's probably not easy to make the transition from a popular princess and media darling to a has been.


viv

Spot on!

The wedding of Joachim and Alexandra was actually what started my "grown up" interest in royalty - and I did follow Alexandra when she was the Princess often out and about. My opinion on her started to change when it became obvious that she had a private side not at all in harmony with the smiling Princess.

Trine Villemann has written some trash - that doesn't make everything she says untrue. Others have reported on Alexandra's behaviour - including a former nanny of Prince Nikolai.
 
Trine Villemann has written some trash - that doesn't make everything she says untrue. Others have reported on Alexandra's behaviour - including a former nanny of Prince Nikolai.

I strongly disagree, basically everything Trine Villemann has ever written about royals is utter bollocks, and she has no other intention but to badmouth them and get attention.


It actually surprises how big a thing Alexandra's bad "behaviour" and relationship to Martin is. It may be because I've held a great fondness for Alexandra basically since I was old enough to understand what royalty is, but also because I've never seen an actual "bad side" of her. Sure enough, I've only seen her from a distance and have never actually interacted with her, but she seems to me as such a lovely human being - always a smile on her face and a compassion beyond compare. She had a real bad time in Møgeltønder, she never really found her place there as Marie has done, and I'm pretty sure that being married to Joachim wasn't the easiest (it takes two to break up a marriage and we all saw the countless of times Joachim was out enjoying himself on various night clubs). I haven't ever seen anything that would make suspect a bad relationship between the Queen and Prince Henrik, and Alexandra, so I must say I think some of the criticism is unjustified, but obviously we all have different opinions.
 
It actually surprises how big a thing Alexandra's bad "behaviour" and relationship to Martin is.

I wouldn't say it is a big deal. Really the latest fuss on her was when she married Martin Jørgensen. We don't hear much about her these days. Occasionally there is some media coverage of an outing, but that is mostly when she brings the boys. Sometimes there is criticism of her still receiving money from the State. She sure was an asset when she was part of the royal family - but nine years of "duty" shouldn't entitle her to a life long pension.

That I personally changed my mind on her has less to do with her relationship with Martin and more to do with her still demanding special treatment. She chose to leeve the royal family - that is also a goodbye to special privileges.
 
I wouldn't say it is a big deal. Really the latest fuss on her was when she married Martin Jørgensen. We don't hear much about her these days. Occasionally there is some media coverage of an outing, but that is mostly when she brings the boys. Sometimes there is criticism of her still receiving money from the State. She sure was an asset when she was part of the royal family - but nine years of "duty" shouldn't entitle her to a life long pension.

That I personally changed my mind on her has less to do with her relationship with Martin and more to do with her still demanding special treatment. She chose to leeve the royal family - that is also a goodbye to special privileges.

In here it seems to be a big deal, but whatever.

She should be entitled to a life long pension (unless she permanently move out of the country, that is) because she is the mother of two Danish Princes, and because she still carries out duties and have patronages - not a lot, but some. I don't think it's about her "demanding" special treatment, I think it was a decision made by QMII, Joachim and whoever decides this sort of things.
 
Who was the "good friend." Was something lost in translation?
 
No, there wasn't anything lost, the article said he did not attend with his better half, but with a good friend instead. The good friend wasn't mentioned by name, but it sounded like it's been a good male friend. And in case it's been a female friend, that of course doesn't mean anything.
 
Alexandra has looked fantastic since the divorce. I thought her style as a royal was quite staid and dull.

Does Alexandra have a job in Denmark? I remember at the time of the divorce there was talk of her possibly becoming a member of a board(s) of various companies.
 
:previous: Not that I know of. She may be a member of a board or two, but not within commerce.
My qualified guess is that Alexandra has invested very well and is living a comfortable life from these investments.
It's another matter with Martin Jørgensen, since at least one or two of his projects appears to have been less successful. But their assets seems to be seperate, so Alexandra is unaffected.
 
:previous: Not that I know of. She may be a member of a board or two, but not within commerce.
My qualified guess is that Alexandra has invested very well and is living a comfortable life from these investments.
It's another matter with Martin Jørgensen, since at least one or two of his projects appears to have been less successful. But their assets seems to be seperate, so Alexandra is unaffected.
I imagine her state funded apanage, even though now taxable, helps lessen the burden on poor Martin considerably:whistling: and allows for their comfortable lifestyle.
 
I imagine her state funded apanage, even though now taxable, helps lessen the burden on poor Martin considerably:whistling: and allows for their comfortable lifestyle.

And Joachim pays child support as well.

No, I don't believe the appanage and child support would be enough to pay for the lifestyle Alexandra and Martin live.

Even though Alexandra got a big house in a posh neighborhood for free and don't have to pay mortgage, she nevertheless has to pay for maintanaince, taxes, electricity, heating, insurance, , school, salary for a part-time secretary/PA and so on.
Alexandra has also bought a house in Turkey, to mention one of the major investments.
Judging from her appearance, the children's appearance, two annual vacations - not to Costa del Aquaworld mind you - And even factoring in Martin's income - (and I don't have the impression he is doing much travelling as a photographer, nor have I seen much of his work) - as a supplement to the household, I'd say they have other means as well.

The apanage and childsupport will pay for the children and cover the basic expences according to my rough estimate. Everything else is for bread and clothes as well as jam on the bread.

According to a thumbrule I was told about a few years ago, you have to have a fortune/investments worth between 5-8 million DKK, in order to live a comfortable middleclass lifestyle here in DK, without having to work.
I'd say Alexandra and Martin have a lifestyle comparable to lower class millionaires. It's certainly not my impression they have problems making ends meet, nor do they life on ryebread and rice porridge at the end of the month.
That's why I believe Alexandra, this is after all her field, has made some sound investments.
 
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Might she have an inheritance from Mr Manley? I have no idea if he was wealthy or not.
 
Might she have an inheritance from Mr Manley? I have ni idea if he was wealthy or not.

Perhaps, but that must be limited. There are two siblings and the mother to take into account.
I don't believe Alexandra was without means when she married Joachim however.
 
Forgive me but I know very little about the significance of royal titles. Does an income come with them? Political power or a position in Parliament? If not, why are people so concerned about retaining a title after a divorce. Alexandra became a countess. Diana was still princess of Wales but not her royal highness. I remember people were very concerned that they kept a title.
 
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