Costs, Income, Fortune and Expenditures of the Danish Royal Family


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Queen Elizabeth 4 millarden euro's (which I assume is billion. owns Rio Tinto etc.)

Where did you get the information about HM owning Rio Tinto?
 
I can find no evidence that she does.
 
The Queen and Rio Tinto

I could post the entire American Almanac article of 25 august 1997. But this thread is not about British royals and the moderators would probably delete it. It is common knowledge in Australia that QEII owns 52 % of Rio. Ask any stockbroker.
 
This is most interesting!

We have the official expences for having a monarchy in Denmark in 2009. As presented by the Prime Minister, Lars Løkke.

The official report will be published later today.

Så mange millioner koster kongehuset os om året - Politik - BT.dk

The total expences amounts to 342 million DKK.
Of that the apanage, to run the royal household and cover salaries for staff and other expenses amounts to 97.6 million DKK.
Other expenses covered by the various ministries amounts to 244.6 million DKK.
- That covers protection, royal yacht and crew, guard, transport, maintanaince of the palaces and so and so.

342 million DKK is roughly 45 million €, roughly 62 million US $ or roughly 38 million £.

With 5.4 million citizens in Denmark, that amounts to 63 DKK for every citizen. Which you can't even get a familiy pizza for. Instead you can buy six litres of gas for that amount.
 
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Talk about value for money! Thank you Muhler. I always find the annual expenditure report most interesting.
 
Instead you can buy six litres of gas for that amount.

Not meaning to derail the topic - but where are you buying your gas, Muhler? 6 litres for dkk. 63,- - what a bargain!
 
Not meaning to derail the topic - but where are you buying your gas, Muhler? 6 litres for dkk. 63,- - what a bargain!

At a station on the way to work. They often dump their prizes. And as I usually drive past very early or very late I avoid the queue as well. :)
There are sometimes advantages in living in a village. :p
So I'd say on average I pay a little less than 10.50 per litre.

Let me return to the expenses for the DRF in 2009.

This was the first time a thorough official analasys has been made. You can see it here: http://multimedia.jp.dk/archive/00262/Offentlige_udgifter_262211a.pdf pdf file and in Danish.

Expences for the Royal Life Guard standing guard and ceremonial: 98.2 million DKK.
The Guards Hussars, ceremonial: 43.2 million DKK.
Maintaining the palaces and gardens: 45.5 million DKK.

There are also a number of other interesting details in this report: Like 1.260 people met QMII or the Regent at seventeen public audiences.

There are 135 employees attached to the court. (Presumably all of them paid for by the DRF).

Expenses per ministry:

The PM's office (Statsministeriet): 285.000 DKK.

The Foreign Ministry: 14.000.000. (Primarily to cover expenses on connection with travels).

The Treasury: 45.505.000 DKK. (Mainly to cover maintnaince of property).

The Ministry of Defence: 183.706.000 DKK.
Transport: 2.169.000 DKK.
Dannebrog, the royal yacht: 33.733.000 DKK.
Adjutants: 5.387.000 DKK.
The Royal Lifeguards, including music corps and ceremonial: 98.266.000 DKK.
The Guards Hussars, ceremonial: 43.191.000 DKK.

Ministry of Interior and Health: 250.000 DKK. (For services for the DRF travelling in DK).

Ministry of Church (for the royal Confessionarius): 102.000 DKK.

Ministry of Environment, for services in connection with royal hunts: 444.000 DKK.

Minstry of Transport: 305.000.

The Ministry of Justice, under which PET belongs, has not been mentioned in this report.
 
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Just read the official report.

Interesting read (if you read Danish). I'm surprised how little the monarchy is running us. I once saw an estimate by some professional in the international tourism industry (IIRC) on how much the monarchy was worth (i.e. how much money they generate).

Sadly, I don't recall his estimate. It would be fun, though, to make the comparison.

I heard on the radio, how much the French presidency was running France, and (as I understood it) in direct costs it was 1 billion euro.

That's 22 times as much as the DRF.

Even if it was the TOTAL cost, and the cost was to be comparable, citizen for citizen, France should have a population of 119 million. Almost twice its actual population.

And how much (positive) branding is Sarkozy generating for France?
 
One of the more interesting reactions to this report was from Ole Sohn, MP for the Socialists Peoples Party.

He went on the news last night and said he didn't see any problems with the expenses in regards to the royal hunts (which probably went against what the journalist hoped for) as it is common sense to have forresters around for safety reasons at a hunt where a considerable number of people take part.
He added that even though he is republican, he believe the DRF are doing a fine job.

Now, as Ole Sohn (incidentally ex-leader of the Communist Party) very likely is going to become the finance minister after the next general election, he does know what he is talking about, when it's about finances.
Ole Sohn is among the few politicians I respect, (even though I wouldn't dream about voting for his party) because he is a pragmatic.

A little background note: In Denmark politics may not be what it looks like.
The Socialists Peoples Party is classified as a left-wing party, but in many ways it's politically to the right of the Social Democrats, which is classified as a center-left party.
To make matters even more complicated: The Socialists Peoples Party compete with the Danish Peoples Party, which is classified as an extreme right-wing party, for a considerable segment of the voters.
 
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One of the more interesting reactions to this report was from Ole Sohn, MP for the Socialists Peoples Party.

He went on the news last night and said he didn't see any problems with the expenses in regards to the royal hunts (which probably went against what the journalist hoped for) as it is common sense to have forresters around for safety reasons at a hunt where a considerable number of people take part.
He added that even though he is republican, he believe the DRF are doing a fine job.

Now, as Ole Sohn (incidentally ex-leader of the Communist Party) very likely is going to become the finance minister after the next general election, he does know what he is talking about, when it's about finances.
Ole Sohn is among the few politicians I respect, (even though I wouldn't dream about voting for his party) because he is a pragmatic.

A little background note: In Denmark politics may not be what it looks like.
The Socialists Peoples Party is classified as a left-wing party, but in many ways it's politically to the right of the Social Democrats, which is classified as a center-left party.
To make matters even more complicated: The Socialists Peoples Party compete with the Danish Peoples Party, which is classified as an extreme right-wing party, for a considerable segment of the voters.

Thanks for the background on the political parties. Anyone know if Frederick and Mary stayed within their budget? I know they have had some problems in the past.
 
I think the report will only be made public next year. Last year, they were definetly on budget :) And the report that Muhler translated here, was about the 2009 expenses, too :)
 
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Thanks for the background on the political parties. Anyone know if Frederick and Mary stayed within their budget? I know they have had some problems in the past.

That's correct. They had to cut down on the number of staff and introduce some additional savings.

It's hardly a novel situation for a new business, which is expanding rapidly, as M&F's court was.
When they married Frederik's apanage was raised considerably and he or rather they had to establish a seperate court within the DRF, with their own administration, personal staff and to some extent personal advisors.
While at the same time also establishing a home in Kancellihuset.

Okay, they found out that they had expanded their staff beynd their budget and cutbacks were needed.
Most of these staff members found jobs elsewhere within the public sector, because public employees have a jobbank, where they have priority.

Now they seem to have reached a balance in regards to expenses.

That is something other newly formed companies learn the hard way. Because the DRF can very much be compared to a company.

The president is QMII, her executive is the Chief of Court, and Prince Henrik is the formal vice-president.
QMII is in charge of the whole company.

In addition to that she has two managers, Frederik and Joachim, who each run their little branch of the family business. Their assistant managers are Mary and Marie. The executive of Frederik's little part of the firm is their chief of court.

The company also has a representative, Benedikte.

The board is the Parliament and the shareholders are the Danish taxpayers.
 
Ten percent is not a whole lot, I wonder how much of it goes to her personal staff?
 
I couldn't agree more Madame Royale :) IMO Mary could be 'forgiven' for having roughly the same wardrobe as her fellow princesses if only she would have the decency to look like crap in it!;) Then her adversaries could focus on the numerous ways she re-uses her wardrobe and criticise her for that. Instead she looks elegant and is good at combining her wardrobe pieces in news ways - an unforgivable crime:D

As to Rania... well, judging from the pictures of her wardrobe - and combining this with the criticism such a wardrobe would trigger had it been e.g. Mette-Marit or - God forbid - Mary! - I must conclude that Rania is the queen of a country which is so rich, stable and economically well-balanced for all that it's citizens must be in a state of near-permanent bless! Otherwise some of Mary's most vocal opponents in the dress department would surely comment on Rania - wouldn't they?
As far as I can tell, Rania borrows her clothes and Noor did the same thing.
 
As far as I can tell, Rania borrows her clothes and Noor did the same thing.

That's interesting. Is there a source which would suggest the possibilty that her wardrobe is borrowed that you may know of? If not that's fine, I'm just curious to know if there's anything you may have come across which would support your observation :)
 
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That's interesting. Is there a source which would suggest the possibilty that her wardrobe is borrowed that you may know of? If not that's fine, I'm just curious to know if there's anything you may have come across which would support your observation :)

I would like to know that too, since I have only seen posts railing against Rania for having gold shoes made. How lovely it would be to counter with an article that proves that she too is budget conscious.

I like that the Danish are transparent with their budget, apparently other houses are not so transparent.
 
As far as I can tell, Rania borrows her clothes and Noor did the same thing.

Where are you getting all you information from, regarding borrowing of clothes by Royal ladies?
 
Jordan not so rich

I couldn't agree more Madame Royale :) IMO Mary could be 'forgiven' for having roughly the same wardrobe as her fellow princesses if only she would have the decency to look like crap in it!;) Then her adversaries could focus on the numerous ways she re-uses her wardrobe and criticise her for that. Instead she looks elegant and is good at combining her wardrobe pieces in news ways - an unforgivable crime:D

As to Rania... well, judging from the pictures of her wardrobe - and combining this with the criticism such a wardrobe would trigger had it been e.g. Mette-Marit or - God forbid - Mary! - I must conclude that Rania is the queen of a country which is so rich, stable and economically well-balanced for all that it's citizens must be in a state of near-permanent bless! Otherwise some of Mary's most vocal opponents in the dress department would surely comment on Rania - wouldn't they?


I don't think that Jordan is that rich of a nation, it doesn't have vast oil or natural gas reserves when compared to it's neighbours. I suspect that the royal family is independently wealthy and thus allowing for Rania's huge expenditure on clothing. She seems to be the new Diana in terms of her impact on fashion.
 
I hear what you are saying, and am amused by your sense of humour. One thing that I am aware of since joining TRF is that Mary seems to attract alot of criticsm (incl my own) as she seems so unnatrual and always tries to better others. And that is why Maxima and Rania get away with it as they are not percieved by the public in the same way. It could all be rubbish, and Mary is probably a wonderful person, yet even looking at a clip of her from news yesterday, there seems to be something very fake about her manner. The only time she revealed her proper self was when she spoke about her late mother on the pre wedding documentary. Maxima, Rania, Mette Marit all have something refreshing about their manner, so they get bashed less!

I respect your opinion and taken on board.

And I completely disagree with you. The reason Mary attracts alot of attention that the other CP do not is because she has set a high standard for herself. She is doing a brilliant job from what most Danes have been saying and she does it with style and IMO a dignified manner. That might come off as snobby to some.
Her spending is criticised alot because she looks amazing in them. Most people jump to the conclusion she spends alot because she always looks darn good but that is the strength of the woman that wears the clothes. She knows what she looks good in and what is flattering on her. It seems to me that the other CPs spend alot more (based on the numbers here) on themselves than Mary but still can't grab the same attention for their fashion style like she does. It is not a matter of trying to 'better' others but doing herself and her country justice by doing her absolute best to look her absolute best. Maybe you should be asking why aren't the others stepping up their game?
She is also a patron of the Fashion Industry of Denmark so there is even more reason for her to look the part. Being a patron of such an industry would give her the perks of picking from the best designer outfits the country has to offer so maybe there is an advantage to that.
 
I don't think that Jordan is that rich of a nation, it doesn't have vast oil or natural gas reserves when compared to it's neighbours. I suspect that the royal family is independently wealthy and thus allowing for Rania's huge expenditure on clothing. She seems to be the new Diana in terms of her impact on fashion.


Actually Jordan is a rather poor country.
 
Translation of article in Ekstra Bladet, Wednesday 16th March 2011.
Mary og Frede i indkøbs-rus – Mary and Frede in shopping frenzy.
Written by: Jan Körner. (Yeees, that kind of says it all…).
Ekstra Bladet - Mary og Frede i indkbs-rus

The year after Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary sacked five employees, due to excess consumption; the pair has once again gone amok in a major frenzy of shopping. (1)
Compared to 2009 their consumption went up with more than 100 % during 2010, according to documents which are publicly available in which Ekstra Bladet has had access to, about the refunding of vat, (2) by various members of the DRF.
In 2009 the CP coupled spend a little more than five million DKK, while the spending in 2010 exploded and ended up at a little more that 11.3 million DKK.

In reality Frede and Mary got away with paying 9.1 million DKK for their purchased goods, because they got the vat of a little more than 2.2 million DKK back in refund. (3)

When the couple sacked five employees in the beginning of 2009 it was after all with a declaration of intending to cut down on the excess spending. (4)

“The terminations have been made for economical reasons in order to adapt the resources for present and future needs”. Is what the DRF communication chief, Lene Balleby said back then. (5)

2009 only generated a surplus for 22.178 DKK, (6) that’s in stark contrast to the 500.000 DKK they used additionally every month of 2010.

According the DRF chief of economy, Søren Kruse, the explanation for the extravagant spending is that the couple has moved in at their newly renovated palais.
“It’s obvious that things needs to be bought, when you move into a new palais. It was after all a naked palais. So the refunding of vat is dependant of the consuming of goods”, says the (economic) chief of court to Ekstra Bladet.

The amount of 11.3 million DKK is only related to goods on which there is vat, and not salaries for the employees.

That means that the CP-couple’s economy must be close to bursting after the hefty shopping sprees. (7)
In 2009 they had expenses for salary for 10.4 million DKK, expenses running costs amounted to a little less than 2.5 million DKK, while expenses for property amounted to 869.576 DKK.
The comparative expenses constituted in 2010 22.8 million DKK, including expenses for goods at 9.1 million DKK.
The apanage however “only” constituted 18.5 million DKK, which amount to a deficit for 4.3 million DKK.
According to the latest account from Amalienborg Frede do not possess such means and he has probably had to borrow from his mother.

In 2009 Frede and Mary had short-term mortgages for a little more than 3.5 million DKK.

(1) Meaning general purchasing, not just shopping.

(2) Vat in DK constitutes 25%.

(3) The DRF do not pay vat. In reality they pay full price initially, save their receipts and get a refund from the state.

(4) The declaration of intent, is pretty freely interpreted by Ekstra Bladet, so is the expression: “Excess spending”.

(5) Like so many newly founded companies, (which is basically what the CP-court is from an economical viewpoint) and dare I say families as well, M&F probably found out that they had expanded too rapidly and had to cut costs.

(6) Which is a wise move by a company depending on allocated funds. – You don’t have too big a surplus, or you’ll have problems getting a raise in your funding.
You’ll see something similar in other public sectors, which find out they have a surplus towards the end of the year.

(7) Speculation. We don’t know the private economy of M&F. This is just the turnover of their “company”. – And all companies invest from time to time.

Okay, this in one of Ekstra Bladet’s favorite themes and you need to read the text and the figures very carefully, because figures can so easily be manipulated.

Apanage/income in 2010: 18.5 million DKK.

Expenses for salaries: 10.4 million DKK.
Running costs. I.e. uniforms, food for the staff, transport and so on: 2.5 million DKK.
Expenses in connection with their property. Kancellihuset and towards the end of 2010, also their palais at Amalienborg. I.e. water, heating, electricity, garbage disposal and so on: 869.000 DKK.

Then we have purchasing of good, of all kinds, which are vat-refundable: 9.1 million DKK minus vat.
That covers their personal expenses, presents, private and official, furniture for themselves in their new home, but also furnishing for their staff, wardrobes, towels, desks, chairs, cooking utensils, eating accommodation and so on. A myriad of things!
Not to mention furnishing the “official” parts of their new home, as well as their private apartment.
Then we have “work-clothes”, in the shape of suits and dresses.

Whether they overspend personally is not for me to decide, I can only say that they had plenty of additional expenses last year as well as this year.
 
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This reminds me of a friend of a friend, who bought a ticket for a hundred dollars for charity, the prize being a beautiful new house. This acquaintance actually won the thing and after the initial excitement wound up selling it quickly. He couldn't afford to live in it with the taxes, heating, upkeep, etc.

I don't pity M and F, (in the end they're wealthy people and the amount of money they receive is only going to grow), but they've been in a tough situation in that they were expected to establish a household befitting the crown princely couple immediately after they got married, in addition to setting up their old home. Then only a couple of years later they were handed a lovely, but empty, palace, with all the accompanying increases in costs. None of this is cheap and I don't see many ways that they can cut costs.
 
I don't pity M and F, (in the end they're wealthy people and the amount of money they receive is only going to grow), but they've been in a tough situation in that they were expected to establish a household befitting the crown princely couple immediately after they got married, in addition to setting up their old home. Then only a couple of years later they were handed a lovely, but empty, palace, with all the accompanying increases in costs. None of this is cheap and I don't see many ways that they can cut costs.

The question is how wealthy they actually are! I mean they ( well, Frederik) are not exactly paupers and they've probably saved a little for a rainy day. However the Danish RF is not known for their private assests, and I doubt that there is much left of the annual civil list money for the piggy bank!
Queen Ingrid allegedly inherited of the Swedish RF fortune and allegedly invested wisely, but these are just rumours, and even if they weren't, she had to help out her youngest daugther setting up home in exile- allegedly! - before anything could be bequeathed to her elder daugthers.

TRH are sometimes critizised for hanging out with wealthy friends willing to pick up the bill. If this is the case, they're not the only royals to do so, and I for one don't mind as long as nothing improper is going on:). But as we have seen in another monarchy lately: the royals really need to watch their step and to scrutinize their friends!

Viv
 
The DRF 'not very wealthy?'

I have recently read an article about HM the (late) Queen Alexandra of England, who was born HRH Princess Alexandra of Denmark in 1844 (She passed away 1925).
The article did state that DRF was not wealthy in that era; she and her sister, HRH Princess Dagmar of Denmark, had to sew and assemble the clothes they wore, while still princesses of Denmark.
I have read also that HM the (late) King Frederik IX knew 'how to handle a vacuum cleaner.' The same article also suggested that the DRF was not wealthy at that time and nor are they considered wealthy to this day. I hope someone can elaborate to help explain the term 'not very wealthy' and how accurate is that term to refer to the DRF? What bases are used to come to that conclusion? Is the DRF considered not wealthy only when compared to other royal houses?
The fact that HM Queen Alexandra had inherited 'otosclerosis' from her mother was also pointed out. Has any other royal who is descended from Alexandra or from
her mother ever been diagnosed with the same condition? Or has this inherited condition 'died out' in Europe's royal houses, such as seems the case with the genetic condition haemophilia in HM the (late) Queen Victoria's descendants? Anybody know the 'inside scoop?' Or, not?
 
I have recently read an article about HM the (late) Queen Alexandra of England, who was born HRH Princess Alexandra of Denmark in 1844 (She passed away 1925).
The article did state that DRF was not wealthy in that era; she and her sister, HRH Princess Dagmar of Denmark, had to sew and assemble the clothes they wore, while still princesses of Denmark.
I have read also that HM the (late) King Frederik IX knew 'how to handle a vacuum cleaner.' The same article also suggested that the DRF was not wealthy at that time and nor are they considered wealthy to this day. I hope someone can elaborate to help explain the term 'not very wealthy' and how accurate is that term to refer to the DRF? What bases are used to come to that conclusion? Is the DRF considered not wealthy only when compared to other royal houses?
The fact that HM Queen Alexandra had inherited 'otosclerosis' from her mother was also pointed out. Has any other royal who is descended from Alexandra or from
her mother ever been diagnosed with the same condition? Or has this inherited condition 'died out' in Europe's royal houses, such as seems the case with the genetic condition haemophilia in HM the (late) Queen Victoria's descendants? Anybody know the 'inside scoop?' Or, not?

I'd say not wealthy compared to other royal families.
Compared to other Danes a qualified estimate would make them millionaires but not particularly rich.
If they weren't royals I believe QMII and PH could live from the interests of their fortune, but it would be a fairly modest though comfortable life.
M&F would have to work to maintain a living standard comparable to how they live today. Except for the palaces and luxury cars of course. Something akin to the living standard of Joachim and our Marie. I.e. modest millionaires.

It's true Queen Alexandra lived a very modest life when she was a child. They were probably not wanting but their living standard wouldn't have differed much from a middle class family of the period.
That they made their own clothing can be misleading. They probably did to save money, but such skills were actually considered essential and certainly beneficial for women. Not to mention that it kept them occupied. Middleclass women of that period didn't go out and got a job, unless they were in need or were a bit rebellious.

As for Frederik IX wielding a vacuum cleaner. Well, don't put too much into that. It's more likely that he enjoyed doing some practical work from time to time. Especially on holiday where there was little in any cleaning staff around.
Apart from that the DRF also had to cut down on costs and luxury items during WWII and from that period they would have been used to a more modest living.
And it wouldn't have been something completely novel for Frederik IX. He would have been used to (and perhaps even enjoyed) doing a good deal of work himself in the navy as a young cadet.

As for ostosclerosis: I haven't heard anything about that in the DRF.
However it seems to be very obvious that Queen Ingrid suffered from osteoporosis. And that condition can be heriditary, especially from mother to daughter. In DK that used to be known as: Engelsk syge = English illness.
 
I believe Engelsk syge refers to what is called Rickets, a debilitating condition resulting from vitamin D deficiency. Queen Ingrid was reported to have osteoporosis which is a different condition.
 
I believe Engelsk syge refers to what is called Rickets, a debilitating condition resulting from vitamin D deficiency. Queen Ingrid was reported to have osteoporosis which is a different condition.

Thank you, Grevinnan :flowers:
I learned something new today.
 
Muhler said:
I'd say not wealthy compared to other royal families.
Compared to other Danes a qualified estimate would make them millionaires but not particularly rich.
If they weren't royals I believe QMII and PH could live from the interests of their fortune, but it would be a fairly modest though comfortable life.
M&F would have to work to maintain a living standard comparable to how they live today. Except for the palaces and luxury cars of course. Something akin to the living standard of Joachim and our Marie. I.e. modest millionaires.

It's true Queen Alexandra lived a very modest life when she was a child. They were probably not wanting but their living standard wouldn't have differed much from a middle class family of the period.
That they made their own clothing can be misleading. They probably did to save money, but such skills were actually considered essential and certainly beneficial for women. Not to mention that it kept them occupied. Middleclass women of that period didn't go out and got a job, unless they were in need or were a bit rebellious.

As for Frederik IX wielding a vacuum cleaner. Well, don't put too much into that. It's more likely that he enjoyed doing some practical work from time to time. Especially on holiday where there was little in any cleaning staff around.
Apart from that the DRF also had to cut down on costs and luxury items during WWII and from that period they would have been used to a more modest living.
And it wouldn't have been something completely novel for Frederik IX. He would have been used to (and perhaps even enjoyed) doing a good deal of work himself in the navy as a young cadet.

As for ostosclerosis: I haven't heard anything about that in the DRF.
However it seems to be very obvious that Queen Ingrid suffered from osteoporosis. And that condition can be heriditary, especially from mother to daughter. In DK that used to be known as: Engelsk syge = English illness.



Queen Alexandra lost her sense of hearing as she aged. She had 'otosclerosis,' which inherited from her mother.
'Otosclerosis' is prefix => 'oto' = ear(s), eardrum(s);
root word => 'scler/o = hardening (of);
suffix => 'osis, oses' = condition(s) of (having)
I am used of dealing with medical terms on a daily basis. I do understand that medical terms that seem similar are not necessarily similar. 'Otosclerosis' is the hardening of the eardrums as one ages. I read that the once PssOW, HMQA, was profoundly deaf even before her m-i-l, HMQV, passed away in 1901.
Any known descendants of HMQA or her mother ever diagnosed with the condition? I would think it to be peculiar, not impossible, that no descendants have ever been diagnosed with otosclerosis since Alexandra. Anyone have info regarding this?
 
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