Costs, Income, Fortune and Expenditures of the Danish Royal Family

[tommy100]

I think the fact its now revealed the Queen suggested the allowance will put more pressure on Alexandra to give it up. Personally I think Joachim should give her some of the money from the sale of Schackenborg in return for her giving up the allowance.
It really is a no win situation IMO, on one hand I can see that really its a bit unfair that she gets an allowance for not doing anything but on the other hand she did work before she became a Princess and probably would have being doing well if she hadn't had to give it up.
I'd be interested to know if she wasn't allowed to work after the divorce (hence why she was given an allowance) or if it was choice. If it was made clear that the RF and the Government didn't want a former member of the Royal Family working for a business then I can see why they gave her an allowance.
Think about all the trouble with Sarah Ferguson after she left the British RF, maybe they wanted to avoid scandals like that.

 

[royal rob]

I think you might be right. Wanting to avoid what happened with Sarah


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[tommy100]

The other issues is that at the time of their separation then divorce people including the Royal Court probably thought of Alexandra being around for much longer, the single mum of two Prince's, another in effect 'royal lady' doing a few duties here and there. However once she and then Joachim re-married her role became even less and the ex-wife, re-married herself and then Joachim with a new wife and thus Princess to take on Alexandra's old role.

I know its going off topic but its similar to what people have said about the 'pre-nup' of Mary and Fred when the part about her getting her own property like Alexandra did was taken out. People said that as she was the mother to a future king she would get an official residence etc, but people don't look further ahead, what is then Fred re-married to someone just as popular etc? People would moan then that Fred's ex-wife was getting state support.

Its hard to find a perfect solution when you don't know what the future holds.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

afaik, in the NL P.Margriet does get her expenses paid when she represents, so it's not like she does everything pro-bono.
Don't get me wrong, i think it's quite fair that she does, but if you use the dutch situation as a comparison to the danish one, i think in the end there's not that different: she gets her expenses paid even if it's called differently.

No it is not the same. Princess Mary gets part of her husband's allowance. Princess Máxima got her own allowance established by law: an own independent budget with an A-component (the salary) and a B-component (the functional costs), independently administered by the office of the King's Treasurer and under ministerial accountability. That is really a big difference. No longer the consort depends on the spouse (a lesson learned from several financial miss-steps by consorts).

Every member of the Dutch Royal House 'doing' engagemements in that function gets the expenses re-imbursed. But Princess Laurentien getting her dress for Prinsjesdag paid is really not the same as having an income, of course.

 

[Nordic]

I know its going off topic but its similar to what people have said about the 'pre-nup' of Mary and Fred when the part about her getting her own property like Alexandra did was taken out. People said that as she was the mother to a future king she would get an official residence etc, but people don't look further ahead, what is then Fred re-married to someone just as popular etc? People would moan then that Fred's ex-wife was getting state support.

Its hard to find a perfect solution when you don't know what the future holds.

Yes, but she would still be, as you said, the mother of the future king.

I don't think there's any reason why Joachim should give more money to Alexandra. They've been divorced for 10 years now. Alexandra already got an expensive house from him when they divorced.

 

[tommy100]

I agree re Mary being the mother of a future King but if fred's new wife was just a popular in time there would be some moaning about Mary being given an allowance.

Didn't Count Ingolf get an allowance for life as well?

I don't think there's any easy answer to any of it to be honest.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[...]

Didn't Count Ingolf get an allowance for life as well?

[...]

That was a total different situation. Ingolf's father -Hereditary Prince Knud- was the No 1 in the line of succession. When the Hereditary Prince (at that moment 54 years old and his whole life a full-time royal) lost his position in the line of succession by changing the Constitution, the Danish Government compensated the Hereditary Prince and his successor for the loss of the financial arrangements connected to their positions. After all Prince Knud was destined to be King, his son Prince Ingolf then becoming the Crown Prince.

 

[Muhler]

I agree re Mary being the mother of a future King but if fred's new wife was just a popular in time there would be some moaning about Mary being given an allowance.

Didn't Count Ingolf get an allowance for life as well?

I don't think there's any easy answer to any of it to be honest.

Yes, as a reimbursement for lost status. That was no secret. But he did very little actual work for his apanage.
Oddly enough I rarely heard anyone complain about Ingolf and Knud's apanage. Perhaps because people thought it was fair?

Alexandra was/is also a special case but it has only been since she remarried, became a commoner and hasn't taken a job while still living very comfortably that the debate regarding her apanage has started.
Combined with the articles last year that Alexandra has, shall we say, been less active in several of her protections the pendulum has now swung the other way. In the sense that perhaps Alexandra was the one to blame for the failed marriage, that is certainly an often seen argument for those who wish to strip Alexandra of the apanage. (Personally I believe it takes two to ruin most marriages). That doesn't mean Joachim has become popular in the eyes of the public (and he probably never will), just that the finger of blame has shifted towards Alexandra.
So PR-wise Alexandra would be fighting a losing battle should she insist on receiving her apanage, despite being "advised" to give it up.
It will be very interesting to see what will happen once Felix turns eighteen.

 

[tommy100]

If Count Ingolf was given an allowance for life because he lost his'status' isn't that really just the same as Alexandra loosing her status as Princess? Yes the reasons are different but its the same principle, an allowance to make up for loss in status.

Unless we know exactly what was said behind closed doors to Alexandra after her divorce we can't really judge. Maybe she was asked to keep a low profile or not to take up a business role/job? It certainly seems odd that someone who was regarded as the 'work horse' of the Royal Family at one point was then under fire for not doing enough. Either her work ethic changed rapidly in a few years or there was another reason.

 

[Muhler]

That certainly applied while Alexandra was still unmarried and to an extent still does as she is the mother of two Princes who live in her home.

Count Ingolf is different in the sense that him losing his status was not because of something he had done. He was literally blameless.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I agree. Prince Knud and Prince Ingolf simply lost their status because of a change in the Constitition. The Danish Government wanted to make proper agreements, probably also to 'ease the bitter pill'.

I can imagine that when the Republic of Denmark is established in a peaceful way, the new Danish Government will also make financial arrangements. For an example giving a royal estate in private ownership, together with an agreement for an allowance for the lifetime of former Queen Margrethe and/or former Crown Prince Frederik.

 

[FasterB]

...that when the Republic of Denmark is established in a peaceful way,

Do you know something that we danes do not know? I cannot see Denmark becoming a republic in the near future.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Do you know something that we danes do not know? I cannot see Denmark becoming a republic in the near future.

The third word in the second alinea was: "imagine"...

Merci.

 

[tommy100]

In sure were Denmark to become a republic appropriate allowances would be made to the RF.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In sure were Denmark to become a republic appropriate allowances would be made to the RF.

Indeed, that was my point. Like the Danish Government made appropriate agreements with Hereditary Prince Knud and his son when they lost their position.

 

[ricarda]

Combined with the articles last year that Alexandra has, shall we say, been less active in several of her protections the pendulum has now swung the other way. In the sense that perhaps Alexandra was the one to blame for the failed marriage, that is certainly an often seen argument for those who wish to strip Alexandra of the apanage. (Personally I believe it takes two to ruin most marriages). That doesn't mean Joachim has become popular in the eyes of the public (and he probably never will), just that the finger of blame has shifted towards Alexandra.
So PR-wise Alexandra would be fighting a losing battle should she insist on receiving her apanage, despite being "advised" to give it up.
It will be very interesting to see what will happen once Felix turns eighteen.

I am not sure I agree with you here. Perhaps people thought: Who knows who is to blame?
But revelations like "The Queen asked the government to give Alexandra an apanage" are an indication - for me at least - that it was probably not Alexandra who was to blame.
Really, why should the queen ask the taxpayers to pay for Alexandra if it was she who was to blame?!
I am sorry to say that this whole affair does not reflect well on the queen as well as Joachim and Alexandra.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

They wanted to avoid another Fergie and maybe Alexandra had some potential to write a book on the DRF, and not in a good sense.
Why would the taxpayer pick up the bill for the divorce of Prince Joachim? Are they so poor that he cannot settle it himself? It's ridiculous, really. Even more ridiculous that the arrangement does not turn void once the kids are over 18 or Alexandra gets remarried. It's a joke that she continues to reveice money while already having a new husband.
I guess with Margarethe gone and Frederik on the throne, a lot of questions will be asked. Maybe its the wrong thread, but imo Fred will not be given such an easy ride when it comes to privileges etc for the DRF as it is now.
There is not really transparency in what they do or get/accept and what others get in return. In this regard, they have a lot to learn from the Spanish RF.

 

[Muhler]

I am not sure I agree with you here. Perhaps people thought: Who knows who is to blame?
But revelations like "The Queen asked the government to give Alexandra an apanage" are an indication - for me at least - that it was probably not Alexandra who was to blame.
Really, why should the queen ask the taxpayers to pay for Alexandra if it was she who was to blame?!
I am sorry to say that this whole affair does not reflect well on the queen as well as Joachim and Alexandra.

Yes, I know the public opinion may not understand.

But that's what QMII had to do. She had to send a more or less formal request to the PM. A verbal request wouldn't do. That's not how the system works.

Anyway, she had to come up with some sort of solution. After all Alexandra was still a princess and the mother of Nikolai who at that time would be next in line after Frederik and perhaps Joachim.
She had to find a way to support Alexandra in a manner befitting her station and also to ensure that Alexandra felt she was treated fairly.
Because the risk of Alexandra doing a Fergie must have been in the back of QMII's mind.
So Alexandra got an apanage - and she cannot complain of being treated unfairly, so everybody are happy, except perhaps the odd taxpayers.

ADDED:
Well, I can't say I disagree with you Duke of Marmalade. But then in the glaring light of hindsight and all that...

BT today has more on Alexandra's income. http://www.bt.dk/danmark/du-betaler-alexandra-faar-loenstigning-paa-740.000-kroner

Her apanage is regulated and that means she today receive 740.000 DKK more than she did in 2004.
On top of that she is a mamber of a board in a Swiss medical company, earning an estimated 250.000-500.000 DKK a year. - Plus of course private investsments.
That means she today has a yearly income of at least 2.5 million DKK. - To put it into perspective that's the yearly income of some 8 mailmen.

 

[denice]

I wonder if her husband contributes income. Does he have a job?

 

[Muhler]

I wonder if her husband contributes income. Does he have a job?

That's an interesting question.

He appears to have made some bad investments. However, I can't say if that is countered by sound investments.
He runs a small company but how the economy is, I don't know. It's not my impression that he is over-worked though.
I guess Alexandra makes enough money for both of them to live of.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I think he had a film company that was used by the DRF several times for nice docus not sure it still exists.

 

[royal rob]

Mmmm that doesn't sound very good.
But they all seem to get on and play happy families. The boys look like they like both step parents so may be best to not cause any upset about money


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[Muhler]

Sådan vil kongehuset undgå ny Alexandra-sag: Joachim forgylder prinsesse Marie - Nyheder | www.bt.dk

Gave til 17,25 millioner kroner: Derfor forgylder Joachim prinsesse Marie - Nyheder | www.bt.dk

Sådan fik Joachim råd til milliongave til Marie - Nyheder | www.bt.dk

The big story in the papers today is how it has been reveled that Joachim has quietly handed over half their new house to our Marie.
That means Marie is worth 17.5 million DKK - not counting her own fortune, possible inheritance and private investments.

Commentators argue that the DRF in this was want's to avoid a new Alexandra. I.e. an ex-royal who is subsidised for life by the taxpayers without any obligations in return.
In this way the DRF does not have to pursuade the Parliament to grant Marie an apanage in case of a divorce - with all the bad PR that entails.
In other words: Marie will after a divorce have a handsome fortune to live of enabling her to have a living standard that is equivalent to her present.

There is also a review of Joachim's finances before and after the sale of Schackenborg.
Before the sale of Schackenborg he or rather the estate had a debt of 42 million DKK.
Schackenborg was sold for 100 million.
Of these Joachim paid out the debt and used the 13 million DKK he and Alexandra got as a public wedding present as a down payment so to speak in the newly founded Shcackenborg Foundation.
Detracting other expenses Joachim ended up with a surplus of 45 million DKK.
Of these he has spend 35 million as cash payment for his new home.

But he still has a lot of assets in Southern Jutland.
Land worth some 66 million DKK and real estate worth some 9.9 million DKK.

So if we add all these figures up, Joachim at present has a fortune of up to 10 million DKK
plus real estate and land worth a total of some 75 million DKK.
Not counting inheritance and other private investments.
Marie alone is worth 17.5 million in real easte.
So the couple J&M are worth some 90 million DKK at present.

An online survey in BT reveals that 68 % think it's okay for Joachim to give Marie half the house.
23 % believe she shouldn't get anything in case of a divorce.
9 % don't know.

- I don't think they have to lie sleepless at night from worrying about their finances for the rest of their lives.

 

[Roskilde]

BT really take their time and have their ears out to find "shocking" stories about the DRF this week huh? First the Queen.. then the Crown Prince.. and now Prince Joachim and Princess Marie..

I can't see why it should be a bad thing. Isn't it a quite wise decision with all the criticism about Countess Alexandra getting apanage? Of course Princess Marie must be ensured and this way is a good way to do it.

As the Professor Lars Hovbakke says:
"A Gallup survey last summer showed that Joachim and Princess Marie is the least popular members of the DRF which in other words means there won't be political support to fund Princess Marie with the taxpayers' money if the marriage doesn't hold. Now there is made a system so the DRF themselves has ensured princess Marie. We don't want to be in the same situation as with Alexandra and it's probably also a realization of that the public and political support to also give Princess Marie apanage in case of a divorce isn't present."

The article is probably made to provoke people and yes it is a lot of money we're talking about, but in my eyes it is a good solution.

 

[polyesco]

It only makes sense for Marie to get half. I guess.

and wow, by far i would say that Joachim and Marie are def. the wealthier of the two royal couples.

It would still look kinda weird if Marie didnt get an apandage (in case of a divorce) but ex wife #1 Alexandra still got hers?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It only makes sense for Marie to get half. I guess.

and wow, by far i would say that Joachim and Marie are def. the wealthier of the two royal couples.

It would still look kinda weird if Marie didnt get an apandage (in case of a divorce) but ex wife #1 Alexandra still got hers?

Alexandra should never have received an apanage in the first place. Why should the taxpayers fund an ex-wife of a royal? That is their own problem. Prince Joachim should have used his apanage to fund his ex-wife, as any Dane has to do as well in similar situations

 

[polyesco]

Alexandra should never have received an apanage in the first place. Why should the taxpayers fund an ex-wife of a royal? That is their own problem. Prince Joachim should have used his apanage to fund his ex-wife, as any Dane has to do as well in similar situations

I dunno. it kinda made sense in the beginning. To avoid a Danish Fergie situation and she is the mother of two princes (who at the time, were close to the throne since Frederik did not have kids)
But yes, maybe it should have been taken out from Joachim's appendage..

either way, it was done the way it was...now for the future. I def. think it should be stopped no further then when Felix turns 18. or maybe sooner

 

[tommy100]

I wonder if at the time the allowance was approved they thought Alexandra would carry on in a semi royal role a bit like Diana did for a while with the BRF? Still carrying out vists to charities etc just not officially representing the Queen or Denmark officially. Maybe if that had happened there would be more acceptance of Alexandra receiving an allowance?

 

[ladongas]

But yes, maybe it should have been taken out from Joachim's appendage..

Ouch! Which one?

 

[polyesco]

Ouch! Which one?

lol . sorry. autocorrect fails me sometimes