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  #161  
Old 08-08-2014, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
Reading between the lines, it sounds as if Countess Alexandra was dropped as patron of the DR Girls Choir!
I for one believe that she was! The tabloid BT runs a headline story
today about 'HM dropping a hint' to Radio Denmark. Maybe that's
giving her too much credit but IMO there's no doubt that the DRF
doesn't need any 'shadow royals' , especially now when Prince Joachim
and Princess Marie are likely to step up their royal activities and take
on more patronages. While Alexandra indeed was an asset to our
royal Family, it's time to move on!
I'm not sure that the money comes into the equation! Her annual
grant of two million kroner, it's basically peanuts in
the budget. Besides I'd imagine that it could be revised at a later date,
when the boys are older.
That said: The royal Court is hardly blind to the fact that owning two
luxury holiday homes in Turkey - (two, because she and hubby so far
have been unable to sell the first property they bought there) is not
doing her any favours in the eyes of the general public. Despite the
fact that she is free to use her money and mortgage her house as she
likes !

viv
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  #162  
Old 08-08-2014, 11:20 AM
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I think this organization has over the top expectations of a royal patron(ess). Usually such a royal patronage is a sort of "high approval" of the royal family for a good cause. This sometimes include royal attendance at highdays, such as a jubilee, the opening of a new building or the start of a new initiative.

What I understand is that this organization wanted Countess Alexandra "to take initiatives". That is really not the role of a patron(ess). That is an executive role and should be done by the executive management of the organization, not by the patron(ess).
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  #163  
Old 08-08-2014, 11:15 PM
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Even though Countess Alexandra is the official patron of UNICEF, when it comes to the really high profile events, it is the royal family who are at the forefront. When the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge visited the UNICEF depot in Denmark, it was the CP Couple who accompanied them. Yes, I know that it was an official event and a matter of protocol. But I do remember the Danish press printing the story about Countess Alexandra not being at the event even though she is the patron.
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  #164  
Old 08-09-2014, 01:01 AM
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The royals seem to have varying amounts of involvement in different patronages. Some organizations lend themselves well to a patron really involving him/herself on a deeper level, but others benefit more from the name recognition of simply being associated with a member of the royal family. IMO, it makes sense for Alexandra to continue working with organizations she really feels committed to and cut ties with the rest.

Alexandra is a well connected, wealthy and well educated lady and I think she'd be a great asset for various organizations based on those attributes alone. But she's no longer royal and, quite rightly, her day to day life and interests have changed since the divorce. She's no longer in the position of being able to benefit a group or charity just by attaching her name to it.
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  #165  
Old 08-09-2014, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I think this organization has over the top expectations of a royal patron(ess). Usually such a royal patronage is a sort of "high approval" of the royal family for a good cause. This sometimes include royal attendance at highdays, such as a jubilee, the opening of a new building or the start of a new initiative.

What I understand is that this organization wanted Countess Alexandra "to take initiatives". That is really not the role of a patron(ess). That is an executive role and should be done by the executive management of the organization, not by the patron(ess).
Yes, but the point is Alexandra stopped being a "royal" patroness in 2005/2007 the latest. I for one always thought that the whole situation (Alex keeping some patronages and getting an apanage for this "work") was odd and that there should have been a clean cut.

Perhaps those organisations which agreed to keep Alexandra as their patroness back then (I guess they had a say in it) thought that she would take on a more active role and would have more time and "freedom" once she was no longer a member of the royal family.

Perhaps their expectations just raised after CP Mary started to show that "being a patron" can also involve "taking initiatives".
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  #166  
Old 08-09-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
I for one always thought that the whole situation (Alex keeping some patronages and getting an apanage for
this "work") was odd and that there should have been a clean cut.
The DRF had probably learnt from their British counterparts that axing
a divorced, but popular princess does not go down well with the
population! And maybe they thought that eventually, the fascination
would subside and that Alexandra would retire from her public role!

As for the apanage: I'm not convinced that it was based on her
public duties and patronages. Maybe it was suggested at the time, when it - at least PR-wise! - was a no- brainer, also because Alexandra was to keep her royal privileges etc. until further notice.

No, I'm rather convinced that parking Alexandra on the Civil list had something to do with the finances of Prince Joachim at the time. Schackenborg was never a goldmine as we now know. A substancial alimony would no doubt have strained his personal means!


viv
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  #167  
Old 08-09-2014, 01:37 PM
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I doubt it is a coincidence that this issue with Countess Alexandra is happening when Prince Joachim is moving to Copenhagen and the Crown Prince family is getting lots of coverage for their Greenland tour. Queen M. is a great strategist when it comes to the royal PR machine.
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  #168  
Old 08-09-2014, 01:44 PM
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I think Ricarda has nailed the issue.

The tabloid BT has had a number of articles about Alexandra's protections over the past couple of days.
Her er Alexandra protektor på deltid: Fire år siden sidste besøg - Royale | www.bt.dk
Ekspert: Ydmygende fyring af Alexandra - Royale | www.bt.dk
Ekspert: Dronningen er i gang med at afvikle Alexandra - Royale | www.bt.dk
Færdig som protektor for DRs pigekor: Her vil de også af med Alexandra - Royale | www.bt.dk

The articles take a somewhat sensationalist angle and gist of the articles are that Alexandra was sacked as patron.
Is less than desired as patron of at least one more protection.
That she apart for a couple of exceptions is not an active patron for her protections.
That QMII is quietly working on pushing her out.
That she is hardly an asset as a patron anymore as she is moving further and further away from the DRF.
The Trine Villemann (whom I can't understand anyone would like to quote on anything) claims that it's basically a conspiracy by the DRF to out Alexandra completely, not least since the relationship between Alexandra and QMII is frosty. - I must say it's not exactly that impression I personally have. Friendly, polite, curteous, mature, yes. But not frosty.

- So let's look at the facts as we have them.

Alexandra is no longer patron for DR1 Girl's Choir. - For whatever and so far unknown reason.
The Danish Association for the Blind is openly disappointed with her.
UNICEF is very pleased with her.
The other protections claim they are pleased with her, even though there are examples of her not attending anything for several years. So they might tell the truth or just being polite.

The idea that Alexandra might be in the process of quietly laying down a number of her protections does not seem to have occured to anyone writing the articles.
Nor is the idea that Alexandra might be well aware herself of the fact that she no longer carry the same weight PR-wise as before.
Also, since there hadn't been a divorce in the DRF for 150 years prior the Alexandra and Joachim, there really isn't any precedence in DK in this regard, so this may be what must be considered "a natural developement" and that is what we are wittnessing now.

Should Alexandra in the glare of hindsight have laid down most, if not all, her protections several years ago? Probably a good idea IMO, but basically it's up to Alexandra herself and her protections - not the DRF, not the press, not the public opinion and certainly not more or less self-proclaimed royal experts.

It's easy to critisize Alexandra and perhaps with some justification, but fair is fair, let's try and give her the benefit of doubt before jumping to conclusions.
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  #169  
Old 08-09-2014, 03:06 PM
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I've said it before and i'll say it again, I feel quite sorry for Alexandra. At the time it was felt giving her an allowance and letting her keep her charity links etc was the best thing to do (alot said much better than what happened to Diana POW for example). However now people have moved on and its Alexandra who gets the raw end of the deal (though she's not got a hard life so I'm not that sympathetic).
I have to say from what I read about her before the divorce and how hard she worked for the RF I thought she would keep up quite a fair few number of engagements in support of her charities and I have to say she does seem to be doing less and less (in public at least).
I do wonder though - she has an allowance but does she have to use this to pay for any charity visits she does? I know it doesn't seem a lot but if she has to use her allowance to pay from transport, staff to organise a program of events etc it does all add up and if the Court is no longer there picking up the bill and providing transport etc then it actually costs her to do visits so she might wonder why the heck she should.

I'm quite shocked how openly the Danish Association for the Blind are in criticising her and comparing her to Mary - I think its quite rude to do that to someone who has (to what ever level) been a supporter for a number of years. Even if they want her out they should at least have the grace and manners to do it behind closed doors and only say the usual bland "mutual decision" thing in public especially as it only adds to the media reports on her at the moment over her allowance etc.
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  #170  
Old 08-09-2014, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I've said it before and i'll say it again, I feel quite sorry for Alexandra. At the time it was felt giving her an allowance and letting her keep her charity links etc was the best thing to do (alot said much better than what happened to Diana POW for example). However now people have moved on and its Alexandra who gets the raw end of the deal (though she's not got a hard life so I'm not that sympathetic).
I have to say from what I read about her before the divorce and how hard she worked for the RF I thought she would keep up quite a fair few number of engagements in support of her charities and I have to say she does seem to be doing less and less (in public at least).
I do wonder though - she has an allowance but does she have to use this to pay for any charity visits she does? I know it doesn't seem a lot but if she has to use her allowance to pay from transport, staff to organise a program of events etc it does all add up and if the Court is no longer there picking up the bill and providing transport etc then it actually costs her to do visits so she might wonder why the heck she should.

I'm quite shocked how openly the Danish Association for the Blind are in criticising her and comparing her to Mary - I think its quite rude to do that to someone who has (to what ever level) been a supporter for a number of years. Even if they want her out they should at least have the grace and manners to do it behind closed doors and only say the usual bland "mutual decision" thing in public especially as it only adds to the media reports on her at the moment over her allowance etc.
I think the comparison to Mary indicates that particular organization, at least, may have unrealistic expectations of what a royal patronage means. My impression,in terms of the Danish royals and the attention and high profile they can bring to their patronages, is that there's Mary and then there's everyone else. I really doubt the actual issue with the people complaining is Alexandra's lack of personal, day to day involvement with the organization, but rather the loss of exposure and publicity she can bring, compared to when she took the patronage on as a princess.
It seems like kind of a short sighted criticism, considering that the alternative for these groups is probably no royal involvement at all.
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  #171  
Old 08-09-2014, 04:05 PM
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Although I may be slightly biased saying this as I really like Alexandra – I also think we need to take into consideration that she can't go out and shine as she did before she and Joachim divorced. She obviously is – and has always been – very careful to not "steal" Marie's thunder, so to speak. It's difficult because this is a sort of first case scenario, but I think Alexandra has managed quite well.

I think DR's Girl's Choir and The Danish Association for the Blind are the ones coming off really bad here. I see absolutely no reason why DR's Girl's Choir dropped Alexandra as their patron – IIRC I have seen pictures of her attending their Christmas concert every year. The Danish Association for the Blind are just being downright ungrateful. I am sure most patronages would want the most widespread member of the royal family to be their patron, but that's just not how things work.
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  #172  
Old 08-09-2014, 04:44 PM
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I have a question, since I am not Danish. The DR Danish Girls Choir and the Danish Association of the Blind in particular...did these organizations always have royal patrons? Did Alexandra take over as patron for these organizations from Queen Margrethe or Queen Ingrid? Maybe these organizations feel that they would be better off with a patron who is a member of the DRF and in so doing, will get more exposure than they do now with a divorced ex-princess?

As for Alexandra trying not to steal Marie's thunder. I really don't think that was an issue IMO. Alexandra had re-married and was no longer a member of the DRF. Marie became a princess and a member of the DRF. As time went by and Marie established herself, she was always going to attract more attention than Alexandra as she was a princess. Like it or not, being a member of the DRF is what gives these patronages the publicity and exposure they desire. Countess Alexandra can no longer provide that and it will only get worse as time goes by. In addition, the media attention is more and more on the Crown Princely Family, not Joachim and his family as much...so how much media attention can Alexandra attract to her patronages given those circumstances?
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  #173  
Old 08-09-2014, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think the comparison to Mary indicates that particular organization, at least, may have unrealistic expectations of what a royal patronage means. My impression,in terms of the Danish royals and the attention and high profile they can bring to their patronages, is that there's Mary and then there's everyone else. I really doubt the actual issue with the people complaining is Alexandra's lack of personal, day to day involvement with the organization, but rather the loss of exposure and publicity she can bring, compared to when she took the patronage on as a princess.
It seems like kind of a short sighted criticism, considering that the alternative for these groups is probably no royal involvement at all.
Well exactly! If Alexandra 'leaves' being patron of the Danish Society for Blind I'd like to think no one else in the RF would be undignified enough to jump in and replace her. So they need to either either shut up and put up or find a new, non-royal, patron.

Personally I feel she is in an impossible situation, she has an allowance from the State, apparently for life (that's another debate!) but is no longer a member of the RF and also, to an extent, can't be seen to upstage or outshine the RF. As i've said before, she in a 'no man's land' as such, not an ordinary citizen free to get her own job and do as she pleases but not a member of the RF with the support from the Royal Court and the workload that it brings.
I think on reflection she should not have been given an allowance - maybe a one off payment or just leave Joachim to sort it out like any other couple - and been allowed to get her own job (she had the skills and the CV to be able to find something meaningful and fulfilling). She still could have been given her title and just been left to be a well titled, well connected private citizen.
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  #174  
Old 08-09-2014, 04:53 PM
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Didn't CP Mary take over one of Alexandra's patronages?

EDIT: Found it! Post #30 by UserDane
Crown Princess Mary's Patronages and Charities

Quote:
According to TV2 news (TV 2 Nyhederne - Mary afløser Alex i Mødrehjælpen), Mary has taken on a new patronage - for 'Mødrehjælpen' which used to be one of countess Alexandra's patronages but which she gave up when she married Martin Jørgensen.
This was in 2007 that CP Mary took over as patron 7 months after Alexandra gave it up...so there is a precedent of a member of the DRF taking over one of Countess Alexandra's patronages. Given that the DR Girls Choir performs at so many royal events at the DR Theatre, I would be surprised if a new royal patron is not named...not now obviously...some months will elapse until a new patron is named IMO and it will not be viewed as controversial if enough time has passed.
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  #175  
Old 08-09-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
I have a question, since I am not Danish. The DR Danish Girls Choir and the Danish Association of the Blind in particular...did these organizations always have royal patrons? Did Alexandra take over as patron for these organizations from Queen Margrethe or Queen Ingrid? Maybe these organizations feel that they would be better off with a patron who is a member of the DRF and in so doing, will get more exposure than they do now with a divorced ex-princess?

As for Alexandra trying not to steal Marie's thunder. I really don't think that was an issue IMO. Alexandra had re-married and was no longer a member of the DRF. Marie became a princess and a member of the DRF. As time went by and Marie established herself, she was always going to attract more attention than Alexandra as she was a princess. Like it or not, being a member of the DRF is what gives these patronages the publicity and exposure they desire. Countess Alexandra can no longer provide that and it will only get worse as time goes by. In addition, the media attention is more and more on the Crown Princely Family, not Joachim and his family as much...so how much media attention can Alexandra attract to her patronages given those circumstances?
I've just had a look at the Danish Association of the Blind website (using google translate so it might not be perfect) and could see no mention of Alexandra on the website until I searched for her name and then a few news articles about events she attended, so its not as if they are pushing her to the front and using her name as much as they could anyway. To get to the website I went through a few other websites of charities, one of which Mary is patron (and has a photo on the front page) and one of which Princess Benedikte is patron and again has a photo very prominently displayed.
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  #176  
Old 08-09-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I've just had a look at the Danish Association of the Blind website (using google translate so it might not be perfect) and could see no mention of Alexandra on the website until I searched for her name and then a few news articles about events she attended, so its not as if they are pushing her to the front and using her name as much as they could anyway. To get to the website I went through a few other websites of charities, one of which Mary is patron (and has a photo on the front page) and one of which Princess Benedikte is patron and again has a photo very prominently displayed.
There have actually been quite a number of well published events in connection with the Association which she has attended over the years. Alone or with Martin Jørgensen.
So they have gotten publicity.

- It may also be a personal matter. In the sense that there some people with whom you don't "click".
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  #177  
Old 08-09-2014, 05:30 PM
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Yes, I do remember that the blind association did get some publicity.

I agree with you Muhler that it may be more of a personal issue. Just look at these comments by John Heilbrunn, second chairman of the Danish Association for the Blind which was in one of your previous posts:
Quote:
"We have been annoyed over not being able to use her more, but over time we have realized that she is not someone you can pull aside and talk to. She's difficult to get a hold on and once you do reach her, it's not that she's immediately ready to jump in".
These are very personal comments and are a complete contrast to the past view of Alexandra as a great patron for her charities!! And it is interesting that Mr Heilbrunn was so willing to share such negative comments with the media.
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  #178  
Old 08-09-2014, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
Didn't CP Mary take over one of Alexandra's patronages?

EDIT: Found it! Post #30 by UserDane
Crown Princess Mary's Patronages and Charities

This was in 2007 that CP Mary took over as patron 7 months after Alexandra gave it up...so there is a precedent of a member of the DRF taking over one of Countess Alexandra's patronages. Given that the DR Girls Choir performs at so many royal events at the DR Theatre, I would be surprised if a new royal patron is not named...not now obviously...some months will elapse until a new patron is named IMO and it will not be viewed as controversial if enough time has passed.
True, didn't realize it had happened before and Alexandra may have given up the girls Choir knowing another royal was going to take it on. however the more the media make a fuss the harder it will be (or the longer they will have to wait) for another royal to take her place.
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  #179  
Old 08-09-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I do wonder though - she has an
allowance but does she have to use this to pay for any charity visits
she does? I know it doesn't seem a lot but if she has to use her
allowance to pay from transport, staff to organise a program of
events etc it does all add up and if the Court is no longer there
picking up the bill and providing transport etc then it actually
costs her to do visits so she might wonder why the heck she should. .
I'm guessing now: I doubt that the DRF is picking up her bills for
the simple reason that she is not representing the royal family any
more. An example: There's been photos of her arriving at events in
rental cars!

At the end of the day: we know that after the divorce the DRF let
her continue a number of patronages, they allowed her to keep her
princess title - albeit stripped of the HRH - until she remarried, and
they gave her a -quaint? - comital title for life. It was indeed a
softly-softly approach!

What we don't know is whether the royal Court and Alexandra made
any agreements as to her withdrawing gradually from public life.

I am among the Danes believing that her situation is untenable in the
long run! I'll gladly contribute to her upkeep, but IMO time has come
for her to stop competing - for the want of a better word - with our royal family.

By the way, the girls choir is not the first patronage she's lost. The
art museum Arken was removed from her list of patronages a long
time ago!

viv
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  #180  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
I'm guessing now: I doubt that the DRF is picking up her bills for
the simple reason that she is not representing the royal family any
more. An example: There's been photos of her arriving at events in
rental cars!

At the end of the day: we know that after the divorce the DRF let
her continue a number of patronages, they allowed her to keep her
princess title - albeit stripped of the HRH - until she remarried, and
they gave her a -quaint? - comital title for life. It was indeed a
softly-softly approach!

What we don't know is whether the royal Court and Alexandra made
any agreements as to her withdrawing gradually from public life.

I am among the Danes believing that her situation is untenable in the
long run! I'll gladly contribute to her upkeep, but IMO time has come
for her to stop competing - for the want of a better word - with our royal family.

By the way, the girls choir is not the first patronage she's lost. The
art museum Arken was removed from her list of patronages a long
time ago!

viv
Is Countess Alexandra the only "non-royal" that is a patron of organizations?
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