Crown Prince Philippe and Crown Princess Mathilde: Current Events Jun 2005-Aug 2005

[Sancia]

OK, as long as no-one gets overheated (wich would be a pitty) there's no problem for me either.

And I didn't call the discussion 'rubbish' but the things Danielane foresaw for the future of a 3-year and 1,5-year old.

I never said Elisabeth and Gabriel would have problems further. It just happens that I know a family whose children gave the impression of "little perfect kid" when they were young. Noone understood why the girl had problems when she was a teenager.

 

[Hannelore]

And because you know a family you compare them to a family you don't know?

 

[Hannelore]

Thanks Alexandria!
Hannelore, I'd like just to react to "decent family": I have the pretention to say I come from a decent family, but I've never been dressed like this. I think there are many ways to dress a children. In France, in my background, when parents dress a girl like Elisabeth yesterday, it has a certain meaning.

France isn't Belgium. At all.

 

[Marie-Caroline]

I would like to add to this interesting discussion. I do agree with Catherine and would like to add the following. In my humble opinion, I find that Princess Mathilde has what many women would like to have but only very little women really have and this is what I would call 'natural class'. I think she has this mostly thanks to her personality and partly because of her noble upbringing. And I think that this is something that 'shines' through whether she wears an evening dress or a casual outfit, whether she has an official engagement or whether she is in more informal setting.

 

[Sancia]

And because you know a family you compare them to a family you don't know?

No. I was just saying it can't be dangerous to "close" someone in an 'image' (I don't know how to explain it very precisely). I don't say Elisabeth and Gabriel will later be prisoners of the image they give now, I just say it can happen. For everyone. And that one must be careful. And having experienced it myself, I can say how it's for the people concerned.

 

[Sancia]

France isn't Belgium. At all.

Both countries have lot of things in common. Last time I went in Brussels, I thought by moments I was still in France. I agree that Belgium has its own particularities, although.

By the way, would you please stop being rude on me? I do respect your opinion, please do the same towards me. We can still discuss, but in respect.

 

[Hannelore]

But they aren't given an image, you're giving them one by painting a picture that isn't true.

They are raised in a normal way (Elisabeth doesn't even go to one of the posh schools in Belgium) and dressed in a normal way (I reassure you this ), their parents love them but when they're bad they get punished - like all children.

I think I get what you mean: parents with children acting as though they're living a dream and their whole life is wonderful, they never argue and nothing will ever go wrong and their children are the perfect children. unfortunately such people exist , but it aren't Filip & Mathilde.

 

[Hannelore]

Both countries have lot of things in common. Last time I went in Brussels, I thought by moments I was still in France. I agree that Belgium has its own particularities, although.

By the way, would you please stop being rude on me? I do respect your opinion, please do the same towards me. We can still discuss, but in respect.

I'm not being rude. I find it rude to have to hear that Belgium is a derivation of France with its own particularities. Belgium is more than Brussels. And very different from France.

 

[Sancia]

I'm not being rude. I find it rude to have to hear that Belgium is a derivation of France with its own particularities. Belgium is more than Brussels. And very different from France.

I never said Belgium was a derivation of France, just that sometimes in Brussels I had the impression to be in Paris. I loved this country when I went in last year, and I probably will go back.

 

[Emily]

Danielane I think you raise some good issues to think about and you have made me reflect on my postings. What comes through for me about Mathilde was written by Marie-Caroline, there is a natural class -- an ability to behave genuinely and appropriately in a variety of situations -- that I find appealing. Of course my judgment is incomplete because I only see her from photos and news videos, but that natural class has come through enough, that my guess is she really does have it. As far as her children and their upbringing, who knows? I recall Phillipe's statement at the time of Elisabeth's birth: "I hope she is a great queen but first of all I hope she is a great woman". To me that signaled something important about his/?their understanding of where the focus of her upbringing needed to be...on the person, not the title she would inherit. I also appreciate the fact that while Elisabeth was dressed in a lovely, summery way for the photo shoot, she was allowed to skip around and then lie down on that bench and no one made a move to stop her -- that I think is a good sign. Dressing appropriately for photo shoots is one thing but allowing children to be children (within certain limits, of course) is, in my mind, the more important thing. So in summary, I appreciate the issues you raised and if my posts have seemed to elevate Mathilde to "saint" status they were misleading. I do appreciate the "natural class" she brings to many situations and the support she obviously offers to Phillipe, her family, and to many good causes. I suppose time will tell us even more about her.

 

[Sancia]

But they aren't given an image, you're giving them one by painting a picture that isn't true.

They are raised in a normal way (Elisabeth doesn't even go to one of the posh schools in Belgium) and dressed in a normal way (I reassure you this ), their parents love them but when they're bad they get punished - like all children.

I think I get what you mean: parents with children acting as though they're living a dream and their whole life is wonderful, they never argue and nothing will ever go wrong and their children are the perfect children. unfortunately such people exist , but it aren't Filip & Mathilde.

I just said that was my impression. In a monarchy, the royal family is seen by her subjects and by many watchers, who can have their own impression about her. And these impressions can be many and varied.

And I'm pretty sure Elisabeth and Gabriel are raised in a normal way, as I'm certain their parents love them and will love the baby to come.

 

[Sancia]

Danielane I think you raise some good issues to think about and you have made me reflect on my postings. What comes through for me about Mathilde was written by Marie-Caroline, there is a natural class -- an ability to behave genuinely and appropriately in a variety of situations -- that I find appealing. Of course my judgment is incomplete because I only see her from photos and news videos, but that natural class has come through enough, that my guess is she really does have it. As far as her children and their upbringing, who knows? I recall Phillipe's statement at the time of Elisabeth's birth: "I hope she is a great queen but first of all I hope she is a great woman". To me that signaled something important about his/?their understanding of where the focus of her upbringing needed to be...on the person, not the title she would inherit. I also appreciate the fact that while Elisabeth was dressed in a lovely, summery way for the photo shoot, she was allowed to skip around and then lie down on that bench and no one made a move to stop her -- that I think is a good sign. Dressing appropriately for photo shoots is one thing but allowing children to be children (within certain limits, of course) is, in my mind, the more important thing. So in summary, I appreciate the issues you raised and if my posts have seemed to elevate Mathilde to "saint" status they were misleading. I do appreciate the "natural class" she brings to many situations and the support she obviously offers to Phillipe, her family, and to many good causes. I suppose time will tell us even more about her.

Thanks for your post. I agree with you, even if I would have loved seeign Elisabeth dress more "casual". But she was so nice on this photo session. She's really a cute girl.
About the good causes, I could be cynic and say that members of a royal family are forced to have "charities", but I must say Mathilde is very convincing in it (what is/was for me a part of the perfect-side). And I agree with many of them.

 

[Emily]

....yes she might be "forced", or at least nudged, in the direction of certain charities -- but then aren't we all, at times, asked to do something our hearts aren't really in and we have to put a good face on it and get on with the job? I think that is just a part of life. The trouble comes when we are consistently asked to be something we are not. I don't think most of us can sustain that kind of falseness for long without personal repercussions. Again, I don't see evidence that this is Mathilde's situation but time will tell.

 

[Sancia]

....yes she might be "forced", or at least nudged, in the direction of certain charities -- but then aren't we all, at times, asked to do something our hearts aren't really in and we have to put a good face on it and get on with the job? I think that is just a part of life. The trouble comes when we are consistently asked to be something we are not. I don't think most of us can sustain that kind of falseness for long without personal repercussions. Again, I don't see evidence that this is Mathilde's situation but time will tell.

I agree with you: Mathilde is not forced to do what she's doing. That was not my point.

 

[Snoepy]

no, but she is a little conceited,but so am i

 

[Cathérine Bergeyck]

....yes she might be "forced", or at least nudged, in the direction of certain charities -- but then aren't we all, at times, asked to do something our hearts aren't really in and we have to put a good face on it and get on with the job? I think that is just a part of life. The trouble comes when we are consistently asked to be something we are not. I don't think most of us can sustain that kind of falseness for long without personal repercussions. Again, I don't see evidence that this is Mathilde's situation but time will tell.

The things she's involves in now were often already part of her life before her marriage. She already did charity before she met Philippe, as a girl from an aristocratic family she was certainly raised with an awareness of "noblesse oblige".

Everybody's free to ask questions but I think it's a little ironic we now all have to defend a person who's never been accused of being fake or trying to show off. As a Belgian I find this a bit strange, my royal family is a humble one and a very sincere one too. Maybe you (Danielane) should better get your information elsewhere than from this board...?

As for how she dresses her children, in a very good way I should think. Like many parents do. In my job I often see people who are only interested in money and showing how much they have of it. You should see the way they dress their children,.... Elisabeth and Gabriel look perfectly normal and beautiful. May I remind you that these people are royal and that when there's a celebration people come especially for them and to see them, the least respective thing you can do is to look nice.

 

[selminha]

Catherine, where they go to pass the vacations of Summer Filip and Mathilde?

 

[Cathérine Bergeyck]

Catherine, where they go to pass the vacations of Summer Filip and Mathilde?

I have no idea.... I'm not sure they will go abroad since Mathilde is 6-7 months pregnant.

They don't really have a spot they always return to, although they do often go to France. Other years they've also been on holiday with their cousins from Luxemburg, archduke Simeon and archduchess Maria of Austria, Victoria de Bourbon Parma and other friends.

We'll have to wait and see if there are any pictures ...

The Belgian RF has got 3 castles in Belgium (in Ciergnon, Fenffe and Villers) where they could also be going (they're often used in the weekends). And Laeken is big anough to have a holiday as well, lots of room in the park to go camping

 

[selminha]

Thank you Catherine.

 

[Sancia]

The things she's involves in now were often already part of her life before her marriage. She already did charity before she met Philippe, as a girl from an aristocratic family she was certainly raised with an awareness of "noblesse oblige".

Do you know which charity she did?

Everybody's free to ask questions but I think it's a little ironic we now all have to defend a person who's never been accused of being fake or trying to show off. As a Belgian I find this a bit strange, my royal family is a humble one and a very sincere one too. Maybe you (Danielane) should better get your information elsewhere than from this board...?

That's funny, Cathérine, because the reason why I raised all these point goes from what I felt after reading other forums. By the way, I never accused Mathilde, I said only that I have the impression she was giving an image of perfect woman, which is not to show off (one can giving the impression of perfection and be humble). But I agree about the royal family, she looks very humble to me.

As for how she dresses her children, in a very good way I should think. Like many parents do. In my job I often see people who are only interested in money and showing how much they have of it. You should see the way they dress their children,.... Elisabeth and Gabriel look perfectly normal and beautiful. May I remind you that these people are royal and that when there's a celebration people come especially for them and to see them, the least respective thing you can do is to look nice.

Did I say she dresses her children bad? It just that I was used to a certain meaning of a certain kind of clothes, like the pink dress for "perfect little girl". Once more, that was how I felt it. Elisabeth looked very nice, by the way, on the last photos. I'm sure she could be nice in other color of dress. The point is I'm thinking you can dress your little girl very nice not necessarily in white or pink. Just my opinion.

 

[Cathérine Bergeyck]

Do you know which charity she did?

She accompanied sick and handicapped people on pilgrimage to Lourdes various times. She was also often at charity events of the Belgian aristocracy.

 

[Sancia]

Do you know which charity she did?

She accompanied sick and handicapped people on pilgrimage to Lourdes various times. She was also often at charity events of the Belgian aristocracy.

Thank you.
Well, that will make a common point between France and Belgium: lot of members of "good families" and noblesse/aristocracy are accompaning sick and handicapped people in Lourdes (that's not a criticism, just a fact). I'd like do it some day (although not being form good or noble family).

 

[Hannelore]

why this frustration ("not being from a good or noble family")? It isn't because you're not part of something that you have to look down on it?

As Cathérine said, Mathilde did more than accompanying handicapped people, but it wasn't in the papers of course, if you do charity without being known or famous (which was the case at the time) it's a discrete thing, in the hope you can help others with your small contribution.

 

[Hannelore]

I never said Belgium was a derivation of France, just that sometimes in Brussels I had the impression to be in Paris. I loved this country when I went in last year, and I probably will go back.

You've been in Brussels a few times, have you ever been to Flanders (it's different from Brussels!), do you speak Dutch? Have you ever been to wallonia ?

You won't have the impression of being in Paris.

 

[Sancia]

why this frustration ("not being from a good or noble family")? It isn't because you're not part of something that you have to look down on it?

As Cathérine said, Mathilde did more than accompanying handicapped people, but it wasn't in the papers of course, if you do charity without being known or famous (which was the case at the time) it's a discrete thing, in the hope you can help others with your small contribution.

Ah non, not a frustation, and I'm certainly not looking down on it. You misunderstood me.

And for the charity, I entirely agree. It's a private matter, one doesn't to make know that he's that generous.

 

[Sancia]

You've been in Brussels a few times, have you ever been to Flanders (it's different from Brussels!), do you speak Dutch? Have you ever been to wallonia ?

You won't have the impression of being in Paris.

Yes I went in Flanders last year! Such a pity it was so a short travel. I'd like very much to go back in towns like Antwerpen, Gent, Brugge... I'm currently learning Dutch, because I'm very interest in Flemish and Dutch culture an language.

I know it's very different from Brussels. That's why I only spoke of Brussels. But I'm very interested in Dutch and Flemish civilization.

 

[Mette2]

Danielane you are entitled to your opinion - no arguments from me. If we all shared the same opinion that would be boring. Although I don't really agree with you I admire you for sharing your thoughts, which are thoughts pretty much the opposite from what so many others think.
However,...

I know that lot of you will react to what I'm about to say, but I find it exaggerate to speak of Mathilde like a saint on earth, a sort of new Sancta Gracia. As for myself, I don't like the image of "perfect princess" she tries to give us; I prefer princesses who are making little errors, who are some times more hesitant. And I don't like very much hear someone speaking of '"always perfect princess Mathilde".
My point is: princesses and princes are human like us, no human is perfect, even not Mathilde. You'll say I don't like Mathilde. No, I don't like her very much because of this image of "I'm perfect and I show it", which bothers me.
By the way, look at the way she dresses her children: nice, yes, but as perfect little children. Is it good for children to be shown by their parents like little perfect one? I don't think so. When they will be teenager, when they will have difficulties in the life, one will say "ah, but they were so perfect kids"...

I don't think she thinks of herself as perfect, or that that's the image she wants to show people. As so many have already said I think she comes across as very humble, down-to-earth, natural, sweet, loving, caring, etc.,etc... (Mathilde is my absolute favorite so I could go on and on). I think she takes great joy in representing the royal family and never seems to be putting on an act or faking it, because a lot of the visits she makes to different places in Belgium and abroad are something that's very close to her heart. Like with this visit to the international day of the old people:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44253
When I saw it the first time I thought: "Wow, she's so caring, warm-hearted, sincere, and really committed to the visits she makes - what a wonderful person". Yes, I know it's just a picture, and not being Belgian, pictures are pretty much all I can base my opinion on. But I also base my opinion on what the Belgians on this forum tell us from articles or from tv that they've read or seen of her. Also from the few videoclips I've seen of her. That's why I think she in person is like the image I have of her. I don't think she's perfect, because no one is, but she's very elegant and classy, which might make it seem like she could never set a foot wrong. A thing that should be considered is that she's not one of the new princesses. She and Philippe have been married for more than 5 1/2 years, so she's had time to adjust in her role, which is why she's not hesitant or making errors. Cathérine or Hannelore posted a while ago that in the beginning of her marriage she was nervous and that Philippe was very protective of her. That shows that she's not perfect, but that's she's gotten more confident over time.
As for the way the children are dressed: did you ever think that it might be Philippe who dresses the children? Just kidding. I don't think there's anything wrong with the way they're dressed. As others have said you dress to fit the occasion, so if you're going somewhere special or doing something special there's nothing wrong with putting on pretty clothes. I myself put on some nice clothes for the first day of school when I was growing up - nothing fancy, but still something nice. I still put on nice clothes when I go somewhere special, or even if I go to a restaurant for dinner (it doesn't happen that often, so I guess you could call it a special occasion). The thing is that first impressions often come from the clothes we wear, and often people form an opinion/an image of us based on the clothes we wear. So I don't see anything wrong with dressing nice. I have a friend who has long hair and only wears black clothes. People who don't know him might think he's dangerous, but he's the nicest person you could ever know, and he could never hurt a fly. However, I think Elisabeth and Gabriel wear very normal clothes, and that Philippe and Mathilde don't dress out of the ordinary for royals when they visits places in Belgium or abroad (I'm not talking about gala nights and occasions like that, because of course they dress differently at those occasions).

Oh well, that's just my opinion. I mean absolutely no offense to anyone.

 

[Mette2]

Well, according to TV5 Europe's teletext there will be another program (Cote Cour) on Friday at 3.29 p.m. - 2.29 p.m. in London - and I doubt they'll show the same program as last week since they just re-ran that one. As far as I remember at the end of the crawling title it said 2005 or was it 2004? No, I'm pretty sure it was 2005. I'll certainly watch the program, and I'll let you know about the year at the end. Unless of course you're able to watch the program yourself. But the part with Philippe flying his helicopter was from 2002, so maybe that's from the documentary. Also Kinga was quite big so I doubt the program is that old.

I saw the program today and it's from 2005. There was a segment on protocol with images from this year's New Year reception for the government. That segment also included a lot of old videoclips, some in black and white. There was also a segment from when Albert and Paola officially opened the 175-25 festivities on February 17th. The man hosting the program is called Thomas Van Hamme - unfortunately he didn't have Kinga with him, but it was still hosted from Philippe and Mathilde's home - from the greenhouse.
I think it's a great program, because there's also a lot of old videoclips. Well, of course it's only the second time I saw it, but so far I like it very much and will continue to watch it. That is, if it's on next week.

 

[Sancia]

I saw the program today and it's from 2005. There was a segment on protocol with images from this year's New Year reception for the government. That segment also included a lot of old videoclips, some in black and white. There was also a segment from when Albert and Paola officially opened the 175-25 festivities on February 17th. The man hosting the program is called Thomas Van Hamme - unfortunately he didn't have Kinga with him, but it was still hosted from Philippe and Mathilde's home - from the greenhouse.
I think it's a great program, because there's also a lot of old videoclips. Well, of course it's only the second time I saw it, but so far I like it very much and will continue to watch it. That is, if it's on next week.

Is that the programm whose some parts could be seen on Internet?

 

[Mette2]

Is that the programm whose some parts could be seen on Internet?

I don't know, but I don't think so. There are some times videos from a program called De Rode Loper. Other videos are sometimes taken from the news (I think). The program Côté Cour is shown on a French channel called TV5 Europe - don't know if that helps.