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  #161  
Old 09-25-2007, 02:44 PM
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Forgive my ignorance, how excatly has she offended the french prime minister.....I didn't catch that bit...I hope someone can explain.
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  #162  
Old 09-25-2007, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tammy81 View Post
Forgive my ignorance, how excatly has she offended the french prime minister.....I didn't catch that bit...I hope someone can explain.
I think the incident may be documented on another of the threads here so you might want to check for the exact facts on the situation but in a nut shell she offended the Prime Minister at the world rugby match with France vs Argentina. She was sitting with Albert along with other French dignitaries and started applauding and routing for the Argentina team and then added insult to injury by telling the PM she would stop routing for Argentina when France started playing well. She went on to say that her grandfather was a coach for the SA team but we have not found anything as yet to document that as true. She did have a boyfriend who was a rugby player though. Anyway I suggest you read it straight from the news article. Again I'm sure it's on one of these threads. It was very ungracious and undiplomatic for someone who hopes to become a princess one day. It should have been very embarrasing to Prince Albert.
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  #163  
Old 09-25-2007, 04:20 PM
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Hibou, didn't she say when France starts to play? Or are the finer (and nastier) points lost in the translation?
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  #164  
Old 09-25-2007, 06:07 PM
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Until she becomes engaged to Albert, she's under no obligation to restrict herself to princess-to-be behaviour. And if he wants to be seen in public with someone who's a private citizen and not representing anything other than herself, that's his choice. I don't think it reflects very well on him, but I don't see a problem where she's concerned. She hasn't labelled herself "princess to be"; other people have done it for her and then blamed her for not behaving according to that label which she didn't choose in the first place.
  #165  
Old 09-25-2007, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Until she becomes engaged to Albert, she's under no obligation to restrict herself to princess-to-be behaviour. And if he wants to be seen in public with someone who's a private citizen and not representing anything other than herself, that's his choice. I don't think it reflects very well on him, but I don't see a problem where she's concerned. She hasn't labelled herself "princess to be"; other people have done it for her and then blamed her for not behaving according to that label which she didn't choose in the first place.
I agree it reflects on Albert but even if we remove the princess to be title, it was rude behavior when you are a guest which they apparently were. Also I think if you are not only Albert's guest but thus also a guest of the French dignitaries, one should be more polite to ones hosts. I do think it speaks volumes about Albert for taking her in the first place but to insult a head of state regardless of whether one is a princess to be or not shows no manners. JMO
  #166  
Old 09-25-2007, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Until she becomes engaged to Albert, she's under no obligation to restrict herself to princess-to-be behaviour. And if he wants to be seen in public with someone who's a private citizen and not representing anything other than herself, that's his choice. I don't think it reflects very well on him, but I don't see a problem where she's concerned. She hasn't labelled herself "princess to be"; other people have done it for her and then blamed her for not behaving according to that label which she didn't choose in the first place.
It is true that she did not herself give the label 'princess-to-be'.

But she should know by now that there is certain power in associations. She has also been behaving as if she wants to be princess, if by nothing more than power of association from her own words and deeds. At one point she even said that she could not talk about her relationship with Albert because of royal protocols. I would also guess that she would have expected some kind of media response to her ahead of time - surely she would have understood the press reaction at seeing her lying all over Albert in Turin and later at the Grand Prix and the Maldives and so forth? For example: HELLO!

She is the one who placed herself squarely in the public glare, so she should know all this by now. I'm sure she has no problem when some compare her to Princess Grace -- but it goes both ways. It would then be hard for her to cherry pick on the comparisons people choose to make on her no matter how many glamour shots she manages to have published. I guess some are correct that Charlene is clearly trading on what assets and abilities she has to get where she wants to be.

I think she definitely has chosen well for herself the company she keeps. JMO.
  #167  
Old 09-25-2007, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tammy81 View Post
Forgive my ignorance, how excatly has she offended the french prime minister.....I didn't catch that bit...I hope someone can explain.
I think the Spanish media also picked up the story. An online version of diezminutos summarized the fiasco and commented, "no fue un gran idea." Not quite sure if they were reacting to CW's comments or to PA's bringing CW to the match.

Still curious though if she's with him in NY. My sources have yet to get back to me.
  #168  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:07 AM
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If the French PM is offended by someone cheering for the opposing team at a sports match then it seems to me he is a bit too easily offended. Is everyone supposed to pretend allegience to a team just because they're sitting near someone from that country? What if it were Monaco vs France, would Charlene cheering for Monaco offend the French PM?
  #169  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lea View Post
If the French PM is offended by someone cheering for the opposing team at a sports match then it seems to me he is a bit too easily offended. Is everyone supposed to pretend allegience to a team just because they're sitting near someone from that country? What if it were Monaco vs France, would Charlene cheering for Monaco offend the French PM?
She was a guest and insulted her host that is rude on her part. She was apparently very obnoxious in her comments. I would ask that you go back to the source where the article is stated and read it. It is not about the French PM being thin skinned it is that she was just plain rude to her host. When Albert attended the Irish/French match he was no longer seated with the French dignitaries and Charlene was not at the game. The correct way to handle a situation like that is to say something like " Too bad the French team has not been playing well lately. It looks to me like Argentina has the stronger team and may well win today." That is voicing one's opinion without insulting one's host. She showed that she had no manners at all.
  #170  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Until she becomes engaged to Albert, she's under no obligation to restrict herself to princess-to-be behaviour. And if he wants to be seen in public with someone who's a private citizen and not representing anything other than herself, that's his choice. I don't think it reflects very well on him, but I don't see a problem where she's concerned. She hasn't labelled herself "princess to be"; other people have done it for her and then blamed her for not behaving according to that label which she didn't choose in the first place.
With all due respect, I disagree. She wouldn't even BE at a rugby match sitting with important people if she wasn't with Albert so she should watch her tongue and her manners as her behavior will be linked to him. She's had almost 2 years to learn how to act and if she hasn't learned it by now, when will she? Charlene is like a child playing dress up. She may look like a princess (but that's still up for debate IMO) but when you strip away the layers she is still a kid. She just seems unteachable. But is Albert wants her at his side when it comes time to entertain foreign diplomats, then God help him! She needs a mentor stat! Especially if she will be his choice for a wife.
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  #171  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:08 PM
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You learn for your mistakes that why Albert was not with diplomat when Iceland and France play. Charlene didn't show up ever.
  #172  
Old 09-26-2007, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by paca View Post
Too bad for her that she finally shows up looking half decent, but all that after insulting the French prime minister into his face. If that is princess to be behaviour, then how come those other princesses didn't do it. Also if you looked at pics from the last French rugby match: Albert was not invited back and the important people kept their distance. In order to get in he had to play on his Irish heritage. People seem to forget that the job is not about looks but about behaviour, and in that department she has not improved but deteriorated. I guess she took lessons from Ernst.
Please show me the link to this article as I can't seem to find it. Thank you.
  #173  
Old 09-26-2007, 04:51 PM
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Please show me the link to this article as I can't seem to find it. Thank you.

I'd like to read this fascinating article myself. I scoured Paris Match and found no mention, and another poster in another thread posted a link to Gente Mondiale and it's version of this "incident" different markedly from the version I am reading on this Forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hibou View Post
She was a guest and insulted her host that is rude on her part. She was apparently very obnoxious in her comments. I would ask that you go back to the source where the article is stated and read it. It is not about the French PM being thin skinned it is that she was just plain rude to her host. When Albert attended the Irish/French match he was no longer seated with the French dignitaries and Charlene was not at the game. The correct way to handle a situation like that is to say something like " Too bad the French team has not been playing well lately. It looks to me like Argentina has the stronger team and may well win today." That is voicing one's opinion without insulting one's host. She showed that she had no manners at all.
He didn't seem offended. The article in Gente Mondial referred to his "sourire sur les levres" (smile, roughtly translated) Why on Earth would they have omitted the fact that people that her remarks rude or inappropriate? Did PA himself appear upset at the Match? How has this huge, international faux pas skipped the attention of most of the press and public in most of France and the Continent??
  #174  
Old 09-26-2007, 05:27 PM
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Looking back at the pictures from the rugby game, I see Prince Albert and Charlene clapping at the same time, probably for the French if Albert is clapping with her. Aside from this, she looked beautiful that day and did stand out among the other women around them. I also wonder if he took Charlene to NY with him, my guess would be that he didn't but I would love to see a picture of them in NY if he did. Will he take her to the Princess Grace Awards in NY in October along with Princess Caroline and Prince Ernst?
  #175  
Old 09-26-2007, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BurberryBrit View Post
With all due respect, I disagree. She wouldn't even BE at a rugby match sitting with important people if she wasn't with Albert so she should watch her tongue and her manners as her behavior will be linked to him. She's had almost 2 years to learn how to act and if she hasn't learned it by now, when will she? Charlene is like a child playing dress up. She may look like a princess (but that's still up for debate IMO) but when you strip away the layers she is still a kid. She just seems unteachable. But is Albert wants her at his side when it comes time to entertain foreign diplomats, then God help him! She needs a mentor stat! Especially if she will be his choice for a wife.
Which is why I was saying that this episode reflects badly on Albert. He takes her to these events where she isn't his fiance or even, apparently, his girlfriend, she's just there as - escort? eye candy? She's in this really ambiguous position; if she tried to behave in a way that a princess would, she'd be accused of overreaching or being snobbish or too ambitious; if she tries to behave as a regular person, she's accused of being rude or not knowing how to behave. And it would seem that, all this time, Albert hasn't really defined her position or given her any real help. This must make for a really awkward situation for people like the French PM, who could be forgiven for not knowing what they're dealing with.

I wonder what would be going on if Princess Grace was still alive. I'll bet this sort of semi-detached relationship wouldn't be allowed to fester like this.
  #176  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Which is why I was saying that this episode reflects badly on Albert. He takes her to these events where she isn't his fiance or even, apparently, his girlfriend, she's just there as - escort? eye candy? She's in this really ambiguous position; if she tried to behave in a way that a princess would, she'd be accused of overreaching or being snobbish or too ambitious; if she tries to behave as a regular person, she's accused of being rude or not knowing how to behave. And it would seem that, all this time, Albert hasn't really defined her position or given her any real help. This must make for a really awkward situation for people like the French PM, who could be forgiven for not knowing what they're dealing with.

I wonder what would be going on if Princess Grace was still alive. I'll bet this sort of semi-detached relationship wouldn't be allowed to fester like this.

I agree 100%, especially with your last statement. PA has reminded me of a child in a candy store since the death of Prince Ranier, sort of running amok and doing as he pleases. I bet Rainier would have put a stop to the ambiguities with PA as well.

But that is an excellent point. If she behaves too grandly she is going to be criticized as overreaching. I put the blame for this squarely on PA's shoulders.
  #177  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:30 PM
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I totally agree with both the previews posts: the majority of the blame in this messy or at least ambiguous situation is on Albert and his immaturity. Still I have to say it is not difficult to know that at a game if you are among personalities you should behave differently than if you were among avarage supporters...Charlene doesn't seem to have the best diplomatic skills, and it also seems there is noone around to teach her.
  #178  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:48 PM
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
I'd like to read this fascinating article myself. I scoured Paris Match and found no mention, and another poster in another thread posted a link to Gente Mondiale and it's version of this "incident" different markedly from the version I am reading on this Forum.



He didn't seem offended. The article in Gente Mondial referred to his "sourire sur les levres" (smile, roughtly translated) Why on Earth would they have omitted the fact that people that her remarks rude or inappropriate? Did PA himself appear upset at the Match? How has this huge, international faux pas skipped the attention of most of the press and public in most of France and the Continent??


And rarely have we seen any sign or discontent PA shows. I can't understand why the surprise or shock or whatever. The young woman according to our views here,began with what we consider unthinkable and outlandish behavior. It was my impression that he has been delighted, really. And I rather enjoyed the post Turin, birthday fanciful courting. He has, imo treated herwith quite fancy and lovely and Sir Lancelet-type behavior. Apparently, his expectation of her is differeant from the folks on these forum.

And he's the Prince-in-Charge
  #179  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:55 PM
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And perhaps this stated (or non-stated) non-status relationship is par for the course in his idea of his "modern reign" (his words).
  #180  
Old 09-26-2007, 10:15 PM
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France-Argentine : Charlene Wittstock : 1 - Franēois Fillon : 0 - Confidentiels - Lepoint.fr

The story about Charlene's remarks to M Fillon are here. I believe Le Point is pretty respectable. I've read and seen links on another board that this was picked up by more "hard news" papers as well. I'll look for those links...
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