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  #601  
Old 06-20-2006, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianneneville
I think that people are wondering because Rainier's grandfather legitimized Rainier's mother so that he would have an heir. Personally, if JGG maintains her apparent work ethic, etc., I don't think that she would be a bad choice. JGG seems to be quite the achiever. And, as much as we love the Trio, I think JGG seems perhaps a little better grounded. But none of this will we know for years to come. One never knows. Perhaps PA is grooming her for something bigger. I would not discount it, nor get particularly upset about it.
Louis was the only child of Albert I, Charlotte was the only child of Louis therefore she was adopted to keep Monaco from reverting to French rule. This is in no way like that and there is no reason to change the Constitution.
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  #602  
Old 06-20-2006, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
Funny thing...

no matter how many times it's been stated that the succession laws in Monaco have laid out clearly how the matter is to be handled regarding who is in line behind Albert to run Monaco, it still seems to re-incarnate as an unsettled issue here....
I think we all grew up with the lines Once Upon a Time and They lived happily ever after. Deep down we all wish for a happy ending to this difficult situation three adults got themselves into.
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  #603  
Old 06-20-2006, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
I think we all grew up with the lines Once Upon a Time and They lived happily ever after. Deep down we all wish for a happy ending to this difficult situation three adults got themselves into.
Well, real life never has an ending, but I think in the case of Jazmin, a happy "result" (??) would only require her personal happiness. It's a forgone conclusion that Albert will not marry Tamara. Goodness, he would have done so already if he had ever intended that!? The only hope on that score is that TR and Albert can be a team about seeing Jazmin through to adulthood. Realistic or not, it is a hope.
  #604  
Old 06-21-2006, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
It's a forgone conclusion that Albert will not marry Tamara. Goodness, he would have done so already if he had ever intended that!? .
Well, he could marry her secretly and divorce her immediately afterwards if he wished to make Jazmin his legitimate heiress. At least I figured from the new act of succession that it doesn't require for the childs parents to be married for a long time. So if he wanted, he probably could - don't think Tamara would say no to getting a title and money in return for a short marriage.

For me the real "problem" is Princess Caroline. We don't know how the siblings really feel for or against each other. Prince Rainier seemed to favour his daughter but that's just an impression from the outside.

Facts are that Prince Albert has it in his hands - he can refrain from marrying, thus leaving the throne to Caroline or her son. He can marry Tamara, making Jazmin his heiress. He can marry someone else and hope his wife starts breeding immediately. He could even select a future bride, seduce her and wait till she actually is pregant or even till the child is born and healthy before marrying her, thus legitimizing the child. Okay, that's a bit more scandalous, but doing it he can.

So I guess he has quite the sharp weapon at the moment against Caroline - she has to do what he wants, I guess. It's not a pleasant scenario but when it comes to siblings with a slightly dysfunctional upbringing and a father who knew how to play the power cards, one never knows.

Let's just wait and see....
  #605  
Old 06-21-2006, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyMacAlpine
Louis was the only child of Albert I, Charlotte was the only child of Louis therefore she was adopted to keep Monaco from reverting to French rule. This is in no way like that and there is no reason to change the Constitution.
As there was no reason to change it in 2002 -- but PR did.
  #606  
Old 06-21-2006, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Well, real life never has an ending, but I think in the case of Jazmin, a happy "result" (??) would only require her personal happiness. It's a forgone conclusion that Albert will not marry Tamara. Goodness, he would have done so already if he had ever intended that!? The only hope on that score is that TR and Albert can be a team about seeing Jazmin through to adulthood. Realistic or not, it is a hope.
IMO: It's not about the mothers -- they are a footnote.
It's about PA's blood and what HE WANTS for the future.
Louis never married Charlotte's mother... but DID adopt her!
  #607  
Old 06-21-2006, 10:39 AM
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I think PR changed the constitution to secure a heir to the throne. He seemed to disagree with the idea of JG or AC to access the throne as he imposed those rules of no adopted children may claim the throne neither out of the wedlock can do it. It shows that he was not fond of the idea of them taking the throne. If PA disagreed with him, he can make changes to the law again, i just dont see that to happen in the near future.
  #608  
Old 06-21-2006, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustWorthy
As there was no reason to change it in 2002 -- but PR did.
Yes, there was and it had nothing to do with keeping either child off the Throne as some have implied. To anyone who disagrees might I suggest they go back and read over the conditions to become a member of the Council of Europe and the video's I have supplied in the past. It took them six years of work to get the changes and come to an agreement. Also the old Constitution didn't secure the Throne passing to Caroline should Albert die without issue. The new one does.
  #609  
Old 06-21-2006, 11:22 AM
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Rainier made a decision to change the constitution, I believe, not to be cruel or single out any of his grandchildren, but he did it in order to prevent any possible succession crises. Succession crises spell doom for any dynasty. Dynasties have literally been destroyed over succession disputes, even, and especially in modern times. A clean and smooth, undisputed succession, backed fully by the law, is the best thing. Imagine when Albert dies, if he has no child from a marriage, and Caroline is given the title. If there is no stipulation that says "only legitimate issue of the sovereign" may succeed, then any child of Albert could come up screaming, "Hey, I have a better claim!" This eliminates those kind of sticky questions. It settles the matter before it can become a matter.
  #610  
Old 06-21-2006, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustWorthy
As there was no reason to change it in 2002 -- but PR did.
There was plenty of reason to change the constitution -- chief among them PA's irresponsible behavior and lifestyle. His family's line would have ended had Rainier died and PA acceeded the throne and then died without heirs (he had not adopted any). At that time he wasn't giving TR or her kid the time of day!

And frankly, Trustworthy, it seems to me that you have a personal interest in trying to see Jazmin "rule" Monaco even though you say you are neutral and only care about her "relationship" with her "father" of which there is no evidence he has a relationship with her whatsoever. What is it your business what the constitution of Monaco is?! Get over the fact that she is just one of his two known "inconvenient" children.
  #611  
Old 06-21-2006, 12:02 PM
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I think we might stop arguing about the succession issue; we've explained how things stand at the moment, and so if someone desperately wants to believe that Albert will choose Jazmin as an heir, or Alex, let's let it be...only time will tell what will happen.
I agree though that many people seem more interested in a throne than in the wellbeing of these kids. As for the calling of the blood, last time I checked Caro's and Steph's kids were related to Albert, and he was more a father figure for them than for his own children.
At this point maybe we should stop repeating the same things over and over...after all, what it said here has no impact on Monaco succession!

Kisses
  #612  
Old 06-21-2006, 12:15 PM
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I agree we should stop arguing about this dead issue but it is a few people who keep bringing it up with all their inaccuracies. It's funny how the settled succession issue can be brought up again and again but we can't speculate about other children of PA's that might still be out there.
  #613  
Old 06-21-2006, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
I think we might stop arguing about the succession issue; we've explained how things stand at the moment, and so if someone desperately wants to believe that Albert will choose Jazmin as an heir, or Alex, let's let it be...only time will tell what will happen.
I agree though that many people seem more interested in a throne than in the wellbeing of these kids. As for the calling of the blood, last time I checked Caro's and Steph's kids were related to Albert, and he was more a father figure for them than for his own children.
At this point maybe we should stop repeating the same things over and over...after all, what it said here has no impact on Monaco succession!

Kisses
Well said! I'm sick and tired of reading about the succession issue too.
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  #614  
Old 06-21-2006, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
I agree we should stop arguing about this dead issue but it is a few people who keep bringing it up with all their inaccuracies. It's funny how the settled succession issue can be brought up again and again but we can't speculate about other children of PA's that might still be out there.
I know what you mean, and my post was intended as a restraint more to myself than to others: whenever someone is inaccurate in talking about succession law or says something without factual backing, I usually feel the need to "rectify" or give my opinion, because there are always third people who don't know much about Monaco laws (totally in their right) and might be confused by incorrect info.
But now I feel we've repeated how things stand after 2002 revision quite enough and, as what some internet people think has no relevance to Monaco, we can just let people say what they wish, correct or not, in order to stop this vicious circle...Of course it is just a suggestion...

Kisses
  #615  
Old 06-21-2006, 03:58 PM
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Well, Grace or Laviollette, if any of you see an inaccuracy in anything I post on any topic... actually, if anyone reading the forums sees me make a mistake in any of my posts, I hope you will speak up and correct me. From where I stand, that is one of the best things about the Royal Forums: having people to discuss these things with and fine tune the areas where our understanding might be flawed. I never get mad at someone for correcting me on factual matters. (Grace, you've corrected me a number of times and I think I always thank you!)
  #616  
Old 06-21-2006, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosca
Well said! I'm sick and tired of reading about the succession issue too.
OKAY, BRAVO! I AGREE!!
  #617  
Old 06-21-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Well, Grace or Laviollette, if any of you see an inaccuracy in anything I post on any topic... actually, if anyone reading the forums sees me make a mistake in any of my posts, I hope you will speak up and correct me. From where I stand, that is one of the best things about the Royal Forums: having people to discuss these things with and fine tune the areas where our understanding might be flawed. I never get mad at someone for correcting me on factual matters. (Grace, you've corrected me a number of times and I think I always thank you!)

I second your post. I am not an expert on monaco's constitution either, i just have an idea of why PR did that changes, I may be wrong and if there are reasons supported by articles or news about this, i would like to read them, so i can learn about the subject. I dont mean to have all the answers or better say the right answers, but if any of you think, there is any inacurracy, you are more than welcome to clarify. Another point is that not everyone read the forums everyday so some of your previews discussions are not necessarily read by all of us. :)
  #618  
Old 06-21-2006, 08:49 PM
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I know, and I agree that I like to be corrected when I'm wrong, but we can't just go on and on posting about the same things. Maybe one of the moderators can make a sticky post explaining the current situation of the succession in Monaco, and so everyone can go there for a correct information...It is fine to give a contribution (each one of us here knows different things) but if the contribution is not accepted it becames a "dialogue between death people" (Italian way of saying for people who don't want to listen to others' opinions)...Kisses
  #619  
Old 06-22-2006, 10:11 PM
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Does anyone have any information about JGG is doing this summer? Do we know if she has any particular summer activities that she enjoys? We really seem to know nothing about her hobbies.
  #620  
Old 06-22-2006, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianneneville
Does anyone have any information about JGG is doing this summer? Do we know if she has any particular summer activities that she enjoys? We really seem to know nothing about her hobbies.
Wouldn't it be lovely if Albert decided to reach out and invite her to a summer holiday on PACHA III and she was hanging out with her cousins and we had pics of them laughing and being a family? It will never happen, but it would be wonderful. :(
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