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  #541  
Old 06-17-2006, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsophy
I agree that JG being an American probably plays a large role in America's interest in her story. But when Angela Brown (looks like a Black American woman, raised in America from childhood--born in Panama) married Prince Maximillian of Lichstenstein, there was no coverage in the United States. One can hardly imagine such a scenario would have occurred had Angela Brown been of European descent. So posters who believe that race plays a role in how the U.S. media treats royal-esque stories are not entirely baseless in their viewpoints.
i didn't know that but it took me back to Grace and Rainier. that made headlines all over the world, bur especially the US.
  #542  
Old 06-17-2006, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustWorthy
...Alex and Jazmin are blood and how poetic that despite being of different color -- they will grow and love as brother and sister.
That brings up another interesting point to discuss in the future, when the lives of these three families, Rotolo, Coste and Grimaldi/Casiraghi, become a little bit closer. Maybe the questions during that time will be what is Tamara's opinion on her daugther having a half black brother? What is Nicole's reaction on her son having an older caucasian sister that possibly never had much contact with their race?

My prediction, and yes, I like to see the future on our imaginary crystal ball, is that we will be discussing that in 2007 or 2008. Until then, I'm afraid it will be status quo for these three families.
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  #543  
Old 06-17-2006, 09:45 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
That brings up another interesting point to discuss in the future, when the lives of these three families, Rotolo, Coste and Grimaldi/Casiraghi, become a little bit closer. Maybe the questions during that time will be what is Tamara's opinion on her daugther having a half black brother? What is Nicole's reaction on her son having an older caucasian sister that possibly never had much contact with their race?

My prediction, and yes, I like to see the future on our imaginary crystal ball, is that we will be discussing that in 2007 or 2008. Until then, I'm afraid it will be status quo for these three families.
Nicole's reaction to an older caucasian sister should be mute as her son is half caucasian and let's not forget the dad himself. Tamara lives in the united states mix chrildren are nothing new.
I think they'll be fighting for their positions in the palace, that's more important than race. The closer you are to daddy the more money you inherit. I wonder if they will ever really get along?
  #544  
Old 06-17-2006, 10:43 PM
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No, I don't think these two dames will ever see eye to eye, unless we count the reading of the will, Albert's Will and Testament.
But their kids, I have hope they will be better with themselves than what their parents were to each other. I can see the girl, Jazmin Grace, making that first approach to get to know her young sibling if she had the chance. She looks as a very nice and happy young lady in those pictures and seems she is doing well in school too so she could mature more than her parents, that seems the ones who are still growing up.
  #545  
Old 06-17-2006, 11:52 PM
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magical2-Right on. For goodness sakes Toledo all of these people are civilized intelligent human beings. It sounds so dismal to hear about a will and testament when these kids, both of them haven't gotten to know and enjoy their father. But I'll bet on Jazmin that she will come and find Alex and he's such a joy boy he'll be delighted to meet her.

Both of these women ought to be as loving, gracious and instrumental in bringing into these children 's lives as much extensive joy as possible. They both,well, I won't say messed up because the kids are marvelous but they created somewhat of a hurdle,can't help but be exactly that. A big possible problem will be with unowho and has he gotten over his stuff and when.

There shouldn't be any animosity, they're in the past-pleasantly I hope and have no competitiveness
  #546  
Old 06-18-2006, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicalt2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
That brings up another interesting point to discuss in the future, when the lives of these three families, Rotolo, Coste and Grimaldi/Casiraghi, become a little bit closer. Maybe the questions during that time will be what is Tamara's opinion on her daugther having a half black brother? What is Nicole's reaction on her son having an older caucasian sister that possibly never had much contact with their race?
Nicole's reaction to an older caucasian sister should be mute as her son is half caucasian and let's not forget the dad himself. Tamara lives in the united states mix chrildren are nothing new.
I think they'll be fighting for their positions in the palace, that's more important than race. The closer you are to daddy the more money you inherit. I wonder if they will ever really get along?
I'm with magical in that Nicole's reaction will be "so what"? but Tolendo misses a point about the United States that I don't think can be said about France. Jazmin can grow up never having to see anyone non-white. There are still areas where the local color is paler than the snow or sand. That said, Jazmin has spent most of her life in California and I'm sure she has met and probably has friends who are non-caucasian.

Eric Alexandre will actually be better served growing up in Europe (France, Monaco) where mixed race kids (and illegitimate sires of Royalty) are more common. Its always a balancing act in the United States. Some people don't like your black half, some your white half, others will see you as the son of an opportunist who is living off her loins. Eric Alexandre cannot 'win' with the United States media. Jazmin can because through her father, she is living a warped version of the American Dream.

The different reactions to Eric Alexandre and Jazmin have been their sexes, their ages, and their mother's races. To this I add the media (as it was and is), and their respective countries of present living.

Yes, Jazmin was sired in Monaco but she was born and lives in the USA. Eric Alexandre was sired most likely in Monaco, but whether it was there or at 60,000 feet, he lives in France. Both he and his mother are followed (primarily) by French and/or European media.

The USA media gave up when Tamara seemed to give up while the constitution changes were being discussed. In 2000, NSYNC, CSI, and The Matrix were hotter than the maybe kid of some second-generation Royal of a country nobody remembered. The world media thought it a joke, because Tamara was American and Albert was certainly gay.

In 2005, a Royal Leader died. That his only son might have a half-black SON by a stewardess was big news. And the whole "we can't comment...yet". You might have well dangled an unlimited credit card in front of a teenager. Once they had their confirmation, it was back on the trail--to Tamara. TWO kids?! Who gets the throne now? The Rules say his sister The Princess, but what if he changed the rules? Would he favor the boy or the long-denied daughter who carries his beloved mother's name? Could an American reign again? {dramatic soap music}

Jazmin is a white girl who has hit a form of a lottery jackpot. She reminds them of her grandmother Grace-a girl who became a star then Princess. Her mother was a separated waitress having fun on vacation who when she found herself pregnant, tried to get help from the father who couldn't comment. Her mother made it good on her own. And now her father can finally recognize her because of his being in charge-just in time for her to go study in Europe near her father's castle! {happy Disney music}

Eric Alexandre is a half-black son whose mother was married with two children. His mother [self-admittedly] slept with his father on the first meeting. She wanted to abort him after his father denied him. Even after his father agreed to keep them in luxury and later recognize him, his mother went to the press while everyone was still grieving his grandfather. Refusing to admit she exposed their son, his mother demanded his father admit to him so she could file for support. Now his mother won't let him see the father who wants a connection. {strong piano cords}

I think Albert learned from what happened with Tamara. It took her at least until 2000 to get for Jazmin what Nicole and Eric Alexandre got upon completion of the DNA test. Both mothers were eventually asked to keep quiet in exchange for a lot of money and making no claims to the throne.

I can see a family reunion of Costes and Rotolos. Maybe even a quiet one with a few Grimaldis, depending upon Albert's wife*. I do no see any sort of event (even private) where Casiraghis, Ducrets, Gottleibs, Hanovers and Princesses would mingle with Costes and/or Rotolos. I never see Michael on the beach with Camille or Alexandra.

Ann


*And despite being raised in South Africa (during Apartheid) and claiming Nelson Mandela is "like a grandfather", I do not see this being Charlene. I see her being a distraction because of her roots. "See, the one I'm considering for my wife is kinda black-like. Its not a racist thing with my son."
  #547  
Old 06-18-2006, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsophy
I agree that JG being an American probably plays a large role in America's interest in her story. But when Angela Brown (looks like a Black American woman, raised in America from childhood--born in Panama) married Prince Maximillian of Lichstenstein, there was no coverage in the United States. One can hardly imagine such a scenario would have occurred had Angela Brown been of European descent. So posters who believe that race plays a role in how the U.S. media treats royal-esque stories are not entirely baseless in their viewpoints.

I live in New York City, a cultural melting pot, and can tell you from experience that this statement is not even close to being very accurate. And I know people from many different cultures around the world that are not living in the utopia you describe. Racial discrimination and colorism are real issues that continue to affect many people's lives--including those of us on these message boards. The world has not put issues of race, color, religion or socio-economic status behind them at all. These things remain an issue for many people in the world.


Bottom line: In my opinion, America is always more interested in stories about Americans (including JG), but America also treats media stories differently depending on the race of the person involved (such as NC and Alex).
I agree that the media presents or doesn't present stories based on racial prejudice. For example, when there was looting after Hurricane Katrina, whites were portrayed as "surviving" whereas blacks were portrayed as crazed looters.

As far as Angela goes, I think the lack of coverage in the US is due to the fact that the Liechtenstein RF is ultra low key. I wasn't aware of their existence until I discovered this forum, and I suspect it is like that for many Americans. Also, given their low key status, their wedding was probably shrouded in secrecy--not because the RF was ashamed of her--but rather because they value their privacy.

I think it will be very interesting to see how Alex's life plays out versus Jazmin. I can't say how things will be for him growing up in France. I think in the US, things are slowly changing as biracial children are very common. I don't know how things are in France.
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  #548  
Old 06-18-2006, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurberryBrit
I agree that the media presents or doesn't present stories based on racial prejudice. For example, when there was looting after Hurricane Katrina, whites were portrayed as "surviving" whereas blacks were portrayed as crazed looters.

As far as Angela goes, I think the lack of coverage in the US is due to the fact that the Liechtenstein RF is ultra low key. I wasn't aware of their existence until I discovered this forum, and I suspect it is like that for many Americans. Also, given their low key status, their wedding was probably shrouded in secrecy--not because the RF was ashamed of her--but rather because they value their privacy.

I think it will be very interesting to see how Alex's life plays out versus Jazmin. I can't say how things will be for him growing up in France. I think in the US, things are slowly changing as biracial children are very common. I don't know how things are in France.
No one in the American media ever talks about the Liechtenstein royals. The American press may not even know Liechtenstein has royals for all the care they show for them.
  #549  
Old 06-18-2006, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neat2912
magical2-Right on. For goodness sakes Toledo all of these people are civilized intelligent human beings. It sounds so dismal to hear about a will and testament when these kids....
Neat2912, I do agree with you but my comment was a light joke on the posibility the two ladies will one day be in the same room at the same time. A start up paragraph not meant to be taken seriously

My second paragraph is the one with the serious idea. The idea that I trust these two little angels will grow up one day and search for each other and show their parents that blood is thicker than water and the past is past. :)
  #550  
Old 06-18-2006, 10:23 AM
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Well , Charlene was raised in Aparteid. As she been reported to be (potential bride]of PA, I sure would like to know her track record as a swimmer. What assistance has she offered to those poor disadvantaged [black]children of her own country? Will she treat Alex any differently thanJazmin ?Well ,Charlene's Father said his family and MRF are very much alike, meaning she will be a wonderful partner to PA .Well will she be a great role model to Jazmin,to this multiculutral world?The truth is it doesn't matter whose cradles a child crawls out of and can be part of the small group of people[caucasian]that learned a hand so there is no longer segregation,or slaves.Because of that the world is looking a little brighter and rainbow or will PA be surprised 5yrs from now.[gossip magzine and the Press]with Albert of Monaco having such poor PR.
  #551  
Old 06-18-2006, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
No one in the American media ever talks about the Liechtenstein royals. The American press may not even know Liechtenstein has royals for all the care they show for them.
Probably true. But don't forget, HSH Princess Angela was an American woman who became a princess. One of your earlier posts said that America loves princess stories...

So why not this one?

Besides, was America talking about Monaco before Grace married Ranier?
  #552  
Old 06-18-2006, 01:19 PM
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Jazmin won't be relevant to any media if PA gets married soon and produces an heir.
  #553  
Old 06-18-2006, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suonymona
.

Who gets the throne now? The Rules say his sister The Princess, but what if he changed the rules? Would he favor the boy or the long-denied daughter who carries his beloved mother's name? Could an American reign again? {dramatic soap music}
Ann, its actually Alex who would get the throne because only males can rule. This is why caroline's son will rule if Albert doesn't adopt or marry Alex mother. Monaco has never had a female ruler.
  #554  
Old 06-18-2006, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsophy
Probably true. But don't forget, HSH Princess Angela was an American woman who became a princess. One of your earlier posts said that America loves princess stories...

So why not this one?

Besides, was America talking about Monaco before Grace married Ranier?
I too have never heard of Princess Angela until I read this form. I think the reason Jazmine is a big topic is because its part of a scandal. A prince with 2 kids out of wedlock and 1 is half black. Who just took the throne after the GREAT father died is just too good.
  #555  
Old 06-18-2006, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicalt2
Ann, its actually Alex who would get the throne because only males can rule. This is why caroline's son will rule if Albert doesn't adopt or marry Alex mother. Monaco has never had a female ruler.
A woman is allowed to rule Monaco if she has no brothers. Caroline, not her son Andrea, is Albert's heiress presumptive because the line of succession goes by each family unit. Andrea is not in the family unit of Caroline, Albert and Stephanie. In their case, Pierre, who is younger than his sister Charlotte, would be ahead of her after his older brother but that is only after Caroline succeeds her brother (if that were to happen). Caroline is free to abdicate in favor of her son, however.

And there was one female ruler of Monaco. Her name was Louise-Hippolyte, Princess of Monaco and she acceded the throne in 1731 and died the same year. She was preceded by her father, Antoine I, and was succeeded by her son, Jacques I.

source: http://www.answers.com/topic/louise-...cess-of-monaco

In any case, Jazmin simply doesn't qualify for the throne of Monaco as does not her half-brother Alexandre. She is illegitimate and was never adopted by Albert under the old constitution. She cannot be adopted under the new constitution. Albert could change the constitution but why would he do that and open up his family and future legitimate heirs to the same issues that Rainier, with Albert's support, sought to fix by closing that loophole?

Also, I believe Albert will marry soon and probably produce an heir so all of this will be irrelevant anyway.
  #556  
Old 06-18-2006, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Laviollette
A woman is allowed to rule Monaco if she has no brothers. Caroline, not her son Andrea, is Albert's heiress presumptive because the line of succession goes by each family unit. Andrea is not in the family unit of Caroline, Albert and Stephanie. In their case, Pierre, who is younger than his sister Charlotte, would be ahead of her after his older brother but that is only after Caroline succeeds her brother (if that were to happen). Caroline is free to abdicate in favor of her son, however.

And there was one female ruler of Monaco. Her name was Louise-Hippolyte, Princess of Monaco and she acceded the throne in 1731 and died the same year. She was preceded by her father, Antoine I, and was succeeded by her son, Jacques I.

source: http://www.answers.com/topic/louise-...cess-of-monaco

In any case, Jazmin simply doesn't qualify for the throne of Monaco as does not her half-brother Alexandre. She is illegitimate and was never adopted by Albert under the old constitution. She cannot be adopted under the new constitution. Albert could change the constitution but why would he do that and open up his family and future legitimate heirs to the same issues that Rainier, with Albert's support, sought to fix by closing that loophole?

Also, I believe Albert will marry soon and probably produce an heir so all of this will be irrelevant anyway.
Your right here's what the wikepedia website says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_...ince_of_Monaco

"On April 2, 2002 Monaco passed Princely Law 1.249 which provides that if a reigning prince dies without surviving legitimate issue, the throne would pass to his siblings and their descendants under the rule of male-preference primogeniture. In October 2005, (after Albert's accession to the throne) this law took full effect when ratified by France, pursuant to the 1918 Franco-Monégasque Treaty. Before this change, the crown could pass to a direct male descendant of the reigning prince only, making Albert's sisters ineligible."

But doesn't this mean that if a law was change and both kids became legitimate it would still go to the male. So Jazmine still would not inherit the throne over Alex.
  #557  
Old 06-18-2006, 06:20 PM
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You can't find more information about Monaco's succession issues in this thread:

Monaco's succession issues

There is no need to repeat the discussion in this thread.
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  #558  
Old 06-18-2006, 10:30 PM
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In a not so subtle attempt to change the subject, I have JGG/JGR had a nice day today considering it's FAther's Day in US. It must have been nice for her to have her first Father's Day where her paternity is no longer an issue!
  #559  
Old 06-18-2006, 10:49 PM
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All posts related to Alexandre and Nicole Coste have been moved to this thread. Please let's stay on topic.

Thanks,

Mandy
Monaco Moderator
  #560  
Old 06-18-2006, 11:30 PM
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I just bought the new Point De Vue that has Albert and Jazmin Grace on the cover. We get the magazine about a week late from publication. Her face is blurred inside.
By the way, there is a great article on page 58 on the return of the 'Dracula' castle in Rumania to its last owner.
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