The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #521  
Old 06-16-2006, 02:59 PM
Toledo's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain, residing in the USA, United States
Posts: 1,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
The problem is she's not a "little princess". She is just white.
You just made me smile by the sincerity of your comment. Because under all the media marketing of any celebrity issue we always see 'that' as the understatement.
__________________

  #522  
Old 06-16-2006, 03:20 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: --xxSan Diego, Algeria
Posts: 126
Kudos today to some great thinking in my opinion-Posts 514-through the end. IMO-Tell it like it -if not is-ought to be!!!!!
__________________

  #523  
Old 06-16-2006, 08:16 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindsorIII
I never understood the theories that say PA can't do anything for his illegitimate kids because PR changed the constitution in 2002. First of all Jazmine was born before the change, so legally it may not even apply to her. Alex was born after the law change, but if PA is Sovereign Prince than he has the power to change the constitution just as his father PR did.

I don't understand how this is not clear. Did PR put some kind of stipulation in the constitution that says, it can never be changed after the changes he made. If not, why do people think PA can't change it.

He is sovereign prince now just as his dad was, and every price before him.

Prince Louis changed the constitiution, Prince Rainier changed the constitution and I beleive now Prince Albert can also change the constitutuion.

Only time will tell what he does with his children, both the illegitimate ones in JAsmine and Alex and legitimate children of his own if he ever marries one day.

Someone please shed some light on why people say the constitution was changed in 2002 therefore PA can't do anything about it.
I don't know the details, but isn't it also the case that succession in Monaco can only go thru the males, even before the change to the constitution? Isn't that way Pss Caroline was not successor to Ranier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
To start seeing them?
I'm sorry I couldn't resist; the man publicly denied that the girl was his daughter for 13 years, and now all of a sudden he wishes her to be on the throne? Maybe, if he formed a bond with his kids, he could think about changing the Constitution in 8-10 years, but right know the call of the blood is not even strong enough to make him show up with them in public...
Plus, not only the new Constitution applies to both Jazmin and Alex, but I think Rainier (and Albert with him) changed it for the exact purpose of cutting out natural children out of the line of succession (and remember in 2002 both Al and Rainier had known about Jazmin for 9 years, so they could keep the Constitution as it was, and let Albert decide whether to adopt her or not). So, I know ALbert can do what he wants, but first of all it is not very serious to change the COnstitution of a Country every two or three years, and second, I don't see Albert disagreeing with something that he helped sign just a few years ago...

I have explained my opinion; now I would like to know how Albert's behaviour leads you to believe he intends to change the Constitution...

Kisses
Ok, but again, isn't it the case that the successor would have to be male anyway, so even if Albert had all girl children out of wedlock and before any changes to their constitution, they still would not be in line anyway.

Is that correct? Anyone know?

Personally, my opinion has not changed on Albert because of his recognitions of these children, J or A, nor has my opinion changed about their mothers either. Adults behaving irresponsibly (opportunistically as some may have it) and they've had to deal with the consequences, good/bad/ugly. Children caught in between, but hopefully the children will forge ahead, despite the parents.

In the end, they will all survive and will all certainly do better than most people because of the money. They have never any need to want for anything else ever again. Why should anyone ever worry about anyone in these sagas?
  #524  
Old 06-16-2006, 08:31 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: xxx, United States
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
The problem is she's not a "little princess". She is just white.
Bravo, everybody is trying to avoid mentioning that fact so thanks.
  #525  
Old 06-17-2006, 03:15 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator in Memoriam
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabilo
Bravo, everybody is trying to avoid mentioning that fact so thanks.
Well, not everybody. Some members don't see it as a skin colour issue and therefore don't see any relevance in raising it, while some obviously do. Maybe a female American teenager has more "popular" and media appeal than a relatively less known three-year old living in France. "Princess Diaries"-type fantasy will always win out, nonsense though it is.
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
  #526  
Old 06-17-2006, 04:22 AM
Grace's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
I don't know the details, but isn't it also the case that succession in Monaco can only go thru the males, even before the change to the constitution? Isn't that way Pss Caroline was not successor to Ranier?


Ok, but again, isn't it the case that the successor would have to be male anyway, so even if Albert had all girl children out of wedlock and before any changes to their constitution, they still would not be in line anyway.

Is that correct? Anyone know?
In Monaco both before and after the Constitutional change natural (born out of wedlock) children, were not in line. The difference in this regard is that before the Consitutional review the Sovereign could adopt someone, a child, a relative or anyone else, and make him in this way his heir (that's what Prince Louis did with Charlotte, Rainier's mother); now adoption does not count for the succession to the Throne so Albert could not adopt let's say Andrea, Louis, or Alex and make them his heirs.
As for the female issue, women could always acceed the throne, but only if they had no brothers, because in Monaco there is a "male preference"; that's why Caro is the first born, but Albert is the heir. Had Albert been a girl, Caro would now be on throne.
What was changed in 2002 is that before, only direct (children and grandchildren) discendents were in line, so Albert, Caro, Steph and their kids were all in line until Rainier was alive; if Albert had died before Rainier, Caro would have been the legitimate heiresse. Once Albert got on the throne, Caro and Steph would be cut off because they were not direct discendents (daughters) of the current Sovereign, but collateral (sisters).
In 2002 Rainier decided that also collateral discendants can be in line to the Throne, thus keeping Caro, Andrea, Pierre, Char, Alex, Steph, Louis, Pauline all in the succession line. Camille is not in line as a child born out of wedlock...as adoption is not an option anymore, she (as Alex and Jazmin) could be in line only if Steph married her father. Anyway, if natural children were in line (this would require a new change of the Constitution!), Alex and not Jazmin would be Albert's Heir, due to the mael preference or Salic Law.

Hope it was clear, otherwise, feel free to ask,

Kisses
  #527  
Old 06-17-2006, 05:37 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabilo
Bravo, everybody is trying to avoid mentioning that fact so thanks.
For me, skin colour doesn`t matter. I think Alex is a very sweet boy, he just isn`t that present at the moment. I really would like to see a picture of PA with his 2 children together, but I doubt that will ever happen. But who knows what the future will bring! :)
  #528  
Old 06-17-2006, 07:41 AM
Ariel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Well, not everybody. Some members don't see it as a skin colour issue and therefore don't see any relevance in raising it, while some obviously do. Maybe a female American teenager has more "popular" and media appeal than a relatively less known three-year old living in France. "Princess Diaries"-type fantasy will always win out, nonsense though it is.
I agree with this, I personally dont see this as an skin colour issue. I think it changes because Alex is too young and the press dont get that much interest on him, in the other side, his sister is older and starts getting the attention of the people, specially after Albert denied being her father for so long and the fact that she is american like her grandmother, makes her the center of all this fairy tales types of stories. Another example is that you see how Alexandra gets less attention than the casiraghis and it is because of her age. I dont think people has treated better TR than NC, before Albert recognized JG, people attacked Tamara in all the ways possible. Now it seems that they are taking it quiet, as she proved everybody to be wrong and now people are expecting her next move. If she does something like NC did, going to photoshoots and giving interviews, i think people will criticize her the same way.
  #529  
Old 06-17-2006, 07:58 AM
Toledo's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain, residing in the USA, United States
Posts: 1,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Well, not everybody. Some members don't see it as a skin colour issue and therefore don't see any relevance in raising it, while some obviously do. Maybe a female American teenager has more "popular" and media appeal than a relatively less known three-year old living in France. "Princess Diaries"-type fantasy will always win out, nonsense though it is.
Well, in the USA is always about race considering this is a society that barely forty years ago had minorities demanding their basic human rights. even today, with the mass migration of workers from non-majority caucasian places you see the double standard on the media. To this day race is a big issue over here. And little things like the way the press cover he news, for example on Jazmin Grace, shows this double standard. She is the idea exploited on The Princess Diaries while her half brother Alexandre is barely a foot note even when he made the recognition news a year before.

So, Warren, over here news like this on Jazmin are always presented with an agenda. I don't know if the same happens in the other places our Forum colleagues post from but in the US is a whole different approach. That's why it sounds so shocking to our fellow members in other countries. In this day an age you just don't comprehend why the subject of race is still a big issue in a society, but it is. That's the terrible thing, it is.
  #530  
Old 06-17-2006, 08:02 AM
CasiraghiTrio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burbank, United States
Posts: 6,413
I agree with Warren. Like I said before, the [especially American] media always love to have their princess darlings.
  #531  
Old 06-17-2006, 08:09 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SYDNEY, Australia
Posts: 3
Question

Sadly, Princess Grace's death turned Albert into a playboy.
  #532  
Old 06-17-2006, 08:37 AM
Toledo's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain, residing in the USA, United States
Posts: 1,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by MURPHY
Sadly, Princess Grace's death turned Albert into a playboy.
That seems to be a turning point to the Grimaldis life.
Her death caused a chain reaction on that family like none other. But an unexpected and tragic death often causes that in any family. You just don't know how to recover because the family is caught off guard. That also shows how important Grace was as the matriarch of the family, the glue that kept everyone in check and tied together. When she died it was like a personality change for everyone in that family as if one assumed the role of the other one. Princess Caroline became a new family matriarch, her young sister became what Caroline was (the rebel princess) and then some. Prince Albert became his father back in the 1950's when he was the single playboy.

One person was left out, Rainier. He became a ghost, he followed in life his beloved wife and never recovered from losing her. I have heard so many stories on how rocky their lives were, but Rainier's life after Grace died showed they loved each other deeply. One could not continue without the other. That was true love what those two had.
  #533  
Old 06-17-2006, 09:39 AM
Kastalia's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: -, Cyprus
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassi
For me, skin colour doesn`t matter. I think Alex is a very sweet boy, he just isn`t that present at the moment. I really would like to see a picture of PA with his 2 children together, but I doubt that will ever happen. But who knows what the future will bring! :)
So true Cassi.
  #534  
Old 06-17-2006, 10:27 AM
ally_cooper's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Posts: 352
I think is like Warren said. She's a girl, she's american and she's an adolescent is like a different kind of American Dream. I have friends in the States and they are facinating with the fact to have a Monacharchies here, Princes and Princesses and Jazmin is an american girl that is not a Princess, but is the daughter of Sovereign... almost the same (I know she will not reign and never will be a Princess but there is not so important for the press). On the other hand we have Alexandre, a cute a sweet boy... but he's just 2 years old. Lol I think is more a thing of ages. What sells more? An american teenager who's daughter of a Prince or a 2 year-old-boy son of the same Prince?
  #535  
Old 06-17-2006, 01:37 PM
Ariel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 555
Another thing is that she can sell their magazines, he cant, unless people are interested to know how is he doing on preschool. One important factor is that she is american so american magazines are more interested in her as it is normal, french will be more intersted in alexander if he was not so young. For some people the fact of the race could be important but i dont think the majority of the people thinks the same way or share those views. The attention of the press now is on JG because she is the latest of his children being recognized.
  #536  
Old 06-17-2006, 02:56 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: xxx, United States
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Well, not everybody. Some members don't see it as a skin colour issue and therefore don't see any relevance in raising it, while some obviously do. Maybe a female American teenager has more "popular" and media appeal than a relatively less known three-year old living in France. "Princess Diaries"-type fantasy will always win out, nonsense though it is.
sorry, i did not mean everybody but quite a few, sorry about that. However I do believe skin colour is an issue and will always be raised. And in this case, alex will always have to deal with that. That is just how the world is.
  #537  
Old 06-17-2006, 03:17 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabilo
That is just how the world is.
Then let us make a difference!!! :)
  #538  
Old 06-17-2006, 03:31 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel
Another thing is that she can sell their magazines, he cant, unless people are interested to know how is he doing on preschool. One important factor is that she is american so american magazines are more interested in her as it is normal, french will be more intersted in alexander if he was not so young. For some people the fact of the race could be important but i dont think the majority of the people thinks the same way or share those views. The attention of the press now is on JG because she is the latest of his children being recognized.


I agree with you. Most of French, whites, are more interested by Alex than JG because he was born and live in France. I don't think that the fact he is a mixed blood child is so important, especially in Europe.
We love JG too and we hope she will come to study in France.


Par la Grâce de Dieu, Louis-le-14ème.
  #539  
Old 06-17-2006, 04:57 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabilo
sorry, i did not mean everybody but quite a few, sorry about that. However I do believe skin colour is an issue and will always be raised. And in this case, alex will always have to deal with that. That is just how the world is.
We can continue to hope for a day when the color of one's skin, the manner of one's speech and the attire one wears isn't an automatic character assassination or judgement -- where we can all live as one and be judged on our words and actions and not the expectations of others.

For some of us, maybe most of us, we live that life today -- and are thankful the worst is behind us -- but then at times we can be so easily reminded how shallow, narrow-minded, resentful and judgemental a few can be -- spoiling it for the rest of us.

We have a choice: ignore those who taint us with these comments, or dignify them by either agreeing or disagreeing. If we don't give them an audience and ignore them -- they will go away.

Whether age 2 or 14 -- boy or girl -- both are young children and may have never known a world whereby prejudice exists -- Alex and Jazmin are blood and how poetic that despite being of different color -- they will grow and love as brother and sister.
  #540  
Old 06-17-2006, 05:56 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis14
I agree with you. Most of French, whites, are more interested by Alex than JG because he was born and live in France. I don't think that the fact he is a mixed blood child is so important, especially in Europe.

Par la Grâce de Dieu, Louis-le-14ème.
I agree that JG being an American probably plays a large role in America's interest in her story. But when Angela Brown (looks like a Black American woman, raised in America from childhood--born in Panama) married Prince Maximillian of Lichstenstein, there was no coverage in the United States. One can hardly imagine such a scenario would have occurred had Angela Brown been of European descent. So posters who believe that race plays a role in how the U.S. media treats royal-esque stories are not entirely baseless in their viewpoints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustWorthy
...where we can all live as one and be judged on our words and actions and not the expectations of others.

For some of us, maybe most of us, we live that life today -- and are thankful the worst is behind us...
I live in New York City, a cultural melting pot, and can tell you from experience that this statement is not even close to being very accurate. And I know people from many different cultures around the world that are not living in the utopia you describe. Racial discrimination and colorism are real issues that continue to affect many people's lives--including those of us on these message boards. The world has not put issues of race, color, religion or socio-economic status behind them at all. These things remain an issue for many people in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustWorthy
We have a choice: ignore those who taint us with these comments, or dignify them by either agreeing or disagreeing. If we don't give them an audience and ignore them -- they will go away.
Maybe I am misunderstanding you here, but I am not sure why the assumption is that the poster was deliberately taunting those of us on the board. I thought the idea is that we get away from assumptions! Perhaps the poster was expressing a view, based on his or her own experiences, and his or her opinion simply differs from yours. On an internet forum board, this is perfectly acceptable. I do not assume the poster meant any ill-will by it. Especially since he/she apologized afterward for making a generalization.

Bottom line: In my opinion, America is always more interested in stories about Americans (including JG), but America also treats media stories differently depending on the race of the person involved (such as NC and Alex).
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jazmin Grace Grimaldi Current Events 4 : Feb.2007 - April 2007 Lady Jennifer Current Events Archive 43 04-09-2007 01:14 AM
Charlene Wittstock Current Events 7 : Nov.2006 - Jan.2007 tbhrc Current Events Archive 201 01-11-2007 06:35 PM
Jazmin Grace Grimaldi (Rotolo) 2 : April 2006 - June 2006 Elspeth Current Events Archive 229 06-01-2006 02:21 AM




Popular Tags
albania ascot 2016 baptism best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit best outfit december birthday coronation coup d'etat crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion denmark duchess of cambridge duke of cambridge fashion and style fashion poll general news grahamm jewels king abdullah ii king carl gustaf and queen silvia king willem-alexander marriage member introduction monarchy new zealand norway november 2016 october 2016 official visit picture of the week prince charles princess charlene eveningwear princess marie princess marie events princess mary princess mary casual style princess mary daytime fashion princess mary eveningwear princess mary fashion princess mary hats princess sofia queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen margrethe queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania eveningwear queen rania fashion queen silvia revolution september 2016 shah state visit succession sweden the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats tiara


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:25 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises