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  #61  
Old 05-09-2005, 08:13 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semisquare
reina & lashinka
i am not in denial about racism being alive in the world, it seem that race didnt look like a big deal in france.my husband and i took a vacation in paris and zurich we even snowboard in the alps but i didnt notice any problems. my husband is white and im black but people didnt pay any attention to us. so i just guess that race didnt play a part in whom albert would marry, if she happen to be black
Hello,
My husband is Indian/African and I am white. I was blissfully unaware and didn't experience any sort of racism until I met him. Very unfortunate.
Some people care & some people don't, it may be more dominant in some parts of the world.
For the Grimaldi family on a personal and private level I don't think it's an issue.
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  #62  
Old 05-09-2005, 10:29 AM
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Does anyone remember back during the Princess Grace Foundation Awards either last fall or the year before, Prince Albert was standing with Sharon Stone. A reporter said something to them about her looking like Princess Grace and Ms. Stone said something like "I've been trying to get him to marry me for years." According to the press, Albert got a little miffed and stated that he was in a relationship with an African woman. (Wonder if it was THIS woman??? Probably not.) ANYWAY, my point was that this doesn't sound at all like Albert would be the type to be racist.
BTW, as a Caucasian in South Georgia, USA, I have some very good friends that are black, and they have assured me that racism is very much alive and rampant, at least here.
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  #63  
Old 05-09-2005, 02:30 PM
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Money makes the world go round??? Regardless of the race (e.g., Tamara Rotolo), women are coming out claiming that Albert fathered a child. True or not, I feel sorry for these children.
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  #64  
Old 05-09-2005, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarotonga
Money makes the world go round??? Regardless of the race (e.g., Tamara Rotolo), women are coming out claiming that Albert fathered a child. True or not, I feel sorry for these children.
I feel sorry for them too...plus I find the timing for all of this to be coming out rather odd to be honest...Right when he becomes ruler after his father's death then he suddenly has 3 kids with different women? Maybe it's true, who knows. Hopefully, all of this will be sorted out after the mourning period...If nothing else but for the children's sake...Though I still say, I just think that the timing is rather convenient, does anyone agree?
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  #65  
Old 05-09-2005, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Did anyone, in the US see Geraldo Rivera tonight? On it was the issue of Albert and Ms. Coste. It was mentioned that in France, if a child wasn't acknowledged by the age of two, then law would prevent them from being acknowledged until age 18. I'm sure I paraphrased this inaccurately, but I hope you get my point, that for Ms. Coste, time was running out.
I wish I would have seen it because I'm really fishing for answers to justify what she has done.
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  #66  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:31 PM
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Please don't think that I was trying to pull the race card. I hate it when ppl do that. But what I ma trying to say is that racism may be a big factor in this. I don't think that albert should marry a black woman just to prove he si not racist. I think we all know that he is totally not racist. (I also don't think ppl should vote for someone b/c they are black, but that is another issue). But all in all I hope he marries for love, and if this is his child than if he wants to, he should acknowledge him. If albert does not see acknowledging the child as appropiate, than I support that decision too.
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  #67  
Old 05-09-2005, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
Please don't think that I was trying to pull the race card. I hate it when ppl do that. But what I ma trying to say is that racism may be a big factor in this. I don't think that albert should marry a black woman just to prove he si not racist. I think we all know that he is totally not racist. (I also don't think ppl should vote for someone b/c they are black, but that is another issue). But all in all I hope he marries for love, and if this is his child than if he wants to, he should acknowledge him. If albert does not see acknowledging the child as appropiate, than I support that decision too.
I, for one didn't think you were. I was making a general comment from what I've heard from the media and from my own experiences with others. This is a difficult topic. Alexandre could or could not be Albert's child. The poor little boy is stuck in a public conflict and could do nothing about it. I hope that Albert marries for love, too because a marriage of convenience (anyone's convenience) would only make everyone miserable.
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  #68  
Old 05-09-2005, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeccaLynn07
I feel sorry for them too...plus I find the timing for all of this to be coming out rather odd to be honest...Right when he becomes ruler after his father's death then he suddenly has 3 kids with different women? Maybe it's true, who knows. Hopefully, all of this will be sorted out after the mourning period...If nothing else but for the children's sake...Though I still say, I just think that the timing is rather convenient, does anyone agree?
I wrote this earlier today.
Quote:
The mourning period ends July 6, 2005 and Alexandre was born August 24, 2003 and it was stated he promised to do the right thing. What was she going to do if Rainier hadn't passed away?
That would have given Albert over a month to do what she claimed he said he would do. There is not 3 children, 3 woman have made claims. One was proven not to be his. The Palace was given blood for testing and they stated Albert was not the father of Jazim Grimaldi. That is enough for me to believe she is not his child. I have thought of this a lot since it came to the worlds attention. I wanted to stay out of this and keep quiet only found I couldn't. My next post will be long.
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  #69  
Old 05-09-2005, 09:40 PM
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i have a silly question, since in france a child has to be claimed by a father by 2yrs and if not then untill 18yrs. is that big of a deal to wait until the child is a little older? would it have hurt to wait until the child was 18? was the point of her going to the press was to force albert to play an active role in her youngest son's life? does her older sons have fathers who play an acitve roles in their lives? can someone pls answer this for me, cause i just don't understand all this drama.
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  #70  
Old 05-09-2005, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semisquare
i have a silly question, since in france a child has to be claimed by a father by 2yrs and if not then untill 18yrs. is that big of a deal to wait until the child is a little older? would it have hurt to wait until the child was 18? was the point of her going to the press was to force albert to play an active role in her youngest son's life? does her older sons have fathers who play an acitve roles in their lives? can someone pls answer this for me, cause i just don't understand all this drama.
1. No it isn't. 2. No it wouldn't. 3. Only she knows for sure. 4. No idea she was getting a divorce when she met Albert.
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  #71  
Old 05-09-2005, 09:48 PM
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hummm, thx for the answering and this is some food for thought
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  #72  
Old 05-09-2005, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreed777
Does anyone remember back during the Princess Grace Foundation Awards either last fall or the year before, Prince Albert was standing with Sharon Stone. A reporter said something to them about her looking like Princess Grace and Ms. Stone said something like "I've been trying to get him to marry me for years." According to the press, Albert got a little miffed and stated that he was in a relationship with an African woman. (Wonder if it was THIS woman??? Probably not.) ANYWAY, my point was that this doesn't sound at all like Albert would be the type to be racist.
BTW, as a Caucasian in South Georgia, USA, I have some very good friends that are black, and they have assured me that racism is very much alive and rampant, at least here.
Albert said he already had a date.
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  #73  
Old 05-09-2005, 09:57 PM
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Oh, okay. Thanks, Lady MacAlpine! I couldn't remember exactly how it went, just a vague recollection!
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  #74  
Old 05-09-2005, 10:45 PM
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Here is some reading for anyone interested. This is the type I have done over the span of several years due to things being written about Albert and what John Glatt said about Princess Grace really ticked me off.

Page 233
Quote:
The Prince had every reason to be concerned. For any child of his would automatically be in line to the Monaco throne.
Page 234 of The Royal House of Monaco there is more saying Albert was scared etc.
Quote:
However by taking the test he would be forced to acknowledge that she is his first born and heir to the throne. Despite my assurances I wanted nothing other than him to be a father to our daughter, his family feared an outsider would ultimately control the family.
Read the following and you will see why Tamara's words aren't factual it couldn't have happened. Law is something I understand and in my former work for over 5 years lost only 1 case due to my own error.


THE PRINCE

In the first chapter of this Constitution, it is laid down that the executive power is responsible to the supreme authority of the reigning Prince. The Constitution of 1962 also states that the succession to the Throne passes to the direct and legitimate descendants of the reigning Prince under the principle of primogeniture, male descendants taking precedence over female descendants of the same degree of kin. In the absence of legitimate descendants, an adopted child may succeed to the Throne. The Prince, however, can only exercise his powers if he has reached his majority, fixed at the age of 21. During his minority, power is exercised by a regency.
The Sovereign represents Monaco in its relations with foreign powers ; he signs and ratifies treaties.

http://www.monaco.mc/monaco/info/institutions.html

Article 10
La succession au Trône, ouverte par suite de décès ou d'abdication, s'opère dans la descendance directe et légitime du Prince régnant, par ordre de primogéniture avec priorité masculine au même degré de parenté.
A défaut de descendance directe et légitime, la succession s'opère au profit des frères et soeurs du Prince régnant et de leurs descendants directs et légitimes, par ordre de primogéniture avec priorité masculine au même degré de parenté.
Si l'héritier qui aurait été appelé à monter sur le Trône en vertu des alinéas précédents est décédé ou a renoncé avant l'ouverture de la succession, la dévolution s'opère au profit de ses propres descendants directs et légitimes, selon l'ordre de primogéniture avec priorité masculine au même degré de parenté.
Si l'application des paragraphes ci-dessus ne permet pas de pourvoir à la vacance du Trône, la succession s'opère au profit d'un collatéral désigné par le Conseil de la Couronne sur avis conforme du Conseil de régence. Les pouvoirs princiers sont provisoirement exercés par le Conseil de régence.
La succession au Trône ne peut s'opérer qu'au profit d'une personne ayant la nationalité monégasque au jour de l'ouverture de la succession.
Les modalités d'application du présent article sont fixées, en tant que de besoin, par les statuts de la Famille Souveraine, pris par Ordonnance Souveraine.


The succession to the throne, opened by death or abdication, takes place direct and legitimate issue of the reigning prince, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship.
In the absence of direct legitimate issue, the succession passes to the brothers and sisters of the reigning prince and their direct legitimate descendants, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship.
If the heir who would have acceded by virtue of the preceding paragraphs is deceased or has renounced before the succession became open, the succession passes to his own direct legitimate descendants, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship.
If the application of the preceding paragraphs does not fill the vacancy of the throne, the succession passes to a collateral appointed by the Crown Council upon same advice of the Regency Council. The powers of the prince are temporarily held by the Regency Council.
The throne can only pass to a person holding monegasque citizenship on the day the succession opens.
The procedures of application of this article are set, as needed, by the statutes of the Sovereign Family, promulgated by Sovereign ordinance.


From 1962 to 2002 article 10 read as follows:

La succession au trône, ouverte par suite de décès ou d’abdication, s’opère dans la descendance directe et légitime du Prince régnant, par ordre de primogéniture, avec priorité des descendants mâles au même degré de parenté. À défaut de descendant légitime, l’enfant adoptif ou ses propres descendants légitimes sont habiles à succéder. The succession to the throne, when opened by death or abdication, takes place within the direct and legitimate descent of the reigning Prince, by primogeniture, with precedence of males within the same degree of kinship. In the absence of a legitimate descendant, the adopted child or the legitimate descendants thereof are able to succeed. Article 16
Le Prince confère les ordres, titres et autres distinctions.

The Prince confers orders, titles and other distinctions


http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/monaco.htm#status

more to follow
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  #75  
Old 05-09-2005, 11:01 PM
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I underlined parts to pay attention to and put them in red. My words are in blue.

The House Laws

The first House Laws were promulgated by an Ordonnance of 15 May 1882, amended by Ordonnance of 30 October 1918 (concerning adoptions) and an Ordonnance of 31 August 1959 (on regency). From 1882 to 1911, they alone defined the law of succession. The House Laws were last modified by an Ordonnance of 29 May 2002, which also repealed the ordonnance of 30 Oct 1918 on adoption (see the old text of the house laws). The English translation is mine. (those of the writer of the site not LadyMacAlpine)

Why hasn't Albert married? Stand up to his father and do it without his permission? Why has he broken relationships off as its said his father has instructed him to?

Article 3
Aucun Membre de la Famille Souveraine ne peut se marier sans l'autorisation du Prince régnant. Le mariage contracté sans cette autorisation emporte privation de tout droit à la Couronne, tant pour celui qui a contracté ce mariage que pour ses descendants.
Néanmoins, en cas de dissolution du mariage et en l'absence d'enfant issu de ce dernier, l'héritier qui l'aurait contracté recouvrera son droit à la Couronne si aucune succession n'est intervenue entretemps.

No member of the Sovereign Family can marry without the authorization of the reigning Prince. A marriage contracted without such authorization results in a loss of all rights to the Crown for the individual who contracted the marriage as well as for his descendants.
However, in case of dissolution of the marriage and in the absence of any issue from it, the heir who had contracted that marriage shall recover his right to the Crown if no succession took place in the meantime.


Although Stephanie's children were born before her marriage, Monegasque civil law, like French law, provides that natural children are fully and completely legitimized by the marriage of their parents (article 227 of the Monegasque Civil Code states in part: "Les enfants nés hors mariage, autres que les enfants adultérins, sont légitimés par le mariage subséquent de leurs père et mère, lorsque ceux-ci les ont légalement reconnus avant leur mariage ou qu'ils les reconnaissent au moment de la célébration." while art. 229 states: "Les enfants légitimés par le mariage subséquent auront les mêmes droits que s'ils étaient nés de ce mariage"). They are thus apt to succeed. Stéphanie's last child Camille Marie Kelly Grimaldi (b. 15 Jul 1998) of undeclared father, is not (yet) legitimate and thus not in line.

Nicole became pregnant December 2002 and Alexandre was born August 24, 2003. If she concieved the first week of December 2002 the following was already law.

The change to the succession laws in 2002
A law of 2 April 2002 modified article 10. Adoption is now ruled out, and the succession passes, upon death or abdication, to the direct legitimate descent of the previous prince, failing which to his siblings and their descent, failing which to a collateral heir chosen by the Regency Council and the Crown Council in agreement (the composition of the Crown Council is set in art. 75 of the constitution and includes 7 members appointed for 3 years, 4 nominated by the Prince and 3 by the legislature; the composition of the Regency Council is determined by the House laws).

Thus the throne can now pass from Albert II to his sisters and their children. The new law, however, restricts succession to persons holding Monegasque citizenship at the time of the demise of the previous prince. Laws governing Monegasque citizenship (which is no longer defined in the Constitution) should be promulgated soon.

Upon the accession of Albert II, Antoinette and her issue automatically ceased to be in the line of succession, but they remain potential heirs in the event of Rainier's line dying out completely.

Direct is considered the male line which carries the name of Grimaldi however it can pass to Caroline due the changes made.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/monaco.htm#status
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  #76  
Old 05-09-2005, 11:03 PM
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A+++++ For research... I'm glad that you clarified that for everyone, LadyMacAlpine!
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  #77  
Old 05-09-2005, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyMacAlpine
I wrote this earlier today. That would have given Albert over a month to do what she claimed he said he would do. There is not 3 children, 3 woman have made claims. One was proven not to be his. The Palace was given blood for testing and they stated Albert was not the father of Jazim Grimaldi. That is enough for me to believe she is not his child. I have thought of this a lot since it came to the worlds attention. I wanted to stay out of this and keep quiet only found I couldn't. My next post will be long.
Whoops, sorry that came out wrong, I meant that it seemed odd that three women were claiming that their children were his...I don't think Jazmine is his daughter either.
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  #78  
Old 05-10-2005, 08:37 AM
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I concur 100% She has a selfish love, if love at all! Or may we state, what (not who) is she actually in love with?

The more I read this outstanding board, the more I understand why Albert has not married yet.
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  #79  
Old 05-10-2005, 03:21 PM
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So, do you all think that the baby is Albert's? and not perhaps photos taken in a friendly enviroment? I have plety of pictures picking, feeding, bathing, sleeping and what ever has to do with kids in my album and half of those are not with my kids, there are cousings, friends, godkids and everyone in between. So the fact that the press, have never realized that Albert had a lengthy relationship whith this lady, that she was living in his apartment, I mean those photos alone would have surface long time ago, she has to have told somone a friend, one of her ex-husband/lovers, her family c'mon somebody. This situation stinks so bad that only time will tell, besides she is ugly, the kid is cute but the mother is just ugly, I can see Al having an affair with her but a "lengthy relationship" somehow is it hard to sallow. IMO what do you think?
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  #80  
Old 05-10-2005, 03:58 PM
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I thought of the same thing, too. I have pictures of me carrying an ex-boyfriend's niece throughout the stages of this girl's early childhood. She could easily look like my own - we have the same skin tone, eye color, and wavy hair.

But, time will tell. The only ugly coming out of this situation is the fact that the little boy is thrusted into this without having a say at all.
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