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  #201  
Old 01-16-2008, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandy View Post
First, it will take more than few members' dissatisfaction at the turn of events or a boisterous discussion to permanently close a thread.

Second, Charlene may not be a member of the Monaco family, however, as Albert's girlfriend, she deserves a thread on this forum, just as other princes and princesses have threads for their girlfriends and boyfriends respectively in other forums.

Third, I can respect "your" opinion without necessarily agreeing with it nor wanting to hear it over and over again.

Fourth, since this thread is dedicated to Charlene's current events, there should be no reason to rehash Charlene's past history here.

Fifth, for future reference, as per our Community Rules, if you have any suggestions or encounter any problems in this thread, you should send a PM
to a member of the moderating team rather than discuss them on the boards.
Mandy,

I just thought I would offer up a suggestion, as it doesn't seem that there is anyway of pleasing anyone.

Also Mandy, I'm not positive it was you or another moderator, but there was some going back and forth not so long ago, and some of us that held or hold negative opinions of Charlene, being constantly badgered as to having to substantiate why we held our negative opinions - that they were unfair (says who?, our opinions are our opinions, too bad if someone thinks they are unfair? They are our opinions nothing is going to change that). I was told that I should be patient and help out those that did not care to do their own research, which led to the constant rehash (which I was the one complaining about in the first place) of the same reasons why many have an unfavorable opinion. It was the moderators that suggested us to help out the new people on the board? Then when we did this, we got pounded for bashing and rehashing? Because I guess our opinions were thought unfair because we brought up past history and therefore not valid? Although I would say people tried to show the consistancy people were still accused of bashing? Also, I believe the words young and old were used by I believe you Mandy, I am not positive? I didn't know what that meant I assumed you or the moderator meant old and new and tried to correct it, in fact I got attacked for the remark from the poster, the poster attributed the remark to me not the moderator? No one stepped in to take responsibility for their own remark? Some people seem to just want to attack other posters for any reason without even reading the posts? And it seems to be allowed? I see the same posters picking fights with different people which seems fine as long as they constantly praise the moderator. I'm sure this doesn't effect any favoritism for certain posters? whether or not it does it certainly shows the appearance of it! Anyway to go back that was one reason for the rehashing? I believe it doesn't make a difference to some posters at what time in a person's history they chose to show bad character? Bad character is bad character, whether it was last week or last year? If one's husband cheats on them, is it ok because it was a year ago and not last week? I think this girls conduct bothers some people whether it was last week or last year? Everyone has a different opinion here about character? I don't doubt you have a tough job here, and it might seem harsh to constantly disparage this woman, but many feel she has invited it herself. She is not nine years old, I'm not sure why people seem to want to protect her as if she is a child? Princess Grace was 26? I don't think she would have been allowed the same mistakes? I was just passing by on the thread when I saw the same old thing going on? I offer up my opinion above because this seems to be the root of the problem on these threads, there seems no way of alleviating it? Also I might add, there are a few here who might have different experience or knowledge re Charlene that is not always published? There are many posters from different backgrounds and personal experience here, who is to say why people hold their opinions or is privy to info that others are not and different than those for people who want to dispute others opinions? It is obvious Albert has no problem with taking claim to a realtionship with Charlene, although he doesn't care to put a title to it as yet? But it is clear he doesn't have enough problem with Charlene to send her home and seems happy enough to have her in Monaco, by his side, and in public, whatever the reasons. That is evident! How happy they make each other is obviously only a question they each can answer for themselves? As long as Charlene is in his company, I imagine he has no problem with her at the present moment. But he has gotten himself into some embarrassing situations in the past, and I believe some of the comments are meant to shout him down from a cliff he has jumped off twice before! That might sound funny and ridiculous, but I think there is some truth in this? Good luck to them both! And again I don't envy your position here moderating this thread, I was just trying to offer up a solution instead of a resemblance of a bad daytime talk show! Best of Luck, Mandy!
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  #202  
Old 01-17-2008, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
Honestly, I can't disagree or agree fully one way or the other, because I am not sure who made up the phrase for Charlene to be "official companion", the media or the Princely court? I lean towards the media coining the phrase. We all remember how many consorts, both male and female, have been prostituted by the media. How many times did the media call The Duke of Edinburgh a "kept man"? Closer to home for CW/PA, poor Stefano Casiraghi was called "Carolino". But maybe Albert does something to encourage, or not enough to discourage, the use of the phrase, I have no idea. On principal, I agree with BB that it would be terrible to be called "official companion". But if it's only the tabloids that use the phrase, and not credible press, and certainly not Palace communiques, I should hope this is not how Albert sees Charlene, anymore than it's likely Caroline ever called her husband Carolino.
And to add to the aforementioned rehashing I'm going to rehash for the umpteenth time the origins of "official companion". People have explained the term before me and IIRC, I have done so at least once as well on this forum.

A reporter contacted the palace and asked how he/she should refer to Charlene. He was told she was a companion. Seeing that this "name" for her came from the palace, note: an official source, someone coined the term official companion.
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  #203  
Old 01-17-2008, 11:03 AM
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Here's this week's cover of the German magazine "Bunte"
with a nice pic of Charlene on it, the title says "Charlene
- The new Princess of Monaco" and contains the story
of Albert and Charlene's relationship:

Bunte 17.01.2008
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  #204  
Old 01-17-2008, 11:15 AM
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It's so hilarious to me how much controversy Charlene ignites on the forums and everywhere. I mean, what is the point of following the current events of someone one dislikes so terribly much? It's like, if you don't like her, ignore her. I will never understand it, I guess. I guess I am just too stupid or uneducated such things.
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  #205  
Old 01-17-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
It's so hilarious to me how much controversy Charlene ignites on the forums and everywhere. I mean, what is the point of following the current events of someone one dislikes so terribly much? It's like, if you don't like her, ignore her. I will never understand it, I guess. I guess I am just too stupid or uneducated such things.
The point of it is, that I can't follow the current events of prince Albert without having the current events of Charlene shoved in my face. I don't want to follow her current events, but I can't escape them. Ignoring doesn't work because the only way I can do that is by avoiding anything to do with Monaco, the Monegasque royal family and basically everything else that happens in the world. I couldn't even watch the rugby world cup, the French soccer league or the opening of the Turin Olympics without seeing her! I can't read anything about Sarkozy because his current relationship is being compared to something fitting for Monaco! I can't go past the magazine stands in the shop because she's perpetually on the front page of some magazine or other! (I'm not exaggerating here. It's true. ) The only way I might avoid her is by locking myself up in the cellar without any means of communication and die there. She's unavoidable. You're living in the States, it might be different for you, but here in Europe it's very, very hard to avoid her.
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  #206  
Old 01-17-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghislaine View Post
The point of it is, that I can't follow the current events of prince Albert without having the current events of Charlene shoved in my face. I don't want to follow her current events, but I can't escape them. Ignoring doesn't work because the only way I can do that is by avoiding anything to do with Monaco, the Monegasque royal family and basically everything else that happens in the world. I couldn't even watch the rugby world cup, the French soccer league or the opening of the Turin Olympics without seeing her! I can't read anything about Sarkozy because his current relationship is being compared to something fitting for Monaco! I can't go past the magazine stands in the shop because she's perpetually on the front page of some magazine or other! (I'm not exaggerating here. It's true. ) The only way I might avoid her is by locking myself up in the cellar without any means of communication and die there. She's unavoidable. You're living in the States, it might be different for you, but here in Europe it's very, very hard to avoid her.
From what I've heard you are very correct. If you want to know anything about Monaco you best accept the fact Charlene will be in the picture in some form or another and people have to get use to it until Albert decides he's had enough of her and sends her back to SA which I don't see happening at least anytime soon. Plus we all need to be realist on this Charlene isn't the type to pack and run because she isn't getting her way or he's seeing another woman. That's a reason to try harder.
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  #207  
Old 01-17-2008, 01:13 PM
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Very true comments about Monaco and Charlene. It is hard because she's so entangled in his affairs (no pun intended).

However, I have noticed in the Philly area that some Paris Match covers unless it's something positive about Albert tend to have different covers than the ones posted here or they simply don't carry that particular one. So Charlene doesn't get face time in Philly.The magazines covers and articles posted from these magazines turn up here when I tune in here to see what's going on on my favorite soap opera.
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  #208  
Old 01-17-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghislaine View Post
The point of it is, that I can't follow the current events of prince Albert without having the current events of Charlene shoved in my face. I don't want to follow her current events, but I can't escape them. Ignoring doesn't work because the only way I can do that is by avoiding anything to do with Monaco, the Monegasque royal family and basically everything else that happens in the world. I couldn't even watch the rugby world cup, the French soccer league or the opening of the Turin Olympics without seeing her! I can't read anything about Sarkozy because his current relationship is being compared to something fitting for Monaco! I can't go past the magazine stands in the shop because she's perpetually on the front page of some magazine or other! (I'm not exaggerating here. It's true. ) The only way I might avoid her is by locking myself up in the cellar without any means of communication and die there. She's unavoidable. You're living in the States, it might be different for you, but here in Europe it's very, very hard to avoid her.
Yeah, you're right, in the US it could not be more different. Boy, mention Charlene Wittstock news to someone in Los Angeles and you might as well be saying something in Elfish. Gosh, she and Albert really get press in Philadelphia?! I used to live there, for about four years, and I never met anyone who knew a damn thing about the Grimaldis except yes, the Kelly link and that the Kellys were from Philly, but still, I never met anyone who cared or knew more about it. I used to pass the statue of Jack Kelly every day, because I would go running along the river, and, of course, knew exactly who he was, but never met anyone there who cared about it.
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  #209  
Old 01-17-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
Yeah, you're right, in the US it could not be more different. Boy, mention Charlene Wittstock news to someone in Los Angeles and you might as well be saying something in Elfish. Gosh, she and Albert really get press in Philadelphia?! I used to live there, for about four years, and I never met anyone who knew a damn thing about the Grimaldis except yes, the Kelly link and that the Kellys were from Philly, but still, I never met anyone who cared or knew more about it. I used to pass the statue of Jack Kelly every day, because I would go running along the river, and, of course, knew exactly who he was, but never met anyone there who cared about it.
Read my post above where I say that the covers of Paris Match get changed. Also it must be a generation thing because one of the most requested items at the Philadelphia Museum of Art still is Grace's wedding dress. It's popularity hasn't seemed to have died. So those that don't know the Kelly name other than the drive being named for them are probably a lot younger. Also you are rather brave to have jogged along boat house row area I never considered that a safe place even in broad day light. JMO
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  #210  
Old 01-17-2008, 04:09 PM
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^ Not really so brave. It's a crowded place on weekends and the rowers get out there pretty earlier as I recall. I actually always enjoyed it, never had any sense of fear at all. I felt relaxed and happy there. hmmm........ weird.
Maybe it has changed. It was still the 90s when I was there so who knows....
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  #211  
Old 01-17-2008, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
^ Not really so brave. It's a crowded place on weekends and the rowers get out there pretty earlier as I recall. I actually always enjoyed it, never had any sense of fear at all. I felt relaxed and happy there. hmmm........ weird.
Maybe it has changed. It was still the 90s when I was there so who knows....
If you were jogging only on weekends, yes there are tons of people around but in the early mornings and after work it's not well populated. Anyway we are probably giving people more than they ever wanted to know about Philly except that Kels statue is located near boat house row near the Phil. Museum of Art for those who are going to visit Phil.

I did find it strange that the covers of Paris Match were different - especially the fact that the Maldives photos were never in the Philly version .
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  #212  
Old 01-17-2008, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hibou View Post
If you were jogging only on weekends, yes there are tons of people around but in the early mornings and after work it's not well populated. Anyway we are probably giving people more than they ever wanted to know about Philly except that Kels statue is located near boat house row near the Phil. Museum of Art for those who are going to visit Phil.

I did find it strange that the covers of Paris Match were different - especially the fact that the Maldives photos were never in the Philly version .
They're worried about being sued and she isn't American like Princess Grace.
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  #213  
Old 01-17-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsla View Post
Mandy,

I just thought I would offer up a suggestion, as it doesn't seem that there is anyway of pleasing anyone.

Also Mandy, I'm not positive it was you or another moderator, but there was some going back and forth not so long ago, and some of us that held or hold negative opinions of Charlene, being constantly badgered as to having to substantiate why we held our negative opinions - that they were unfair (says who?, our opinions are our opinions, too bad if someone thinks they are unfair? They are our opinions nothing is going to change that). I was told that I should be patient and help out those that did not care to do their own research, which led to the constant rehash (which I was the one complaining about in the first place) of the same reasons why many have an unfavorable opinion. It was the moderators that suggested us to help out the new people on the board? Then when we did this, we got pounded for bashing and rehashing?
Yep, that would have been me. And by "help out those that did not care to do their own research" I meant that rather than telling them to go away because they weren't worthy to join the conversation, which is what was going on at the time, it would be a lot more productive to point them at resources where they could get up to speed. Which isn't the same as having to rehash the history of Albert and Charlene's relationship every time someone asks. Of course, if a person is going to be of the opinion that newcomers to the conversation "did not care to do their own research" rather than that they were simply new to the topic and trying to learn about what was going on, I can see why "go away and stop boring us" might be a tempting response. However, I think it might be more productive to give newcomers the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:
I see the same posters picking fights with different people which seems fine as long as they constantly praise the moderator. I'm sure this doesn't effect any favoritism for certain posters?
Please forward some examples of this to the admins.
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  #214  
Old 01-17-2008, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Yep, that would have been me. And by "help out those that did not care to do their own research" I meant that rather than telling them to go away because they weren't worthy to join the conversation, which is what was going on at the time, it would be a lot more productive to point them at resources where they could get up to speed. Which isn't the same as having to rehash the history of Albert and Charlene's relationship every time someone asks. Of course, if a person is going to be of the opinion that newcomers to the conversation "did not care to do their own research" rather than that they were simply new to the topic and trying to learn about what was going on, I can see why "go away and stop boring us" might be a tempting response. However, I think it might be more productive to give newcomers the benefit of the doubt.



Please forward some examples of this to the admins.
Elspeth, I had some conversations with you, but you are not the moderator I was talking about. But I do take issue with you putting words in my mouth, never in my post did I tell someone to "go away they weren't worthy" never was that my intention, nor is that the intention that I saw with other posters. But this is a good example of the problem of the threads. I see no reason why we should have to substantiate our opinion for anyone! It is our opinion, and it was other posters replying to my post, that seemed to want to pick a fight, it is the fact we are trying to defend our opinion and by doing so bashing. I don't think many here attacked a post that said "I like Charlene" I did not continue to ask them to substantiate their opinion, only after we were told that we much substantiate ours? And we always were told they didn't have to? I also do not see that it is my responsibility to search and offer up links, although others have in the past like MyAdia who got attacked for doing it! - Exactly what you are asking for! Recently someone asked if someone could tell him/her How Albert became this woman in his life? - Where they met and why she was thought of differently than any other woman of Albert's, was the jest. I did as you asked, I thought I did a pretty good job. I also told then they should try to find the link and tried to tell them where they might look and that they should make up their own mind after reading the interview for himself? I also asked for other people to jump in? Anyone who wanted to counter an opinion was certainly welcomed including the moderators? I also mentioned that I did not see anyone else jumping in to help, so I thought the poster seemed sincere and I jumped in? Naturally I got attacked from the moderaters for doing just what was asked. What the moderater seemed to not like (once again) was that I injected my own opinion that was unfavorable, so it was not liked. This girls past conduct is what I don't like, how can one substantiate one's opinion without bringing it up? It's kind of a Catch 22? I'm sorry that I do not care for the girl (past and present) and that bothers everyone with a differing opinion, but it seems to be the opinion of a large part of the concensus, whether you want to admit it or not? Magazines are in the business of selling magazines as that seem to be a popular response to rebut this? So I guess that means there is a popular opinion of Paris Hilton, and Britney or anyone else you see on a cover of a magazine! I cannot speak why others do not care for Charlene, I can only express my own (or rather it would seem I cannot!). It seems to me we are the ones being told to go away we are not worthy. And it seems most of us have! But this stll remains an even bigger shark pit, and I am sorry that I keep taking the bait! I offered up the simple solution of shutting down the thread since there seems to only be one hand clapping over here! I should have known as many of us feel that just seeing our names posted here would seem to bring attack. My simple solution is to stay off the Charlene threads completely, as I think that my well voiced and truthful opinion has been drawn into the kind of warfare that made me offer up the suggestion of closing the thread down in the first place! Another reply to my post is not neccessary unless you are doing it for the benefit of someone other than myself, and you feel a need to respond. This is really becoming more and more juvenile. And Elspeth I had always credited you with being the one voice of reason on this thread! Really is there a reason this girl worth all of this? It really makes you wonder why these threads bring this on, I tried to offer up reasons of what I thought might incite it! My apologies for that!
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  #215  
Old 01-18-2008, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by hibou View Post
If you were jogging only on weekends, yes there are tons of people around but in the early mornings and after work it's not well populated. Anyway we are probably giving people more than they ever wanted to know about Philly except that Kels statue is located near boat house row near the Phil. Museum of Art for those who are going to visit Phil.

I did find it strange that the covers of Paris Match were different - especially the fact that the Maldives photos were never in the Philly version .
Yep, it's too much info. about Philly already for CW thread. But yeah, I meant weekends, because That's the only time I really could go out there, as I was working during the week, in a very hectic job. I type about a gazillion words a minute, my fingers being practically invisible so you could say sometimes I am typing way faster than my thoughts can keep up.

************

Well, sandsla, Ghislaine, and others like-minded, I assure you that in the future if I wish to take issue with a criticism about CW, I will try to be more fastidious. I will do it because, quite honestly, I think all of you are fascinating people and I enjoy reading your thoughts more than you can possibly know.
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  #216  
Old 01-18-2008, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sandsla View Post
Elspeth, I had some conversations with you, but you are not the moderator I was talking about. But I do take issue with you putting words in my mouth, never in my post did I tell someone to "go away they weren't worthy" never was that my intention,
You did, however, tell someone back in the summer (in a post that was deleted) "It seems clear by your posts that you are not informed, judging by your current posts, you still do not care to research or inform yourself or you would not be posting the SAME questions and making the statements that have been told, answered & debated ad nauseam by people who have been paying attention for what seems to be the duration of the relationship that has been played out in public, at least 19 months now. Really, It's like someone who sits down at the end of a movie, and wants to know what the story is? or worse, try to tell you what happened when they weren't even present for it? That is what is tiresome? I'm sorry but this party did not start just when you arrived! It is clear you are not up to speed (IMO) & many are just wasting our time in responding (IMO)."

I stand by my comment that a shortened version of that is "go away, you aren't worth talking to." I didn't address your comment about substantiating a negative opinion; however, I'll just say that I think it's easier to get a meaningful conversation going if people will give reasons for why they think the way they do. I was the moderator who took issue with the above comment of yours at the time because I'm concerned about an atmosphere where posters are making other posters feel unwelcome by telling them that they aren't sufficiently knowledgeable to be worth talking to. We get that a fair bit in the British forum too, in one guise or another, and I don't like it any better over there.

And I really would appreciate it if you'd forward those examples of biased moderation to the admins, because it's something we'll want to take a look at.
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  #217  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:43 AM
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It's time to close this thread. Thanks to everyone who posted. Join us here in part 10.
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